DG to build another vag powered 5

[Duncan Grier]

Well as you may have noticed in my reply to Fran’s project thread I am going to be building another vag powered Renault 5 for my own sins, lucky for Scoff he does not have to do the fabrication work as will be doing the complete build this time round

Few changes over the original build and will be using the vag 2.0 turbo Tsi engine and a variant of the 6 speed box (a nice short square one) was going to use the Tsi engine which is better but the change to change over the belt means it is 3 inch wider and don’t think the 5 will let me get away with it.

Mounting will be the main change but also this is a budget build so no fancy 4 pot breaks etc

At the moment plan is to
Convert to Williams suspension bits (wider)
Mod body to accept the above changes
Custom 3” full exhaust
Oe management
Diff
Cage – with extra work to join to suspension turrets

Will prob start with about 325bhp and see how it goes from there but map out a lot of the low down torque to assist traction

So on the look out for a bargain base car for this and will get to work in the new year

Will still do another vx220 with tsi conversion but funds don’t allow for a couple of years so figured go with a cheap, fun project that should still go well – maybe have a goal of 8 min lap of the ring my current quickest is only 8:03 though in the vx lol

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Chop chop & then sell it to me... cheaply.

[Trevhib]

Dunc are you with the VXR track day lot? A mate of mine has got involved recently and has been on a number of outings with the club of late. I wonder if you know of each other.

Chris Wright, genuine easy going bloke - Red VXR, black track wheels. Been on the France trip a few weeks ago (where the gendarme made everyone who had velcro number plates rivet them on)!

[Mart]

Nice one mate. Looking forward to the progress pic's/reports

Should've bought Whitey after all...

Edit: No, I never should've sold it after all...

[c7borg]

Could you do a trial run in the back of mine, just to check you have 325hp?

[Duncan Grier]

Yes heavily involved in the VX220 club and know most of them through the boards or meets / events and the other half working on their cars

Yes can be fun in France but I was always fine even after loosing my number plate due to grounding out and loosing it. Almost as bad as going Wales lol

Got one in the garage atm for full rebuild / garrett conversion but due to new arrival of baby have halted all other work for a few months which should be enough to build the 5 and finish this one off

They are a good bunch and made some really good friends there - kind of like this site

It's fair to say there is not much I don't know about the vx now but woking on a 5 is going to a nice change as its even easier if I can remember lol. And nice to do something a bit different as once you have worked on them so much you get a bit.........well bored with it

DG

[Duncan Grier]

Nice one mate. Looking forward to the progress pic's/reports

Should've bought Whitey after all...

Edit: No, I never should've sold it after all...

Mart I was tempted but would not have wanted to chop that one up and the barge is a beter everyday car for my needs now

And the key of this time round is cheap - expect to pay about what we were taking for the conversion

C7borg - not sure what you mean? Maybe need more coffee lol

DG

[philr5t]

just out of interest mate what tsi engine is it that produces the 325bhp

[James5]

just out of interest mate what tsi engine is it that produces the 325bhp

Doesn't the seat leon use a 2.0 TSI engine so does the passat, scirocco

I know you have the smaller 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines but I assume they will be a bit small for the Grier

[c7borg]

C7borg - not sure what you mean? Maybe need more coffee lol

DG

Do the conversion in the boot of my r5, test it's kicking the full 325hp and then feel free to put it in your car, then I'll put my engine back.. I just want to see what it feels like - all for free of course

Oh and I'd make you a cup of coffee

In all seriousness I can't wait to see it!

[Mart]

A remap + better flowing exhaust would equate to an easy 300hp+ from the 2L TSI.

[Duncan Grier]

just out of interest mate what tsi engine is it that produces the 325bhp

They dont from the factory but the later tsi lump from the audi range has a different head and spec of turbo over the other direct fuel injection (fsi, tfsi, tsi) lumps which most of is the same and only spec of turbo and head revisions play in the last bit of extra power available in for of different specs of k04 and ihi turbos

The one I have put aside for the vx with software will produce 375bhp and with 3071 and uprated fuel pump (piston type) takes it to 425 without opening, very low lag due to very high compression and even the pump is only needed to retain torque low down.

Have the codes and various other info in the garage but have a good friend who does nothing but vag day in / out so tend to just ask him

The whole tsi / Tfsi thing is a lot of the time same engine but different car - gold gti vs sline a4 etc

DG

[Duncan Grier]

A remap + better flowing exhaust would equate to an easy 300hp+ from the 2L TSI.

Or the quick answer

[Duncan Grier]

Do the conversion in the boot of my r5, test it's kicking the full 325hp and then feel free to put it in your car, then I'll put my engine back.. I just want to see what it feels like - all for free of course

Oh and I'd make you a cup of coffee

Ok lol, makes sense now

get someone to take oyu out in a vx220 turbo with 300bhp will give you the same effect and easier to do straight line performance that is

DG

[Duncan Grier]

Doesn't the seat leon use a 2.0 TSI engine so does the passat, scirocco

I know you have the smaller 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines but I assume they will be a bit small for the Grier

Most things feel....a bit normal after 3.4 to 60 and 8.6 secs to a ton for a road car

the 1.4 lump was tempting as it will produce 220bhp and 7 speed dsg box for some fun but dont want to go all Al with one of those flappy boxes and missing pedal

Yes the leon uses that engine

Should be a fun build and nice product at the end - Penfol you can have 1st refusal on sale but let me build it 1st

[Mart]

Or the quick answer

That's all Seat pretty much done to the top end Cupra R's.

[Woznaldo]

They never stray far from the nest!... Sounds like another interesting project DG, can't wait to see some progress pics.

[Duncan Grier]

Ok well big thanks to Flan, got the william bits ready to collect soon :-)

So now need a car, prefer good body work but dont care about other bits. Needs to be cheap though and can collect

Should have an engine soon so would be nice to get the engine and box mounted over xmas but obviously car required

[Mart]

Campus?

Most of the gubbins from a GTT would be of no use/binned anyway...

[Duncan Grier]

True Mart and another option but still wanted to keep most of the oe turboness if possible and saves hunting down all the silly little things I would want - Picture oe arches widened to house the extended track

Although as you say 90% will not be used

See how the turbo hunt goes and it no joy will explore this - Big steve found an interesting one

Itching to get it started over xmas

DG

[Hi 5]

good look with it pal.i started to do a 1.8 20v about 2 months ago but am looking for 600bhp all steel the cost if out off this world but will be worth it

[Duncan Grier]

That much power I would not use the 1.8 but go with the 2lt newer turbo

Unless its pure drag machine it will never work fwd my old one could struggle with 270 and diff fitted

DG

[Lewis]

Picture oe arches widened to house the extended track

DG[/QUOTE]

Prima's hill climb car already has something similar.

I'd be after something similar to this.

[Hi 5]

That much power I would not use the 1.8 but go with the 2lt newer turbo

Unless its pure drag machine it will never work fwd my old one could struggle with 270 and diff fitted

DG

sorry to say but the 1.8 is better than the 2.0 dont under stand why the other you had struggled in what way

[Duncan Grier]

sorry to say but the 1.8 is better than the 2.0 dont under stand why the other you had struggled in what way

Based on what data? Certainly from a road / power delivery point of view the direct fuel injection / high compression over a 3rd inlet valve for swirl effect does not compare! Run a garrett 3076 on both and its clear. The direct fuel inj reaches a point for big power and is a restriction bit affraid the newer 2.0 is still better and a lot cheaper to extract big numbers. But I am only basing it on gps stats and the same rr so could be wrong.

Guess thats why I am not using the cheaper older vag lump.

Tsi can do 375 with std turbo no 1.8 gets close

What do I know :-) just love crazy projects whoever does them

[Duncan Grier]

Struggled with 270bhp and 893kg due to fwd a very short driveshaft on one side and lots of low down torque which is fine for a heavy golf but as I found with the astra vxr lump fitted to my vx220 in a light car is a waste and needs mapping out correctly. New oe maagemnt a lot better on the later engines also

[Hi 5]

Struggled with 270bhp and 893kg due to fwd a very short driveshaft on one side and lots of low down torque which is fine for a heavy golf but as I found with the astra vxr lump fitted to my vx220 in a light car is a waste and needs mapping out correctly. New oe maagemnt a lot better on the later engines also

i see where your coming from yes 375bhp no problem on 2.0 but a lot of power u need to remove the injectors etc or run 2 sets with the never engine because i want loads of bhp the 1.8 thats now a 1.9 seems to be the better option for me on stand alone the c1j in the white 1 is running 270bhp with no nos but the large turbo makes it nice to drive on the road

[Duncan Grier]

You are correct at a point the direct fuel injection becomes a restriction. The problem I had with the 1.8 20vt was the instant power low down which a c1j with the same power will not have this issue, the same as having a massive turbo on the vag lump you will loose a lot of the low down torque and prob make driving a bit easier

I have always wanted a wide spread of power for my uses having a small large power band is only good for drag strip imo not what I have wanted to achieve

For certain the 1.8 engine can extract big power but does need some internal work and money spent on custom parts

Also if you plan to retain the stand alone management it will def be easier to use the older engine setup

I was tempted to use the 1.8TSI n/a engine bore to 2ltr and destroke it for a nice 300bhp rev monster but you know a R5 turbo needs a turbo engine

Looks like there are a few hybrid builds going on and be really interesting to compare at some point - got the race logic box to capture stats

DG

[Big Steve - Raider]

got the race logic box to capture stats

Loooookout!

[c7borg]

Struggled with 270bhp and 893kg due to fwd a very short driveshaft on one side

Duncan.. I think I'm suffering from this but I've only got 170ish through the rear wheels I would have thought with the weight over the rear wheels I'd have considerably more grip...
how do you get rid of wheel spin on the vrx? isn't that a simular.. and how will you get rid of it..with the tsi engine?
I was on the way to work this morning in and the tyres lit up at mid to high rpm in second, I know I can let off the accelarator but ultimatley I want to use the power on the tarmac.. I'm using toyo proxies maybe it's just to cold?

[Duncan Grier]

The VXR engine / 6 speed box conversion into the vx220 turbo is mid engined rwd and the chassis is very good so I never found traction an issue (in the dry on cut clicks) wet was a handfull and when it goes you have to be really quick and not over correct or it gets messy

I am building a fwd vag 5 not rwd so extra weight over the front but rear will be the same other than running the williams rear beam

diff makes a massive difference on a fwd car with power but the new engine / manafgement allows me to remove some of the low down torque and reatin a very smooth almost s/c power delivery so no bit power spikes - you can of course obtain this on aftermarket systems and certainly scoff's very well place to offer this

I tend to run R888's or R1R's on the vx and found the T1r's...well crap lol

Certainly this time of year the tyres are not designed to work at these temps and will def not help

DG

[J$£5GTT]

Loooookout!

......here we go....grier..grier..his pants are gna be on fier!!!!...

[c7borg]

Thanks for that.. I think tyres are my first step, I really want the r888 SG's as I'll be mainly using it for hill climbing < 1 mile. I rarely do more than 50 miles a week so they should be okay on the road I just wonder if I did a motorway journey they would heat up and lose a few mm tread.. or maybe they're not quite that soft ?

[Duncan Grier]

I always ran GG as the SG disapear but for hill climbing suspect better suited

Easy J know you are glad I am back in the mix with a silly build again but control yourself man

[Mart]

and found the T1r's...well crap lol

Pah, they're a great tyre Not so great when you slick them, and then have to drive home from the 'Ring in the pouring rain

[J$£5GTT]

Thanks for that.. I think tyres are my first step, I really want the r888 SG's as I'll be mainly using it for hill climbing < 1 mile. I rarely do more than 50 miles a week so they should be okay on the road I just wonder if I did a motorway journey they would heat up and lose a few mm tread.. or maybe they're not quite that soft ?

i think you would have to drive a lot of miles before you loose a few mm tread on motorway runs,there be fine for the use you are saying.

[Duncan Grier]

They were fine on the 5 from memory but pants on the vx - Mart you geeza

Agree light weight car on motorway should be fine

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

Agree light weight car on motorway should be fine[/quote]

lightweight car for a lightweight person, nice to hear your back..., with your son on the go i expect the project to be ready for national day 2020....

[HAndy]

Agree light weight car on motorway should be fine

wheel spin city... here we come.........



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=plcMf6ZacUI

[HAndy]

another, just for good measure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jrp8fg3q3Ds

[Adey aka Ewok]

them vids look like they were dubed with the sound of a fast car

[Bigfoot]

them vids look like they were dubed with the sound of a fast car

Doesn't even look like its accelerating

[J$£5GTT]

Doesn't even look like its accelerating

my mate kenny's orion is faster...thats s h i t man....

[Daz.]

Not much to do with this thread but nice mk1 golf turbo build

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ytk...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq0eJ..._order&list=UL

[Chris Hebden]

Duncan, please please PLEASE run standalone and let Scoff loose on it!!!!!! The previous VAG 5 was amazing but in my opinion this one is going to be so much better with the engine change AND letting Scoff loose on the ECU!!!!!!!

PLEASEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Duncan Grier]

Well been out with the tape measure today reviewing engine and box choice and as expected cant do the one I want :-( 4wd option put to bed and non starter due to amount of risk of how the 4wd will work after creating a shorter wheelbase and ecu controling the power. Dsg was never in the mix but after seeing box its ruled out and the tsi is approx 2 inc wider and from a catch up chat with scoff we do not think there is he room to get it in after comparing to the original conversion. So fsi looks the one with the 6 speed box although certain fd will need changing to oil burner again.

Just not great weather for tracking down that needed 5

[Mart]

Not thought about a TDi lump mate?

[Duncan Grier]

Not thought about a TDi lump mate?

The one thing the 5 does not need is a low reving high torque engine, but did think about it

[Mart]

Says the man who stuck a VAG turbo lump into a 5

TDi could work - Depends upon application...

[J$£5GTT]

this threads getting carried away.....one thing at a time find a nice 5 first!