efi c1j vs f4r/f4rt

[HAndy]

what sorta power do you think your engine is producing scoff? and is there anyone close with a c1j?

the simple answer is no ,unless you count renault sport devision from back in the day , they must have pushed the turbo2 in grp b /or the maxi production series to over 400hp , but at what cost

[mike r5 gtt]

i thought that if two engines are running the same power but one is a 2.0 16v and the other a 1.4 8v then surely there must be less stress on the larger engines internals??

[HAndy]

i thought that if two engines are running the same power but one is a 2.0 16v and the other a 1.4 8v then surely there must be less stress on the larger engines internals??

you would have thought so wouldnt you, i understand that normal atmo engines create more strain than a turbo charged engine that have a cushion so to speak in the cylinders, on compression stroke, but still conrods do go ,scoff mentioned that in his old build , there must be a point within the c1j where something will let go, know matter how good the tune, dont use this as a ref frence or proof ,but younger andy from bb back in the day ,did say that when running big boost (300bhp area)that they would have to rebuild every 500 miles , along with gearbox /clutch etc

[Scoff]

Andy, sorry buddy, I wasn't suggesting anything like that. I don't know C1J's any better than anyone else, there are lots more people that could do a better job of building one than me. Glenn's soley responsible for the engine in his car, I'm just the mug that tunes it. I was just a little disapointed that people would write the engine off without giving it a fair hearing.

[Scoff]

i thought that if two engines are running the same power but one is a 2.0 16v and the other a 1.4 8v then surely there must be less stress on the larger engines internals??

Yes, ofcourse, but I wasn't suggesting that

[Andrew Cooke]

i thought that if two engines are running the same power but one is a 2.0 16v and the other a 1.4 8v then surely there must be less stress on the larger engines internals??

depends what you mean by stress, the smaller engine has reduced distances between everything, so is inherently stronger, it has less stroke, so the bottom end could rev a lot higher.

[HAndy]

Andy, sorry buddy, I wasn't suggesting anything like that. I don't know C1J's any better than anyone else, there are lots more people that could do a better job of building one than me. Glenn's soley responsible for the engine in his car, I'm just the mug that tunes it. I was just a little disapointed that people would write the engine off without giving it a fair hearing.

no no , dont be sorry, i have total respect for you
there's a reason why your at the top of 1/4m board with the f series and c1j for a long time
top marks to glen and others for pushing the c1j also, its a great little engine with bags of character and reliability , does show that 50 year old technolgy can still hold its own
but for me ,and others the thirst for more is always there and i just cant get enough its all about the accleration just hope rwd will help with that

[HAndy]

depends what you mean by stress, the smaller engine has reduced distances between everything, so is inherently stronger, it has less stroke, so the bottom end could rev a lot higher.

would that be the reason why when grp b was alive lancia and others used under 1800cc engine rather than pushing to the 2000cc limit

[Hi 5]

[quote=HAndy;187200]more to the point i was trying to make ..that most members dont have the skills and knowledge and the time /patience that you have scoff ,and to achieve that perfect c1j ,that would take that kind of power/perfect engine setup is never going to happen , without a large bill at a tuners ,and even then thats not 100% defo going to make the mark ,you have pushed that c1j well beyond what most people are capable of with both time and effort and mechanical know how but for the rest of us who ,lets face it are not so gifted
the bigger engine route is safer (with a little more room for error) to achieve more hp in a 5gtt than the

[HAndy]

"[QUOTE=HAndy;187200]more to the point i was trying to make ..that most members dont have the skills and knowledge " if it where that easy dont you think most of the club would be in that list

for what im after the c1j does not cut it, evolution my friend

[Hi 5]

Andy, sorry buddy, I wasn't suggesting anything like that. I don't know C1J's any better than anyone else, there are lots more people that could do a better job of building one than me. Glenn's soley responsible for the engine in his car, I'm just the mug that tunes it. I was just a little disapointed that people would write the engine off without giving it a fair hearing.

mug not at all son.

[Hi 5]

[quote=HAndy;187225]"

more to the point i was trying to make ..that most members dont have the skills and knowledge " if it where that easy dont you think most of the club would be in that list

for what im after the c1j does not cut it, evolution my friend

evolution buy a clio trophy

[HAndy]

[QUOTE=Hi 5;187229]

"
evolution buy a clio trophy

i ve got more track width than a 182 and more usable power, a lot less weight, and a much wider power band, besides a turbo/supercharger is going to be so much more fun

total respect for what your doing ,but i want something different ,and 1/4 mile aint my thing , plus i think gearboxes will be my big problem ,and santapod isnt going to help
more road and track for me

[mike r5 gtt]

i think im going to go for the efi on my c1j and then i can always start to build up an f4rt and fit it at a later date.
so the next thing is deciding which efi to run

[Hi 5]

i think im going to go for the efi on my c1j and then i can always start to build up an f4rt and fit it at a later date.
so the next thing is deciding which efi to run

thats wot i like to hear adaptronic is fantastic never had a problem with it 5 stars all the way and you will all so have the back up of a renault genius if you would like him to map it

[mike r5 gtt]

iv only ever used gotech or megasquirt before but that was with my fords so il start looking at all the options again!
think someone i know sells/maps emarald?

[Hi 5]

iv only ever used gotech or megasquirt before but that was with my fords so il start looking at all the options again!
think someone i know sells/maps emarald?

i would visit efi parts very good with renaults

[Matt Cole]

Also depends on what is meant by 'stressed'? Are we talking about material stresses? I dont think the materials between any of the engines is better between them. I think the design of the C1J is its limit to 'lasting' big BHP and not that the engine is 'stressed' with big boost etc. Reliability can be scaled with BHP, and the C1J GTT had 120bhp from it were as an F4R was designed with 172 bhp in mind, forgetting safety margins built in.

At the end of the day a C1J with 200bhp is dam good in a 850kg car, just as 200bhp from an F4R would be.

[mike r5 gtt]

i would visit efi parts very good with renaults

i seem to recognise that website but i cant think why

[Mudslinger]

Ive kinda forgot about mine this year , hopefully when ive got more time ill return to it , was not the easiest/cheapest way to do an efi conversion but i achieved the goal i was aiming for, has so much more to give than the 230bhp @wheels its running the now ,its just gagging to get a bigger turbo , but i aint got the cash these days , Have to say alot of respect to Scoff and Hi 5 for the acheivements they have had with the c1j and F4r respectively

If i were to start again id more than likely go the clio engine route tbh. i may consider a project with the trophy in the future

[mike r5 gtt]

im going to start making up the manifold this week and look into what injectors i should be getting.
when iv used efi stuff before it was pretty much a bolt on kit and both times iv only ever run the base map that the kit came with so this should b a good learning curve!!
i cant wait to confuse the hell out of myself with numbers!!!

[Os8472]

if i were you mate, there's a chap on here who makes loads of different inlets including an efi one, its the same as i have and it works spot on.

Get Scoff's timing wheel and crank sensor bracket.

Get the bosch fuel pump off the cossie.

Ebay for the fuel pressure reg, i got the fsc motorsport reg, does the job nicely.

Injectors depend on how much power you want.

The sensors you can get from Scoff's sight.

Just the ecu and loom, plenty of choice but it comes down to 3, the megasquirt, adaptronic and emerald, i got the emerald as there based half an hour from my house, but all three are good.

When you've got it ready to go, pm me and i'll send you a copy of my base map, should do nicely as a starting point

[mike r5 gtt]

iv already got a pump and pressure reg and im just looking thro the efi site!the crank sensor is in my basket!
iv gota decide on the ecu but the adaptronic does look good!but im gona speak to the emerald man 2moz before i buy anything.
il have a go at the manifold myself but its good to know i can buy one if/when i cock mine up
thanks for the offer on the map tho i might take you up on that