Head Gasket or Rings? UPDATED

**Ashy** · 06-03-2011, 16:58

Right chaps, old whitey has had a pretty bad smoke problem... I haven't really driven it as it had no MOT etc when I picked it up. I took it out for its first drive last week and put the smoke down to a bad turbo... I changed the turbo for a known good one and took it for a run today. Anyway its still well smokey, seems worse if anything.

So I've done a compression test:

WP End - 135psi - 80psi - 100psi - 90psi - Gearbox End

Anyway, the smoke looks very white, as if its water.... But I'm not sure why its low on 3 cylinders... I know the engines been stood for a long time so could the rings be seize into the pistons... Seen this before on engines that have been left standing for years...

Whatcha think chap, just do a H.G. and see what happens, or go for a rebuild?

I chucked some old oil down the pot on the gearbox end and re-did the test but it regitered 80psi...

weird car.

**Ashy** · 06-03-2011, 17:09

heres a vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPHcv...er_profilepage

HERE

**Brigsy** · 06-03-2011, 17:17

Comp is low on all cylinders really imo..if its not drinking coolant/overheating id say rings..

**Purple_rob** · 06-03-2011, 18:47

Defo looks like water. A couple of things spring to mind to check.

Is it loosing water?.
Does it pump the water jacket up straight away from cold.

Its defo going to be head of and inspection. I had the same symtoms from a cracked liner from over heating.

Rob

**James5** · 06-03-2011, 19:08

Niall, Those comp results are

I would say time for a strip down well new rings and new liners at least, also get the head tested could be a cracked head?, smoke is very white is it loosing coolant? any mayo mix in the oil?

**R5TURBORON** · 06-03-2011, 20:19

Did you do the comp test with the trottle wide open. If you didnt can give weird readings

**Ashy** · 06-03-2011, 20:50

Originally Posted by R5TURBORON

Did you do the comp test with the trottle wide open. If you didnt can give weird readings

Give me some credit mate

I don't know if its losing coolant, I dont really want to take it for a drive as it would be like a red arrows exhibition!

Oil looks nice and clean... But like I say I haven't driven too far. when I have driven it the water temp hasn't gone over 1/2.

**R5TURBORON** · 06-03-2011, 20:52

sorry didnt mean anything by it just had a mate that did his with throttle shut

**Andy M** · 06-03-2011, 21:06

Is the car a running C1J? Got to ask these days

Pressure test the coolant system as a starting point.

Whip the plugs out too and crank the engine, see if it spits any coolant.

**SP33DY** · 06-03-2011, 22:02

Sounds like a nail mate, I'll bung you £250 for it. Think of how pleased the wife will be when the number of fives making her lovely house look untidy is reduced from 3 down to 2

**Ashy** · 06-03-2011, 22:10

Originally Posted by Andy M

Is the car a running C1J? Got to ask these days

Pressure test the coolant system as a starting point.

Whip the plugs out too and crank the engine, see if it spits any coolant.

I'll do a pressure test when I find my cap, good idea

Yes this one is a C1J... For now.

Steve, good try, might swap it for your Clio if you ask nicely

**V Man** · 07-03-2011, 15:24

Originally Posted by Andy M

Is the car a running C1J? Got to ask these days

Whip the plugs out too and crank the engine, see if it spits any coolant.

Yeah George, whip the plugs out and stick your eye near the plug hole while I turn the engine over and see if water comes out

**Ashy** · 07-03-2011, 21:56

Originally Posted by V Man

Yeah George, whip the plugs out and stick your eye near the plug hole while I turn the engine over and see if water comes out

No one would be that daft George - Would they?

**Ashy** · 11-03-2011, 20:15

Right guys need help again...

So I've whipped the head off and I'm still unsure as to whats wrong (although ive got a couple of theory's)

So with the head off the looking into the Pot that was giving the hiest compresion reading you can see honing marks on the liner. This makes me think this pot was recently relaced as theres no honing marks on the other 3. This would lead me to think the rings were gone on the other 3 hence the smoke and low comp reading.

However, on the other hand i we assume that one liner was replaced recently I have concerns over whether the head gasket was sealing against the block as it doesnt look like it has been cleaned properly and is badly corroded see pic....

Whats your thoughts?

Also thinking of putting some oil in each pot and seeing if it leaks overnight... Would this be a good measure of how worn the rings were?

Any ideas welcome.

Cheers Ashy.

**Matt Cole** · 11-03-2011, 20:45

Petrol marrow in the pots and see if it leaks down.

**Ashy** · 11-03-2011, 20:52

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Petrol marrow in the pots and see if it leaks down.

Ok cool, got some somewhere, i'll give i a shot!

See what I mean about the corrosion? the old head gasket came off in 1 pice, looked brand new.... The residue and corrosion on the liners and block must of been there before the new gasket was fitted...

I'm really not sure its the rings... The smoke is just so white as if its water vapuor.... theres minimal crank case pressure and the catch tank is bone dry....

**TNT ANDY** · 11-03-2011, 21:15

Replace all rings - not expensive and easy to fit at this stage

Skim head + liners

Fit thick head gasket (sure these exist) to bring CR down again.

All relatively cheap.

**raj** · 11-03-2011, 21:16

have you checked the head for flatness? as that corrosion looks terrible

Do you have a flat pane of glass lying around?

oil the cyl heads mating face and then place the glass on top, give it a gentle press. if its totally flat obviously the oil will make contact to all of the glass

if banana'd there will be no contact in a certain area.

**Ashy** · 11-03-2011, 21:30

Originally Posted by TNT ANDY

Replace all rings - not expensive and easy to fit at this stage

Skim head + liners

Fit thick head gasket (sure these exist) to bring CR down again.

All relatively cheap.

I've got plenty of spare heads, pistons, liners and blocks for that matter so building a new lump up wouldn't be an issue and tbh i'm not trying to do it on the cheap the truth is I don't want to waste time rebuilding it if its not necessary.

Originally Posted by raj

have you checked the head for flatness? as that corrosion looks terrible

Do you have a flat pane of glass lying around?

oil the cyl heads mating face and then place the glass on top, give it a gentle press. if its totally flat obviously the oil will make contact to all of the glass

if banana'd there will be no contact in a certain area.

Thanks for the tip, I'll just take a few heads to work and clock them on a machine to make sure they are perfectly flat before fitting

**Ashy** · 11-03-2011, 22:06

done the petrol test, within 10 mins pot 2 was empty! Other 3 are unchanged.

Looks like i need a set of rings too...

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 11-03-2011, 22:15

The best thing to have done was poor a very small amount of oil down the plug hole in to the bores after the first comp test and then re test, if you comp raises its bore or ring related and not head or gasket.. sorry i didnt notice this earlier

..

Wups...
And i just read the last line.... ill get my coat and head back to the civic forums...

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 11-03-2011, 22:20

while its apart check the valve seats with petrol test just make sure these aint fooling any readings..

**Ashy** · 11-03-2011, 22:33

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

The best thing to have done was poor a very small amount of oil down the plug hole in to the bores after the first comp test and then re test....

Thing is i did do this on the cylinder nearest the box and the compression reading was slightly lower

**Scoff** · 11-03-2011, 23:04

so its hone, rings, lap valves, clean and back together then ! mornings work

I'd be checking those liner tops for pitting. Maybe the block was sat outside without a head for a while.

**Ashy** · 11-03-2011, 23:14

Originally Posted by Scoff

so its hone, rings, lap valves, clean and back together then ! mornings work

I'd be checking those liner tops for pitting. Maybe the block was sat outside without a head for a while.

Aye, should have everything i need to re-buid it over the weekend... I just really didn't want to have to remove the sump... Cant be bothered with the sealant, such a crap design.

**Sparkie** · 11-03-2011, 23:18

Originally Posted by Scoff

so its hone, rings, lap valves, clean and back together then ! mornings work

I'd be checking those liner tops for pitting. Maybe the block was sat outside without a head for a while.

chemical metal and some sandpaper = flat liner tops.

he did say cheap....

**James5** · 12-03-2011, 09:46

Originally Posted by Ashy

Aye, should have everything i need to re-buid it over the weekend... I just really didn't want to have to remove the sump... Cant be bothered with the sealant, such a crap design.

Niall you can use a cork sump gasket

Mike can sort you out with one

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