VNT Size and Set up

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13-01-2011, 05:11
Woznaldo

VNT Size and Set up

What size VNTs are people using and how are they controlling the boost spike problems that are sometimes associated to fitting these turbos?

The obvious but potentially more complicated solution is to fit an external wastegate but, need modification to the exhaust manifold and turbo down pipe.

I have a GT2260V from an Iveco Daily that I got years ago with the intent of going down this road but not sure if it's big enough? The comp wheel has an inducer of 41.5mm and an exducer of 60mm (ish figures).
13-01-2011, 06:50
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Found this info on a TDI forum which is useful for those looking to go down the VNT route.

***************GT25****************
Renault
Vel Satis dCi 3.0L D P9X701 02- GT2559V
Espace dCi 3.0L D P9X701 03- GT2559V
Saab
9-5 TiD - 176HP 3.0L D 6DE1 02- GT2559V
Opel
Vectra CDTi - 174HP 3.0L D Y30DT 03- GT2559V
Signum TDi - 176HP 3.0L D Y30DT 03- GT2559V
Bmw
730d 3.0L D M57 03- GTV2556V G 454191-0001/3/4/5/6/7/10E 2247691F/2248907G
530d - 184HP 2.9L D M57 99-03 GTV2556V G 454191-0001/3/4/5/6/7/10E 2247691F/2248907G
***************GT23*****************
MB
E320 - 195HP 3.2L D OM613961 99-01 GT2359V
E320 - 204HP 3.2L D 03- GT2359V
S320 - 195HP 3.2L D OM613961 99-02 GT2359V
Toyota
Landcruiser D-4D 4.2L D 02- GT2359V
***************GT22*****************
Alfa
156 JTD - 136HP 2.4L D 841C.000 01- GT2256V G 710811-0001/2E 46769104
156 JTD - 175HP 2.4L D 841G.000 03- GT2256V G 717661-0001E 46808717/55182571
166 JTD - 136HP 2.4L D 841C.000 01- GT2256V G 710812-0001E 46767677
166 JTD - 175HP 2.4L D 841G.000 03- GT2256V G 717661-0001E 46808717/55182571
Bmw
330d - 184HP 2.9L D M57 00-04 GT22556V G 704361-0004/5/6E 2248834E/2249951
530d 2.9L D 03- GT22V G 742730-0003E 11657790308
X5 2.9L D 03-04 GT2260V G 742417-0001E 7791044E
X5 2.9L D 04- GT2260V G 753392-0001E 7791046F
FIAT IVECO
Daily III - 135HP 2.8L D 8140.43K.4000 00-04 GT2256V G 707114-0001E 500379251
Daily III - 140HP 2.8L D 8140.43K.4000 04- GT2256V G 751758-0001E 500379251
Iveco
Euro Cargo 75E 3.9L 00 GT2259S G 702989-0003E 4801639
FORD
Ranger 2.8L D 02- GT2256V G 724652-0001E 79517
JEEP
Grand Cherokee - 163HP 2.7L D ENF 01-05 GT2256V G 715568-0001/2E A6650960099
LANCIA
Aurelia 2.4L D 841C.000 01- GT2256V G 710812-0001E 46767677
Lybra 2.4L D 841C.000 01- GT2256V G 710811-0001/2E 46769104
Lybra JTD 2.4L D 839A6.000 01- GT2256V G 716626-0001E 46799071
LAND ROVER
Range Rover Td6 2.9L D M57D 02- GT2256V G 712541-0001/2/3E 7785838
MB
C270 - 170HP 2.7L D OM612962 01- GT2256V G 711009-0001E A6110960999
E270 - 163HP 2.7L D OM612961 00-02 GT2256V G 709837-0001E A6120960299
E270 - 177HP 2.7L D OM612961 02- GT2256V G 715910-0001/2E A6120960599
E320 - 195HP 3.2L D OM613961 00-03 GT2259V G 711017-0001/2E A6130960299
S320 - 195HP 3.2L D OM613961 00-02 GT2259V G 711017-0001/2E A6130960299
M270 - 163HP 2.7L D OM612963 00-05 GT2256V G 709837-0001E A6120960299
Sprinter Van 2.7L D OM612 00- GT2256V G 709838-0001/3/4E A6120960399
Sprinter Van 216/316/416/616CDI 2.7L D OM612 04- GT2256V G 709838-0005E A6120960399 156BHP
Nissan
L35 Light Truck 01 GT2252S G 709693-0001E 14411-69T60
Trade 3.0L 96 GT2252S G 452187-0001/3/6E 14411-69T00
Renault
Mascotte - 140HP 2.8L D 8140.43K.4000 00-04 GT2256V G 707114-0001E 500379251
Mascotte - 140HP 2.8L D 8140.43K.4000 04- GT2256V G 751758-0001E 500379251
VW
T4 Bus 2.5L D AHY 98- GT2252V G 454192-0001/5E 074145703E
T4 Bus 2.5L D AVG 01- GT2252V G 454192-0002/6E 074145703G
13-01-2011, 11:20
markey b

Re: VNT Size and Set up

probably wrong here, but i think the ones most people use are based on the 2.6 v6 tdi vag engine?
13-01-2011, 12:24
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

I've been trawling through the tdiclub forums and it would seem there are a few different versions of the GT2260V used by BMW, AUDI, Mercedes to name a few.

The best is the GTB2260VK used on 3.0TDI engines. The GTB means it's third generation tech, using better materials for both comp and turbine wheels. the K just means it uses electronic actuation instead of the normal mechanical type.

The one I've got has a T25 exhaust inlet so, it bolts straight up to the std manifold. The turbine outlet is a one off size v-band that is pretty much useless as it is without the other half off an Iveco Daily. VW guys that have used them have welded on a std type V-band, which makes things a lot easier.

From what I can gather, it should be good for 200+ bhp but, I don't know if that will translate to the same on a C1J? There aren't any comp maps readily available either.
13-01-2011, 13:24
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by markey b

probably wrong here, but i think the ones most people use are based on the 2.6 v6 tdi vag engine?

I have in the past converted a few Audi 2.5 v6 TDI VNT turbo's the reason I have gone for this is down the flange type that will fit the GTT manifold also advices from Adam L helped with choice. The Audi model used was the GT2052v item.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...T/IMG_5248.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...T/IMG_5272.jpg

on an old C1J engine during fitment setup

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...T/IMG_5246.jpg

My turbo developments VNT uses the same exhaust housing as the above mentioned Audi VNT, but my compressor housing is a cossie T3 and the wheels is a 50 or 55mm trim I can't remember now and I am not sure if the rear wheel is bigger or the same either

My Turbo developments VNT

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...T/IMG_2672.jpg
13-01-2011, 20:44
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Thanks for the pics James. :agree:

How do you control boost spiking?
13-01-2011, 21:18
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Here's what my turbine outlet looks like:

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...2260VFoto2.jpg

Here's a possible solution (although done on a different GT2260V):

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...VKbuild008.jpg
13-01-2011, 21:44
Tony Walker

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Nicely welded, but if you do attempt this, get the turbine and exhaust housing checked afterwards. I managed to warp a housing once heating it up to get a stud out :sad2: lol admittedly it was localised, but its going to be difficult to heat the whole thing while welding?
13-01-2011, 21:57
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woznaldo

Thanks for the pics James. :agree:

How do you control boost spiking?

Your welcome I have loads of pics:laugh:

Took me ages to get the spike to only 1psi which was just a case of alot of playing infact took me months to get the spike to only 3psi then I managed to get it to only 1psi spike just by playing with the actuator arm length and the vane control grub screw, I recently purchased an AEM Tru boost controller and that has managed to get rid of my spike altogether with no playing with the vnt.
15-01-2011, 13:35
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

I like the look of the AEM Tru Boost and the exchange rates (A$:US$) are looking very favourable at the moment. Turbosmart's Eboost2 also looks the shizzle but has way more features than I'd ever need and at A$795, it's freakin expensive.

The obvious problem for me at the moment, is working out what the std actuator pressure is set at?

The GT2260V has a pt no of: 753959-0 with an Iveco OEM pt no of: 504093025C

The actuator has the pt no: 434953-121

It was fitted to the 2005 Iveco Daily 3.0D HPI

Any good sources appreciated.
15-01-2011, 15:13
philg

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by James5

Your welcome I have loads of pics:laugh:

, I recently purchased an AEM Tru boost controller and that has managed to get rid of my spike altogether with no playing with the vnt.

Flash git :)
15-01-2011, 17:39
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by philg

Flash git :)

:D :cooter:
16-01-2011, 01:29
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

James, why have you changed actuators between the Audi and the TD Audi Hybrid?
16-01-2011, 09:45
TrixNFlix

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woznaldo

James, why have you changed actuators between the Audi and the TD Audi Hybrid?

If I remember correctly the audi actuators work on vacuum.
16-01-2011, 10:39
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrixNFlix

If I remember correctly the audi actuators work on vacuum.

:agree: I changed the Audi one in the end for a standard T2 jobbie for exactly the reason Andy said.

When the vnt is in use on the Audi TDI it pull's the vanes closed to contol the flow of air over them thus restricting boost, on the GTT setup it works the opposite and you use the boost actuator to re-strict the max opening of the vanes if the vanes are to wide you will overboost big time feels good but dangerous:D
16-01-2011, 10:49
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Ashy took some pics when he done his conversion of the van mods

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php?albumid=1166
18-01-2011, 00:03
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Are you saying that the Audi actuator PULLS and the GTT actuator PUSHES with an increase in boost pressure?
18-01-2011, 00:05
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woznaldo

Are you saying that the Audi actuator PULLS and the GTT actuator PUSHES with an increase in boost pressure?

No sorry the VNT acutator is desgiend to work on vacum and will pull the vanes closed (VNT actuator's only have 2-3psi spring within).

Where on the GTT it's a boost operated system thus the VNT needs to be adjusted so that the actuator pushes the vanes out but you have to limit the length of the actuator rod to control the flow over the vanes and this will cause boost restriction / limit to far open and over boost big time.
30-01-2011, 07:00
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

James, how easy is it to bolt on the T3 Cossie compressor and housing? Obviously it would need to be balanced before use but, did anything need machining?
30-01-2011, 09:33
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woznaldo

James, how easy is it to bolt on the T3 Cossie compressor and housing? Obviously it would need to be balanced before use but, did anything need machining?

My VNT came already made from Adam L (Turbo Developmens), the few I done myself I stuck with the roginall VNT wheels and housings and they seemed to boost and go well.

Sorry not much help, I assume it would be possible if you have the cossie wheel shaft, compressor housing and the compressor back plate, defo a specialist job though
30-01-2011, 09:40
James5

1 Attachment(s)

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Pic of my turbo developments compressor housing
30-01-2011, 09:48
James5

1 Attachment(s)

Re: VNT Size and Set up

I know Bog Jim supplied and converted a VNT for Philr5t on here not been used yet as Phil i still finishing his project but he has a funky actuator setup which should let the vnt work as i would on a diesel.

The VNT Phil uses is a GT2556v of a VW LT II , only mods done to the vnt, is oil drain, compressor rotating and compressor outlet position modified other than that he has no other mods to it othe than the actuator setup mentioned above which is untested as yet.:scared:
30-01-2011, 11:40
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Thanks James. :agree:

Of the three GT2260Vs that are fitted to different models, mine has the smallest compressor. The obvious thing to do would be to use the compressor and housing from one of the sister turbos but, if the T3 route is just as easy, then I may as well go large early? :devil:
10-05-2011, 09:51
Jimmy_GTT

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Does anyone have experiences with VNT and EFI?
As I remember I have read somewhere that it won't work well with EFI...
10-05-2011, 12:36
James5

Re: VNT Size and Set up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy_GTT

Does anyone have experiences with VNT and EFI?
As I remember I have read somewhere that it won't work well with EFI...

Andrew Cooke tried if he couldn't get it to work reasonably well it wasn't going to happen at all.

OS8472 also tried but to be honest lack of knowledge and bad maps didn't help him:laugh: only messin Olly not sure why you changed to a normal turbo to be honest:scratch:
11-05-2011, 10:56
Woznaldo

Re: VNT Size and Set up

I think I remember Mr Cooke saying that the problem lies in the fact that the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine constantly changes and therefore is very hard to tune.

It's obviously not impossible but, may require an extra input into the ECU, like vane angle, which would give the indication of VE?

The Shelby CSX-VNT ran a VNT in 1989 with reasonable success and used it's ECU to control the turbine nozzle vanes.