The future of the RTOC national day

Well I don't really know how to start here without any facts but I'll get the ball rolling based on the fact that discussing it within the committee behind closed doors or at the AGM where the people who attend are the ones who need less encouragement to commit to the RTOC national day.

When I joined up in 2002 I attended what can only be described as one of the most memorable weekends I've ever had with an epic turn out of Renault turbo's which filled Santa pod. Since then, I've attended every national day since despite not having my 1 and only GTT turbo on the road for 4 years.

Since those days, the numbers have dropped and dropped year on year, even national days at Santa pod became 'empty' when I think we changed venue at that point. I think this trend has continued, if the committee could provide numbers this would be good.

My point is, that if what Clee has quoted is accurate and we are set to loose 7K then another approach may be necessary (I assume that a loss of this size would not be sustainable), and it would be good to have a frank and open discussion about what people want from the club, and if it is the case that 90% want it simply for advice and cheap parts, then that is a fact and we will never change that, but what we need to do is protect the fantastic community on here and provide affordable days that are cost effective with. A poll would be a good starting point to see how many members

A. Respond to the poll
B. Are interested in a national day.
C. Are not interested in a national day.

I know there have been discussions about this, but it needs bottoming out and conclusions / plans to be based on the data collected.

The biggest problem is £££....

RTOC has less than around 850 paying members..... (estimate)

600 renewals
250 new members

So thats an income of about £12k from memberships....

The time you take money from group buys, club shop - buying intial stock, advertising etc... its not a huge amount to spend on ND, POD etc...

The general feel is people want a ND at a weekend rather than week day... you try finding a venua that will accept a small club over a weekend...

Pod will only ever offer us a weekday as weekends are pre booked & sold to companys for alot more than it cost us for a friday... even a rwyb weekend gets pod more income...

Mallory park is one of the few venues that will accept us for a weeked (friday - sunday) for a reasonible cost... also has camping, toilets, showers and a restaurant... also a bonus of havin something to do whislt were there ... a nice little track :)

Most tracks in the uk will not entertain us, or if they do they want £20k+ for a day, with no camping....

When RTOC had Brunters, and shared Rockingham with FCS we camped off site... how many of you went to be at 2am or later.... were drinking pretty heavily friday night... and then had to drive to the Venue... :disagree:

I personally Feel Mallory has run its course.... next year could be different... but I very much doubt the club will entertain a Track based ND, Pod is an option but unlikely to be a weekend... maybe shakespear could be an option - I have never been there does it have camping??

I also feel that RTOC cant not support 2 venues, 2 big events... Mallory cost £10k, pod £5k.... Last year we had a good year and made a tiny profit at ND & a small loss at Pod... the banks are healthy and can just handle a hit this year.... but next year will be very hard for us.:(

im defo interested in the national day this is what being a member of a club is all about, i missed last years (only been a member since nov 2009) due to being out the country but im there this year with my other half in tow got her come along as its another £10 towards costs every little helps guys.

i think its time we had a poll as to events/venues for next year
as i find these threads really depressing
the club just isnt big enought to support what everyone wants
and the older cars are slowly fading away

theres no easy answer to this
im glad im not in millers position as he allways cops the flack
for not solving the unsolvable:crap:

Am sure various polls would be good. It would be worthwhile spamming the member base to get as many answers as possible.

Weekday vs weekend.
National day vs North/South days.

I too am fairly shocked and dismayed by the above but is the lack of response so far indicative of the way of things at the moment, I hope not. As a club the only people to blame for the success or failure of these events is ourselves, I hope to see lots there this year.

Bottom line is - You can't please all the people all the time.

Year on Year its the same core of members that turn up for ND and attend the AGM.

Its not going to change unless we attract more modern Reno Turbo's into the fold...

Like Penfold has said there aren't many venues that would take us with the track + onsite camping and come in on budget.

2012 will be an interesting year, hopefully there are some good suggestions and willing members to help out :)

I can't come this year due to family commitments, was looking forward to having some beers with you guys and ragging the tits off my car, shame if it is a dying breed. Is there no milage in trying to combine with some other clubs?

There should not be a profit motive for a club of member as ours , it is not a bussiness............... so the words profit or loss shouldnt be used ... the correct term is Reserves... if this or any other sociaty of members aims for an annual profit... then what should be done with that profit and what if nothing is done for any number of years ...it then belongs to the members of any new year without the benefit of former years members.............. Just to summise the usefull use of our money is the only concern of the commity. Be it to grow or to hold an event or 10...... there is never a loss as members gain by there membership.......any money raised in one year should be spent in that year............:)

Not sure about you lot, but im pretty sure everyone's fekin skint!!!!:scared:

I think a lot, perhaps newer members don't realise that we are a non-profit organisation and any profit we do make goes straight back into the club again. This enables us to invest in OE parts for the shop, group buys, to keep the forum running and most importantly, to heavily subsidise our events.

In years gone by, a profit may have been made on everything but the demise of the 5 is of course affecting the club, so we very soon need to think of ways to expand/move and keep the club alive.

It all revolves around the support of the members. We make no profit on anything in the club shop, it's all sold at cost, perhaps with PayPal fees on top and anything additional is absolutely minimal. It isn't the end of the world if we lose money at an event as we'll make the vast majority of that back in memberships (we broke even at National Day last year remember).

It can't go on forever and we won't be the first car club to have experienced this, but those smaller clubs don't also have events on the scale of ours, so really, we're very lucky indeed.

What I really want to see is the members all shouting about National Day and our Pod event to other related clubs and getting everyone involved. It'll mean we keep the bank balance happy so we can continue right until all the 5's are dead. So get buying your tickets, support the club and get involved. If you think you can help, feel free to shout me any time of the day. I'm really busy at the moment behind the scenes finalising bits and pieces with the rest of the Commitee for National Day and help especially from the Area Reps will be greatly received :)

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Originally Posted by Eugein Offord

There should not be a profit motive for a club of member as ours , it is not a bussiness............... so the words profit or loss shouldnt be used ... the correct term is Reserves...

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Come on Eugine, you've been around long enough to know the RTOC doesn't exist to make a profit. In terms of "Reserves" it would be nice to keep enough in reserve to cover the deposit on the next years event.

I am fairly new on here so forgive me if I am suggesting something which has been explored before now.

How about a hill climb venue...ok it is not going to please everybody but it could work out cheaper than a track and offer some short hits of adrenalin! It has corners though unlike a drag strip.

Many years ago, I used to attend Prescott Hill Climb each year with another club and really enjoyed it.

If people wanted a competitive element to it, you could have a few classes:
Standard
Modified
Highly Modified
...with a bench mark time to beat. Dependant on your car's class, you would get points for your time against the bench mark time. This is kinda how the Ferrari boys do it these days albeit across a season of hill climb venues.

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Come on Eugine, you've been around long enough to know the RTOC doesn't exist to make a profit. In terms of "Reserves" it would be nice to keep enough in reserve to cover the deposit on the next years event.

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ditto..........:)

For me the word loss used by members implies a failure of some sort ,for an event. Which i dont see as a failure when members gain from the event in a non finacial mannor....:)

hillclimb seems a very good suggestion to me, personally id not dream of NOT attending nats day, even purely to spectate, but thats just me.

I guess the fact is that rtoc has always been mainly r5's, however the prices on these aswell as the parts has hiked up, pushing people towards other cheap and cheerfull pocket rockets. and away from the r5, and therefore nats day.

I feel the most important thing is not to change the venue as i dont feel this is the problem, but more to take the plunge and accept that we need to somehow welcome in other owners clubs to the event (maybe not even renault), to help cover the costs, possibly in limited numbers, 10 track passes to clio sport, 5 to 205 gti drivers, 5 to passion-ford that kind of thing.

Yes they get a cheap track day, but chances are if they have a good time they will also sign up to the boards, all in all generating funds for the club and help keeping the events coming.

Firstly, quoting a 7K loss is a little misleading at this point as I know quite a few members who haven't yet bought their tickets in advance not to mention those who decide to buy on the day. Ok, the club may still make a loss but it wont be to the tone of £7000.

The figures Penfold quoted earlier are interesting. Just under 850 paying members of which 600 are renewals! :eek: Putting National Day aside, Id like to address this first. We are talking money here and whatever the set up, managing the money properly is crucial whether it be a non profit organisation or Shell....The amount of times I see on here people missing their renewal date by days and asking for the £10 fee still. Rules are rules. Id like to put a figure on how much the club has lost through this method of not charging members full wack if they miss their date! The club isnt a charity. Even if it was say 50 people,(wild guess) which Im sure isn't very far away from the actual figure per year, that is £750.00 the club is losing out on...£750.00.....I cant help feeling this needs addressing.

With regards to National Day perhaps we should go back to basics for next years and use the bigger events for the annual get togethers, Renault World Series, FCS, Santa Pod RWYB etc abit like it used to be.

The Clio V6 Owners Club this year is holding their main club day up in the Lakes and it promises to be a fantastic day. A list of hotels has been given and its up to the members to book their rooms if they decide to stay the night before and indeed afterwards. Locally there are camp sites as well that some people might be using. We will all park up, chat, buy, sell, and then drive together and stop for various things. Now I know the numbers are a little different but at least RTOC members will be together and it will cost the club nothing.

The Dutch club arranges with the appropriate people and meet up in a HUGE carpark usually like an Ikea type place or similar for one of their big days. Its fantastic.

Why dont we try a mix of both. On the Saturday a drive and on the Sunday a meet...

The National day was born in 2002 with the main aim being for Owners to get together and enjoy their passion together. This cant be a difficult thing to do and like I said last year, and the year before, Id be happy to help organise a new method of National Day....

The Club should look into how other clubs (that support similar cult classic motors but that are 5-10 years further down the line than us), have managed this type of long-term transition. There's a lot we can learn from other organisations (adopt their winning strategies and learn from their failures).

We are slowly turning into an 'old classics' outfit. It's something we should eithe gradually embrace or totally reject because it's inevitable if this club's modus operandi remains the same.

The only way I can see big turn outs to future RTOC events given the lessening number of GTTs on the road (and our small number of non-GTT club members), is to reach out. To consider closer relationships, including merging, with some of the other, older fast Renault model clubs (and/or possibly consider a Euro merger). Either that or perhaps widen the scope of the club by doing a lot more (i.e. change the whole basis of this club), to attract any and all performance Renault models.

So it's a choice between two evils:

- accept the withering and distilling down of club numbers/turnout but maintain the roots/purity/general GTT enthusiast nature of the club and adapt to the inevitable changes

- keep the club going/bustling at the expense of tradition by changing some of the fundamentals

There really aren't any other choices bar jacking it in. With 850 paying members, that would be ridiculous.

I have checked the actuall members numbers... and its less than what I original esitmated...not as good as I first thought...

** Please ignore all figures, going to double check as something strange is happening on the database**

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Originally Posted by Lomo

Firstly, quoting a 7K loss is a little misleading at this point as I know quite a few members who haven't yet bought their tickets in advance not to mention those who decide to buy on the day. Ok, the club may still make a loss but it wont be to the tone of £7000.

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Yes ,it was more of a wake up statement .It's how we stand at present .How many is quite a few though ? ;)
We still need to shift another 35 track tickets to get even halfway + only about 2 dozen std entry sold :scratch:

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Originally Posted by Lomo

Firstly, quoting a 7K loss is a little misleading at this point as I know quite a few members who haven't yet bought their tickets in advance not to mention those who decide to buy on the day. Ok, the club may still make a loss but it wont be to the tone of £7000.

The figures Penfold quoted earlier are interesting. Just under 850 paying members of which 600 are renewals! :eek: Putting National Day aside, Id like to address this first. We are talking money here and whatever the set up, managing the money properly is crucial whether it be a non profit organisation or Shell....The amount of times I see on here people missing their renewal date by days and asking for the £10 fee still. Rules are rules. Id like to put a figure on how much the club has lost through this method of not charging members full wack if they miss their date! The club isnt a charity. Even if it was say 50 people,(wild guess) which Im sure isn't very far away from the actual figure per year, that is £750.00 the club is losing out on...£750.00.....I cant help feeling this needs addressing.

With regards to National Day perhaps we should go back to basics for next years and use the bigger events for the annual get togethers, Renault World Series, FCS, Santa Pod RWYB etc abit like it used to be.

The Clio V6 Owners Club this year is holding their main club day up in the Lakes and it promises to be a fantastic day. A list of hotels has been given and its up to the members to book their rooms if they decide to stay the night before and indeed afterwards. Locally there are camp sites as well that some people might be using. We will all park up, chat, buy, sell, and then drive together and stop for various things. Now I know the numbers are a little different but at least RTOC members will be together and it will cost the club nothing.

The Dutch club arranges with the appropriate people and meet up in a HUGE carpark usually like an Ikea type place or similar for one of their big days. Its fantastic.

Why dont we try a mix of both. On the Saturday a drive and on the Sunday a meet...

The National day was born in 2002 with the main aim being for Owners to get together and enjoy their passion together. This cant be a difficult thing to do and like I said last year, and the year before, Id be happy to help organise a new method of National Day....

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Give that man a cigar.

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Originally Posted by clee

Yes ,it was more of a wake up statement .It's how we stand at present .How many is quite a few though ? ;)
We still need to shift another 35 track tickets to get even halfway + only about 2 dozen std entry sold :scratch:

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In our little group alone Clee there is over £300.00 worth of tickets coming the clubs way and I know of 6 or 7 members outside that who are yet to purchase anything but intend on doing so..

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Originally Posted by Lomo

In our little group alone Clee there is over £300.00 worth of tickets coming the clubs way and I know of 6 or 7 members outside that who are yet to purchase anything but intend on doing so..

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I completely agree lomo ... Me being one of them !

Only a small thing but I went on to the club shop yesterday to purchase my National day tickets, got to purchasing and the only option was paypal or money order!!! Surely if there was an easier payment route ie credit card payments then I'm sure more would purchase... I personally think is wrong to suggest paypal as our main payment system & money order is so old fashion.. It can be such a hassel to add the monies to paypal & setting up an account ect.... I can only take from my own personal experience and this caused me to not to purchase ( an I'm an member) imagine how none member, Who don't really care for the club, but just want a good track day !!!

Gibbo

Cheque or money order :coffee:

We could set up debit and credit card acceptance but for the small volume of sales it's not really worth the expense .The shop is not a true shop in that sense .
It could be ,we could invest the National day and POD monies in stock and special manufacturing but then it would need running full time and you'd have to pay somebody to do that .

If we have a PayPal Business account then you don't actually need a PayPal account to pay and credit/debit cards are accepted anyway

https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/ac...ypal/index.htm

Yes ,we could do that :agree:

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Originally Posted by clee

Cheque or money order :coffee:

We could set up debit and credit card acceptance but for the small volume of sales it's not really worth the expense .The shop is not a true shop in that sense .
It could be ,we could invest the National day and POD monies in stock and special manufacturing but then it would need running full time and you'd have to pay somebody to do that .

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I agree but we need to look at a smoother and more effective process, there may be an additional expense for extra payment tech... If it meant an 20% increase in ticket sales it pays for itself.... And more

Gibbo

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Originally Posted by Renault 5 GT Turbo

...with a bench mark time to beat. Dependant on your car's class, you would get points for your time against the bench mark time.

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When I looked into a hill clib event it seems very clear that timed sprints, ie, racing, is completely not allowed.

We know it is at Pod.

But the sprint and hill climb tracks are controlled by some kind of national organisation and only people who pay them for a license can do measured times.

Has this changed?

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Originally Posted by Gibbo69

Credit card.

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We had World Pay a few years ago. Took only a few payments a year. Cost us about £600 a year.

Things have changed. I looked at credit card 15 months ago. But is still costs something and for nearly no use. It is some protracted hassle to set up and maintain. No-one is being paid to run this club so how much do you expect of the volunteers who do?

We took about £7500 in the last 12 months. Works out to nearer 525 members.

Penfold will be able to confirm that current new memberships are just over 200 in the last year and renewals are just over 300.

They've both halved from three maybe two years ago when there seemed to be a core of about 600 renewals.

So that's not good news for this club. Renewal is only £10 so people must be moving on.

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Originally Posted by D4WNO

If we have a PayPal Business account then you don't actually need a PayPal account to pay and credit/debit cards are accepted anyway

https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/ac...ypal/index.htm

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We take less that the £1000 a month is says there. Maybe £625 in memberships and whatever in ticket sales and general shop sales. This service costs £240 a year. If it's used 20 times for those without a paypal account is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by Ian S

When I looked into a hill clib event it seems very clear that timed sprints, ie, racing, is completely not allowed.

We know it is at Pod.

But the sprint and hill climb tracks are controlled by some kind of national organisation and only people who pay them for a license can do measured times.

Has this changed?

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If this is the case, then it must present itself to get some club on club action going.
Cliosport VS Rtoc etc etc

There must be someone able to set up a timed sprint with all the gubbins that goes with it for us. http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk ?

My other club (FDMC) have regular sprints.. They have to pay for the company to come down with the timing gear and have a ST Johns Ambulance on stand-by. Usually quite a good turn out, you get 3 runs for the entry fee (£100-£120).
http://www.farnboroughdmc.org.uk/dim2011repa.php

There are some MSA regulations around the sprints, and it does start to become a bit of a specialist hobby. Not quite the same as rocking up with your home modifed Renault 5 and wanting to race it. :cooter:

as has already been said , what about just going for the cheaper option and using another prearranged event such as fcs to replace nationals day, It would be sad to see it happen but if you look at the numbers of r5s etc that attend mallory , imagine that same number attending FCS, the buzz would be awesome.

Even then we could do mallory say once every two years rather than every year to help keep costs down.

Just a thought, a compromise.

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Originally Posted by Ian S

When I looked into a hill clib event it seems very clear that timed sprints, ie, racing, is completely not allowed.

We know it is at Pod.

But the sprint and hill climb tracks are controlled by some kind of national organisation and only people who pay them for a license can do measured times.

Has this changed?

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We need to be MSA registered .I brought this up a while ago but it's gone on the back burner .We would need a competition CM to handle it all .

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Originally Posted by clee

We need to be MSA registered .I brought this up a while ago but it's gone on the back burner .We would need a competition CM to handle it all .

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Can we not do it without official timing? The club I used to attend with did it this way, people still drove the cars within an inch of their lives and 'personally' timed their runs!

Doubt we'd get public liability cover unless MSA approved .I don't know 100% but we'd be daft not to get registered anyway .It means members can do a lot more purely because they belong to a registered club ,not just our own events .
It doesn't cost much ,we just have to meet certain criteria .

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Originally Posted by djinuk

as has already been said , what about just going for the cheaper option and using another prearranged event such as fcs to replace nationals day, It would be sad to see it happen but if you look at the numbers of r5s etc that attend mallory , imagine that same number attending FCS, the buzz would be awesome.

Even then we could do mallory say once every two years rather than every year to help keep costs down.

Just a thought, a compromise.

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I agree with Mr Spendlove - for me the attraction is just as much the beer / BBQ and meeting up with loads of peeps we rarely see, as it is the track / strip stuff, if not even more so. Are there members that would simply not turn up just for the beery weekend?

Don't get me wrong - I love the track / strip action but if it wasn't on offer I'd still turn up for the beer.

Thinking a bit further forward - it may be a flipping good idea for us to have our Nat day with PPC and enter an RTOC car. Problem solved.

Right - Next issue on the agenda please.

:agree:Good thread and good read :agree:

my two cents i havnt missed many nat days only due to opperations, but id spend a weekend in a field for national day or a camp site with a good pub nearby... or try maybe to get the national weekend tied in with a big summer car show on the sat and sunday track day for those wishing to attend, with camping near one or other,

Just a thought and could be done for alot less if we found a track day near the show or vise versa...

Just a thought :agree:

i have no interest in taking part in track days, what little i did has left the building...

i like the camping, beer bbq etc..

i like the pod but its quieter than years ago, this year was better than last i think:)

if i was to miss an event it would be the track, no one round heres that interested in the day.. im bored of hearing/reading about the track day woes now, i wish it would end and we just had a meet at stringfellows car park for beers and strippers..

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Originally Posted by dangerous dave

we just had a meet at stringfellows car park for beers and strippers..

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Best Idea I've ever hear :agree:

Can some one contact Peter and see if we can book an RTOC stand / VIP area?

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Originally Posted by Trevhib

We are slowly turning into an 'old classics' outfit. It's something we should eithe gradually embrace or totally reject because it's inevitable if this club's modus operandi remains the same.

The only way I can see big turn outs to future RTOC events given the lessening number of GTTs on the road (and our small number of non-GTT club members), is to reach out. To consider closer relationships, including merging, with some of the other, older fast Renault model clubs (and/or possibly consider a Euro merger). Either that or perhaps widen the scope of the club by doing a lot more (i.e. change the whole basis of this club), to attract any and all performance Renault models.

So it's a choice between two evils:

- accept the withering and distilling down of club numbers/turnout but maintain the roots/purity/general GTT enthusiast nature of the club and adapt to the inevitable changes

- keep the club going/bustling at the expense of tradition by changing some of the fundamentals

There really aren't any other choices bar jacking it in.

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:agree:good point made there pal.as the years go on so do the cars and yeh they are great cars but to some ppl its just not for them anymore.as the prices of repairs and parts for the car can be alot and some ppl just dont have the money to spend on them.
so that might just lead them to breaking up the car and selling on the parts,for each person that might do this,this will lead into less renualt 5s on the raod and imo this seems to be the case.:(
there is no problem with this because its up to the person who owns the car so thats fair enough.tryin to make national day so bigger and better with just say 90% of renualt 5s i think will be very tricky.even if it wasnt just say renualt 5s there is a very small amount of other renualts as well.only guessing but this seems not to be covering the cost of every think.(money wise)
from what ian says (They've both halved from three maybe two years ago when there seemed to be a core of about 600 renewals.) from hearin this its not good and ppl have seemed to move on theres nothing you can do about it like i said before its just one of them.

the way i see it is that the renault 5 gt turbo is now getting old and its slowly fading away its hard to say but its true i think:(.the club as it is,is fine but as for national day we might need to merge with our newer brothers of renault :)i dont think there is nothing wrong with that because its all renualt anyway:agree:.
to see new renualt megans next to a renault 5 next to a gta v6 i think is pretty :cool:its just a massive change and somethink diffrent to see.

is this why ford do so well at there national days with so many cars turning up? i dont know but it works i guess and seems very busy the last time my bro went at silverstone.personaly i think we have to bige the bullet and see to try and move along side a clio national day or a renault megan turbo national day or meets(if they do them) and see how they get on and check out each other cars out:cool::agree:.
after all imo national day is about seing each other cars and have a chat about them.:agree:

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Good thread.. interesting read

- my humble opinion

Although I am a new member to the club, I have been into and owned R5's over the last 20 years.

As with other clubs that I have been a member: - when the the basis of the club starts to age (the cars themselves), the focus of the club will inevitably change. When the cars are fresh affordable and there is an abundance of spares people will continue to up-rate, modify and thrash the living daylights out of them. As more head to the scrap yard the onus will return to the restoration and preservation of the vehicles that are left and making them original-ish. This in turn hikes the price of the cars, the spares, reduces the ownership numbers and ultimately people don't want to thrash them around a track or up a drag strip.

With the reducing numbers it appears this is starting to happen, so as already stated making the ND a more generalised meet, camp over with beers and a BBQ could be the future with track and drag days affiliated with another club.

For longevity the future may unfortunately mean merging with another group of enthusiasts in the same position as R5 owners - maybe an 1980,s and 90's hot hatch club. A bit of competition within sub groups of larger community would be a good sport in itself

:)

Im just wondering how many members on renault5gtturbo.com are not members on here, im registered on both, but rarely use the other site, I have seen threads on there about people asking about rtoc and is it worth the joining fee. Could the club not offer a free 1 month all access pass to have a bit of a browse round rtoc, it may get some more gt members on board.

As for national day i can not comment, my first this year. It does sound as though it has all the makings of a good day out, just can not understand why threads like this keep popping up.

I think it probably just needs a bit of a tweek, try to get some new members in, maybe get the clio boys involved.

The instructor training sounds a good idea for this year.

Is there no where at mallory we could do a 0-60 or quarter mile, how longs the straight? is there the no way of having the second half of the day doing that, Just ideas guys do shoot me down if its not possible.

A lot of people used to join to advertise their car. Sell it then 'leave'.

If we gave a free period we'd have to charge them to advertise.

The admin of all that would be too much.

The concerning thing is the halving in number of 'core' members, ie, renewals. Even though it's only £10. Those people think it's not worth it any more.

Isn't this just a case of same old same?

How many times has it been mentioned in the past (and at last year's AGM) about the future of the club & dwindling member count, but still nothing happens to change that.

What happened of the discussion from the AGM/threads from last year about an alternative venue/format for this year's ND? Was that ignored, or did we just sit back & 'play safe' with Mallory again?

Likewise, it was also suggested about us amalgamating with another 'old car' club, be it Renault orientated or 80's hot hatches in general, but has anything been done to even begin initiating that?

The Hillclimb event was mentioned donkeys ago, but did anyone look into it seriously?

Imho, there does need to be some changes, otherwise it's obvious to see that the club will eventually start diminishing away to nothing.

And aside from that, and this ISN'T a pop before anyone starts, but, genuinely, where is Miller these days? Is it fair & now within reason to ask Chris if his heart is still in it as being club President?

The club just needs people to volunteer to do these things.

And by that I don't mean volunteer to wait to be told what to do, but to actively come up with the ideas and then find a way to make them happen and then make them happen. Get the information, solve the problems, present the answers to the committee and members.

Some people make suggestions, some of them good.

The club, as far as events goes, lacks the next stage turning them into action.

There's no point in referencing to Miller. He's just one busy man out of 525 members. He does still have the title of ND organiser but it's fair to say he's not organised this years one. His contribution so far this time has been to provisionally book Mallory and he only did that because the person he'd said he tasked it to months earlier denied all knowledge and presented no generally acceptable alternatives. It seems that Miller may be doing some leaflets and sorting the trophies but it's fair to presume that from last October or before he doesn't want to do ND any more.

We have a general events organiser but it appears he's too busy working abroad to be able to lead from the front / go to all the events / etc.

We NEED more people to get involved. Without that happening, the club will eventually wither away.

With a lot less people to draw new organisers from, that increases the problems.

As far as the title of club president goes, it's just a name. It does not mean the holder of that name will save the club. Or even do anything. There appears to be no-one to replace Miller as ND organiser. The club doesn't need people who want titles. It needs people who want to, and will, make a difference.

I sense a tinge of sadness with your post there Ian :( I feel the same mate - I've been here ~15 years, and would love there to still be an RTOC in some shape or form over the next 15 years & beyond :agree:

With regards to the 'title' comment, that may well be the case that members can still organise events or whatever off their own back, but surely the people with the titles should be leading by example? After all, they were the ones that were elected/voted into that position.

I don't know what the answers are mate, but I do personally feel that you guys on the Committee (along with Chris) should be the ones guiding the club in a new direction, if things are currently as bad/bleak-looking for the future as what's being made out to be the case :(

''We NEED more people to get involved. Without that happening, the club will eventually wither away.''


Ian your a top chap, ive offerd to help out countless times and have been snubbed.. if you need help.. pop ups as irritating as they are! use them to ask for help support or people will never know...

not a dig just the way its seen by a few as regards helping out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Not sure about you lot, but im pretty sure everyone's fekin skint!!!!:scared:

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:agree:

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5alldaway

:agree:

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

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When do people get savaged? :crap:

link please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRP

When do people get savaged? :crap:

link please

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you know full well it happens

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5alldaway

:agree:

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

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Fair point :agree:

Someone who left and returned just recently mentioned somewhere that only just a few years back it was getting a bit harsh but now its alot friendlier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5alldaway

you know full well it happens

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Havent seen any direct insults thrown, normaly its an offhand comment, id imagine when typed doesnt seem so bad, but upon interpritation from an individual, you have potential to be offended..

Think maybe your selling the club and alot of member short and taring alot of ''usual members'' with a bad brush.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mart

members can still organise events..... but surely the people with the titles should be leading by example? After all, they were the ones that were elected/voted into that position.

---

Most of the people with titles were:
•appointed by Me and Miller.
•Asked by me to be on the committee and accepted,
•offered in response to my 'advert' and were accepted.

Miller himself was 'volunteered' by Rach after Bruce left to work abroad. He was somewhat reluctant and reserved but threw himself into it for a few months at the end of 2006.

The only real vote was for the most recent Events person after several people applied. And that was only the committee voting.

There haven't been enough interested people to need a members vote. Just the opposite really, a leader has moved on and the position can't be (adequately if at all) filled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

I do personally feel that the Committee should be the ones guiding the club in a new direction

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Yes I agree that should be the case but quite a lot of committee have moved on and not been replaced. The few are all quite busy just keeping things running in their own areas. It did become very apparent recently that more cohesion /people is/are needed as important items were being left by all to someone else and no-one else noticed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5alldaway

:agree:

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

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No offence, but you always seem to bring this up. How often are you on line these days? Yes, it did used to happen on every other thread a few years back (I admit to being one of the worst culprits). However, things have calmed down A LOT in that respect, over the last couple of years. I can't remember the last time I read a thread where a 'newbie' got Royally flamed. Although admittedly I don't read every thread on here, like I used to.

**This is where someone links a recent thread where I've done just that** :laugh:

Do you think what kept the membership level up was the fun of logging on to see Bill and others flame new members :wasntme:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Do you think what kept the membership level up was the fun of logging on to see Bill and others flame new members :wasntme:

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I think you could be on to something there Ian. The boards were really active a few years back, we had more members, a better turnout at events, and me ripping the crap out of anyone and everyone.

As soon as I 'get old', and 'retire', the posts, membership levels, event turnouts have all dropped.....

Hmmm :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Do you think what kept the membership level up was the fun of logging on to see Bill and others flame new members :wasntme:

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Mmmm, what to do now that even the lolers have been eradicated?
Actually I haven't really noticed it and being a relative newby although I am aware of my lack of knowledge peeps have always been helpful. Anyway I think this is a subject for a different thread at least ideas etc are being bandied around before ND and can be discussed there.
What specific help us needed for the club?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian S

Do you think what kept the membership level up was the fun of logging on to see Bill and others flame new members :wasntme:

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:laugh:

As "Events Organiser" I guess I'd better add something to this thread:

Shut up all you moaning b1tches :laugh: :wasntme:

I'd just like to point out that yes I know I've not been the best EO I could have been in the last few months, however I have had got a few things on-going at the moment (Wedding & Travelling a lot for work. Currently writing this in Venice!)

My belief is that because of the costs of fuel etc that have gone up people are going to be less bothered about trackdays and because the shift to restoration from modification the Pod isn't as high up everyone's agenda now?

Therefore I think we should see about getting some half decent campsite sorted next year for a bit of BBQ/Drinking & chilling as a ND??

This club is not a dictatorship lead by me or anyone else on the Committe where there decisions shape what the club will do. If you guys tell me what you all want to do next year then we can organise it?

If anyone wants for me to step down & take up the role then just let me know? I do still have passion for this club & what it does though & will be on here with all the regulars for a LONG while yet!!

I don't want this thread to drag down everyones spirits about the forthcoming ND, come on guys, we're british, Stiff Upper Lips on, chests out & Push on!!!

To Finish I'd just like to say that one of the best people to take over from Miller if he IS stepping down is D4WNO! :niceone: I think everyone would be surprised as to how much she does behind the scenes already

Why not arrange a camping meet up then later in the year?

Both the main events are in June July so how about late Aug early Sep before the whether cools too much?

Don't just talk about it. Do it. Find somewhere in the Midlands. Get an idea of who's interested from a thread and messaging loads of people. Book the venue. Advertise it. Get the flyers made a distributed. Keep pushing it on these forums and the home page and more PM's and talking to people. Create enthusiasm.

Are there some large events with other clubs around that time period that could double with an over night RTOC meeting? Find out. Talk to those clubs about the camping arrangements.

It must be fairly easy if there's no major venue, such a track, being booked with it by yourself. Just a camping area.

How many people will attend? Find out. Even if it's just 20. Arrange it. Book it. Take the payments or at least deposits.

Clearly I know what to do but I'm not interested. So Steve, over to you :)

ND 2012, Camping Shell Island Wales... Done :)..

I go camping here with my mates quite a lot,
http://www.rosscider.com/

Camping in the old orchard, £5 per night, bbqs and lovely cider. :D

I personally cant wait for national day. as this will be the first ive been able to attend.

Perhaps we could list options for next years national day then stick them in a poll and all vote?

I also remember when i first joined, i had little mechanical knowledge and did find the forums a little intimidating,i didnt want to say something stupid. This site alot of the time can be very technical with a lot of very intelligent members.
I think gettin people to smaller events first is the key to getting people more involved. Are new members automatically introduced to there respective area reps? Perhaps a certain number of events should be made mandatory in each area, with brownie points for attending/organising!! 5 a year atleast? no matter how small, even just a little gathering somewhere.... anything to bring the members together.

I'LL be making it my business to talk to PPC @ MAllory next week to discuss a manufacturor type shootout for next year and then go from there, maybe as part of 2 or 3 meets.

Or some one else who can do a smallish event like this, please do put yourself forward but only if you CAN and WILL do the research, lead the way, be there.

Steve it would be very good if you make this happen but based on your performance so far I just don't think you can. You're scant on the committee boards and abroad so often. It totally fails to cut it with me at least that you can't really get anything else done this year 'cause you getting married. Unless that is an example of how very very little free time you have that that really is the only thing you, or anyone else on your schedule, can/could arrange.

Steve, I had to enter a few events in the calendar, PPC in the Park to mention one big one, even after people had pointed out that the calendar was bare and even after I'd posted details and repeat mentioned. Is that because you didn't have time?

In which case, the club needs someone, or several people, with plenty of free time to organise events not just suggest something and ask a question in a thread. Organising is time consuming hard slog and often largely thankless. It needs inventiveness and also the motivation and drive to deliver an end result for people you don't know and may not even like. But for the greater good.

I'm not taking this moment to be unpleasant to you Steve, there is no emotion in what I'm saying here. But I'm overly frustrated by the lack an any action on the events front apart from what mainly Lee and Dawn, and to a tiny extent me, Ashy, anyone else, are doing. Good that you're going to be the liaison man all weekend at the Mallory event with Miller not doing it, that will no doubt be a big help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

ND 2012, Camping Shell Island Wales... Done :)..

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigdur

I go camping here with my mates quite a lot,
http://www.rosscider.com/

Camping in the old orchard, £5 per night, bbqs and lovely cider. :D

---

Sounds good :)

Small events like these can grow into large ones.

Back when I was 'alive' I used to organise a Barn Dance each year for local friends. Eventually it grew so there would be 150 people coming from all over south England. The evening itself was plenty of work and I was too busy to take part in the fun much, partly as I was welcoming and feeding everyone; so they were all paying something so; logging arrivals, delivering who ordered what. Organising and paying the band, circulating to each table. Organising prizes and a raffle, cash bar, clearing up the venue after and organising helpers from before to after. But it was satisfying to achieve and had the knock on effect that I was invited to loads if other peoples events that I could relax at and enjoy.

If some of you get together in some small regular camping meet, then other's might join in.

I think trying to plan some one off big weekend camping event to happen in 15 months is the wrong way to approach it.

I think the fact is, that with a big draw such as watching cars at the Pod and milling with much of the clubs members, etc, then a lot less RTOC members will be motivated to attend. So from the start you can forget about having 300 people turn up for a RTOC ND camping weekend in say Aug 2012. Start off small this year.

And it doesn't really have to be one event or one RTOC event organiser. It makes some sense to have a couple or so of them at different regions. Say, south coast; Brighton, Bournemouth, type of thing. Wales has been mentioned. Maybe something for the North of Britain. And obviously something central that people from everywhere can attend. Though some will only want to travel to their local event.

I havent had much time to read this today, but was thinking maybe we could do next years nd or a later meet at a show, or a track event like btcc or something....

Dont need to be a trackday for us guys does it....

I would be up for something like that, that way were not thrashing our cars, still camp, have beers, a good laugh and see some good track action... + clio cups on track :)

Shoppers, read Ian's posts above yours - There's no reason why something like that can't be arranged for this year. There's plenty of BTCC events still to go this year, or failing that, as has been mentioned, a simple get-together in a field/campsite somewhere, with a bit of music, some beers, group bbq, and good laughs.

You & Steve were both sitting round the table at that pub near Billy's a few months back when I mentioned about the 'run to the sun' (Newquay) idea, and/or a weekend camping up in the Lakes - There's no reason why that still can't happen for this year.

If you want me to look into it, just say the word, but I don't want to be treading on Steve's toes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Walker

with brownie points for attending/organising!! 5 a year atleast? no matter how small, even just a little gathering somewhere.... anything to bring the members together.

---

Am sure vbulletin has some features for rep, and badges. Might be worth considering implementing them.... Need some thought tho. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

...a leader has moved on and the position can't be (adequately if at all) filled...

---

Is that implying Miller has left then?

If that's the case, I see no reason why you, Dawn, Ashy, Clee, or Sparkie couldn't easily & 'adequately' take on the now-redundant President role.

RWS is always a good weekend with plenty to do... Mix that in with the Gala dinner and you have a top weekend of Reno Action.

A few years back (maybe 6 or 7) we did a great event "Northern Ale Rider" around Derby / Sheffield Camping, pub food and beer and a great blast around endless country roads :agree:

More like that would be awesome, not sure if there would be the interest these days tho?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mart

If that's the case, I see no reason why you, Dawn, Ashy, Clee, or Sparkie couldn't easily & 'adequately' take on the now-redundant President role.

---

Sorry mate, I haven't got anywhere near enough to take anything like that on... Hence why I stood down as Senior Area Rep last year!

I can't argue with anything really said above as I agree. From a committee point of view it is extremely hard to get a quick agreement on most things, so much so that sometimes I'll make a suggestion, get one or two agreements and just go ahead and sort it out (the smaller changes or ideas we've had).

The idea is that if something needs doing or needs to be dealt with, it's posted on the committee forum and then its appointed to someone or we all work together to achieve that - this is the hard bit and it can be very tedious. There are very few of us that are actually fully active on the forum so I could spend an hour writing up a huge thread about things we need done, then get very little response due to people's schedules and home life etc. The old school crew have families now and careers, it's not like we're all 17 and live at home with mum still (I wish, I feel old now).

I'm fortunate that I can get online most days and have some input, but getting people to push things is the hard part. In frustration of not knowing what Miller was doing about ND (and us wrongly assuming it had all been arranged, our fault), I ended up just trying to pick things up. Ian found out very luckily in time that the booking hadn't been finalised, so he's picked that up, got it paid/confirmed and in writing etc a while back. The majority of us are also all inputting into the day and I'm just surrounded by lists of things to do. Turns out in the end that Miller has arranged a few of the things I had started looking at without mentioning anything so I have wasted quite a bit of time there...

In an ideal world, I'll post up a list and say this needs doing, this is the best person to do it and they say "great, I'll crack on". But we only have a few CMs with the ability to do that. We've unfortunately lost some very useful people who really had a great input, but even the newer people with fresh ideas will eventually lose momentum, it happens, that's life. Not making any excuses at all but it needs to be more of a team that communicates well, these are all things we can work on.

No reason we can't get a few more things sorted out this year, I've actually had a few ideas this evening inspired by this thread and even a couple on how to improve Pod/ND that we already have booked (will discuss in more detail when I've done a bit of research). Let me just confirm some of the finer points of ND with the chappies involved and then I'll start inputting more on the main forum on how we can move forward.

Thanks Steve for your comment, wish others realised that but unsure I'd even want to do it - it's thankless.

I really want to get ND/Pod out the way before we pull it all apart again (which I understand does need to be done), but we have so much on our plates at the minute that it's hard. No excuses but I come on here every day when I could be cracking on with various projects, very little social life currently. Need more willing hands, can't do this as the tiny team that we are.

Speaking of which, Adam has had a family bereavement today and I had one this past weekend so I'm dropping the Newsletter I've been writing for a few days to help with some things there. Life takes over **sigh** I will complete it early next week though.

Yeah, the tedious nature of trying to obtain a general agreement on something is one of the reasons I left the Committee, but that's all water under the bridge now.

So the shenanigans regarding Miller/Mallory payment is true after all then! :dearme: :(

I wrote a post all correct then deleted it by mistake :cry: will try again tomorrow.

Action need be taken, it has been stated. Help and commitment will be again offered by numerous people.

Regardless to what gets said on the boards action speak louder than words hope the club survives longer than my car... not going to sell it and always going to renew regardless of cost.

do poll for renewal price £10 £15 £20 see wether the hard core are prepared to pay a little more to help club.

rtoc gold posty tomorrow all spelt and wrote near correct.

So it would seem from the projects and restorations sections It's no longer about big power and racing, the majority seem to be returning to oe looks and useable, reliable power. National day should reflect what the club is about, people getting together shooting the breeze, generally having a laugh while sharing a common interest , keeping our cars running and on the road.

Obviously trackdays are losing there appeal, should we take a leaf from the vw boys and just have a swap meet type of show where you can wander round looking at peoples cars, talk about them and maybe find the part you need for your car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TNT Tricky Nicky

So it would seem from the projects and restorations sections It's no longer about big power and racing, the majority seem to be returning to oe looks and useable, reliable power. National day should reflect what the club is about, people getting together shooting the breeze, generally having a laugh while sharing a common interest , keeping our cars running and on the road.

Obviously trackdays are losing there appeal, should we take a leaf from the vw boys and just have a swap meet type of show where you can wander round looking at peoples cars, talk about them and maybe find the part you need for your car.

---

Tricky - I don't think that it's a majority thing that people are going all oe, I agree that there are a few oe jobs going on ATM, but I think there are equal numbers of FR / B18 / EFI engine swaps going on also with the aim of ultimate power. I think that it would be wrong to go along with the undercurrent of this thread that the five (or any other Renault for that matter) is packing up it's wee rubber booties and retiring gracefully. Mine will be going out in a ball of flames, barking and spitting at anyone who dares shake an oe stick at it:)

BTW - not that this is about me, but can someone award me a gold star for first ever thread reaching 2pgs.

Dawn - Firstly sorry to here the bad news you mentioned earlier, secondly it's good to here of someone from the committee speaking out about future events in such a +ve way. May I make a suggestion that before this years AGM that someone can list positions (on here) within the club and what their responsibilities are within those positions to enable potential candidates for new openings within the committee so that people have an idea of what they have to commit to.

https://www.rtoc.org/club/?show=committee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

https://www.rtoc.org/club/?show=committee

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Good work.

I probably didn't make myself clear in what I meant Andy and to be honest I don't want to take away from anybody's hard work and effort that is put into national day but do we need a trackday as our national day when we're not a track based club

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TNT Tricky Nicky

I probably didn't make myself clear in what I meant Andy and to be honest I don't want to take away from anybody's hard work and effort that is put into national day but do we need a trackday as our national day when we're not a track based club

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NO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Shoppers, read Ian's posts above yours - There's no reason why something like that can't be arranged for this year. There's plenty of BTCC events still to go this year, or failing that, as has been mentioned, a simple get-together in a field/campsite somewhere, with a bit of music, some beers, group bbq, and good laughs.

You & Steve were both sitting round the table at that pub near Billy's a few months back when I mentioned about the 'run to the sun' (Newquay) idea, and/or a weekend camping up in the Lakes - There's no reason why that still can't happen for this year.

If you want me to look into it, just say the word, but I don't want to be treading on Steve's toes...

---

I did a camp in the field last year, 1st weekend in aug... and 3 members turned up,desbite a list of nearly 50 people saying they were up for it... :( Rule of 3 + sum:laugh:

Perhaps people just dont like me anymore, or they have a life and cant be arsed to go far and do anything... (not having a dig at anyone or anything, just saying perhaps members dont actually have the time/money anymore)

But I am defo feeling a BTTC event this year if funds allow...

True, however I think some track action needs to be included in the schedule for one of the big summer meets, nothing wrong with beers/camping/having a laugh and im sure we wouldnt wanna meet up and polish our dumpvalves together! I think its been little bit taken for granted having Mallory and Santa Pod both for last few years but a credit to the commitee and club for pulling it out the bag year on year :) :agree:

iv read about this thread and a few people have said up the renewal.but what about opening a simple "pot"in the shop?and all the people that want to be involved with track days or the meets can donate what they want? least its optional? i think serious peolpe that are serious about the site will get involved and donate to help fund a day\weekend if the club is short.and if there isnt enough money raised for the event use what was donated to put towards another day or save till the next event.everyone can see it go up.im new to the site to but want to get involved. i really want a 5 but cant afford it yet.im driving a clio rsi but still want to be involved with this site till i can buy one.would be ashame to see this club go down hill as the members i have met on hear have helped me a treat!and theres some great characters.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian S

Or some one else who can do a smallish event like this, please do put yourself forward but only if you CAN and WILL do the research, lead the way, be there.

Steve it would be very good if you make this happen but based on your performance so far I just don't think you can. You're scant on the committee boards and abroad so often. It totally fails to cut it with me at least that you can't really get anything else done this year 'cause you getting married. Unless that is an example of how very very little free time you have that that really is the only thing you, or anyone else on your schedule, can/could arrange.

Steve, I had to enter a few events in the calendar, PPC in the Park to mention one big one, even after people had pointed out that the calendar was bare and even after I'd posted details and repeat mentioned. Is that because you didn't have time?

In which case, the club needs someone, or several people, with plenty of free time to organise events not just suggest something and ask a question in a thread. Organising is time consuming hard slog and often largely thankless. It needs inventiveness and also the motivation and drive to deliver an end result for people you don't know and may not even like. But for the greater good.

I'm not taking this moment to be unpleasant to you Steve, there is no emotion in what I'm saying here. But I'm overly frustrated by the lack an any action on the events front apart from what mainly Lee and Dawn, and to a tiny extent me, Ashy, anyone else, are doing. Good that you're going to be the liaison man all weekend at the Mallory event with Miller not doing it, that will no doubt be a big help.

---

What an ABSOLUTE ****ing cheek you have!
You know nothing about Steves life and ALL that's going on in it!
Saying he doesn't have time because he is getting married is beyond belief! This is completely not the case!
We have been to a few curry meets this year already, french car night at ace cafe a few times, will be attending the usual social events (POD, ND, French car show,Renault World Series) and maybe another european trip later in the year, so I think you will find nothing is stopping him attending events (putting money back in to the club), publicising this club and showing his support for it.

What events will you be attending this year Ian? I'm guessing none, as all the events we go to every year you are never at one of them! So how about you start showing your support and putting some money into the club by coming to ND, RWS etc instead of just ****ing moaning on here everyday because you've clearly nothing better to do!

Steve started to research ND for this year and as Mart has already said there was a big discussion at one of the curry meets. The next day it was all over the moderator boards that Miller had booked Mallory, so that was it all the ideas/discussions gone as a decision had been made! To say he is scant on the committee boards is a million miles from thr truth just because he doesn't key board war to everything like you doesn't mean he's not reading it all!

So what do you do for this club Ian other than moan and throw **** at others? As far as I can see absolutely nothing! Well you dont cut it with me either and everything I've written is as it's intended!
I think Dawno should take over Millers role she is perfect to fill it and far more dedicated, proactive, driven and knows exactly what the club needs.
If you've anymore to say I suggest you stop posting nasty comments on here and call steve the numbers on his profile!

:popcorn:

Sorry Millie but you're overwhelmingly wrong in every respect ( apart from Dawn's abilities )
Ian puts more effort into this club than anyone else .Ok he can be a bit blunt at times but it's all meant for the good of the club and his comments are valid .

This is rediculas.. lets not let this decend into the abyss... as much as id like it to as i cant stand some of the comments...

Lets move the disscusion forward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clee

Sorry Millie but you're overwhelmingly wrong in every respect ( apart from Dawn's abilities )
Ian puts more effort into this club than anyone else .Ok he can be a bit blunt at times but it's all meant for the good of the club and his comments are valid .

---

Please enlighten me.....
He isn't blunt he is personally being nasty and there's a time and place for that and the boards isn't it! If he wants to start **** flying then he is going to start receiving some home truths back. His comments about the club are valid as are everyones, but when they turn personal and rubbish is written that's a bit out of line.

I don't agree with your opionions as you don't agree with mine. I'm happy as I say for you to educate me though.

Dawn is the only person I can see put more effort into this club than anyone else, it's certainly not Ian! Dawn should be running it, it's exactly what the club needs and it needs more people like her!
What's good for the club....
Dawno for president! that's a good start, then maybe she can help salvage what's left!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by millie

Please enlighten me.....
He isn't blunt he is personally being nasty and there's a time and place for that and the boards isn't it! If he wants to start **** flying then he is going to start receiving some home truths back. His comments about the club are valid as are everyones, but when they turn personal and rubbish is written that's a bit out of line.

I don't agree with your opionions as you don't agree with mine. I'm happy as I say for you to educate me though.

Dawn is the only person I can see put more effort into this club than anyone else, it's certainly not Ian! Dawn should be running it, it's exactly what the club needs and it needs more people like her!
What's good for the club....
Dawno for president! that's a good start, then maybe she can help salvage what's left!

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Dawn GETS my vote. just throwing that out there...

im all for having dawn as leader because miller is never here, but dont you think she should be asked rather than pushed into the role.

Ok ive been a member on/off here for around 4 to 5 years, I think its way to cheap and would easy pay £70/100 as my membership is priceless for the advice i get off you guys on here! The car will slowly die away and there isnt much that can be done about that but apart from keep it fresh keep pushing what these cars are capable of! I agree with getting more members involved from newer turbo'd reno's! I think we need more local meets, We should be meeting at least once a month in our local areas....

If the club is about to implode can I get my £25 back please?








That is unless this is the general navel grazing that goes on in most forums.

Why is it all cloak & dagger about Miller? Is he still President or not??

You don't need enlightening Millie .
Steve and I know where we stand . Everyone is just trying to sort this years stuff out .
As for what you can see ,well ,you're the only judge of that .

I was wondering when the **** was going to hit the fan after Ian's post.without commenting on the content I think its totally counter productive to have to top brass knocking bits off each other on the boards. Also surely there should be a method which positions are filled/vacated other than some kind of putsch(?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TNT Tricky Nicky

So it would seem from the projects and restorations sections It's no longer about big power and racing, the majority seem to be returning to oe looks and useable, reliable power. National day should reflect what the club is about, people getting together shooting the breeze, generally having a laugh while sharing a common interest , keeping our cars running and on the road.

Obviously trackdays are losing there appeal, should we take a leaf from the vw boys and just have a swap meet type of show where you can wander round looking at peoples cars, talk about them and maybe find the part you need for your car.

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:agree::agree::agree:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mart

Why is it all cloak & dagger about Miller? Is he still President or not??

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Yes .
The point is that the title seems to be outweighing the role ....................It's not complicated .
Miller has not been able for whatever reason to contribute much this year .The rest of the CM's have had to rally round and fill the gap on National day . A form was not signed when it should have been .Ian sorted this out and the rest of us have since been busy organising the event .

http://www.wheresmillerproductions.c...=200&width=162

RIGHT THEN..... Lets draw a nice little line under all of this lot.
__________________________________________________ ______________

I've created a quick online survey to formally ask a some of the questions raised in this post & see what feedback we can gain?

Please can you click on THIS LINK to fill in the questionairre?

The password to start is rtoc (lower case)

I have hidden the results & will release them after the survey has finished for all to see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRP

http://www.wheresmillerproductions.c...=200&width=162

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Looks like he got bored of the **** talking and went .................................................. .............................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhEzkN3fkpE

• Car boot sale or swaps, (parts only, old porn mags, the wife etc), beer and camping

• RTOC rolling road day shoot out (organised by the club) beer and camping

• Camping, beer and animal fiddling (with family, kids activities, bouncy castle and dodgems etc)

• Rtoc go kartin (organised by the club) beer and food could be over 2 days.

• Several AGM's throughout the year followed by beer and food.

Just some of my ideas, all could be reasonably cheap for the club, and could alternate with a track day every other year.:agree:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

• Car boot sale or swaps, (parts only, old porn mags, the wife etc), beer and camping

• RTOC rolling road day shoot out (organised by the club) beer and camping

• Camping, beer and animal fiddling (with family, kids activities, bouncy castle and dodgems etc)

• Rtoc go kartin (organised by the club) beer and food could be over 2 days.

• Several AGM's throughout the year followed by beer and food.

Just some of my ideas, all could be reasonably cheap for the club, and could alternate with a track day every other year.:agree:

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I hope there is a few local events this year, go carting, r/r day etc :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millie

Saying he doesn't have time because he is getting married...This is completely not the case!

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So why has he not organised any(?) events? Why is it that Lee and Dawn are organising the ND? Why is it that I had to enter events to the calender? In fact, incredibly, after several weeks or more of being on the committee, Steve asked was there an email address for events!!!! I'd spent quite a bit of time giving him all the info when he was appointed and he'd not collected ANY club events emails. I wasn't just me that was aghast. If it were not for Ashy asking about the ND in Jan there possibly wouldn't be one. That's when we contacted Miller to find out if he'd done anything about it and was told months earlier he'd asked Steve to do it. Why is it that you're taking Steves lack of involvement with the committee personally? It plain for all to see that you've not got a clue what you're talking about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millie

We have been to a few curry meets, ace cafe, will be attending the usual social events

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Gee whiz you don't get it at all. We want someone to ORGANISE OFFICIAL RTOC EVENTS all over the UK, and loads of them, not just turn up and join in with a few!!! Or for that matter only organise the ones you want to go to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millie

What events will you be attending this year Ian?

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I'm not the events organiser. My work as Treasurer is done from home, making sure sufficient money is where is needs to be to pay the various bills. If we get credit card facilities it'll be me that spends hours and hours making it happen. My work as web server, email server, website and general infrastructure overseer is done from home. I also organise the advertising get the designs done and liaise with the magazines. Fed them a few mini feature items for publication. I also take and deal with various member and non member enquiries about various aspects or problems. I also poke around in the shop from time to time and wrote and re-list the eBay ad for the dials, made the fuller dials fitting guide that in the articles section, previously wrote nearly 30 articles, update the many various articles. Spent a week or more 'properly' doing the latest buyers guide after Steves good start. Sadly they published the rough draught that Steve sent them instead of the final version. The list goes on and on. And I've scaled back a lot in the last couple of years mainly due to on-going bad health problems. Many of these mentioned items individually are trivialities, but together they add up and are on-going. It might be the case that I put more time in per month, and maybe even some weeks, that Steve has so far with official business since he's been on the committee. It's fair to say though that were I not un-well I would expect to have a lot less time available for this club than I've had. I'm one of those people who naturally notice things that need doing and are being left and tend to do them myself. I've been trying to do less for this club in recent times as I need to do more for myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millie

I'm guessing none

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I've put in 60 hours per week, for weeks or even months at a time for this club in the past. And I'm not talking about going to some social events. It laughable to say that's how you're helping the club out at management level, just by turning up to a few socials. :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millie

Steve started to research ND

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Steve's input the to committee regarding this was to say he'd been to the curry night with Mart, Bill, Penfold, etc and they suggested joining with in someone else' trackday. That was done in 2007 with the FCS and we got a lot of complaints that members wanted their own exclusive day. The committee in general felt that was what they still wanted and should be done this year. By extreme contrast, when Miller first got the job in 2006, he phoned all the tracks, examined all the options, amassed data and presented me and then other club officers and then the new committee, that I and he had just formed, with all that data tabulated, high lighted, costs, benefits, disadvantages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by millie

So what do you do for this club... As far as I can see absolutely nothing!

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As far as the inner machinations of the RTOC goes, you're a clueless ignorant bystander who's now chosen to lock horns with someone who's been a leading figure, and at times a 'rock', at the core of running this club for nearly 10 years. Sometimes a committee members spouse does know what goes due to the depth of their partners involvement. This is evidently not the case here. I for one expected you'd have seen the committee boards and how active I am on there, for years it's been just about the only place I post and am doing so nearly every day. In a way it's a shame the members don't get to see that area of the club as an educated understanding of who does what over the last 4 1/2 years at least would then be possible and I'm not talking about just myself but in general. There are other key workers who are holding things together which is not apparent from members forums.

I'd still be very happy for Steve to delivery the goods regarding organising 'official' events and small local ones. We all want him to but it's May now and it's just not happening. I don't know why. He cites lack of time. On the plus site he organised the orange dials group buy, though that was motivated by his own need, and non official RTOC Nurburgring trip(s) but again motivated by his own need. He did start the buyers guide and I've seen some thread asking members who wants to attend something but it's just too little. Several committee have made it plain they were very disappointed with the lack of events organised. Even if only 5 members turn up, as least it's an organised club presence rather than just those 5 parking in the out field and being spectators.

Then Enfield Motor Pageant local to me is ideal for concourse and interesting old cars like this club is brimming with and has many clubs there. There was some of Renault club there last time I went with cars from the 50's with an early C1J type engine. A weekend event, with auto jumble, traders, shows but no RTOC. There are shows like this all over the UK. This club has evidently withered badly in the last two years. It needs events organiser(s) to take it places and make other people know it exists. Steve has the car but it seems not the time.

As far as talking bluntly goes, yes I'm aware of my plain speaking, and for the larger part, lack of ability to couch it so as to not offend some peoples stunted and or mixed up emotions. People who know me, however, know that I'm usually not being malicious but far from that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by REBEL GT TURBO

I think we need more local meets, We should be meeting at least once a month in our local areas....

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I wonder how much the lack of well organised area reps / area members mapping / search for the last three years has had a negative impact?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mart

Why is it all cloak & dagger about Miller? Is he still President or not??

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The fact is, we don't know. Sounds slack but his lack of being ND organiser is what is felt the most.

The 'President' role is almost a name only thing. Just a paper figurehead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoolio

I was wondering when the **** was going to hit the fan after Ian's post.without commenting on the content I think its totally counter productive to have to top brass knocking bits off each other on the boards. Also surely there should be a method which positions are filled/vacated other than some kind of putsch(?)

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Sometimes things just need to be brought out into the open. It's the members club after and how else will they know that cracks have appeared and the few working committee are straining. We keep saying we need more support but members think they see that all is fine.

The club to a greater extent revolves around the website and we've have problems for years regaining the features the old site had. I should point out that the old site was lost partly due to apathy from so many of the committee. Just not interested until it went belly up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Steve's input the to committee regarding this was to say he'd been to the curry night with Mart, Bill, Penfold, etc and they suggested joining with in someone else' trackday

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Just for clarification, it wasn't a case of us joining in with another club's (or even joe public) trackday. It was more so that we purchase all the places for a given trackday from one of the many trackday companies out there (BookaTrack, EasyTrack, Circuit Days, Track-action Online, etc etc), sell the places to rtoc members, which will still then effectively make it an rtoc-only event/trackday, but at a cheaper cost to what 'hiring' Mallory costs us.

As a bonus, that then opens up the possibility of holding the event/National Day at any UK trackday location, rather than Mallory.

Of course, it comes with a risk that if we didn't end up selling a good majority of the tickets, we'd be somewhat out of pocket, but perhaps a 'sale or return' scheme could be implemented with the trackday company, or we offer any left-over spaces to other clubs/joe public.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

The fact is, we don't know. Sounds slack but his lack of being ND organiser is what is felt the most.

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:agree:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

The 'President' role is almost a name only thing. Just a paper figurehead

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On the basis of that, and Miller's lack of interest (or whatever it is) these days, maybe doing away with the President title would be for the best, and just have the Committee running the show/being the figurehead(s) of the club.

Edit: That also then solves the future headache of who would fill his role/the title should he decide to stand down.

That's not quite true Ian, I may not post a lot but I am on here a lot and a quick scan of the events section is easy to see that it is a little "sparse" and anyone with a brain can read between the lines and see that things are being held together by a few people I just think seeing/reading some of this stuff is even more damaging to slightly bruised morale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by car.crash

im all for having dawn as leader because miller is never here, but dont you think she should be asked rather than pushed into the role.

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There isn't a role to be pushed into. I was thinking we should delete that title anyway. Perhaps replace it with Infrastructure Manager. But that task is mainly mine due to no-one else taking on those aspects, some parts spread over to other people. No-one really has time to be a central overall manager, running more or less everything. Even if they don't start out they way they'll soon find they are the only person doing it.

You can't task a committee member with something and fire them if they don't do it because they are not paid workers and we are under staffed as it is and there is not a queue to be on the committee.

Over the years I asked some outspoken or keen members to just sit on the committee, not even be an officer and they mostly decline stating they can't spare the time. Maybe meaning can't take the risk of once there, being further inveigled and having to give time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mart

Just for clarification, it wasn't a case of us joining in with another club's (or even joe public) trackday. It was more so that we purchase all the places for a given trackday from one of the many trackday companies out there (BookaTrack, EasyTrack, Circuit Days, Track-action Online, etc etc), sell the places to rtoc members, which will still then effectively make it an rtoc-only event/trackday, but at a cheaper cost to what 'hiring' Mallory costs us.

As a bonus, that then opens up the possibility of holding the event/National Day at any UK trackday location, rather than Mallory.

Of course, it comes with a risk that if we didn't end up selling a good majority of the tickets, we'd be somewhat out of pocket, but perhaps a 'sale or return' scheme could be implemented with the trackday company, or we offer any left-over spaces to other clubs/joe public.

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I see. When put like that it does seem like a good way. Ironically, TAOL are managing the RTOC Mallory event anyway.

And we are hoping that other clubs do join in so the financial loss in mitigated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoolio

I just think seeing/reading some of this stuff is even more damaging to slightly bruised morale.

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Well, that is a possibility but the thread is producing some goods from the wider audience.

Just out of interest and for my own benefit really what are the exact figures on membership? Not renewals but how many members does the club have as of now...

Cheers in advance :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lomo

what are the exact figures on membership?

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As per a few posts earlier, as far as we can tell, about 525 paid members. That's new and old combined.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

As per a few posts earlier, as far as we can tell, about 525 paid members. That's new and old combined.

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Cheers Ian :)

As far as you can tell? Is there no definite number kept?

My own view on this is that things have gotten a little to big for what needs catering for. Perhaps the club should scale back a little. Strip things down and rebuild so to speak.

I cant help feeling that when things were a little bit smaller they were managed better and run properly..There seems to be alot of people with titles and very little being done? At this point in time most things in life are having to make cut backs so perhaps RTOC should start thinking along the same lines...

One thing I have learnt in business is that theres no such thing as a bad army...

Maybe a solution is to have several localised events co-ordinations arranging events that they themselves want to attend, thereby having the motivation to do so.

That way no-one is expecting one overall person to do more than they can or want to.

Maybe area reps could be some of those people, but not necessarily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Maybe a solution is to have several localised events co-ordinations arranging events that they themselves want to attend, thereby having the motivation to do so.

That way no-one is expecting one overall person to do more than they can or want to.

Maybe area reps could be some of those people, but not necessarily.

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I thought generally that WAS the role of area reps anyway? That's how I've always taken my role to be.

Re membership numbers - wow that's seriously dropped! :eek: I remember not so long ago the club had 1000+ paid members. Surely the £25 joining fee needs to reviewed again? :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex

Surely the £25 joining fee needs to reviewed again? :confused:

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I think the joining fee/renewal fee should be £10. However, if someone's joining purely to sell a car/parts, then i think we'd be silly to let them get away with the £15 saving (look at the price of autotrader adverts).

Perhaps we should consider 2 different membership levels to encourage genuine owners to join up cheaply?

True but not at the detriment of potentially loosing 500+ members @ £10 a pop. If people want to join to sell parts the that could work to the clubs advantage as certain items become rare/hard to get. The only problem being we don't know any of these people selling the parts (not that being a club member assures buyers of anything!:scared:)

I'm sure something could be done to control that kind of spamming though.....:confused:

Yeah it's a difficult one.

I argued against the £25 joining fee.

It did cause a sharp drop in new members from about 600 a year to about 400 a year.

But renewals went up from 400 to 600.

The overall income remained about the same.

I've forgotten what the fees were before then.

Can anyone remember if it was two tier?

Our income has dropped from about £15000 to about £7500.

How can we differentiate new members who want to just advertise from those who want to used the boards, articles, contacts, Wizard and gain the knowledge?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GordonB

I think the joining fee/renewal fee should be £10. However, if someone's joining purely to sell a car/parts, then i think we'd be silly to let them get away with the £15 saving (look at the price of autotrader adverts).

Perhaps we should consider 2 different membership levels to encourage genuine owners to join up cheaply?

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This is the type of thing the club should be looking at! Genuine Owners...

I do feel the joining up policy should be tighter controlled....This is a non profit organisation so money isn't everything... Id rather have a club with 300 people in of which 250+ are happy. At least this way it limits the club to how much they can spend on possible venues for the likes of National Day knowing the venue will be filled and of an ample size! In theory the club would be getting more for its money...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Yeah it's a difficult one.

I argued against the £25 joining fee.

It did cause a sharp drop in new members from about 600 a year to about 400 a year.

But renewals went up from 400 to 600.

The overall income remained about the same.

I've forgotten what the fees were before then.

Can anyone remember if it was two tier?

Our income has dropped from about £15000 to about £7500.

How can we differentiate new members who want to just advertise from those who want to used the boards, articles, contacts, Wizard and gain the knowledge?

---

Have a guest classified section....With that being the only area of the site they are able to view and post in....Perhaps charge them for the advert...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lomo

Have a guest classified section....With that being the only area of the site they are able to view and post in....Perhaps charge them for the advert...

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More site functionality, which when we don't have a web developer for is a tall order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GordonB

Perhaps we should consider 2 different membership levels to encourage genuine owners to join up cheaply?

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Do you mean like charging just for 'membership' of the classifieds and seperate fee for overall membership?

The problem there is that the overall should be higher.

But we want the classifieds to be higher.

But that means people will join overall for the cheaper fee so they can just use the classifieds.

We don't know exactly how many people join just for the classifieds to sell their car.

So if it was £10 to join and an extra £15 to use the classifieds, members would soon complain about the frustration of not wanting to may £15 to sell some small item.

It's it's a large number of the 250 new members who just join to sell, then at £15 instead of £25 the club would be worse off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GordonB

More site functionality, which when we don't have a web developer for is a tall order.

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There isn't a member that could help the club with this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Do you mean like charging just for 'membership' of the classifieds and seperate fee for overall membership?

The problem there is that the overall should be higher.

But we want the classifieds to be higher.

But that means people will join overall for the cheaper fee so they can just use the classifieds.

We don't know exactly how many people join just for the classifieds to sell their car.

So if it was £10 to join and an extra £15 to use the classifieds, members would soon complain about the frustration of not wanting to may £15 to sell some small item.

It's it's a large number of the 250 new members who just join to sell, then at £15 instead of £25 the club would be worse off.

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I haven't got a fully formed thought about this, but i reckon;

Silver Membership £10
Full access to the site but not to the Sell boards in classifieds.

Gold Membership £25
Full access to the site and classifieds
Gets awarded to members for free on their first renewal

I think this is reasonable, as if you want to make money from the clubs members then you should either be an actively renewing member or pay the initial premium.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lomo

There isn't a member that could help the club with this?

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Perhaps.
I've done it previously, but can't commit to doing it again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GordonB

I haven't got a fully formed thought about this, but i reckon;

Silver Membership £10
Full access to the site but not to the Sell boards in classifieds.

Gold Membership £25
Full access to the site and classifieds
Gets awarded to members for free on their first renewal

I think this is reasonable, as if you want to make money from the clubs members then you should either be an actively renewing member or pay the initial premium.

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This sounds spot on to me,

I think it should just be £10 for both joining and renewing. Any blatant spamming of the classifdes should just be deleted by the mods and possible action taken against the individual. That seems simple enough and I'm sure it can't be too much work? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex

I think it should just be £10 for both joining and renewing. Any blatant spamming of the classifdes should just be deleted by the mods and possible action taken against the individual. That seems simple enough and I'm sure it can't be too much work? :)

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I guess we'll see what the results of that questionaire is... unless of course it just got buried in this thread and no one but me has answered it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex

spamming of the classifdes should just be deleted

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That's what happens now and has been for maybe 8 months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian S

I wonder how much the lack of well organised area reps / area members mapping / search for the last three years has had a negative impact?

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Maybe some of the people that genuinly wanted to help out should not have been snubbed when decicions were made.. maybe everything would have been better...

some reps never show there faces others are very helpful and get things done and arranged.

James5 for example credit to the club, but who else is arranging and sorting things, its from the small meets that peoople get to know people.. and from there things grow and grow.... another top member is phil5t he bothers to do a monthly meet...

more people like these chaps is what is required!

but the whole decicion making process on this club is jank, to secretive and no info passed on till decions have been made, and in a few cases bad ones

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JRP

but the whole decicion making process on this club is jank, to secretive and no info passed on till decions have been made, and in a few cases bad ones

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Hence this being public now.

But it's normal for a management team to make executive decision's. That's what they're there for. Nothing would get done if the whole club had to vote and it be more then 51% agreement, or whatever, for every small item. And we know from past experience that only a few percent would be bothered to.

I know from keep asking outspoken people to join in that they just don't want to be part of the process. And further, it a real problem if there are loudmouths who are all talk and no action in a committee. It's very destructive. They just love to snipe and p1ss of the workers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GordonB

I guess we'll see what the results of that questionaire is... unless of course it just got buried in this thread and no one but me has answered it.

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Such an item really should be in it's own sticky locked thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

Such an item really should be in it's own sticky locked thread.

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You mean this post then

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=22290

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian S

So why has he not organised any(?) events? Why is it that Lee and Dawn are organising the ND? Why is it that I had to enter events to the calender? In fact, incredibly, after several weeks or more of being on the committee, Steve asked was there an email address for events!!!! I'd spent quite a bit of time giving him all the info when he was appointed and he'd not collected ANY club events emails. I wasn't just me that was aghast. If it were not for Ashy asking about the ND in Jan there possibly wouldn't be one. That's when we contacted Miller to find out if he'd done anything about it and was told months earlier he'd asked Steve to do it. Why is it that you're taking Steves lack of involvement with the committee personally? It plain for all to see that you've not got a clue what you're talking about.
Gee whiz you don't get it at all. We want someone to ORGANISE OFFICIAL RTOC EVENTS all over the UK, and loads of them, not just turn up and join in with a few!!! Or for that matter only organise the ones you want to go to.

I'm not the events organiser. My work as Treasurer is done from home, making sure sufficient money is where is needs to be to pay the various bills. If we get credit card facilities it'll be me that spends hours and hours making it happen. My work as web server, email server, website and general infrastructure overseer is done from home. I also organise the advertising get the designs done and liaise with the magazines. Fed them a few mini feature items for publication. I also take and deal with various member and non member enquiries about various aspects or problems. I also poke around in the shop from time to time and wrote and re-list the eBay ad for the dials, made the fuller dials fitting guide that in the articles section, previously wrote nearly 30 articles, update the many various articles. Spent a week or more 'properly' doing the latest buyers guide after Steves good start. Sadly they published the rough draught that Steve sent them instead of the final version. The list goes on and on. And I've scaled back a lot in the last couple of years mainly due to on-going bad health problems. Many of these mentioned items individually are trivialities, but together they add up and are on-going. It might be the case that I put more time in per month, and maybe even some weeks, that Steve has so far with official business since he's been on the committee. It's fair to say though that were I not un-well I would expect to have a lot less time available for this club than I've had. I'm one of those people who naturally notice things that need doing and are being left and tend to do them myself. I've been trying to do less for this club in recent times as I need to do more for myself.

I've put in 60 hours per week, for weeks or even months at a time for this club in the past. And I'm not talking about going to some social events. It laughable to say that's how you're helping the club out at management level, just by turning up to a few socials. :laugh:

Steve's input the to committee regarding this was to say he'd been to the curry night with Mart, Bill, Penfold, etc and they suggested joining with in someone else' trackday. That was done in 2007 with the FCS and we got a lot of complaints that members wanted their own exclusive day. The committee in general felt that was what they still wanted and should be done this year. By extreme contrast, when Miller first got the job in 2006, he phoned all the tracks, examined all the options, amassed data and presented me and then other club officers and then the new committee, that I and he had just formed, with all that data tabulated, high lighted, costs, benefits, disadvantages.

As far as the inner machinations of the RTOC goes, you're a clueless ignorant bystander who's now chosen to lock horns with someone who's been a leading figure, and at times a 'rock', at the core of running this club for nearly 10 years. Sometimes a committee members spouse does know what goes due to the depth of their partners involvement. This is evidently not the case here. I for one expected you'd have seen the committee boards and how active I am on there, for years it's been just about the only place I post and am doing so nearly every day. In a way it's a shame the members don't get to see that area of the club as an educated understanding of who does what over the last 4 1/2 years at least would then be possible and I'm not talking about just myself but in general. There are other key workers who are holding things together which is not apparent from members forums.

I'd still be very happy for Steve to delivery the goods regarding organising 'official' events and small local ones. We all want him to but it's May now and it's just not happening. I don't know why. He cites lack of time. On the plus site he organised the orange dials group buy, though that was motivated by his own need, and non official RTOC Nurburgring trip(s) but again motivated by his own need. He did start the buyers guide and I've seen some thread asking members who wants to attend something but it's just too little. Several committee have made it plain they were very disappointed with the lack of events organised. Even if only 5 members turn up, as least it's an organised club presence rather than just those 5 parking in the out field and being spectators.

Then Enfield Motor Pageant local to me is ideal for concourse and interesting old cars like this club is brimming with and has many clubs there. There was some of Renault club there last time I went with cars from the 50's with an early C1J type engine. A weekend event, with auto jumble, traders, shows but no RTOC. There are shows like this all over the UK. This club has evidently withered badly in the last two years. It needs events organiser(s) to take it places and make other people know it exists. Steve has the car but it seems not the time.

As far as talking bluntly goes, yes I'm aware of my plain speaking, and for the larger part, lack of ability to couch it so as to not offend some peoples stunted and or mixed up emotions. People who know me, however, know that I'm usually not being malicious but far from that.

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Wow! you really do have too much time on your hands! You must have been an A* pupil at school for essay writing in the Art of moaning! You had your say in your first post, as I said RING steve instead of writing your bull**** essays on here!!
but no a keyboard war is your thing because you're such a COWARD!!!

As for memers attending events if you keep driving them away (as the decline in membership over the years keeps showing) there won't be a club to organise events for. This then reduces the budgets ffurther for the events you can attend!

I suggest you make the boards for RTOC and not your personal vendettas when you can clearly call and speak to the person in question. That might be a good start for the club. Why don't you focus you're moaning energys into something positive.

I do see the committee boards & see all your moaning on there as well! that's not putting in constructive time is it? & after reading your essay I still don't actually see what you do other than a bit of this & that here & there when you

What's the deadline to organise ALL RTOC EVENTS ALL OVER THE UK? becuase as I see if when are only in May there's loads of time to organise a lot of things? What's the problem?

This is the last I'm saying on the matter I look forward to speaking to you at the AGM at ND and seeing you at all the events this year!

I'm sure this thread was meant to be productive ... The senior members aren't exactly adding anything positive, all you have done is slag each other for 2 days now ! Don't know about anyone else but I'm a new member and does slightly tarnish my enthusiasm for national day!

If you feel need to knock lumps out of each other, as millie said do it on the phone of get yourself in a carpark and sort it out ! As mentioned I fairly new to the club and joined it to meet up with like minded people & get advise ... If I wanted to see this crap could happily go on facebook.

You want to sell more tickets for national day & for the club ... Not a good advertisement :(

Gibbo

If you lot are going to carry on bickering in this way do it via pm's or phone calls AND THEN GROW UP!
If you think new members are impressed by this then you are wrong, its getting too personal and petty.
I won't be renewing next year.
Matt@Coderedmotorsports. (formally known as Lucky).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gibbo69

I'm sure this thread was meant to be productive ... The senior members aren't exactly adding anything positive, all you have done is slag each other for 2 days now ! Don't know about anyone else but I'm a new member and does slightly tarnish my enthusiasm for national day!

If you feel need to knock lumps out of each other, as millie said do it on the phone of get yourself in a carpark and sort it out ! As mentioned I fairly new to the club and joined it to meet up with like minded people & get advise ... If I wanted to see this crap could happily go on facebook.

You want to sell more tickets for national day & for the club ... Not a good advertisement :(

Gibbo

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I'm sorry you have seen this Gibbo & I hope you see the truly friendly side of the club at the National Day next month?

I tried to draw a line under all of this yesterday & created the survey to move this forwards rather than just keep talking about everything.

I'm going to lock this thread now as I think it's served it's time & can be tomorrow's archive.

millie
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Dawn is the only person I can see put more effort into this club than anyone else, it's certainly not Ian! Dawn should be running it, it's exactly what the club needs and it needs more people like her!
What's good for the club....
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Millie, please don't take this the wrong way but to the more cool headed amongst us it is incredibly evident that you were/are letting emotion get in the way of your better judgment. That I understand, it happens a lot, I'm not criticising.

But, to make a statement like that tells me that you really don't know what happens behind the scenes. And thats fine, most people don't, and those that are doing the work don't ask for credit and so it doesn't come to light. So it's wholey unfair of you to cast statements like that on a public forum when you don't have (and you know you don't have) the facts.

BS aside, personal aligences aside, the blunt and gods honest truth is that this club would have vanished off the face of the earth if it was not for Ian's continued involvement. For christ sake, it would have vanished only last month if Ian did not spend hours of his own time securing a replacement web server when the old one maxed out and was hacked again. And for what ? To host this nonsence ? Give me a break.

There just ISNT sufficient interest from anyone else to keep the club going. Me included. I spent an inordinate amount of time and effort resurecting this website and membership database in 2008 and throughout that period Ian was the only person with any measurable input with regard to it's direction. Without that I would not have been able to work. Unfortunately I don't have the enthusiasm or time to do it anymore. Ian is now working hard to find an external, paid replacement for me.

Now, I know what some people will be thinking; "Ah but, if Ian or another CM doesn't do a job then someone else will step in and do it instead". Wrong. Time and time and time and time again it is proven not to be the case. Things, huge things have gone over looked because the propper person for the job failed to do it.

Please people, before you post anything in a topic like this, take some time to think rationally about what you're about to say otherwise you might find yourself very much in the wrong and regretting what you've said. I think some apologies are in order here.

Finally, it's a miricle that I was able to muster the enthusiasm to write this post and it's fair to say I won't be reading or replying to anything else on the matter. I'm off to get covered in oil and clutch fluid, which is much more fun than this. Thankfully not everyone has the same outlook as me and there are still a small handfull of people that are willing to sacrifice their spare time to keep this place going. My advise: don't alienate them.