The future of RTOC...SHAKE UP??

Right then guys & girls before I start this I want to make this perfectly clear that this is not an attack on any members of this great club (many of which I consider to be personal friends with) but for the good of the club I think we need to look very closely at the direction the club is heading and the current leadership.

Theirs been a few discussions of recent times both on and off the boards about what we need to do to continue the success of this club even though the number of cars are reducing every year. Such as HERE

I think we need to discuss the role and members of the committee as their only seem to be a few active & driven members left. This is in no-way an attack but I've just checked out Miller's profile and he's not been on the boards now since the 8th January? I understand their is much more to life that the RTOC and he's probably got other things to be doing but at the end of the day we need a leader to be an active member and do exactly that.

Lets discuss all this guys & not make any smart arse comments becasue at the end of the day we've come together because of this club and I for one want to see it continue for many years to come!

So, who's up for a game?

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...eT/shakeup.jpg

Agreed, miller has done a sterling job but possible other commitments have got in the way.

Club as a whole functions very well, has done since i can remember... slight up heaval a few years back mind....

Re structure re think... but somthing that seems to be working.... like a football team do you want to change it...

People like dawn etc are always active on the club and doing there roles.

clee does a good job with the shop.

Area reps .... hmmmm i offerd to help there months before any posts went up... got NO WHERE

scoff keeps the website running and that cant be easy somtimes.

others ive missed but its running ok... distinct lack of leader... a pack needs its alpha....

Running a club like this is never going to be easy for one person to do, having a committee has spread the work and has helped alot but not everyone can be on here 24/7 and even some of the bigger names of the past seem to have faided away abit.

I myself used to be on here at least once a day making 3 or 4 posts every visit but my situation has changed and for the short term I've had to concentrate on other things but I will be making more and more visits soon, hopefully I'll be able to help where possible once I've rewired my garage and built the workshop. I'll my hand to anyone who needs it (you've got a dirty mind:wasntme:) and once I've got everything sorted in my garage I'm more than happy for peeps who need abit of help to pop round to my place even if its just to drink tea/coffee or beer should the need arise and to spend time helping with there cars.

Anyway back to the job in hand, whats happening with the area reps? A request for volunteers was made back in october and as far as I can tell enough people said they'd do it to cover the whole country but nothing more has been said, this needs sorting asap aswell.

I'm sure Miller is having a well earned brake and will make an apperience sooner or late, (quick someone poke him with a stick) I dowt he's forgotten about the club, we wouldn't let him :devil:

We get Pod day and Mallory Park every year then it's all quiet in between :innocent: :D

thats still 2 more events than most clubs have :laugh:

Not sure what you could do to make people join / raise the member numbers, or infact make the club bigger and better.

As membership secretary i can tell you that the amount of new members and renawals are keeping me busy , alot seem to say they heard about the website through magazine adverts..of which there is one in this months PFC i beleive.

I find on my own ( and many other car based websites ) that thing's generaly go quiet this time of year as people suffer the winter blues etc, many people have their cars off the road this time of year making meets etc scarce.

The sad fact is that with the country still in recesssion and the rising price of fuel yet again, that the numbers that can attend this years events will probably drop on last years.

The club is stable financialy , the website is as good as its been and spring is coming :agree:

What are you suggestions to "shake it up" steve ?

Just going to put my nose in here...

I agree the club is ticking along, & that it has a healthy bank balance & a good turn over of new members (we would always love me) but the tick over of existing member's is what really keeps the club going.

I am a committee member with out a "role" but i am active on the committee forum and come up with suggestion's.

The Area Rep section is on going... its huge thing to set up... i would say its 95% done... just doing the final section's and getting the people who offered to be area reps informed and to make sure they know how bits & bobs are done. :)

Some committee members dont really need to do much in there role's where as others have alot to do..

I know Chris is alive & he is talking to Mallory park, got the calender's sorted(even tho many people dont want them now... )

The committee also got the club new stock which is good value & high quality.

We also have 2 major events in the year (more if you include Track Days, RR days & Ring trips etc)

Hopefully 2010 will see more small events in your area... they dont have to be arranged by area reps or anything...

I personnaly think if the commitee were a little more open about what they are doing for this club it would put some minds at ease maybe? Most members should believe that the comittee are doing things all the time it would be nice to know everyonce and a while.

For example, the area rep business, since that board was shut nothing has been said (apart from chris's post below) to let the regular members know. The club shop change, that took a while for anything public to be posted about that?

I know this might spark the "we have an agm every year and no one turns up", this shouldnt happen, however this is a on-line club as much as it is off-line so if some things could be made public then i think it would be a better thing!

All this said, i think this club is brilliant i believe that every comittee member does a brilliant job and this is by no means a bitch and a moan :)

Guys what do the area reps actualy do? Not being funny just trying to find out what their actual role is within the club.

even if the boards are a bit qiuet at times, it doesnt mean people are not here.
i usually browse the boards so i know whats going on, but dont post a great deal.
i think its all going quite well.

just looking forward for the weather to cheer up so i can get out in the car and do some events.

whatever the comitee is doing, its working

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Originally Posted by dave-sbs

Not sure what you could do to make people join / raise the member numbers, or infact make the club bigger and better.

As membership secretary i can tell you that the amount of new members and renawals are keeping me busy , alot seem to say they heard about the website through magazine adverts..of which there is one in this months PFC i beleive.

I find on my own ( and many other car based websites ) that thing's generaly go quiet this time of year as people suffer the winter blues etc, many people have their cars off the road this time of year making meets etc scarce.

The sad fact is that with the country still in recesssion and the rising price of fuel yet again, that the numbers that can attend this years events will probably drop on last years.

The club is stable financialy , the website is as good as its been and spring is coming :agree:

What are you suggestions to "shake it up" steve ?

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I agree with what you say their Dave & it's good that we are attracting new members through our adverts in the PPC mag.


A few things that just come to mind:

• The Area Rep thing seems to have stalled
• Everyone only seems to get together for one / two meetings a year
• A lot of people still think of this as the 5 GT Turbo owners club and those cars are fast becoming extinct so we need to think about how we can keep the club going and attract more members with different cars etc.
• If people have got winter blues then lets organise more meetings to cheer everyone up :D
• What should we sell in the club shop? Shouldn't we have more specialist parts for Renault Turbo's that you cannot get elsewhere so people depend on us and not just think of us as another forum
• Club together and fight for some more benefits for club members to make the membership fee more worthwhile?
• Should we amalgamate with another club for the day to share the costs of a Pod or track day?
• Closer ties with Dutch, French, German groups for cross border parts sales & meets

As I said right at the beginning, this is a discussion, not an attack, not a revolution, not a Coup, I have the good of the club at heart & have heard disgruntled moans for a while now so come on then all of you lets hear your suggestions as to how the club can evolve/move forwards??

What should we sell in the club shop? Shouldn't we have more specialist parts for Renault Turbo's that you cannot get elsewhere so people depend on us and not just think of us as another forum



I agree the shop should sell sought after items. It's ok having brake discs and carb kits but I can get them anywhere. When people go through shed loads of effort on a group buy I think the club should help them out financially. If done correctly there will be no left over stock. Do limited runs as steve and stu have done and not buy too much of one thing. Keep the stock changing around more. Stu mentioned the club would not help him with a few hundred quid yet there is a £200 down pipe in here which I can buy from big jim anyway unless it's on sale or return?

Well lets have a list of what you would like to see in the shop .
The BJ downpipe is a lot less when you use the members discount code and we get them at the group buy price from Jim and he makes them to order .

Please bear in mind the logistics of stocking certain items and the amount of work that it would need to run the shop as a ' business '

Chris Hebdon made a really good point, I do agree that the committee could be more open about what is going on. I totally understand how it might look but everyone is working hard behind the scenes. I try to post each of the new contacts on the forum for people to see but not everyone can advertise what they are up to in such a way.

As Chris (Penfold) said, Ashy has been working hard on the area reps thing and it's actually a much bigger deal than it might seem, a lot is going into it. Not only has decision-making been happening in the background but a new part of the website is being created with an interactive map. This has been asked for for a long time but the logistics of it aren't so simple. I'll leave that geeky bit to Scoff to explain, lol

Regarding the meets, there are actually a lot of meets that happen throughout the year, specially local meets. People like Adam005 arranges meets a lot for the South-Westerm/Bristol lot, there's nothing stopping the same happening in other regions. Perhaps this will become more prolific once the area reps have all been confirmed?

Still though, totally agree it probably needs to be made more open about what everyone is up to in the background as it can seem nothing much is happening until it's explained.

It's hard to type this down but what I meant was the club to help put money towards the group buys to ease the pressure on the member as long as they are genuine and trusted. I bet there are tons of people with good ideas on having parts made but shy away due to lack of funds. In stu and steves case the parts never even needed to go near the shop just some financial support. I only pointed towards discs and downpipe as the club payed out for them yet you can buy them anywhere, probably not as cheapbut readily availabe unlike, jets,dials,stiff engine mounts,ian s gauges etc which the club doesn't seem to have help funded. It's only a small loan to the member making the parts but it could help to keep these cars on the road and another way of using the membership money to help people, as not everyone wants pod and track days so knowing one off parts are available here may entice more members who oherwise may not have joined.

The club did pay for Steve's dials and we are now getting more made to stock .

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Originally Posted by clee

The club did pay for Steve's dials and we are now getting more made to stock .

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I stand corrected then. Maybe this can happen more often on other items?

Yes ,that would not be an issue at all .The club also bought the last 10 tow eye covers.That sort of thing is very doable .

I guess it's that "Just because you can't see what's happening ON the boards it doesn't mean to say there's NOTHING going on behind the scenes"

I'm sure i started a thread similar to this on the old RTOC boards, you'll get 5-6 pages of how things could/should be, replies......... then it tails off...... Until the next time :coffee:

Just to say i love this club, a good spirit about it, good community vibes. Met a lot of decent people throughout the years. Remember the club is Turbocharged Renaults but predominantly GT Turbos, which are now getting on for 24 years old.

This IS the premium club for the GTT, yeah for other turbo charged Renaults too but there are SO many clubs out there nowadays what with the tinternet i think we're doing really well still :cool:

I think the hidden committee board causes most of these threads! as the members cant see the effort being made & ideas being discussed.

why is it hiddedn anyway?? never understood it to be honest? thought it was "our" club?

also,does'nt bother me but i've heard a lot of people moan/mention that miller does'nt post/login very often? i think members want an active leader.

How much stock and different items can be kept in the shop?remember there is just one guy doing this and so I assume he is keeping it in his own house?!when I joined I was amazed that you lot had your own shop, and even more amazed you had you'd own pod day and national day.

I certainly do not have as much time spare to surf the boards as I have done previously but do try to reg drop in and where I can help give some advice (no always good advice LOL)

I certainly have done my time with 5’s and went as far as I dare at the time with the VAG conversion. I know most of the long running members and most are friends some very good friends and have over the years had nights out / events / road trips etc etc and respect a lot

I guess because I am heavily involved in supporting and modding the VX220’s of this world this is where most of my time is spent. Still love the 5 but just moved on, stay with the club every year as it is still a very good forum and some VERY knowledgeable guys on the site and enjoy to see other members pushing the limits and other engine conversions etc

I guess it is a difficult one going forward as more and more members are able to fix / maintain there own cars and need less support from others or just call them direct. Def more local events could work but this really needs to be driven by local area reps imo

Not much there for you Steve but guess there are a few of us in the same boat

Oh and the women do not like us spending all night on the boards :D

DG

The main reason the committee boards are that way is to get things done ,discuss forum infractions etc .
If it was open we would have everyone posting their views and it would more than likely stop any decisions being made at all .

I joined this club off the back of a comment i found on MeagneSport.net,
To say that ppl dont wana meet up & go runs at this time of year is just no true...
As an Area Rep on MegSport.net, I organise a monthly meet & drive with some sucsess, (I think ppl want meet & go on a run of Interest), the hardest part is to KEEP PEOPLE INTERESTED

(",)

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Originally Posted by clee

The main reason the committee boards are that way is to get things done ,discuss forum infractions etc .
If it was open we would have everyone posting their views and it would more than likely stop any decisions being made at all .

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make them viewable but only committee can post :)

Im not up on who does what in the club nor have I been around long enough to know but as previously mentioned earlier on in the thred im amazed we have our own pod day and national day, there cant be many other clubs that can boast about such events. Im not brown nosing but from what I have seen I think you guys do a great job. If you get stuck for an area rep for bournemouth poole southampton etc im more than willing to help. Oh and how much is the downpipe with club discount?

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Originally Posted by Nayls

make them viewable but only committee can post :)

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That could be an option however that would also stifle some of the useful debating content and frank opinion :laugh: It would also spill over onto the main board with non committee discussion on committee discussions :coffee:
Some things are just better done in private .

We should turn the National Day into a massive festival of awesomeness next year by inviting all of the Euro clubs. It would be sweet, and we should get a reciprocal invite.

I think the club trundles along in a just about satisfactory fashion. Its less political than it used to be (under she we do not speak of and Bruce things were at times utterly ludicrous) and Miller has definitely improved the events by sorting Mallory. :agree:

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Originally Posted by T.K

We should turn the National Day into a massive festival of awesomeness last year by inviting all of the Euro clubs. It would be sweet, and we should get a reciprocal invite.

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I dissgree, the national is for the members of this forum and so far I think its going great, this year will the third year at Mallory, unfortunstly I won't make it but I'm sure it'll go just as well as the 2 previous years.

However, having an event where we can invite other Renault based clubs along for trackday fun would be good, just as long as we don't try and over reach, if we invited every french car club we'll just end up making it into another french car show and look how thats gone down hill.

Totally agree Tom. StuTHC is actually in talks already with the Frenchies for various events. It's all happening, just in the background :)

Think I'm gonna think about arranging an update for the members on what we're all doing but that'll take a wee while to get together.

Os, you know we've had foreign members at the last few NDs anyway right? I very much doubt they'll come over in their droves but it's great for relations and they're all a bloody good laugh.

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Originally Posted by D4WNO

Os, you know we've had foreign members at the last few NDs anyway right? I very much doubt they'll come over in their droves but it's great for relations and they're all a bloody good laugh.

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I didn't mean ban everyone, although the garlic smell wasn't great :wasntme:

I meant try to keep the chavvy ****s away, I have no problem with the from france coming over, infact I learned quite abit about the french spec'd R5's from having a quick look at there cars last year.

I think I may have missread T.K. post, I thought he meant invite all the french car clubs in britain, but I think he actually meant the Renault clubs from france, whoops, my bad sorry:(

I think the committee do need there own board, no one unless they are a director of a company know what the "big wigs" are upto. It would be nice to be kept informed on things that effect the way the club is progressing as there are some very forward thinking members on here (new and old) which could help the committee out alot to take the pressure and workload of committee members.

I think that is the problem for some members .They perceive the committee as being 'big wigs ' and that is just not the case .

I understand where your comments are coming from Steve, best intentions/interests and all that. Its good. Threads like this usually are positive and lead to a few people pulling thier sleeves up.
Likewise i completely agree with Dave sbs's comments.
tbh i agree with most comments so far on this thread. The only ones are take slight umbridge too are that we only have 2 events a year :(:confused:

Check out the sticky thread in the events section, 2010 Club Events, more than 2 on there, and i'd like to think there is someting for everyones taste at some point in the year. All are welcome, simple as.

I also hope that once the area reps are sorted we will have more active, eager reps with the desire to arrange more local meets.

As Dawn mentioned, im 'trying' to arrange closer tie ins with the other Euro clubs. The langauge barrier is quite a high one, but we are getting there. Details to be posted very soon about the Clubsuper5GTturbo.com ND in Sanglier on 5th June.

As for my views on the committee/committee boards debate- The CM boards are very quite atm apart from the area reps situ. Usual for this time of year. The club, to a certain extent, runs itself. Dave with the memberships, Ian with the finances/website and Scoff with the website are key really, they keep everyting ticking over without the need for our input. Im surprised that Miller has been so quite, but likewise i know that if things were falling apart at the seams he'd be online more than anyone actively addressing the situation. But it's not, it's ticking along nicely. Maybe some feel this isn't good enough, maybe we should be doing more?
My honest opinion is that we could promote/post/email/pm and ask 'till we are blue in the face for more members, support at events and hard to get parts made and stocked in the shop. But if the people aren't interested it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by clee

I think that is the problem for some members .They perceive the committee as being 'big wigs ' and that is just not the case .

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Why do you think that is?

No idea .You'd have to ask them .

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Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

there are some very forward thinking members on here (new and old) which could help the committee out

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I've invited some of them to be on the committee but none of them wanted to be.

Main concern was fear of not being able to commit to an active contribution.

When I set up the committee back in Nov 2006 I felt the club was being held back, and at the time declining, by there having been only one person at the top and Bruce, Rach, Goher all seemed to exclude people who had something to offer, preferring to retain a vice like personal grip on the club like it was their own belonging and no-one else was capable enough to share power and responsibility. Or maybe they didn't like to share, or liked the feeling of having complete control, I don't know.

Those individuals put a lot of their time and effort in but it was never going to be enough.

I had a history of involvement with committees and knew it was a better way as that would prevent the serious problems that can occur in a 'dictatorship' and mean several or many people could supply their varying abilities. But committees have problems of their own, mainly clashing personalities and lack of consensus which can be very destabilising and greatly slow progress. Never the less, it's worked fairly well for this club.

I intended for this committee to not have an overall leader but to rule by general agreement. As it stands that about how it works. That avoids ego maniacs from having their own agenda to dispose whoever is the 'leader' and so de-politicising it which can only be a good thing. Here committee Chairmans role is to chair meetings not the club. Though due to the on going fluid nature of this set up being all 'on-line' we don't have meetings though it was tried a couple of times.

This committee is really very small and can be taken to be a management team. I would perhaps like to have a wider committee, that's the normal way it works, club members who just attend the committee meetings every so often and are briefed by the management team. They then actively monitor and ensure the management team members are up to the tasks required of them. It seems though that there just aren't the interested members in this club for that level of structure. Pretty much everyone wants to leave it all to someone else. Few if any beyond what we currently have, want to take an active role in management. This is not new. There are a few members who like to talk a lot but won't actually do anything themselves.

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Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

Why do you think that is?

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It does seem to the case thou. I've had people say to me in the past 'thanks for the invite' or 'i didn't realise this event was for normal members'!! WTF?:confused:?

Does my head in tbh, i hate cliques, always have, bitching, backstabbing, it's all bollocks. If i felt that i was part of, or was involved with a clique id be out of here in a shot.

Everything is open too/available to everyone.............it's your club, come and get involved :)

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Originally Posted by Ian S

This committee is really very small and can be taken to be a management team. I would perhaps like to have a wider committee, that's the normal way it works, club members who just attend the committee meetings every so often and are briefed by the management team. They then actively monitor and ensure the management team members are up to the tasks required of them. It seems though that there just aren't the interested members in this club for that level of structure. Pretty much everyone wants to leave it all to someone else. Few if any beyond what we currently have, want to take an active role in management. This is not new. There are a few members who like to talk a lot but won't actually do anything themselves.

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Very well said Ian :agree:

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Originally Posted by Ian S

This committee is really very small and can be taken to be a management team. I would perhaps like to have a wider committee, that's the normal way it works, club members who just attend the committee meetings every so often and are briefed by the management team. They then actively monitor and ensure the management team members are up to the tasks required of them. It seems though that there just aren't the interested members in this club for that level of structure. Pretty much everyone wants to leave it all to someone else. Few if any beyond what we currently have, want to take an active role in management. This is not new. There are a few members who like to talk a lot but won't actually do anything themselves.

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:agree:, i like the sound of that! I really do agree with a committee, i think it works very well but as an "active" member i just feel a bit more information passed down would benefit everyone

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Originally Posted by stuTHC

It does seem to the case thou. I've had people say to me in the past 'thanks for the invite' or 'i didn't realise this event was for normal members'!! WTF?:confused:?

Does my head in tbh, i hate cliques, always have, bitching, backstabbing, it's all bollocks. If i felt that i was part of, or was involved with a clique id be out of here in a shot.

Everything is open too/available to everyone.............it's your club, come and get involved :)

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Well, thats just crazy! I honestly believe if things were discussed more openly (as much as they can be) then would this not help the us & them mentality that may be around (i dont think it is, but maybe i am being biased)

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Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

Well, thats just crazy! I honestly believe if things were discussed more openly (as much as they can be) then would this not help the us & them mentality that may be around (i dont think it is, but maybe i am being biased)

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more openly???

last year we had event info posted in the Events forum, on the events calander, in general chat, on the homepage, on the news page, sent mass emails, mass pm's, word of mouth, posted on other car club and car related forums, linked everything to the club shop........and we still had people moaning that they didn't know what was going on, pm'ing me 3 days before an event asking how to get tickets. Seriously, you can't help people who don't help themselves.

:laugh: i mean about the club in general and not events. Events i think are very well publicised (spelling!!!??) well in advance!

Just to say that the people on the committee and the few others who run the club do this in their own time and don't get paid to do so. I think after the shenadigans with the old boards going down etc RTOC is in a good place right now :agree: :cool:

Area reps has always been a grey area, people wanting to be reps for the name, or saying they'll do it and the novelty wearing thin soon afterwards. I've often thought about being a 'Rep' TBH i'm all for helping anyone out or organising a local meet but don't feel i need the 'title' to do that :ashamed: :)

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Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

:laugh: i mean about the club in general and not events. Events i think are very well publicised (spelling!!!??) well in advance!

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I guessed you where refering to the club in general, not events.
But my comments were an example of how some people are quick to shout up that x and y aint happening, when the info and evidance that it is is sat right in front of them, they just can't be arsed to look.

I seriously don't agree that commitee boards should be visible, but I think it would put most of our minds at ease if the commitee made frequent notifications about whats being discussed and which way the discussion is heading.

being an overseas member I can't quite comment on events being held but I do remember from when I used to live in the UK that there were more curry nights orginesed to which one of them I myself have attended and met and made some good friends.

The shop looks good imo but I do agree to what I read a couple of nights ago that the club really needs to look in getting obsolete items reproduced.

Getting the new age Renault Turbo owners is not an easy task I don't think as they have their own clubs/forums dedicated to their cars just like this club started as a 5gtt owners club. I remember the times when discussions were made whether a certain 11 turbo should have been included to the 1/4 mile leader board just because it wasn't a 5, even though it shares the same engine and drivetrain from factory.

and finally I strongly disagree that what Miller is doing should be judged with how frequent he posts on the boards or his last login dates, but what he actually did/does for the club.

This is in no way a dig at anyone and please read all of the above with a pinch of salt as this is just my humble opinion and I don't mean to disagree with anyone's opinion.

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Originally Posted by stuTHC

It does seem to the case thou. I've had people say to me in the past 'thanks for the invite' or 'i didn't realise this event was for normal members'!! WTF?:confused:?

Does my head in tbh, i hate cliques, always have, bitching, backstabbing, it's all bollocks. If i felt that i was part of, or was involved with a clique id be out of here in a shot.

Everything is open too/available to everyone.............it's your club, come and get involved :)

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speak for yourself dude, am staying in the inner circle;)

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Originally Posted by Robbo

speak for yourself dude, am staying in the inner circle;)

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think this is exactly the type of comment that alienates new members:scratch:

You can see Robbo's avatar I take it ? You don't want to go anywhere near his inner circle :scared: