Project 172

I'm almost certainly going to regret this...

It looks like I've bought most of a PH2 172 (anyone want what looks like a straight shell?). It's complete enough to move around under it's own steam, or will be when I slip some wheels under it.

I'm on the look out for something amusing to build the bits into, no rush as I've got plenty to do simplifying the wiring in the 172 so that it's easier to reshell when the time comes.

It'll be a daily driver, so it won't be anything other than standard :sad2:

No pictures yet, but I'll post once I have some.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'm almost certainly going to regret this...

It looks like I've bought most of a PH2 172 (anyone want what looks like a straight shell?). It's complete enough to move around under it's own steam, or will be when I slip some wheels under it.

I'm on the look out for something amusing to build the bits into, no rush as I've got plenty to do simplifying the wiring in the 172 so that it's easier to reshell when the time comes.

It'll be a daily driver, so it won't be anything other than standard :sad2:

No pictures yet, but I'll post once I have some.

---

Looks like fun.. are you still hillclimbing/sprinting?

I've just sent off for my license and NottinghamSportsCarClub membership, so I'll be doing a few rounds this year all being well :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Looks like fun.. are you still hillclimbing/sprinting?

I've just sent off for my license and NottinghamSportsCarClub membership, so I'll be doing a few rounds this year all being well :)

---

yes and no, I think this could be another taking it easy year :laugh:

172 lump into a new shape twingo :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

172 lump into a new shape twingo :agree:

---

isn't a new shape twingo just an old clio in a new shape?

A mini?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

isn't a new shape twingo just an old clio in a new shape?

---

yeah, same shape clio as mine, so all the bits wishbones and stuff should drop in

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

yeah, same shape clio as mine, so all the bits wishbones and stuff should drop in

---

nah, you build it and I'll take the pictures :laugh:

get me all the bits ill chuck it together with cable ties:agree:

Andy, how much for the shell?

C1J'd stripped clio shell sounds like fun. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

Andy, how much for the shell?

C1J'd stripped clio shell sounds like fun. :D

---

I've already had some interest, nothing concrete. I won't want much, I certainly wouldn't be offended by any offer. Let me get it on my drive before you start fighting over it. The shell looked good, no sunroof, but it will be little more than a shell once I've finished.

Those of you on Cliosport, is there anything of technical value in the members only bits?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Those of you on Cliosport, is there anything of technical value in the members only bits?

---

No the place is fully of numptys if they have a problem they take there cars to K-Tec

don't hold back :laugh:

looking at the projects there seem to some clued up than others, although I note an unhealthy interest in 'flocking'.... still, a few years ago it was like that here, but 'mesh' was the word of choice:sad2:

buddy if you need out off there give me a shout no need to pay up for anything, not many people on there can answer any technical questions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

buddy if you need out off there give me a shout no need to pay up for anything, not many people on there can answer any technical questions

---

sweet, can you get me all the info needed to fit a ph2 172 engine into another shell:D

I really need to start pawing over the 172, but how much stuff can I ditch, and it still run normally? How does the security thing work? Am I better ditching it and hacking the ECU, or transplanting it? Actually, what is it?? I guess it'll be easier to ditch the ABS and fit a pressure limiter in the rear brake lines? Or is it, and should I just throw the ABS on too?

I'm at the point, where I don't know how much stuff I don't know:sad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

sweet, can you get me all the info needed to fit a ph2 172 engine into another shell:D

I really need to start pawing over the 172, but how much stuff can I ditch, and it still run normally? How does the security thing work? Am I better ditching it and hacking the ECU, or transplanting it? Actually, what is it?? I guess it'll be easier to ditch the ABS and fit a pressure limiter in the rear brake lines? Or is it, and should I just throw the ABS on too?

I'm at the point, where I don't know how much stuff I don't know:sad:

---

Ask K-Tec :)

a full set of schematics would tell you a lot :)

if you want to keep the stock ecu you can get it chiped so that it doesnt have the security and stuff on it, you can ditch the abs, has its own loom sorta. you can use volvo 440 belt/alt setups to ditch the pas and ac if you have it too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

a full set of schematics would tell you a lot :)

---

sorted - sorta...

Cooke, what the bloody hell you planning to do now?! :coffee: :D

Shouldn't you be concentrating on getting your 5 back on the road...well, hill-climbs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

if you want to keep the stock ecu you can get it chiped so that it doesnt have the security and stuff on it, you can ditch the abs, has its own loom sorta. you can use volvo 440 belt/alt setups to ditch the pas and ac if you have it too

---

yep, PAS and AC will be going. I'll have to look into the volvo belt setup, sounds a bit simpler than all the ****e hanging off the end of the engine. Smaller too - and boy, do I need to claw back all the space I can ;)

Feel free to post the parts required for the volvo belt setup:cartman:

I had a theory that, if you plipped or turned on the ignition of the donor car in its original state then, cut the wire from the UCH to the injection computer, the injection computer would always be unlocked.....? Worth a try one day if someone is good with a soldering iron to re-join the wires, or, going to 'Chip' a car anyway......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

yep, PAS and AC will be going. I'll have to look into the volvo belt setup, sounds a bit simpler than all the ****e hanging off the end of the engine. Smaller too - and boy, do I need to claw back all the space I can ;)

Feel free to post the parts required for the volvo belt setup:cartman:

---

A C409 or R5 GTX bottom pully, altenator bracket and tensioner is OK....

It may take a few days, but if you want I can print off some wiring diags for the 172 off from VISU and post them to ya...?

Re. the volvo setup (which I think is also similar to the gtx setup ?) you might run into issues with clearance in a small engine bay. the alternator bracket has the alternator sitting forward rarther a lot. I couldn't get it into my engine bay!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Cooke, what the bloody hell you planning to do now?! :coffee: :D

Shouldn't you be concentrating on getting your 5 back on the road...well, hill-climbs?

---

it's a surprise, but I'll bet your reaction will be something along the lines of "FFS":scratch:

and you're right, that's what I should be concentrating on, but I'm not.

actually, a big part of me was thinking - why not just buy all the lightweight fibreglass and perspex parts in the catalogue and put the 172 back on the road. But nah, that's just too "cliosport":laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Re. the volvo setup (which I think is also similar to the gtx setup ?) you might run into issues with clearance in a small engine bay. the alternator bracket has the alternator sitting forward rarther a lot. I couldn't get it into my engine bay!

---

I reckon a motorcycle altenator and a diy bracket should sort the problem,and,now you have a proper mill Andy, it should be easy to knock up a bracket....?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Re. the volvo setup (which I think is also similar to the gtx setup ?) you might run into issues with clearance in a small engine bay. the alternator bracket has the alternator sitting forward rarther a lot. I couldn't get it into my engine bay!

---

hmm, might need bit more thought then, still, at least it won't need that to start, I'm sure something can be bodged together.

I have used the GTX setup which is very similair if not the same to the Volvo setup

I had to modify the bracket so it would clear the cross member (Renault part number 77 00 718 613 - £23.50 inc VAT)

The top alt bracket is also off the GTX bracket (Renault part number 82 00 031 832 - £44.17 inc VAT)

Cliosports only a fiver to join isn't it? So its not really a big expense but as Jame5 says they are a bunch of numptys who don't listen to good advice unless its from GDI or Ktec!!

However, if you want a 50 page thread on whos got the best ass, Britney or Christina, then its a fiver well spent :coffee:

There are some nice projects on there tho!!

The UCH thing that reads the key doesn't seem to be any thing fancy, I put a multimeter across it and it just read +5v whin the key was inserted, I guess you could override it fairly easily?

Thanks for the pics James, I'll be looking at them again nearer the time :) I guess it uses a different belt?

Ashy - as a non member I can see the projects. Since I presumably have a UCH (?) in the donor car do I need to bypass it, or can I just use it? This may seem obvious to you, but I've not seen one, got any idea what it is, how it works, or even how you activate/deactivate it...

Matt - I think I'm OK for diagrams, I'll just need to get my head around what's what. I'll be back on touch once I'm totally lost

OK, if you need a hand with understanding the UCH/Decoder give me a shout and I'll dust off my old training manuals....

Yeah the original belt is a 6pk I ended up getting a 5pk827 or was it 5pk 830 belt from a local motor factor.


:pWhere the bits I emailed you any good and did you take a look at the download link? what did you think of it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Thanks for the pics James, I'll be looking at them again nearer the time :) I guess it uses a different belt?

---

I managed to get the top alternator bracket from a volvo 440 and there's no shortage of those in the scrappers.. oh and it has the added advantage of having a mounting point for an engine damper, which is nice if you one one. but best of all it cost £5.
I also got the bottom bracket from the same car but that'll need a bit of bashing to get on :)

So whats the plans or base of the engine?

how about a 172 R11 https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=5092

Would be different? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

So whats the plans or base of the engine?

how about a 172 R11 https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=5092

Would be different? :confused:

---

is different good? I hope so :popcorn:

Its my cup of tea... :agree: spill the beans whats going on :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Its my cup of tea... :agree: spill the beans whats going on :confused:

---

I will once I know, I'm almost there, just sold my Micra to make space in my life for another car.

just watched the Micra drive away, it was 'emotional' off for a Guinness to celebrate.

Nothing much to report, although I should be picking the 'clio' up on Sunday. Can rattle off a couple of pics of the hulk then.

woops...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

woops...

---

:laugh: Love the 3 spokes:cooter:

Nuts :eek: this is guna be good i can see it......:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

:laugh: Love the 3 spokes:cooter:

---

you can't put a price on retro chic like that, still, you're a mate, make me an offer :laugh:

What size are they? look small and light, ideal for drag rears maybe :coffee:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

What size are they? look small and light, ideal for drag rears maybe :coffee:

---

not sure, but I bet they're not as light as they look. I'll try and weigh one with a tyre on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

woops...

---

ah so you got it then, nice. is it running yet? :p

Rear engine would be a winner there Andy....go on & do it for a laugh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

Rear engine would be a winner there Andy....go on & do it for a laugh.

---

nooo, it's going to be a nice sensible daily driver, nothing that takes away the original practicality. Besides, the seats fold down to make a double bed - of sorts :D

Ilker - it's running, that's largely because my spanners have been nowhere near it..

2 streams to the project, the first is to strip all the extraneous ****e off the 172 and get it running in minimal mode - ie hotwired. Service the 172 engine - belt swap, and anything obvious or recommended (suggestions please..)

The second is the twingo -
- Wheels and tyres - 195/45/15 - play about with spacers to get the clearance right..
- 172 brakes (and front suspension?)
- there are some rust spots underneath that need looking at - hopefully it's just clean, inhibit and coat, if not I have a MIG..
- suspension - I can see Koni coilover all around.
- engine and gearbox swap.

as you can see the engine is way down the list.

The good thing about having something unusual to start with is you need to do no more than hang fuzzy dice from the interior mirror to make it unique..

Now are you sure you don't the engine in the back :)
http://www.twingo.net/nicolas/fusee2.jpg

Picked the Twingo up today, as well as some R19 16V wheels, took a few pics. The tyres are shot and 195/50/15, so a bit big.

just got it off the trailer:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...wingo/nice.jpg

just popped a wheel on to check for clearance
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ngo/better.jpg

4 of the 5 look to have been painted in crackle paint - which is a shame. Still, they seem to fit the front OK:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/front.jpg

and the rear, although they are tight on the handbrake cable, may need a small spacer, or may be ok with the cable pulled out of the way:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...wingo/rear.jpg

yes, the rear does have coil overs, so plenty of chance to have adjustable platforms all around :) The rears fill the back out quite nicely:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ngo/behind.jpg

it was all a bit of a rush as it was getting dark
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...wingo/side.jpg

I should be picking the clio up tomorrow morning, I'll be able to check whether the R19 wheels clear the 172 brakes, if so I think I'm going to keep them, I think they look suitably subtle on the Twingo :)

Wheels look good Andrew, if you want me to give them a refurb/lick of paint let me know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

Wheels looke good Andrew, if you want me to give them a refurb/lick of paint let me know.

---

that's really tempting, it's a pity you're so far away. Much as I hate painting wheels, I think these could do with a lick of original grey. I'll find out tomorrow if they clear the 172 brakes, that's the next big hurdle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

that's really tempting, it's a pity you're so far away. Much as I hate painting wheels, I think these could do with a lick of original grey. I'll find out tomorrow if they clear the 172 brakes, that's the next big hurdle.

---

I dont see why they wont clear the brake's, i know the ph1 have 15's & the ph2 has the same brake set up so it should all be good.

My cup wheels look good now there painted, they look like new :)

:cooter:Looking good matey and suprisingly enough the wheels do so suit the little twingo

another busy day out on the road, picked the Clio up. Tried an R19 wheel on the front and they fit fine:agree: so it's all go with the wheels. The Clio didn't have any wheels, so I took a set of 15's with me, fitted them, dropped another rim onto the floor so that I had somewhere to sit, fired it up and drove it onto the trailer. Apparently it has a recent cambelt change, certainly the aux belt tensioner looks new.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/clio1.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/clio2.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/clio3.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/clio4.jpg

right... having stripped the tyres off the wheels yesterday I decided that they needed a bit of TLC before fitting the new tyres (ordered a set of 195/45/15 T1R Toyos..).

Dropped the first rim into the grit blaster today, got rid of the nasty crinkle finish and it's come up quite well - just 3 more to go :sad:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ed%20wheel.jpg

weighed the rim, 7.9Kg plus 250g for the centre cap:eek: actually, not too bad...

I've now reached the limit of my expertise, I'm going to flat the surface a wee bit before paint - just to clean up the fragments of paint that remain (suggestions as to what I should flat with...), but as per the other thread, what next? I want an OE type grey/silver finish, how do I achieve it with the paints generally found in my local automotive shop?

Maybe I should just drive them down to Penfold :D

Hey Andrew,

Have a look at this LINK to my mate's report on how he did my alloys.

Might give you some ideas?! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Steve - Raider

Hey Andrew,

Have a look at this LINK to my mate's report on how he did my alloys.

Might give you some ideas?! :D

---

your mate has 'issues':laugh:

Cool project :)

I found a twingo in my local scrappy yesterday... first time ive had a good look round one... so tiny :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

your mate has 'issues':laugh:

---

:innocent:

:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston

Cool project :)

I found a twingo in my local scrappy yesterday... first time ive had a good look round one... so tiny :laugh:

---

indeed, about the length of a real mini, just a chunk wider (I was parked next to one yesterday:smokin:)

How complete was it? I might needs some bits, and they're pretty rare.

It looked to be pretty much complete... you could prob get the whole car for cheap or if you need anything give me a shout i can always pop in

http://www.autosaveltd.co.uk/autosave_main.html

Anyone want a set of these, i had a set refurbished a couple of years ago!:)

What crappy weather... I've been outside dodging hailstones pulling a few bits out of the Clio engine bay that I don't intend to use. I've got the ECU out ready for fettling. The plan is to strip everything off the clio that won't be going into the Twingo to ensure it'll run when I do the swap. I don't want the car to be off the road for ages whilst I scratch my head over the wiring.

Something I'm interested in is interrogating the OBD stuff, might make fault finding simpler..... I'll take any advice offered on this, at the moment I'm thinking I'll just go the RSTuner route.

I stripped all the wheels during the week, so had a go at painting them today. Fortunately I'm not a perfectionist, thus the job went OK :D one can of grey primer, 2 cans of alloy wheel paint and one can of lacquer later.... btw, due to the weather I sprayed them in the house, probably not one of my best ideas, the house is now cloudy and stinks :laugh:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ed%20wheel.jpg


If the weather is OK tomorrow I'm going to have a stab at fitting the clio brakes onto the Twingo...

:agree: looks good.

In house is best as they dry better...

Did my old set at my paint house in there kitchen.... stank for days and they kept on finding things with a green dust on for weeks after. :eek::laugh:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...orkStation.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...6082008106.jpg

me and my friend were spraying a set of mgzr wheels ages ago. He had a spray booth but it was outa order so we decided to spray the wheels in his living room in front of the gas fire. All was fine unil the 3rd wheel when he wept the car across the fire, the room lit up like a bonfire, he lost his eye brows and arm hair, it was very scary , but funny at the time. By the project looks spot on , poor clio there though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by djinuk

me and my friend were spraying a set of mgzr wheels ages ago. He had a spray booth but it was outa order so we decided to spray the wheels in his living room in front of the gas fire. All was fine unil the 3rd wheel when he wept the car across the fire, the room lit up like a bonfire, he lost his eye brows and arm hair, it was very scary , but funny at the time. By the project looks spot on , poor clio there though.

---

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Something I'm interested in is interrogating the OBD stuff, might make fault finding simpler..... I'll take any advice offered on this, at the moment I'm thinking I'll just go the RSTuner route....

---

what do you need to do to it? i have kit that can read the ecu, tell you what it sees from the sensors, delete error codes etc etc. i cant reflash or tune it though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparkie

what do you need to do to it? i have kit that can read the ecu, tell you what it sees from the sensors, delete error codes etc etc. i cant reflash or tune it though.

---

What do you use mate, I need to reset the lights on my 182... Guess i could take it to the garage but that would be too easy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparkie

what do you need to do to it? i have kit that can read the ecu, tell you what it sees from the sensors, delete error codes etc etc. i cant reflash or tune it though.

---

I'm not too bothered about reflashing, it's more about knowing what's going on with the engine. It's possible that I'll be able to butcher the loom and it'll all work first time....

You can buy ecu/fault-code readers from RS/Maplins/Farnell, even Ebay. About £30 or so. As said, you can't reflash the ecu or anything like that with them, but you can read (and delete) the fault-code(s).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

You can buy ecu/fault-code readers from RS/Maplins/Farnell, even Ebay. About £30 or so. As said, you can't reflash the ecu or anything like that with them, but you can read (and delete) the fault-code(s).

---

yeah, I've seen the cheap readers, but I'd like to see what the sensors are doing rather than rely on an error code. I know the RSTuner can be used with a laptop to log what's going on, although it's not clear how much you can log (an extra E20 allows you to plug a wb lambda sensor in and log that too). The Twingo has very little in the way of clocks, just a light to tell you the engine has boiled over :D

:laugh:

Why not simply go after-market? eg, Adaptronic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

:laugh:

Why not simply go after-market? eg, Adaptronic?

---

because it's simpler and cheaper not to. As you're prone to saying - Regie got it right first time :D

I've just been looking under the 172, it's got the split RH driveshaft, looks like I'm going to try and use the 172 shafts. I'm getting way too optimistic now, thinking I can use the 172 springs, dampers, brakes, and now driveshafts :rolleyes:

Of course :agree: :D

Ok, cheaper alternative idea No.2 - Couldn't you just 'borrow'/knock up some clocks from work & plumb them in to keep an eye on things? Could even retro-fit an uber reliable (!) set of gtt/clio 16v/172 clocks...maybe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Of course :agree: :D

Ok, cheaper alternative idea No.2 - Couldn't you just 'borrow'/knock up some clocks from work & plumb them in to keep an eye on things? Could even retro-fit an uber reliable (!) set of gtt/clio 16v/172 clocks...maybe

---

I don't want to clutter the inside up, the twingo doesn't have a dash, and I'd like to keep it that way. It'll ruin the effect if the inside looks like a eurofighter :scared:

that said, I do have the racetechnology dash...

The little digital thing like duncs has might work if I hid it inside the ashtray...

I didn't get very far with the suspension, the top nuts didn't want to move, I'll borrow a rattle gun from work tomorrow...

So, instead of playing with suspension I started stripping the extraneous ****e off the Clio, and boy is there a lot of it... the engine is now starting to look a bit smaller...

Unfortunately I also looked under the Twingo bonnet again, there isn't much in the way of space in there :D

I've got the ECU ready to send, I've decided to send it to ECUClinic to be made "free running", I don't want to rip too much out of the 172 loom until I've had it running again.

I could now do with a "GTX" alternator bracket, let me know if you have one available...

Soon cracking on mate...:agree:

I got to have a try at fitting the Clio suspension on the Twingo last night, it looks close enough that I'm going to try and fit it all when the engine goes in. At the moment it's sitting a bit high, but I think the new engine will sort that :) No pictures as it was all a bit "experimental":laugh:

Finally had the tyres fitted to the wheels today, they need to go back to have shorter valves fitted next week. I couldn't resist popping them on. I think they look a bit better than they did before I painted them:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...wheels%202.jpg

I didn't do much over the weekend, the ECU hadn't arrived, so I spent some time unbundling the loom from the engine bay fuse/relay box to the pump/throttle/OBD connector. I'm beginning to understand what goes where in the Clio.

I'd planned on leaving the engine swap for a while, but two things have brought this forward
- my neighbour is having some building work, and the scaffolding means that I can't get my car off the drive for a couple of weeks
- I have next week off work.

Unfortunately the plan of firing the engine up in the Clio with minimal wiring and an unlocked ECU has gone out of the window as I still don't have it back, and apparently won't until next week. I'll hold off pulling the engine out as long as I can, but the reality is I probably need to be bolting it into the Twingo on Sunday if I stand any chance of getting it runninng in the near future. I'm going to start by pulling the Twingo apart, and see how things go from there. Bouyed with optimism having seen how easily James has got his 172GTT running I'm going to be wiring and running the ECU for the first time in the Twingo :sad2:

Anyway, some pics, firstly the Twingo engine bay, as you can see, the 1.2L C series engine is squezzed in there, just as well the 172 is a similar size :laugh:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o%20engine.jpg

again, to remind myself, the Twingo engine bay fuse/relay box is a complicated thing:crap:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o%20wiring.jpg

of course the Clio has about 4 times as much stuff in the equivalent box. I pulled the various bits out of the Clio box and removed it to leave just the wiring to look at: :eek:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o%20wiring.jpg

You know, I went to Paris for the weekend and i'd never really seen one of those Twingo's before. Without even thinking stereotypically, nearly every car we saw was a Renault and a Peugeot. Not to mention I must have seen about 100 of those early Twingo's in the three days we were there.

Andy, get this project finished and sell it to me. :cool:

Andy, I am sure you will have better luck than me as I am just special :rob:

Keep the pics flowing mate am loving it:cooter:

Just turbo the 1.2 & be done:laugh:

172 lump will be tight in there!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brigsy

Just turbo the 1.2 & be done:laugh:

---

that would be too easy, I have all the bits to do that, and fit GTT brakes sat around in my workshop :sad2:

I guess if I can't squeeze the 172 in I have that option....

my ECU is being posted back to me today, if it wern't for the bank holiday I'd be getting it in good time, as it is I'm not sure when it'll be delivered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

that would be too easy, I have all the bits to do that, and fit GTT brakes sat around in my workshop :sad2:

I guess if I can't squeeze the 172 in I have that option....

---

Your one crazy man Andy :laugh:! If you have all the bits to make that engine better i cant get my head around why you wouldn't?

I'm dodging showers outside today whilst trying to drop the engine out of the Twingo. When the rain gets too bad I've been hacking away at the 172 alternator bracket : it came to me that I could modify the lower bracket to allow the alternator to swing tighter to the block, and hopefully end up with something more compact that the volvo brackets - we'll see.

anyway, popped the bumper off, 2 bolts and it was off, this thing is much lighter than a GTT bumper, the front panel has been bent at some point, I'm undecided on whether to try and get it a bit straighter, or just ignore it. I'm tending towards ignore..
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...mper%20off.jpg

The front panel unbolts on the Twingo giving excellent access. It's not difficult to remove, just a few bolts, and you need to remove the inner mud guards to get to a couple of the bolts, and the side repeater wiring. I found about 1Kg of sand behind each inner guard - I'm sure there is a story there, I might give the previous owner a call :laugh:
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...anel%20off.jpg

I also pulled off the front legs, partly because I want to fit the 172 ones, and partly so the driveshafts can stay in the box when I pull it out.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...%20off%203.jpg

at this point I just need to remove the gear linkage, fuel lines, and exhaust before lifting her out.

Going well mate. Love the improvised axel stands, great idea :agree:

I've been having issues with my alternator bracket / alignment the last couple of weeks, throwing belts or squeeking. Solved now and I can reccommend Camskill for the belts - I had to order a couple of different sizes until I was happy, next day delivery both times off their website. Plus they seem to do the whole dayco range, so any size you can imagine :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I've been having issues with my alternator bracket / alignment the last couple of weeks, throwing belts or squeeking. Solved now and I can reccommend Camskill for the belts - I had to order a couple of different sizes until I was happy, next day delivery both times off their website. Plus they seem to do the whole dayco range, so any size you can imagine :)

---

did you go for 6pk or 5pk?

6pk, I was throwing 5pk off but 5pk would no doubt have worked fine once I solved the alignment problem.

just pulled the engine out, got a table booked for 7:30, gotta scrub up and run :D

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...gine%20out.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...go%20empty.jpg

Bloody hell Andy that was quick keep the pics coming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Bloody hell Andy that was quick keep the pics coming.

---

if the weather is OK tomorrow I'll be stripping the clio down to the same state, ideally I'll be seeing what fits where on Sunday. Taking them apart is easy, it's the making all the bits fit together that's going to take the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

6pk, I was throwing 5pk off but 5pk would no doubt have worked fine once I solved the alignment problem.

---

Just ordered a 5pk865, I cut and shut the standard belt to get the size. It looked like the 6pk was going to rub on the timing belt cover, so I took the safe option.

If it doesn't fit under the bonnet at that I can modify the alternator bracket for even more swing.

On the 225 its a 7pk crank pulley and alternator pulley. I running a 6pk at the moment 865mm

today started a bit slowly after a trip to the pub last night, I also realised that I needed to buy some food :disagree:. With the help of a thread on here I popped into our high street car spares place and bought a tube of TigerSeal to fill the holes in my engine mounts - I figured the standard ones weren't up to handling 3x the power. In the end I only did the rear one as I'd like to try and get new fronts. No pictures because it isn't pretty :laugh:

Pulled a few bits out of the twingo engine bay, wiped a few bits, then got bored.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20cleaning.jpg

I'd been delaying pulling the engine out of the clio, but I really needed to get it out, so I pulled the trailer forward, and used the ramps as a makeshift ramp, pushed the clio back onto the 'ramp' and started unbolting. Getting the engine crane onto the trailer on my own necessitated dismantling it first. Anyway, long story to short, I now have the suspension off, the engine is sat on the floor, and I just need to lift the car off it. The call to the pub stopped play again..

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...gine%20out.jpg

the day started with the nearest thing to cleaning that I'm likely to be caught doing

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...go%20clean.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...0clean%202.jpg

I then picked the clio up, and pulled the engine out from underneath it
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o%20engine.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...engine%202.jpg

I then took a quick picture showing the alternator sat on it's modified bracket.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...alternator.jpg

with a bit of grunting I got the engine over to the Twingo, and lifted it roughly into position to get an idea what fitted and what didn't.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%201.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%202.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%203.jpg

it was clear that I'd be lifting the engine in and out a lot, so to save damaging anything I decided to remove the loom, cooling system, exhaust manifold (as this clashed with the rear engine mount), the inlet plenum, and the lifting eye.

First, the obligatory loom shot
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...wingo/loom.jpg

stripped engine
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%204.jpg

I'm going to need to cut a bit out of the cockpit air intake box, the engine is still sat too low, although it is now sat loosely on 2 of the 3 engine mounts
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%205.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%206.jpg

and finally a shot from underneath with the bonnet shut - note that the engine is still sat too low, and slightly too far forwards.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e%20in%207.jpg

Awesome work, I know the french Performance cars magazine is a bag of poo, but it has a wide arched twingo with a v8 in the back, which I'll scan up later if you'd like. Although its probably not your cup of tea:)

twingos must be all the rage!
supercharged f7r:)
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/sh...g=&tabNumber=2

oops, looks like the cheap build has gone out of the window, just ordered a set of H&R coilovers :sad2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

oops, looks like the cheap build has gone out of the window, just ordered a set of H&R coilovers :sad2:

---

172 suspension no good then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

172 suspension no good then?

---

nope, way too long, the bottom balljoints neck out before the dampers can fully extend, Gonna break something doing that. Still hoping to use the 172 uprights, brakes etc.

blimey, bet they wernt cheap... but if its the only major thing you have to change :agree: fingers crossed for you anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

blimey, bet they wernt cheap... but if its the only major thing you have to change :agree: fingers crossed for you anyway.

---

not too bad, esp considering the poor state of the pound; just over £600. They 'should' have bilstein inserts which means they are rebuildable, and revalveable in the UK. I expect that I'll be cutting off the bottom mounts and welding on brackets to fit the 172 uprights, so they'll need to come apart for that. I was planning on doing something with the suspension, either Koni or Bilstein, so it was likely to get pretty expensive either way. I'll know more when they get here...

Cut a wee hole in the cockpit air intake box which allowed the engine to be sat in the right place - not bolted yet as it's still only on 2 of the 3 mounts. Bolted on the 172 uprights and brakes to check the driveshaft plunge, so far it seems OK although the camber is silly with the 172 dampers. I think I'll modify the 172 uprights to fit the Twingo dampers. I also balanced the front panel in place to see if the alternator clears. It's close, so I'll think about whether to leave it, modify the bracket further, or just cut a hole in the front panel.

note the 5 lurking in the background, I think it might be sulking:cry:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/hole1.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/hole2.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ingo/hole3.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...my%20build.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...0build%202.jpghttps://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...0build%203.jpg

:eek: That looks a bit of a tight squeeze at the front Andy??

Do you think that you're going to have enough room for the OE rad or will you need a smaller custom one??

Great thread BTW, really enjoyable reading about every little step of your new project! :niceone:

Crazyyyyyyyy :smokin: looks good mate...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Steve - Raider

:eek: That looks a bit of a tight squeeze at the front Andy??

Do you think that you're going to have enough room for the OE rad or will you need a smaller custom one??

Great thread BTW, really enjoyable reading about every little step of your new project! :niceone:

---

I think the rad will be fine, it's about the same size as the original rad, but the fan is thinner.. 'keep thinking positive thoughts' :laugh:

Will you have to modifi your trans shafts or will the wheel base match the 172 with the mounting place of the engine? if running running 172 bones etc? would look crazy that...:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Will you have to modifi your trans shafts or will the wheel base match the 172 with the mounting place of the engine? if running running 172 bones etc? would look crazy that...:D

---

track width is about the same as the 172. I plan on using standard 172 shafts

my suspension isn't here yet, but I finally found a pic of the kit
http://caprico.cocolog-nifty.com/blo...0/img_5791.jpg

uses Bilstein monotubes :) never mind the length, feel the width.
http://caprico.cocolog-nifty.com/blo...0/img_5810.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

oops, looks like the cheap build has gone out of the window, just ordered a set of H&R coilovers :sad2:

---

good man :D

Not much change out of a grand:wasntme:

just been into work to pick up my ECU, it's been there since Tuesday. No obvious mods to the inside, so the unlocking is all software. £158 delivered. I'm running out of excuses for not getting on with it :scared:

No cocking around here..... should be running sunday :D.....

:eek:HOLY SH*T:eek:

Now whats what i call a conversion!!!
So just out of interest how much does an old shape twingo weigh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScottGT

:eek:HOLY SH*T:eek:

Now whats what i call a conversion!!!
So just out of interest how much does an old shape twingo weigh?

---

apparently it's 790Kg :smokin:

790 :) whats this work out at with 172 gear? dont tell me this is with :scratch:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

790 :) whats this work out at with 172 gear? dont tell me this is with :scratch:

---

no idea, it's gaining weight all the time, brakes, wheels, exhaust etc are all heavy. Gotta end up 200Kg lighter than the clio though

Still be alot lighter over a 172... give you 12months and its on plastic and diet...:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Still be alot lighter over a 172... give you 12months and its on plastic and diet...:)

---

hopefully not, I'd like it to look and sound innocuous, but occasionally I think it should sound like this :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gv3J...eature=related

A friend of mine had a 172 with afew things done to it, some tuning company or others stage whatever, and it sounded amazing, it used to growl when he put his foot down, I hated the look of the car but loved the sound of it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alister

A friend of mine had a 172 with afew things done to it, some tuning company or others stage whatever, and it sounded amazing, it used to growl when he put his foot down, I hated the look of the car but loved the sound of it!

---

good info:crap:

just took a couple of shots of the inside of the clio.

The first shows the wiring behind the dash that needs picking through for a couple of wires, well, OK, 9 wires.

Second shows some of the useless crap that falls out of a 'stripped' car :sad2:

For a quick 5 minute job this morning I thought I'd swap the clio fuel collector/pump into the Twingo. The Clio one came out without too much drama, but the Twingo one still has me stumped.

I've finally got around to tackling the engine mount, it's almost done now.

http://www.renaultoloog.nl/autosport...llner%2001.JPG

Saw this on the net andy.. perhaps a paint sceme for your sport twingo...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

http://www.renaultoloog.nl/autosport...llner%2001.JPG

Saw this on the net andy.. perhaps a paint sceme for your sport twingo...

---

:chuckup:

This is gonna be so great, can't wait to see it run...

You good a wiring it up cookie ? Feel free to do my volvo loom :cooter:

wiring? nothing to it:scared: I've got pages of notes, think it'll be pretty straight forward.

finished the welding on the mount, think it'll do, need to get some bolts of the right length.

Ha first pic, welding over a can of brake cleaner :rob:

That mount looks good mate, i reakon u wanna crank up the amps on your welder and run another bead of weld across the top and bottom of that pole where it joins to the flat plate... Then engine kicks out some power - dont want it falling out at 100 mph lol :D

oops, a real welder checking out my pigeon strike :laugh:

That was welded on maximum, it's pretty thick steel for my hobby welder. I was thinking about adding some verticals, not sure, may still do. I have the rear mount to remake tomorrow, I'm going to convert it to underslung so that I can use the 172 manifold unmodified.

Andrew, are you not going for the 182 manifold over the 172 manifold?

Good work, Can't wait to see it finished:agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

Andrew, are you not going for the 182 manifold over the 172 manifold?

---

172, 2 reasons, 1st, it's what I've got. 2nd, I wasn't sure how much butchering was needed, more pipes will be more butchering, it's hard enough to fit as it is. I'm trying not to get sucked into the clio tuning world of spending £100 to get 3hp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

172, 2 reasons, 1st, it's what I've got. 2nd, I wasn't sure how much butchering was needed, more pipes will be more butchering, it's hard enough to fit as it is. I'm trying not to get sucked into the clio tuning world of spending £100 to get 3hp.

---

Good idea, 182 manifolds swap hands for around £250hp!

I think the 182 manifold take up less room than the 172 manifold... hence the idea...

Cant remember tho, i had a 182 manifold but couldn't be arsed to fit to the 172.

I only paid £80 for mine tho, you can get them alot less than £250 that they go for on cliosport...

Is the 182 mani the same as the RS? or the ported jansport?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Is the 182 mani the same as the RS? or the ported jansport?

---

intake, not sure, mine isn't an RS inlet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

oops, a real welder checking out my pigeon strike :laugh:

That was welded on maximum, it's pretty thick steel for my hobby welder. I was thinking about adding some verticals, not sure, may still do. I have the rear mount to remake tomorrow, I'm going to convert it to underslung so that I can use the 172 manifold unmodified.

---

I aint dissing it mate, just saying you wanna run another couple of runs accross either side just keep building it up untill the weld is level with the pole if ya get me...

Credit to you thou mate, this is one very interesting topic and cant wait to see your wiring progress, this really is gonna be one pocket rocket... :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TURBO'D CLIO

I aint dissing it mate, just saying you wanna run another couple of runs accross either side just keep building it up untill the weld is level with the pole if ya get me...

Credit to you thou mate, this is one very interesting topic and cant wait to see your wiring progress, this really is gonna be one pocket rocket... :cool:

---

it's all good, I appreciate the input. Half of the reason for this thread is to provoke comment :)

This morning's project... rear mount.

A few days back I noticed that there was a block of ballast hidden inside the subframe, it was built in, and much as it offended me I decided to ignore it. In moving the engine mount to the bottom of the subframe I decided to weld in a thicker plate, this presented the opportunity to open the frame up and remove the offending ballast - NVH be dammed :laugh:

pictures:

- opening up the subframe
- removing the ballast
- assorted ballast removed so far
- subframe plate welded
- rear mount started, part R5 mount, part 2x1 box

my suspension turned up from Germany today, off to the pub to celebrate :laugh:

:cool: cooooooooolllllllllllllll.....

Get on with it Cooke!!!:agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Get on with it Cooke!!!:agree:

---

should be running by Sunday :laugh:

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...0&d=1240150786

Thats a nice tidy job there mate, good work...

This is gonna be a mad project, those coil overs look fat.... :niceone:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

should be running by Sunday :laugh:

---

Easter Sunday, 2012 ? :dearme: ;)

Is it running yet then Andrew?

I asked my friend about the clio 172 he used to have, he was as useless as me about info. All it had was aftermarket filter in standard box, make unknown, a stainless exhaust, make unknown(had factory cat fitted still) and a remap, apparantly was 190bhp, sounded great tho.

The one thing I noticed was that the inlet manifold got really hot, I know the japboys fit thermal gaskets on type r manifolds to stop this, not sure if the same thing can be done on the 172.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alister

I asked my friend about the clio 172 he used to have, he was as useless as me about info. All it had was aftermarket filter in standard box, make unknown, a stainless exhaust, make unknown(had factory cat fitted still) and a remap, apparantly was 190bhp, sounded great tho.

The one thing I noticed was that the inlet manifold got really hot, I know the japboys fit thermal gaskets on type r manifolds to stop this, not sure if the same thing can be done on the 172.

---

Hill Power (or something like that) do PTFE gaskets. Just keep the throttle open and let the airflow keep it cool :D

nice little project you've got going here.

not sure the cliosport lot will like it though, no silver visions, yozza exhaust or turinis!

so is this going be your daily runner and how long do you think it's going to take to finish it competely?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky nicky

nice little project you've got going here.

not sure the cliosport lot will like it though, no silver visions, yozza exhaust or turinis!

so is this going be your daily runner and how long do you think it's going to take to finish it competely?

---

are ya gonna cover it in GDI stickers and 'detail it' so that you have more chance of getting it on cliosport?

Cliosport may grow to love it :D

It will be a daily driver, as to how long it'll take to complete, I doubt it'll ever be complete, but I'd like it running ASAP.

I've been a bit distracted recently:hump:, but hopefully I can play a bit without without being distracted over the bank holiday, ok, well, maybe get some time off to play.:rolleyes:

I recieved the engine mounting bolts, so could finally tighten the engine mount. The rear mount still needs finishing (still not managed to get a suitable mount to modify). The rear 'mount' is sat on a jack so that I can still play a little with the final position. The exhaust was a bit close to the floor, so I leant the engine a bit further back, and the exhaust now looks perfect, it's also given me a bit more space around the front of the engine.:agree:

The gearlinkage clashes with the cat, so it looks like I'll be using the 172 linkage as that fits tighter to the floor than the Twingo one.

I've also been playing with the fuel pump/collector/regulator. The PH2 172 has the regulator in the tank, I'd hoped to just drop the 172 collector into the Twingo tank, it's not as easy as that as the Twingo tank has walls around the pickup that clash with the clio collector. I'm not sure if the tanks are close enough in depth to allow the 172 collector to be used if I cut the walls out . I'd hoped that I could graft the regulator on the twingo collector, but it's moulded in, so not really possible. So, I have a few choices:

1 - cut out the walls and use the 172 collector - need to confirm depth, and I'm not sure how sucessful the cutting will be...

2 - get a PH1 fuel rail and regulator and use the Twingo collector (maybe with the 172 pump fitted - if it will fit)

3 - fit a 3 bar regulator on the bulkhead keeping the PH2 fuel rail, and the Twingo collector.

Anyone got any useful bits or suggestions?

Pictures show the plenum dropped onto the engine with the engine in it's new reclined position, there are cms to spare, and it looks like the bonnet will not need to have a bulge :) Not much space to get the inlet pipe in, but a bit of hacksaw work will see something fitting..

Surely options to 2 and 3 make the most sense as it will allow you to keep the standard fuel gauge?If you did manage to fit the 172 tank sender/pump/regulator unit into the twingo tank you'd have to run an aftermarket fuel gauge and I thought you didnt want the dash cluttered with extras?Plus option one sounds like a right arse ache.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Not much space to get the inlet pipe in, but a bit of hacksaw work will see something fitting..

---

You know i kinda admire you in the way that nothing bothers you one bit, if it don't fit you will make it fit.. Thats the exact attitude you need on a project like this and so far it looks impressive...

When you take the twingo sender unit out is there a pump strapped to the side of the sender unit ?
Just i know where there is a company who does after market higher flow fuel pumps to the exact size of say your twingo one... :agree:

Rob

Andrew, in my trip to my local scrappy today looking for ICV to which I had no success as it looked someone had already pilferd them all:crap: (will just control idle with the throttle body adjuster for the accelrtor for now) anyway I managed to get a bosch 3bar fpr and the clip that goes in the phase 1 rail if you want them there yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Andrew, in my trip to my local scrappy today looking for ICV to which I had no success as it looked someone had already pilferd them all:crap: (will just control idle with the throttle body adjuster for the accelrtor for now) anyway I managed to get a bosch 3bar fpr and the clip that goes in the phase 1 rail if you want them there yours.

---

that'd be great, I don't suppose you managed to get the bit of fuel pipe with the joiner for the fuel rail? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

that'd be great, I don't suppose you managed to get the bit of fuel pipe with the joiner for the fuel rail? :D

---

I got about 5-6" of the small bit of the pipe that has the push on type fitment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I got about 5-6" of the small bit of the pipe that has the push on type fitment.

---

I'm a bit lost, can you take a picture?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'm a bit lost, can you take a picture?

---

Let me go find the camera:cooter:


Edit - Picture added

that's perfect, you're a star :)

Running yet andrew ? :cool:

I've been a bit slack on the 'actual work' front, but have been gathering a few odds and ends. Thanks to James for the requlator, clip, and pipe :) I bought a 172 PH1 fuel rail from Renault, this moves the regulator from the tank to the engine, and allows me to use the Twingo collector with the 172 pump in the tank. I also bought a new Twingo fuel filter, and 172 Cup rear brake pressure regulator as I intend to use the 172 rear brakes without ABS. I also bought some 8mm ID fuel pipe to make up the fuel lines, unfortunately I screwed up the size of the clips, so need to get some more of the right size :ashamed:

This evenings 'actual work' has been making up parts for the rear engine mount. But first I did the nice easy job of fitting the top mounts onto the front coilovers - turned out to be a real fiddle to get them to seat correctly, but it's done now :brickwall:

In a previous post I'd modified a GTT rear mount buy cutting and welding some 2x1 box onto it, the engine is currently sat in place with a jack under that mount, the angles have been tweeked to make the exhaust line up nicely. To make the rest of the engine part of the mount I bought a Powerflex universal poly mount - the biggest they did, and 'found' some 2" bar and some 2" box. First job tonight was to drop the box into the mill, and with a 44mm hole saw cut semicircles out of the end. Next was to bore the 2" bar out to 38mm to fit the bush, I cut the end off, and turned it down to 60mm long. Finally I turned the centre down to 44mm so that it sat nicely on the end of the 2" box. Sounds simple enough, but that took me all evening :crap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I bought a 172 PH1 fuel rail from Renault

---

You shoulda asked!! How much did that cost?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

You shoulda asked!! How much did that cost?

---

do I have to think of everything :laugh:

was about £15

I've booked the 29th off, will you be at the Pod?

I had 2 choices with the drive train, use the twingo driveshafts, hubs, and suspension, and make a caliper bracket so that the 172 brakes could be used, or use the 172 driveshafts, hubs, and brakes, adapting the hubs to 172 the Twingo suspension. I'm going to try the latter, and hopefully the 172 shafts will work out OK.

The 172 is a fair bit beefier than the Twingo stuff, the obvious differences are that the hub is 3mm thicker where the damper bolts on, uses 14mm bolts instead of 12mm bolts, and has 54mm between bolt centres rather than 52mm.

First things first, I need to machine some thickness off the 172 damper mount. I've been wondering how this could be done on my mill for a while, this is what I came up with.

-clamped a bit of tool plate in the vice, and ran a cutter over the top face to true it up.

-drilled 2x 10.5mm holes 54mm apart, tapped them M12, and counterbored 14mm dia

-made 2 steel dowels 14mm OD, 12mm ID, and pressed them into the counterbores

-sat the hub over the dowels and fitted 1 M12 bolt, this allows me to machine 1.5mm off the face where the bolt isn't, then move the bolt to the second hole to continue machining off the rest of the face. 1 bolts holds in down OK, and the dowels stop anything spinning.

-flip the hub over and machine 1.5mm off the other side in the same way.

Some inspiration for you Andy...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8.../Image1382.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8.../Image1383.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8.../Image1389.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8.../Image1391.jpg

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

did you already remove the cap from the fuel tank ? im having the same problem in my twingo turbo... lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FQ200turbo

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

did you already remove the cap from the fuel tank ? im having the same problem in my twingo turbo... lol

---

problems removing the pipes? I got them off, but have since bought a tool off ebay, not tried it yet....

like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-PRO-TOOLS-3...3%3A1|294%3A50

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

problems removing the pipes? I got them off, but have since bought a tool off ebay, not tried it yet....

like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-PRO-TOOLS-3...3%3A1|294%3A50

---

no, the cap to get the fuel pump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FQ200turbo

New poster! (less than 10 posts)



no, the cap to get the fuel pump

---

ahhh, big screwdriver and a hammer:laugh:

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

ahhh, big screwdriver and a hammer:laugh:

---

loool :D

I've not totally stopped working on it, only almost....

I've been swapping the 172 gear linkage into the Twingo to give clearance to the cat, I may still need to tweek the length, not sure yet.

The rear mount is coming along nicely, as soon as I get a free evening where I'm not roped into being a removal man, drunk, dinner guest etc. I'll have a crack at welding in on. I'll take some pics when there is something more to show.

Drilled the bottom damper mount to 14mm and offset a mm to fit the 172 hubs, I'll leave the top one until I bolt everything up and check the camber.

Added a bit more bracing to the fabricated front engine mount - it's location was a bit undefined, it won't be once I weld the bits on...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

The rear mount is coming along nicely, as soon as I get a free evening where I'm not roped into being a removal man, drunk, dinner guest etc.

---

Being a socialite seems to be hampering your progress Andrew!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Being a socialite seems to be hampering your progress Andrew!

---

tell me about it :sad:

National day is just around the corner, and I really want to play on the track.

no, I'm not going to sit in your garden eating ice cream, I'm going to do some welding....

The rear mount is now pretty much tacked in place, the new bush housing is tacked onto the subframe, and now just needs tacking onto the bracket on the engine. I'm looking forward to removing the engine and subframe so that I can weld everything the right way up. I don't like being showered with sparks :cry:

Back to being a removal man / socialite tomorrow night, but might get chance to play more on Friday evening/ Saturday morning.

Looking forward to seeing this at ND mate.

Chop chop ;)

kin'ell thats gona be a stiff rear mount!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

kin'ell thats gona be a stiff rear mount!!

---

big engine + small car = not much space for engine to flop about in :D

The poly mount is pretty thick, I can always drill holes in it to soften it off a bit, that said, I'll bet it's not as stiff as a mini engine mount. (certainly not as stiff as the mount in my GTT :laugh: )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

kin'ell thats gona be a stiff rear mount!!

---

We need to build him a REAL mount marrow!

;)

Tonights fun..

finished tacking up the rear mount.
pulled the engine out
removed the subframe
did a bit of bracket welding
checked the cam timing, it's out so I need to set it right.
pulled off the gearbox, checked the clutch, it looks to have been replaced, as has the flywheel, all OK.
removed the flywheel to check the crank seal, it's weaping, so it looks like I know why the bottom of the engine/gearbox is oily.

I have a home made cam alignment tool, if you need a loan.

I need to do the cambelt on my 172, any takers...*cough cough...SCOFF*...:laugh:

lol, drop me a pm if you need to loan it spooks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I have a home made cam alignment tool, if you need a loan.

---

I have an alignment tool, need to make something to lock the cam pullies and crank.

Any idea what the part number for the crank seal is?

PM...:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Any idea what the part number for the crank seal is?

---

77 03 087 224 CRANK SEAL M2 £14.81


Double check that before ordering though.

8mm punch or rod to lock the crank off (feed it through the block, bottom right hand corner at the front behind the star head bolt).

I have the cam locking tool, albeit home brew, or you can buy the real tool from ebay these days it seems.

But you mean the tool to lock the pulleys themselves. I've never bothered though, you find that if you de-grease the mating surfaces as you are supposed to, then lube the bolt, the pulleys do not turn as you torque them up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

8mm punch or rod to lock the crank off (feed it through the block, bottom right hand corner at the front behind the star head bolt).

I have the cam locking tool, albeit home brew, or you can buy the real tool from ebay these days it seems.

---

I've got the ebay C shaped cam alignment tool, and pin for the crank. I'll probably make something to lock the pullies, it's only a couple of triangular bits of ally and a bolt.

I've got the cam locking kit from when i did Millie's if you want a lend!? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lewis

77 03 087 224 CRANK SEAL M2 £14.81


Double check that before ordering though.

---

that number seemed to work ok, ordered the crank seal, camshaft bungs, and new bumper bolts. The seals and bungs were on the shelf, but the bolts will be in on Thursday, guess that's a road trip on Thursday lunchtime then...

I'm thinking about replacing the steering arms, trackrod ends, wishbones, bushes, and bottom ball joints.

iv'e just done the crank seal on the 225. I had to drive the seal in a couple of mm further to miss the deep scoring from the original seal. Seems to be ok.

Oh and just thought, can you do a guide andy on the procedure to do the belt etc. I bet a few peeps would be interested.:agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Oh and just thought, can you do a guide andy on the procedure to do the belt etc. I bet a few peeps would be interested.:agree:

---

its in the workshop manual marrow... HERE

nice one ashy, thatll come in handy :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

its in the workshop manual marrow... HERE

---

Ah ok thanks chief!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

iv'e just done the crank seal on the 225. I had to drive the seal in a couple of mm further to miss the deep scoring from the original seal. Seems to be ok.

---

you can do the same thing on the c1j :agree:

reached a bit of a milestone tonight, I assembled the first parts :)

Ok, it wasn't much, just fitted the crank seal and refitted the flywheel, clutch and gearbox.

Ordered some more parts today:

Wishbones with bushes and bottom ball joints
trackrods with trackrod ends
water pump

none of the bits had failed, but were feeling tired. I bought all OEM stuff rather than noname ebay stuff, cost a bit more, but I want it to last.

I hope noone expects to see bling under my bonnet :laugh:

Mr Cooke, if you're about one evenin' I may come and have a gange :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

Mr Cooke, if you're about one evenin' I may come and have a gange :D

---

give it a couple of weeks, it's a bit like an explosion in a parts factory at the moment, hopefully it'll look more like a car by then :)

Cool beans, plus it'd give me a chance to pick your brain on a couple of things :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

chance to pick your brain on a couple of things :)

---

the truth always outs eventually :D

oh i plan to take advantage of my time :D

a wee bit of fettling tonight;

the fuel tank now has a 172 pump in it, a bit of a fiddle, but it'll be OK....

I made a gizmo for locking the cam pullies in place, worked very well for undoing the nuts. It's too dark out for setting the cam timing, but it should be a doddle now:scared: I'll try and take some pics of it in the daylight.

If DHL is to be believed I'll be getting the wishbones, trackrods, water pump etc delivered tomorrow. It's a pity the weather is looking dodgy for the weekend.

I've got 172 Cam Locking tools? :innocent:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Steve - Raider

I've got 172 Cam Locking tools? :innocent:

---

so have I now :D

Less tlaking more building please:D

the cam timing decided to bite me in the bum, the wee allen key thing on the tensioner decided to snap off as I was finishing the job off - time for a deep breath and a coffee..

The mounts are now fully welded:agree:

I stripped the wishbones off the subframe, they came apart very easily, and as a bonus I can't believe how light the twingo subframe is, I can easily lift it up and over my head with one arm :sad2:

I pulled the water pump, I'm glad I ordered a new one as it looks to have been weeping from the lower drain hole. As an aside there seems to be a difference of opinion on whether you should swap the water pump when swapping the cam belt. I think I probably would in future.

Just need to work out how to get the trackrods off the rack (see https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=8966 )

Just remembered that I was going to upload a picture of my home made pulley locking gizmo

cripes, not long until national day, I need to get my finger out :eek:

tonight's jobs:

-refit subframe
-try and remove trackrods - got bored, gave up
-set cam timing, fitted covers and bungs
-fitted new water pump
-filled front engine mounts with 'tiger seal' to stiffen them up somewhat
-swapped the top mounts on the coilovers to the Twingo ones - the 172 ones looked similar, but weren't the same
-had a quick look at the alternator mount, I'm going to make the tensioning stick out of some of the bits I bought to make traction bars out of.
-got dumped

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

cripes, not long until national day, I need to get my finger out :eek:

-got dumped

---

ive got a big tent :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

got dumped

---

Sh1tter. Sorry to hear mate :(

On the bright side, at least you can now concentrate on getting your motor sorted in time for ND :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

On the bright side, at least you can now concentrate on getting your motor sorted in time for ND :agree:

---

exactly, the big push is on and I'm looking into guilt free quality shed time :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Sh1tter. Sorry to hear mate :(

On the bright side, at least you can now concentrate on getting your motor sorted in time for ND :agree:

---

Sorry to hear that matey, but as Mart says there is a bright side plenty of more time now to plough into the Twingo. Looking forward to seeing this @ Nat Day matey burning up Mallory Park.

Tonights jobs:

- swapped the trackrods, what an epic, my grips weren't really man enough, so I ended up welding lumps on to give them something to bite into. Done now, but next time I'd remove the rack and get it in a big vice.

- answered the phone, big mistake, ended up sitting through a post mortem....

- cracked on with the alternator tensioner. I refitted the loom, engine mount, and alternator to check what goes where. A bit of welding, sawing, drilling and tapping saw the tensioner roughed out. It needs a bit of detailing, but it looks like it'll work well. Finding a L/H 3/8 UNF tap was fun :sad2:

tomorrow night depends upon the weather, but hopefully I'll finish the alternator tensioner and paint some stuff.

We need photos!!:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

We need photos!!:cool:

---

lol, not much to take pictures of, but I'll take a couple when I get chance.

Just ordered a pair or Brembo HC disks and DS2500 pads, I wasn't going to bother, but I'd be a bit peeved when the brakes faded after 3 laps of Mallory.

Andrew, So looking forward to seeing this going around Mallory, wonder what it will handle like.

just on the phone to the insurance co, currently on hold...

"so, this engine change, roughly how many percent more power than the standard one does it make, 5%, 10%, 15%?"

"about 300%"

"I'll go and speak to our underwriter..."

:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

just on the phone to the insurance co, currently on hold...

"so, this engine change, roughly how many percent more power than the standard one does it make, 5%, 10%, 15%?"

"about 300%"

"I'll go and speak to our underwriter..."

:laugh:

---

:laugh:

:burnrubber:

hmmm, they don't sound interested in insuring it. Oh well, back to Flux, any other suggestions?

http://www.graham-sykes.co.uk/

Try them if you dont have much luck with others, they didn't have any problems with insuring me with all vehicle changes when Flux wouldn't insure me when I got my car at first.

who did you ring And ?

liverpool victoria ?

hic ?

i wouldnt know as i dont use either of them at the mo :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

who did you ring And ?

liverpool victoria ?

hic ?

i wouldnt know as i dont use either of them at the mo :laugh:

---

that was tesco, just on the phone to flux...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

hmmm, they don't sound interested in insuring it. Oh well, back to Flux, any other suggestions?

---

:laugh:300%

Performance Direct insured my 5 with the F4r lump with an agreed valuation. It was cheaper to Insurer than my orginal C1J with all the mods on that delcared.

the best way is ring about i suppose :crap:

how far along are you with the car, she running ?

and what day you coming up ?

OK, flux want £658 TPFT since I've only got 12 months no claims on the second car. Think I'll try performance direct, and see what happens

I hate ringing around insurance companies - last claim 1985 I think:scratch:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

the best way is ring about i suppose :crap:

how far along are you with the car, she running ?

and what day you coming up ?

---

I wasting build time on the phone, it's looking tight to get it finished, engine still on the floor... I plan to drive up on Friday, I think I'll get breakdown cover, never had it before:sad2:

HIC have always been pretty good for me ... also you should get a discount if you mention you're an RTOC member ... :)

My insurance is £400 FC, agreed £4K value ... but that is a restricted mileage classic car policy

Well, if you can get the car mobile, itll be a good test drive upto Mallory :D

If you were going Saturday, I'd meet up with you...with a tow rope and tow bar just in case.

Join the AA for around 7-8 quid a month for breakdown/recovery.

Performance Direct seem the winners to me, they reflect your NC over aswell..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Performance Direct seem the winners to me, they reflect your NC over aswell..

---

I've dropped into their pinball machine, I'm current being bounced off cushions and kicked into the thing that goes ding ding ding :sad2:

Leave it to a rainy day Andy, get building, speaking of which i really should get out of bed and hunt around some scrap yards for a z6 :ashamed:

green light insurance I am with, they beat flux and other companies by 400 on engine conversion car!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by r5 rich

green light insurance I am with, they beat flux and other companies by 400 on engine conversion car!

---

Excluded vehicles

• BMW E36 models - (E30/E46 derivatives are still acceptable)
• Citroen Saxo models
• Ford Sierra RS500 model
• Honda S2000, Integra DC2 & DC5 imports (UK DC2's are acceptable)
• Lotus Elise/Exige
• Nissan 200SX/Silvia models (All)
• Porsche (except Boxster)
• Renault Clio 172 “Cup” (non-ABS) model - (All other 172 derivatives are acceptable)
• Skoda Fabia/Octavia models
• TVR (all models)
• Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
• LHD vehicles (except Golf Rallye and Lancia Delta)
• Vehicles not listed by The Association Of British Insurers (ABI)

The above have been excluded based upon our historic claims performance with the specific models listed above - Most other Performance model vehicles are currently acceptable. We reserve the right not to offer a quotation. We are unable to offer quotations to existing customers by this method. Greenlight Insurance have been trading within the specialist vehicle Insurance market since our launch in 1996 and our target market has always been that of specialist vehicles for the enthusiast, whether it is a Modified Car, Track Car, Custom, Hot Hatch, Performance Car or Kit Car.


I guess a LHD car with parts from a non ABS clio 172 would be excluded then...

Andy, give Keith Michael Ins' Co. a call, and if possible, speak to a guy called Jeremy (Jez). He used to own a gtt, was a member on here (so mention you're an old timer from rtoc, or something), he gave me a good discount on the Evo's insurance, and might be able to sort something out for you.

just for Matt, a picture

Brembo HC disks and DS2500 pads, heavy stuff:cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

just for Matt, a picture

Brembo HC disks and DS2500 pads, heavy stuff:cry:

---

Nice!:D

What size are the discs? I could'nt believe the weight difference between standard and 285's!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Nice!:D

What size are the discs? I could'nt believe the weight difference between standard and 285's!

---

280mm I think, it's all 172 stuff

and I'm removing 239x8mm disks, so these are something like 3x the weight (I guess that ties up with having 3x the power :cool:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

these are something like 3x the weight

---

Get the drill out ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gymnast

Get the drill out ;)

---

I did think that if I didn't get around to fitting them I could attach them to a length of chain and chuck 'em out the back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I did think that if I didn't get around to fitting them I could attach them to a length of chain and chuck 'em out the back

---

or better yet ...

http://englishrussia.com/images/anchor_crash/1.jpg

Today's plan was to weld in the heater air tray, then bolt the engine in. Good plan, but it's pissing down, I've got an inch of standing water by the car.

Having given up on the welding I donned some once piece waterproofs that I bought when I had my buggy. I've been bolting stuff on, alternator, engine mounts etc. everything I bolt on now is one less thing to bolt on later. I wasn't going to look at the rear brakes until the engine was running, but since I can't weld I've been stripping off the rear beam, I need to do it to get the old exhaust off, it's nasty in the puddle... I should at least get the rear suspension fitted...

some pictures for Matt:
- new water pump, engine mount, alternator mount, and alternator tensioner
- same from another angle
- rear mount ready to be bolted on

That mount looks the danglies Andy. Will the mount stop the engine from moving too much? I desperately need something to stop my engine from rocking when the power comes on and off!

I dont think Andys engine is going to be moving much...itll pretty much be fixed from what I saw :D

Those mounts are pretty beefy too.

And, I see you've connected the alternator up on that bracket you made, that adjusting/tension/tightening arm on the alternator almost looks oe :agree: :smokin:

the mounts are going to be on the solid end..

indeed, alternator all mounted. I must confess that the idea came to me having seen Ashy's tensioner. I just need to find a 9/16 spanner to nip the locknuts up, the joints are imperial, and the 14mm won't go on.

I hope it's a bit drier tomorrow, I'm bored of sploshing about in water. I got the rear coilovers on, I think it's going to end up lower than I expected, full droop is about standard rideheight. I've not sat it on the floor as I've been trying to graft the 172 rear brakes on. The disks look a bit worn, so I've had a rummage through my spares, the old disks off the race car look almost new, and I found a set of new pads that were in the spares box when I bought the cup car in 2002 :agree:

The rear disks increase the rear track a bit compared to drums, I thought I'd best just throw one on to check clearance around the tyre. This happens to be a bit of a bonus as the tyres were rubbing on the inner arch before, and I was having to use spacers.

The first pic gives an idea how low this thing will be, it's at full droop, and already the tyre is tighter in the arch than it was previously sat on the ground...

The offset looks about perfect :)

Just a quick shot showing the rear coilover in situ.

Looking good Andy ... really looking forward to seeing this in the flesh :cool:

Coming on quick now Andrew, looking fantastic. Not long til Nat Day now matey :burnrubber:

Hmm, nice n low :D

All that talk of near standard ride height is out the window now :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

Hmm, nice n low :D

All that talk of near standard ride height is out the window now :laugh:

---

tell me about it, I was hoping it'd sit about where it is now, but when on the ground, not jacked up:rolleyes:

I'm not sure about 'getting there' everywhere I look I see stuff that needs doing.

Those dampers looked really tall off of the car as well, very strange :crap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

Those dampers looked really tall off of the car as well, very strange :crap:

---

true, but you should have seen the ones that came off, you'd think it was a Baja buggy..

just about to lift the engine in, bored of welding, it's not as nice as I'd like it, but it'll have to do, I don't have the time to keep tarting it up.

cripes, good luck getting down your driveway, never mind up it :eek:

tart it up later, if needed that is...function over form and all that jazz :agree:

look mum, no hands...

chucked the engine in, and I'm not taking it out again, it's nice to be finally putting things together.

I just tried the front legs on to see what needs machining to make them fit. Unfortunately my previous optimism that the driveshafts would fit straight on was unfounded and I'll need to get the N/S one shortened a bit. Any idea where I could get that done PDQ in a 50 mile radius?

Andrew looking at that lot, i would be concerned about the 7 days in which to finish it in!!:eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Andrew looking at that lot, i would be concerned about the 7 days in which to finish it in!!:eek:

---

what have you got to be concerned about:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

what have you got to be concerned about:laugh:

---

Ok i should have said if it was mine!!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'll need to get the N/S one shortened a bit. Any idea where I could get that done PDQ in a 50 mile radius?

---

I get mine done near Brands Hatch, if thats any good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CLARKY

I get mine done near Brands Hatch, if thats any good.

---

that's a bit of a haul from here, but I'll bear it in mind. Can they do it while you wait? That said, there must be somewhere in Coventry or Birmingham that can do it.

I`m seeing him this morning and will ask how long they take etc.

http://www.ndeclarketransmissions.co.uk/page1.htm

Based in coventry according to a telephone number search!

http://wilsondriveshafts.co.uk/compo...act/Itemid,34/
Nottingham

:o lol my geography is terrible :rolleyes:

Do you not know somebody with a big mig ? You could chop them, cut the castellation, tack them up and have someone weld them tight.

Assuming they are hollow ? If not it's cut, shut and slip some heavy tube over the join and weld that in too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Do you not know somebody with a big mig ? You could chop them, cut the castellation, tack them up and have someone weld them tight.

---

I'm not sure I'd know what I was doing, don't suppose you have any pics? I don't know anyone, but I have spotted a factory welding RSJs...

No pictures :o

If they're hollow they'll have an o.d of about 35-40mm I think. Wall thickness is about 5mm in the ones I've done. Imagine cutting a castle-top shape into each end of the cut such that they slip back together and mesh, preventing turn. You weld that up and it'll be as strong as you like. Ofcourse you have to take into account the height of the castellation when plotting where to cut, which I didn't do once and ended up with a scrap shaft after I'd cut it 5mm too short :D

Solid ones mean you have to find some heavy wall tube with an i.d the same as the shaft diamater. You cut a 45° chamfer on the ends of the cut, butt it all together and weld into the chamfer having slipped the piece of tube on first. grind it level, slip the tube over the join and weld that up tight at each end.

I thought I ought to try and splice the 172 engine loom into the Twingo today.

I connected up what I thought I'd need to fire it up, turned the key, and nothing....

To cut a long story short there's a starter motor relay that interrupts the signal from the key to the starter and is energised by an ECU inside the Clio. It's still in the clio, so I bridged out the relay, and the car now cranks. I've got oil pressure up.

The fuel pump doesn't seem to run, I strapped the relay input that is normally controlled by the ECU, and the pump ran. 2 leaks, one from the FPR which I fixed by swapping in the one that normally lives in the clio tank, the other is the return to the tank in the top of the tank, not looked at that one yet.

So, it won't start, the fuel pump won't run, I have a horrible feeling that the ECU may be the problem, I think my next job is to get the OBD working so that I can look at what's going on. Oh yeah, I can hear the fbw throttle 'singing', so something is going on in the ECU.

Before I worry about electrics I'll get the rear disks and calipers bolted on, I need to drill and tap some M8 threads to M10, outside of that it should be pretty straight forward. Well, until I try and get the handbrake working.

Have you gone through the ECU plug and checked for the right conditions on the important pins ? Earths, battery lives, ignition lives, volts on the relay o/p's etc ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Have you gone through the ECU plug and checked for the right conditions on the important pins ? Earths, battery lives, ignition lives, volts on the relay o/p's etc ?

---

not yet, I'm bored of electrics for today, I'd rather do the brakes in the dark :sad2:

I got somewhere mounting the rear disks tonight. Fortunately the 172 and the twingo have bolt on spindles, I optimistically thought I could just unbolt all the clio stuff and fit it to the Twingo. Well, that's almost the case except that the Twingo spindles hare fixed with 4xM8 bolts, whereas the Clio uses 3xM10 and 1xM8. I started on the left as I'd already stripped drum off, it was a bit of a fight to tap out the rear beam, but I managed it Ok, and even slipped a bit of shim behind the spindle to add a bit of negative camber. The left went together OK.

Then I started on the right, the drum was coming off OK until one of the M8 bolts sheared off, and Sods Law it was the one that I need to keep M8. Managed to tap out the other 3 to M10 without a problem, but have so far failed to budge the sheared off bolt. I'll try welding a nut onto it tomorrow to see if I can pull it out...

Before anyone asks how much -ve camber I have, I don't know, but some....

Andy if you manage to pull this together for ND i think cold beers will defo be on the cards at the end of saturday.....:agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Andy if you manage to pull this together for ND i think cold beers will defo be on the cards at the end of saturday.....:agree:

---

if I'm still alive by ND cold beers will be on the cards:cool:

just posted this on cliosport

I'll try and remember everything...

ECU has been converted to 'free running' by ECU Clinic. I'm using the 172 engine loom, and ECU, I've connected the throttle pedal, in the R67 connector I've connected:

white 1 - starter +
white 2 - ign switch position 2 (12V)
white 3 - fuel pump
white 6 - ign switch position 1 (12V)
white 7 - gnd for starter relay

blue 1-6 - throttle pedal

black 2 - alt light
black 5 - oil pressure light
black 8 - CAN-
black 9 - CAN+


When I switch the ignition on I can hear/feel the fbw throttle singing.

The fuel pump/ignition relay doesn't energise - if I pull the ecu line down the pump runs.

I've checked for gnd on ecu pins 3,28,33,67

I've checked for 12V on ecu pin30

I've checked for switched 12v on ecu pins 29 and 66

I have an Ebay elm327 obd reader, and using EasyOBDii software, it connects, and says the "vehicle data bus OK", but says "no vehicle response / connection or power" however I can hear a relay clicking away as it tries to connect.

any idea what's missing? or what else I should check?

thanks
Andy

Welding a nut onto the sheared off bolt worked a treat, so now both rear disks and calipers are fitted with their camber shims. I still need to sort out the brake hoses, pressure regulator and handbrake cables.

I pulled the front calipers off the Clio, and placed them on the front with the old disks. I removed the old pads, and looking at the face I'd have said they were a rotten old bit of steel rather than the pad material that I knew they were. I guess it's just as well that I bought the new disks and pads.

have you seen this andy ?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=444945

nutz:devil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mudslinger

have you seen this andy ?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=444945

nutz:devil:

---

that's fecking insane I actually quiet like

well he has 1 day to complete it!! :D

Stupid question, but what did you do with the old twingo engine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Os8472

Stupid question, but what did you do with the old twingo engine?

---

it's sat on the floor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

it's sat on the floor

---

PM for you

Did you get it there Andrew?

No but the Delica was doing the deed on track :laugh:

hi andy did you sort the electrics,is the twingo finished yet:scratch:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rat1

hi andy did you sort the electrics,is the twingo finished yet:scratch:

---

I'm expecting the ECU back soon, although I don't have much hope of it working. I'm going to pull all of the security stuff out of the Clio as I'm pretty sure it'll work with that lot connected. If that works I'll probably convert the whole thing to PH1 and cable throttle.

After a change of ECU and 4 long weeks ECU Clinic have accepted that the ECU was 'virginised' rather than made 'free running'. The former needs all the security stuff in the loom to work, and the latter works all alone. Apparently I get the ECU back next week....

What's the betting that it's got a map for a diesel sewing machine rather than a 172?

Anyone near me got an RSTuner to pull the map out of the ECU?

What's the betting that it's got a map for a diesel sewing machine rather than a 172?



5/4:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

After a change of ECU and 4 long weeks ECU Clinic have accepted that the ECU was 'virginised' rather than made 'free running'. The former needs all the security stuff in the loom to work, and the latter works all alone. Apparently I get the ECU back next week....

What's the betting that it's got a map for a diesel sewing machine rather than a 172?

Anyone near me got an RSTuner to pull the map out of the ECU?

---

:laugh:Had the same problem to start with on my RStuning ECU when I had the 172 lump in the 5 it had been virginalised hence it going back and having the emulator. Is it a software change on the FBW / phase 2 ECU or is it an emulator?

Have you tried the cliosport site to see if anyone has an RStuner local to you or would hire / rent to you? I believe you will need to buy some sort of code to be able to use it on a different car to what it has already been used on.

Glad to hear things are getting nearer to completion though.

I think you only need to pay the cash to reprogram the ECU, I don't want to do that, just check what's in it. Alternatively I can send it to a contact in the Renault Technocentre, and he'll interrogate the ECU.

It doesn't use an emulator, it's all software. I'm so close to going PH1 on everything, you guys have it so easy :D

http://www.tek-tronics.co.uk/product...products_id=80

You can use that emulator on the phase 1 setup after unlocking it.

Dunno if that's any help to you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clio GTT

http://www.tek-tronics.co.uk/product...products_id=80

You can use that emulator on the phase 1 setup after unlocking it.

Dunno if that's any help to you

---

as I said, the PH1 guys have it easy... still waiting for my ECU to come back...

Just caught up with this project. I wish you were nearer the midlands mate. GL with the rest of the build. :agree:

OK, that's it, the PH2 fbw throttle ****e is coming off, and it's getting converted to PH1, just need to find all the bits. Ordered my emulator today, ECU Clinic are sending me my money back, and I'm pissed off.

Anyone know the easiest way to get the ECU virginised?

http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/D...ledProduct=519

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

OK, that's it, the PH2 fbw throttle ****e is coming off, and it's getting converted to PH1, just need to find all the bits. Ordered my emulator today, ECU Clinic are sending me my money back, and I'm pissed off.

Anyone know the easiest way to get the ECU virginised?

---

Flash a new map onto it with RS Tuner and then it'll be virginised, if you ask around you might be able to borrow one and get a licence for 50 EURO.

Failing that I might sell you my Ph1 ECU with emulator that has a standard map on it

I don't know anyone with an RSTuner, and they haven't had stock of new ones for ages. I'd quite like to buy one as it has quite a few features beyond just remaps.

i had one before i went omex, could do fault code checks and test most of the things in the car, good bit of kit

Come on Andy think it's about time you gave us an update:D.

Let me see f4r was in and running you got bored and took the f4r out and squeezed a 3.0 v6 in the back.:coffee:

Whats happening Andy... must be an update soon...:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Whats happening Andy... must be an update soon...:confused:

---

you'd have hoped so wouldn't you :laugh:

I've got my RS Tuner and and emulator, just trying to get the bits and bobs to convert it to cable throttle, it's only money :cry:

now the days are getting longer and warmer:scratch: I'm going to try and get some more done, but my old bones aren't keen on working in the snow:sad2:

If youve got the engine mounted in place, itl only take a short while to bolt the stuff on, connect loom and plug emulaed ECU in...it should run nice then!

I ran out of excuses today, so finally did a bit more to the car.

Not much has happened with the engine, I've removed all the PH2 stuff, got a PH1 ECU and engine loom, just waiting for a PH1 plenum, throttle body and idle speed control valve to turn up.

I've removed the N/S driveshaft to shorten it and modified the Twingo suspension to fit the modified 172 hubs. The OS corner is now bolted on for hopefully the final time, the new 172 disks are on, and the new pads are in the 172 calipers.

I've set it up with a bit of negative camber, not sure how much, but it looks about right.

The pictures show the suspension compressed, so it's pretty much at the correct rideheight. It should look almost standard...

a little bit of a poke around today, I had to make an extension for the handbrake linkage, no idea how I need an extension when using clio cables, but there you go. I made a threaded spacer, and welded it to the cut down clio part and threaded onto the cut down twingo part, maybe the pic explains better.

I made up new brake hoses for the rear, then decided that the only space for the rear brake compensator was under the servo, so I guess I'm going to just make all new lines. The rubber hoses felt a bit stiff, so I decided to go for braided ones, a quick look on ebay Germany found a twingo set, and ordered them. I'd already confirmed that the Twingo fronts worked fine with the 172 calipers.

So, not much achieved, but it's another 'system' on the way to working. I'm hoping to get another day working on it over the weekend.

Good to see your cracking back on Andy... :agree:

Like this project a lot, proper wheel in each corner job, www.looneytunecarbuilds.com:wasntme:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Good to see your cracking back on Andy... :agree:

---

I was thinking the same, shocking that I've dragged it out so long... I've set my heart on taking it to La Vie en Bleu at the end of May. That crazy plan came out of persuading a guy at work to get his Delage ready for the same event, the difference is that he only needs to put his gearbox back together, and he's on a 6 month sabbatical :crap:

Oh, and I lose 2 weekends in May going on holiday...

Cant beat a good target... even better get it to rtoc pod day...:coffee:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Cant beat a good target... even better get it to rtoc pod day...:coffee:

---

love to, unfortunately that's when I'm away :cry:

Arrrrrrrrrr you going to miss me take all Scoffs pinks home... :p

another couple of small steps.

I've got the gear linkage working, what an epic, it's based on a 172 one, but cut into 5 bits and tacked back together. I began to think that I'd never get it working :(. I also fitted my short throw gearbox linkage thing, I'd previously had it on the GTT, so I'll need to do something for that when I get it back together. I've also fitted the Twingo knob and gaiter onto the 172 gear lever, so that all looks OE now.

I lashed up an exhaust the the twingo system is now fitted onto the back of the 172 CAT, it's a bit of a bodge, but it should get it an MOT. I'll get something nice made up once it's up and running. By nice I mean stainless, quiet, and hopefully with a hidden tailpipe - I can't go giving the game away by having a big lairy pipe hanging out the back.

I think the next job is to get the PH1 172 engine loom fitted in preparation for the plenum etc turning up. That said, it might be easier to do the brake lines without the loom in the way. Something to ponder on...

Somehow along the way I've been suckered into buying an RS lower inlet manifold, the ports are bigger than the standard inlet and supposedly worth a hp or so. It came in a natty yellow colour, so out came the nitromors and I gave it a bit of a clean, it's not done yet, but getting there.

are you gonna run the original lower inlet then change it over or just swap it over without seeing if you notice the difference of a hand picked, best of the best, inlet selected only for the cup model fitted in dieppe? :laugh:

was looking into matched inlets but not sure if the cost will out weigh the gains but seeing you've invested means there must be something in it but on the other hand you seem a little sceptical?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky nicky

are you gonna run the original lower inlet then change it over or just swap it over without seeing if you notice the difference of a hand picked, best of the best, inlet selected only for the cup model fitted in dieppe? :laugh:

was looking into matched inlets but not sure if the cost will out weigh the gains but seeing you've invested means there must be something in it but on the other hand you seem a little sceptical?

---

I'm certainly not doing any back-to-back testing.

I've just taken a few rough measurements, my engine is a PH2 172, I've got a PH1 plenum coming so it'll be interesting to compare.

The RS lower is a different casting to the std one, neither manifold has as big a cross section as the head, the RS is about 1/2 way between the standard manifold and the head. Both lower manifolds keep the same section along their length - this is important as the matched stuff I've seen is only ported at the ends...

The upper manifold has tapered ports, in my case it's final size is much as the standard bottom. However, the taper means that it matches the RS lower about 30mm in, so easily matched.

From what I've seen I'll probably use a std RS lower, and match the top to it.

Sounds like a plan, I've not compaired any of the difference of the different phases but from the research I've done it seems as though the cable throttle is the better of the two and as you say the rs lower is the better option.

Have you given much thought to the induction set up? The v6 airbox with itg filter directly fitted to the throttlebody without the 90* bend seems to be a popular choice as is fitting a ph1 airbox instead of the ph2?

I'm resisting the urge to play with my Clio, keep telling myself I've got to finish my 5 gtt first so looks like it will be staying near enough standard for awhile! :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky nicky

Sounds like a plan, I've not compaired any of the difference of the different phases but from the research I've done it seems as though the cable throttle is the better of the two and as you say the rs lower is the better option.

Have you given much thought to the induction set up? The v6 airbox with itg filter directly fitted to the throttlebody without the 90* bend seems to be a popular choice as is fitting a ph1 airbox instead of the ph2?

I'm resisting the urge to play with my Clio, keep telling myself I've got to finish my 5 gtt first so looks like it will be staying near enough standard for awhile! :laugh:

---

it's more a case of what will fit in the space available, certainly the PH2 won't go, I don't know how I'm going to fit the throttle cable as that'll go straight through the wiper motor :sad2:
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1249830845

see the attached image for a more complete fitment

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

it's more a case of what will fit in the space available, certainly the PH2 won't go, I don't know how I'm going to fit the throttle cable as that'll go straight through the wiper motor :sad2:
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1249830845

see the attached image for a more complete fitment

---

Looking good Andrew, maybe you could mount the phase 1 throttle body upside down to give you clearance for the cable:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Looking good Andrew, maybe you could mount the phase 1 throttle body upside down to give you clearance for the cable:)

---

Just what I was thinking :agree:

Have your bits arrived from Andyrg yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Just what I was thinking :agree:

Have your bits arrived from Andyrg yet?

---

that was something I was going to try, assuming that it's possible to do.

Nope, no bits, I've re-bought them off someone else, so should have the missing bits before the weekend.... don't hold your breath...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

that was something I was going to try, assuming that it's possible to do.

Nope, no bits, I've re-bought them off someone else, so should have the missing bits before the weekend.... don't hold your breath...

---

Yeah it is possible I remember seeing a picture of Andrew Warren's rear wheel drive 172 5 and he mounted the TB upside.

Found one of Andrew's pic's you can see Ph1 TB upside down
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74...sepipesfor.jpg

yep and here's a couple of other pics.. I lobbed the circled thing off to give better clearance.. I don't seem to have any problems. Although I do have an airleak somewhere which I need to investigate.. anyone know the stuff you spray on to find airleaks..

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_O8F_tDzuhXI/S6...tle%20body.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_O8F_tDzuhXI/S8.../Image0058.jpg

what's the difference between the ph1 and ph2 manifold?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allanr5gtt

what's the difference between the ph1 and ph2 manifold?

---

PH1 is cable throttle with an idle speed control valve, no idea whether there are any porting differences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

:agree:

Have your bits arrived from Andyrg yet?

---

I am refunding Andrew with the full money, As per phone call last week. Im not using DHL P2G again, there a total piss take.

On That note andrew the money will be refunded via PayPal before friday, i get paid thursday.

Much appoligies for the hasstle and grief caused, Some thing thats made me look like a right ****!and it was not my fault !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyrg

I am refunding Andrew with the full money, As per phone call last week. Im not using DHL P2G again, there a total piss take.

On That note andrew the money will be refunded via PayPal before friday, i get paid thursday.

Much appoligies for the hasstle and grief caused, Some thing thats made me look like a right ****!and it was not my fault !

---

don't talk to me about DHL Parcel to go.... they aren't the same as DHL, DHL collect and drop off at work daily, same chap, knows the score. Parcel to go just don't pick up, promise to collect "tomorrow" for about a week of daily nagging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

don't talk to me about DHL Parcel to go.... they aren't the same as DHL, DHL collect and drop off at work daily, same chap, knows the score. Parcel to go just don't pick up, promise to collect "tomorrow" for about a week of daily nagging.

---

Is this the case?? Do you think there is any point in making a compaint???

Ive only used them a few times, never had issues till now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyrg

Is this the case?? Do you think there is any point in making a compaint???

Ive only used them a few times, never had issues till now

---

They certainly need a rocket up them, your stuff has been with them for ages.

Good news is that my second source plenum has arrived, so I can carry on putting the engine together. I still want your parcel to turn up though as it's got Steve's head in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

yep and here's a couple of other pics.. I lobbed the circled thing off to give better clearance.. I don't seem to have any problems. Although I do have an airleak somewhere which I need to investigate.. anyone know the stuff you spray on to find airleaks..

---

presumably you blocked the hole off afterwards? Where does that pipe normally go? The engine breather pipe of the top of the head?

Now I have my plenum I can see how the linkage will fit, I'm sure there'll be a way to make it work.

yes, I used a bit of silicon.. I must check if that's still in place

The braided brake hoses just arrived from Germany, all being well I'll make the brake pipes and have working brakes by the end of Saturday.

well, that all went to plan.

Stripped off the original brake pipes first thing, then managed to mount the clio cup brake pressure regulator under the servo, it actually looks quite at home there. Made up the new brake pipes, fitted with the new braided hoses, bled the brakes, adjusted the handbrake. Job done.

The Twingo now has a fully working 172 Cup braking system :cool:

I spent a few hours tidying up the PH1 engine loom last night, it's almost done, and I can fit it now that the brake pipes are fitted. If all goes well I'll start the engine next weekend :laugh:

Unfortunately I'm off out now for the rest of the weekend, it's a pity, I'd like to crack on and get the wiring finished.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

well, that all went to plan.

Stripped off the original brake pipes first thing, then managed to mount the clio cup brake pressure regulator under the servo, it actually looks quite at home there. Made up the new brake pipes, fitted with the new braided hoses, bled the brakes, adjusted the handbrake. Job done.

The Twingo now has a fully working 172 Cup braking system :cool:

I spent a few hours tidying up the PH1 engine loom last night, it's almost done, and I can fit it now that the brake pipes are fitted. If all goes well I'll start the engine next weekend :laugh:

Unfortunately I'm off out now for the rest of the weekend, it's a pity, I'd like to crack on and get the wiring finished.

---

How does the clio brake regulator work Andrew? How are you able to mount it at the front of the car?

the regulator is just that, it limits the pressure to the rear brakes, the cup one doesn't have a load arm.

Spooky has lent me his ECU, so I can fire up the engine in advance of sorting mine out :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

the regulator is just that, it limits the pressure to the rear brakes, the cup one doesn't have a load arm.

Spooky has lent me his ECU, so I can fire up the engine in advance of sorting mine out :)

---

Feck me that ecu gets around :laugh: guarented working though :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

the regulator is just that, it limits the pressure to the rear brakes, the cup one doesn't have a load arm.

---

So how does it regulate mate? Is it a screwin jobbie? Like a incar boost controller?

Most of my car parts get used and abused even though my car is off the road :laugh:

Anytime Andy & fingers crossed she fires up soon :D :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

So how does it regulate mate? Is it a screwin jobbie? Like a incar boost controller?

---

there is a screw, but it's factory set. It works just like the GTT one.

Some pictures that look much like some previous ones, but this time it's with a PH1 plenum, loom etc. Tonight's little task was to fit the loom, non-yellow RS lower inlet, PH1 upper, and generally stand around feeling cold. It all looks reasonable, the throttle linkage is currently off, I think I'll trim the wiper motor bracket so that I can use the standard clio bits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

there is a screw, but it's factory set. It works just like the GTT one.

---

:agree: thanks! I know you said above that there are no gains over the GTT one but dont you have less of a problem with it siezing up?

Car looks like its coming together nicely :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

:agree: thanks! I know you said above that there are no gains over the GTT one but dont you have less of a problem with it siezing up?

Car looks like its coming together nicely :)

---

it won't seize as it doesn't move, just like the GTT one won't move if you lock it in position.

Engine fired up last night, on the button, no drama :)

just ignore that I first tried starting it in August... :sad2:

Good to hear progress. Well done.;)

it does run, honest. Hunts a bit, don't know why, maybe it'll sort itself out once it's done a bit more running?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgnO2HP5kAs

A couple of general pictures, I think I just need to hot glue the rad to the front panel, I'm bored of making brackets now. I wish I'd kept whatever held the rad to the front panel in the 172.

General shots showing all the free space available.:(

Some good news though, I'd been concerned that the speedo was showing speed when I started it before, no problem, it's on stands and the driveshafts were spinning in neutral :)

The temp sensor on the front of the block maybe fubarred, just pull the coupler off and see it improves it :)

Progress i like to see... :D

Andy, nice overalls :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

Andy, nice overalls :D

---

you should see my quilted winter overalls :laugh:

oh, and my one piece waterproof jobs:sad2:

good show bud, what happened to the clio shell?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

good show bud, what happened to the clio shell?

---

crushed it in November :D

Pants, how hard was the wiring side of things? Very tempted to drop the 172 lump in the 11

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

Pants, how hard was the wiring side of things? Very tempted to drop the 172 lump in the 11

---

With the PH1 and cable throttle pretty straight forward, you want the ECU unlocking and fitting with an emulator to get around the security issues, then it's maybe 11 wires?

excelent, not too complicated then

Ade, have a butchers at my harness if you're unsure mate, not many wires needed to fire it up :agree:

I'm running out of space :sad:

I knocked up a bracket to hold the 172 rad onto the Twingo front panel from a bit of my old trailer tyre rack, fear not, it was pretty thin, and thus light;)

With the rad bolted on I tried to fit the front panel onto the car, first of all the water pipes were in the way, so I removed them and tried again. Then the clutch arm was hitting a fan support, snapped the support off and tried again. Then the fan was hitting the wiring support bracket on the gearbox, so I cut that off and tried again. Then the fan was hitting the gearbox - forkit, I removed the fan and tried again. It now pretty much fitted, although the rad hits the engine mount I made :sad2:. I'll need to cut the bracket down when I get 5 minutes, but for now the rad just about fits, albeit without pipes or fan.

It looks like I'll be able to use the Twingo fan with a custom bracket, and maybe the pipes will fit with a cut and shut.

I've sorted out the throttle cable by rotating the throttle body 90deg and using the standard Twingo cable. Unfortunately the bracket does go right where I expected to put the intake pipe and filter...

The good news is that I can still close the bonnet:D

whilst I remember I also took a couple of shots showing where the brake pressure regulator fits under the servo.

Nearly there now :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

Nearly there now :)

---

:agree:Looking good Andrew good to see the project is almost there :D

it doesn't feel like it's nearly there, there are so many small and not so small jobs left to do, and I have almost no free time before La Vie en Bleu. That said, all the driver controls work, and it's finished from the bulkhead back.

The main things left are:

cooling
LH driveshaft needs to be shortened
air filter
tidy up the wiring and pipework
MOT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Found one of Andrew's pic's you can see Ph1 TB upside down
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74...sepipesfor.jpg

---

almost the same question... should pipe 3 go to pipe 1, or should the ISCV go to pipe 1?

ISCV should go into pipe one as shown here

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83...05/icvview.jpg

I take it your inlet has the blank drilled out for the iscv.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaz2405

ISCV should go into pipe one as shown here

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83...05/icvview.jpg

I take it your inlet has the blank drilled out for the iscv.

---

yep, I've got the valve, it's just a question of whether that pipe goes to the bottom of the throttle body, or to the inlet pipe itself.

I'll have a look at my Clio but I'm sure it's the inlet.

some good news, some bad. Starting with the bad.

I tried to shorten the driveshaft to suit, it's made of tough stuff, my hacksaw wouldn't touch it, and my mill make lots of sparks and smoke as I cracked through the outer shell. It turns out that it's solid, so there's no way I can weld it. It looks like I'll have to get one made :sad:

On the plus side I got real lucky with the fan, having worked out how to adapt the Twingo fan to fit the 172 rad and miss the engine I had a search around the shed for suitable materials. I came across my old GTT fan, thinking it might be easier to fit than the Twingo one I tried it against the 172 rad. Rotated 90deg is bolted straight on. Dropped the front panel back onto the car and the fan missed the engine and all the important bits.

So, I've now fitted the front panel, radiator, and fan for hopefully the last time. I've fitted the OS headlamp, and it misses the alternator pulley by about 3mm, so that'll be one to keep an eye on. I trimmed the engine mount back to miss the radiator, so that's done. I tried the bumper on, and it needed a bit of trimming to miss the larger radiator and bracket, nothing too taxing, and that too is now fitted. Finally I refitted the bonnet lock, and that's working fine too.

Major outstanding jobs are:

tyrap and tape wiring loom
make water pipes
wire up fan
get a driveshaft
sort out my ECU so I can use it and give Spooky his back
air filter - being sorted, no huge problem
I bought a new lambda sensor, so I'll need to fit that
tracking
spanner check
errm, MOT...

I think that's it :laugh:

Give it a couple of days and the list will get longer, it always does!

Its always the little niggle jobs that take forever aswell!

Nice work

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaz2405

Give it a couple of days and the list will get longer, it always does!

Its always the little niggle jobs that take forever aswell!

Nice work

---

tell me about it, every job I complete seems to add 2 more to the list :) I just take comfort when I think of the systems that work.

Andy, keep the ECU for as long as you need it, no rush :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

yep, I've got the valve, it's just a question of whether that pipe goes to the bottom of the throttle body, or to the inlet pipe itself.

---

Pipe from the Idle control valve goes to the inlet elbow, I run mine without a hose to atmosphere as I dont have an elbow and its fine too...

The pipe under the throttle body is for the crankcase breather on the back of the cylinder head

In a moment of pure optimism today I thought that I might be able to fit the outer 172 CV onto the Twingo driveshaft to make what I needed. I got the CV off the 172 shaft OK, but when it came to removing the one off the twingo shaft I found it was a cheapo one piece affair, so no chance of swapping anything.

Flushed with failure I've been trawling the web for a catalogue listing driveshaft dimensions. This is what I found:

lengths are Left - right, in mm

R5 GTT 595 - 690
Clio 16V 605 - 705
Clio Williams 620 - 720
Clio Sport 639 - 734
R19 16V 640 - 740
Twingo I 625 - 750

Anyone got a Williams shaft lying around, or know where to find one? Hopefully I'll be able to swap a 172 CV onto that...

Andy, if you get really stuck you can send me up a shaft with details of how much to remove and I'll shorten it for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Andy, if you get really stuck you can send me up a shaft with details of how much to remove and I'll shorten it for you.

---

Cheers Chris, can you do it without increasing the OD?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Cheers Chris, can you do it without increasing the OD?

---

I could although the result may not be as tough. Normally I cut a castle top shape into each half of the shaft, inter lock them, weld and then slip a tube over the lot and weld that in to. I could do it without the tube. Would it matter if it was 6/7mm bigger OD in one area ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I could although the result may not be as tough. Normally I cut a castle top shape into each half of the shaft, inter lock them, weld and then slip a tube over the lot and weld that in to. I could do it without the tube. Would it matter if it was 6/7mm bigger OD in one area ?

---

I'd hate to try and cut anything fancy on these shafts, they're seriously hard, plus being solid it'd be tricky to make any kind of shape. It was at that point that I lost interest :laugh:

I'd be concerned going bigger on the OD, the 172 shaft is already quite a bit bigger than the twingo one, and there is very little clearance to the subframe.

I've sent out an SOS to Dieppe on the off chance that there is an off the shelf shaft of the right length, seems a bit unlikely though.

Oh, I assumed the 172 shaft would be hollow like a GT. Could we not shorten a GT shaft instead ? The join can be inward of the chassis leg, I have the same problem with clearence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Oh, I assumed the 172 shaft would be hollow like a GT. Could we not shorten a GT shaft instead ? The join can be inward of the chassis leg, I have the same problem with clearence.

---

we'd need to lengthen a GTT shaft. I have an R19 shaft here that we could shorten, although I'm still not 100% that a 172 CV will fit onto a GTT/R19 shaft. I guess I need to sort that out first.

found someone selling Williams shafts

http://www.bacciromano.com/index.php...&cat2=51&mar=8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

we'd need to lengthen a GTT shaft. I have an R19 shaft here that we could shorten, although I'm still not 100% that a 172 CV will fit onto a GTT/R19 shaft. I guess I need to sort that out first.

---

soddit, the R19 shaft I have uses the same crappy cast on joint as the Twingo, so no chance of using that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyrg

I am refunding Andrew with the full money, As per phone call last week. Im not using DHL P2G again, there a total piss take.

On That note andrew the money will be refunded via PayPal before friday, i get paid thursday.

Much appoligies for the hasstle and grief caused, Some thing thats made me look like a right ****!and it was not my fault !

---

for those that have asked, no Andy hasn't refunded my money yet.

I might have a shaft, although it might be an r19 one... Will get tape measure out tonight and let you know.

Hope you get your money back as well, I know what it's like when people promise to send or refund things and never do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lewis

I might have a shaft, although it might be an r19 one... Will get tape measure out tonight and let you know.

Hope you get your money back as well, I know what it's like when people promise to send or refund things and never do.

---

I think I'm sorted, I'm expecting a williams shaft to turn up, although things have gone quiet on that front, oh, and the 172 CV I ordered turned out to be off something else :cry:

errm, you mean like Gordini cam followers :ashamed:

it finally looks like the driveshaft saga is coming to an end....
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1273693597

is it just me that had never come across a 'peek aboo party pole'?

Anyway, that's the packaging that the Williams driveshaft came in :cool:

I thought I was looking sweet when my new 172 CV arrived on Monday, and the Williams shaft was in the post. Unfortunately I found on Monday evening that the CV was wrong, I'm glad I checked straight away. I should receive the correct one tomorrow.

The Williams shaft arrive today, and this evening I popped the CV off (I'm getting good at them now :) ) I now know 100% that the 23 spline 172CV will fit the Williams shaft (these have a 21 spline CV) The length looks OK too.

All this means I can go on holiday happy that the driveshaft should fit, and the last piece of the Twingo 172 puzzle has dropped into place :cool2:

I've come across one many a time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clee

I've come across one many a time

---

next...



:laugh:

anyone know if I need to index the joint, or even how to? In my excitement to take everything apart I forgot to mark things up :ashamed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I think I'm sorted, I'm expecting a williams shaft to turn up, although things have gone quiet on that front, oh, and the 172 CV I ordered turned out to be off something else :cry:

errm, you mean like Gordini cam followers :ashamed:

---

No problems with the Gordini followers, I've got a terrible memory though...

It was the saga with a different member and the williams subframe, sorted out in the end but took months of annoyance.

Anyway, that's the packaging that the Williams driveshaft came in
-----------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, righto.

:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

for those that have asked, no Andy hasn't refunded my money yet.

---

I just saw this andrew, You received my PM i sent yesterday and replyed/.

It will be sorted by the weekend once im up and running again.

Please feel free to put a paypal dispute in if it makes you feel more secured, but i am certianly not going to run away/rip you off and make me look like a dodge ******* for £75 its just the paypal not being authorized thats caused the delay. If sending you £75 in the post via sign for will be quicker i also will be happy to do that too

Kind Regards

Andy

I got back from Italy at 3:30 this morning, since I have an MOT booked in for 9am tomorrow I've needed to finish off a few jobs. No pictures unfortunately as my camera is still on holiday.

First job was to assemble the 172 CV onto the williams shaft. That all went ok, and fitted onto the car without drama. With the hub nut loose I pushed and pulled the CV to check the plunge, it felt OK, so I bolted everything up and topped up the gearbox oil.

With the car on stands I started the engine and dropped it into gear, this produced a horrible cyclic rubbing noise. My first though was that I'd dropped a clanger and that the driveshafts were rubbing on something. A quick check showed nothing obvious, so I turned the wheel by hand, listening and looking for anything odd. The inner end of the Williams driveshaft is moving eccentrically, the joint feels OK, so I think there's a reasonable possibility that the shaft is bent :bored:. I didn't have time to strip everything down to be certain, and it'll be OK for getting an MOT.

I continued bolting the suspension together, and dropped it onto the floor. Moment of truth, I started it up and drove backwards and forwards on the drive. Tyrapped a few wires etc out of the way, fitted the missing headlight, checked it, wired the fan, and ran the engine to get it fully hot with the fan switching in and out.

I think the rideheight might need a tweek, the front looks too low to me (the suspension kit is for the 1.2L engine, so it's probably just the extra engine weight pulling it down) The rear looks a bit high, but I'm going to drive it to see how twitchy it feels, due to the lack of droop at the rear lowering will make it more stable.

I considered it washing it, but my one bucket technique requires me to have a bucket and sponge. It's so long since I've used either that I can't find them and have probably used the bucket for storing parts or draining oil...

Awesome :agree:

well, good news and bad.

It all works. It's been a while since I've driven a quick road car, at first it felt a bit slow, but once warm and using the revs it certainly picks up it's skirts and flies. More than fast enough for the lanes around here. With no air filter it makes a noise that says 'look at me', and that won't really change as I'm going to be using an open pipercross filter (it should be waiting for me at work).

The brakes need a bit of a bleed, but they work well enough.

Suspension feels OK, not too stiff. I still need to do the tracking so no heroics on that front.

Unfortunately it failed the MOT on some rust, I'm getting it patched up to get through the MOT, but really need to do a proper underfloor restoration and anti corrosion job during the winter. It's just on the turn now, so shouldn't be too bad, but needs doing right.

Overall the MOT guy was impressed, I've known him years, so spent the time to talk through what I'd done, and what I'd swapped so that he could have a good look at those areas.

Roll on Prescott this coming weekend :)

:agree: Andrew Fantastic news that she is all up and running with a few minor issues for the MOT. You'll have to get some pics up so we can all see how she now looks sitting down on all wheels and any vids you have of driving.

Think you haven't yourself a nice cuppa:coffee:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

:agree: Andrew Fantastic news that she is all up and running with a few minor issues for the MOT. You'll have to get some pics up so we can all see how she now looks sitting down on all wheels and any vids you have of driving.

Think you haven't yourself a nice cuppa:coffee:

---

Thanks James :)

Do you know what map is in the ECU? it doesn't feel that great, although the Twingo peashooter might be bunging it up :D

I'm going to have to be careful in it as it's such fun giving it a big squirt, I gave it full beans on entering a 60 limit earlier, and came upon a photographer hiding in a corner trying to take a magazine type photo of a beemer coming the other way. I could see him trying to peer around me to see what was making the noise :sad2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

:agree: Andrew Fantastic news that she is all up and running with a few minor issues for the MOT. You'll have to get some pics up so we can all see how she now looks sitting down on all wheels and any vids you have of driving.

Think you haven't yourself a nice cuppa:coffee:

---

Thanks James :)

Do you know what map is in the ECU? it doesn't feel that great, although the Twingo peashooter might be bunging it up :D

I'm going to have to be careful in it as it's such fun giving it a big squirt, I gave it full beans on entering a 60 limit earlier, and came upon a photographer hiding in a corner trying to take a magazine type photo of a beemer coming the other way. I could see him trying to peer around me to see what was making the noise :sad2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Thanks James :)

Do you know what map is in the ECU? it doesn't feel that great, although the Twingo peashooter might be bunging it up :D

I'm going to have to be careful in it as it's such fun giving it a big squirt, I gave it full beans on entering a 60 limit earlier, and came upon a photographer hiding in a corner trying to take a magazine type photo of a beemer coming the other way. I could see him trying to peer around me to see what was making the noise :sad2:

---

That ecu is standard phase 1 map, it has been virginlised and also had the emulator in place aswell all works done by rstuning the blokes a member on the cliosport site aswell

i find the f4r sluggish at lower revs, once you pass about 3.5krpm it starts getting lively and after 5 it wants to go even harder. that's on a standard map not sure what gains are to be had from a remap but it's something i may look into.

if it's been reflashed by the rstuner from what i kno the preset group n remap removes the cold limiter and raises the limiter to 7.5

the 182 manifold changes the torque curve so you get a better lower range but not so great at the top so your exhaust could be having an affect on that front

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

That ecu is standard phase 1 map, it has been virginlised and also had the emulator in place aswell all works done by rstuning the blokes a member on the cliosport site aswell

---

Ahh, that sounds right, I did interrogate the reprogramming history and do recall seeing grpN in there, but didn't think it was still in. It certainly has a very odd torque curve, it just seems to climb in steps. Still, I'm very happy with it so far :)

I was showing it off at work, it went down very well, my favourite comment was 'this is the Twingo Renault should have made'

Haha, great stuff mate! Definitely get some vid's uploaded of it out on the road :agree:

So, turbo conversion? ;)

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1274725680
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1274725716

needs a bit of a clean, anyone with OCD want to pop around with your wet and dry, or what ever ones uses to clean stuff these days?

Love it. :agree: Top work at keeping it almost 100% standard looking. :cool::)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Haha, great stuff mate! Definitely get some vid's uploaded of it out on the road :agree:

So, turbo conversion? ;)

---

I'll get my photographer queued up on that one...

errm, nope, 'it's got enough power' :laugh:

good job on the car mate :)haha you could just imagine being at the lights lookin at it and having a laugh at it then before you know it the little twingo.........:burnrubber:.....a right sleeper :laugh::cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

needs a bit of a clean, anyone with OCD want to pop around with your wet and dry, or what ever ones uses to clean stuff these days?

---

:laugh:

Fantastic stuff - looks really good!

Good to hear it didn't fail on any of the complicated / expensive stuff - just a bit of welding :)

Hot news, it's now running on my ECU rather than Spooky's (James' old one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgkOCJ9PGkk

:laugh: :agree:

Haha! Awesome. Needs the optional standard fit Ronal Teddies..

I have some!

Amazing conversion Andrew :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T.K

Haha! Awesome. Needs the optional standard fit Ronal Teddies..

I have some!

Amazing conversion Andrew :agree:

---

If they're 15s I'll give 'em a go :D

it's got an MOT :D

and an ugly looking patch on it's sill :cry: it'll get fixed properly some time.

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1274991941

It all went a bit depressing when I dropped it off for welding yesterday, as I slowed down the revs stayed very high, and as I tried to find reverse all it would do was grind the gears :( I popped out and stuck my thumb over the ISCV pipe which dropped the revs right down, so it was either a stuck valve, or the ECU was holding it open. Got back in and decided to switch off, select reverse, then restart to allow it to reverse. Went to start, and nothing :(, I pushed it back, dropped the keys off with the garage, and went to work.

I had a call later to say that the battery was completely flat, and it started OK after a boost. This got me thinking. If the battery voltage was low the ECU may well try to open the ISCV to give it some charge, obviously the high revs would make reverse difficult, so the only problem I had was why wasn't it charging, and was something flattening the battery?

I popped up to the garage at lunch time to have a look around, and immediately spotted that the battery cable to the alternator was very loose and about to fall off. Tightened the nut and everything was fixed :ashamed:

This is such a great project, proper pocket rocket :) Nice sill repair :) Just needs a little paint work now :) Im sure you can sort that.

I did that with the earth from my Altinator and melted a battery

I've been a bit slack with updates, the filter was fitted a couple of weeks back, but here it is: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley4.gif

The first thing I got sorted was the air filter:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1275516692

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1275516736

I used:
pipercross filter 100mm dia 200mm long 70mm inlet
samco 90deg 70mm
70mm aluminium tube
16mm revotec barb
16mm samco flex hose

A little bit of trim got the filter sat where I wanted it, I then fitted the 16mm barb into the elbow and ran the hose to the ISCV. Job done.

I'm thinking of bonding the filter to the aluminium pipe to the 90 with tigerseal to get rid of 2 of the jubilee clips as they look a bit messy.

I'd also like to swap the blue hose from the FPR to the plenum with either an original part, or some black silicon. Drop my a line if you have anything lying around http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley1.gif

On Friday I decided to fill up with fuel to get an idea on fuel consumption. unfortunately during this fuel started pouring out of the top of the tank, so I popped home to investigate. It was easily found, some fool (that'll be me) hadn't seated the seal in the fuel collector correctly before screwing it down (whilst fitting the 172 fuel pump early in the project). Easy fix.

My completion target was La Vie en Bleu at Prescott at the end of May. I'd hoped to complete a few jobs and checks on the Saturday before, as it turned out it was a bit wet, so I just did the minimum of sorting out the fuel tank seal and running a damp sponge over the outside.

I'd arranged a spot on the Renault Alpine Owner's Club stand, and dumped it there on the Sunday morning. It languished there for a couple of hours largely unnoticed amongst it's sporty brethren. A friend of mine came along at around midday, and I popped the bonnet to let him have a look:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...antouchher.jpg

The game was up, and I soon had a few heads peering in...

Anyway, I dropped the bonnet, and left it once again in anonymity.

We got to do a convoy run, and I hoped my G/F might make a video of it, unfortunately she lost concentration once I hit the throttle, so that was that. If you have a search on youtube for 'Patrese Wife' you'll get the idea, although she had time to relax as there was a lot of traffic. She's going to love Mallory http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley4.gif

I've not done a lot since Prescott.

Swapped the bent Williams driveshaft for a straight one.

Used my first full tank of fuel, averaged ~38mpg, which was nice http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley1.gif

I've got an annoying screeching noise on the passenger side over 5Krpm, only does it when the GF is in the car, no idea what it is http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...x_ignoreme.gif

Other than that I have a little bit of touching at the rear on big bumps, so I'll need to investigate that.

I've booked in at pro-speed at the end of the month for an exhaust.

awesome, I got worried about half way through that you'd never finish it :D

I bought an RSTuner remap gizmo a while ago, it's been handy for checking sensors etc, and once I've fitted an OBD sensor inside the car I can use it for logging, making 'power curves' etc. It's been a bit of an epic making it talk to my ECU, and somewhere along the way it decided to latch itself onto Spooky's ECU rather than mine. He doesn't know yet, but we're going to be swapping ECUs :innocent: This is a bit of a downer for me as I think I have the better emulator, and I fitted it, so I know it's done right... I suppose we might be able to swap emulators depending upon what the RSTuner has latched itself on to.

I'm now almost at the bottom of my second tank of fuel, with no more problems, so I've started tidying up a few loose ends.

I bought some new number plates, GB, euro plates, the ones with the blue rectangle on the left, it's a bit poncy, but only £7.75 a pair off ebay. I wanted to pull the old plates off to clean behind them as they had filled up with crud after being stood for so long. I've stuck them on with mirror tape, not sure whether I like them or not, but for now they're fitted.

I pulled the roof trims off for the same reason, they were packed with mud and stuff, so I've saved a few grammes there. I broke a couple of the retaining clips, so they're on order with Renault, not bad at £2.25 for 12.

Whilst in the dealers I ordered a pair of new front indicator lenses as one was snapped in half, and both were faded, a bit of an extravagance, and much more than buying white, blue, or black ones of Ebay, but I'm trying to make it look tidy and original. BTW, the sales men in the dealers had a good look when I arrived, and had a 'does not compute' look when I squirted it off their forecourt.

Again, whilst buying I ordered a pair of new front window seals as mine are falling apart.

When it comes to real work, I'm just doing an oil change, 5L of halfords finest to replace the oil that was in the engine when I bought the clio :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

awesome, I got worried about half way through that you'd never finish it :D

---

You were worried? you didn't have it sat on bricks blocking your drive :laugh:

I think it might need a turbo though, the torque curve is a bit dreadful, maybe once it has a decent exhaust rather than the standard Twingo one it'll wake up a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

You were worried? you didn't have it sat on bricks blocking your drive :laugh:

I think it might need a turbo though, the torque curve is a bit dreadful, maybe once it has a decent exhaust rather than the standard Twingo one it'll wake up a bit.

---

There's space for a turbo ? :confused: :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

There's space for a turbo ? :confused: :D

---

sure, there's loads down the back.... OK, maybe not loads.

I think if I did that it'd be best to sell this one and fit a 225 engine and box into another shell. Or as a minimum do what andyrg has done, although I might just stick with the PH1 ECU and get it mapped.

Oh, and I'm not being serious :scared:

...it'd be best to sell this one...
-------------------------------------------

How much?! :D

What about a rear mount turbo :coffee:
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/p...=turbocharging

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trevhib

...it'd be best to sell this one...
-------------------------------------------

How much?! :D

---

lol, everything has it's price, and obviously if a lottery winner came along I'd sell, but at the moment I'd quite like to have a bit more fun out of it :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clee

What about a rear mount turbo :coffee:
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/p...=turbocharging

---

I couldn't find space for a brake pressure regulator out back, not much chance of me fitting a turbo there :scared:

Andy, you can do what you want to my ECU :p

Also, that lovely inlet manifold that you showed me a few months back from JMS has been released and tested with a price...not exactly pocket change :eek:...

it's only a little thing, but the blue samco pipe from the FPR to the plenum really offended me
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1277493040

Thanks to TrixNFlix popping some black pipe in the post I'm much more at peace.
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1277493040

:cool:

I've bought some more fancy toys, but you'll have to wait for them to be fitted before you hear about them :)

Off to get the exhaust made on Monday, it'll be interesting to see what difference that made, as sticking 3x design horsepower through the standard Twingo exhaust can't be good :sad2:

For the exhaust are you going to any company we'd have heard of?

Do you have a design in mind?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian S

For the exhaust are you going to any company we'd have heard of?

Do you have a design in mind?

---

possibly, Prospeed in Cardiff.

Design is quiet, and hopefully with a hidden tailpipe, depending upon what will fit in the limited space. Oh, and stainless.

What about this manifold rather than the jms one? at least with this you get a new 70mm throttle body

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Clio-Sport-172...item3efe9fcf34

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SP33DY

What about this manifold rather than the jms one? at least with this you get a new 70mm throttle body

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Clio-Sport-172...item3efe9fcf34

---

I'd want the injectors aswell at that price:crap:

I was down at ProSpeed in Cardiff on Monday morning to get my exhaust made up. My requirement was to make it look and sound as standard as possible, Charlie recommended 2 boxes and 2" pipe, so that's what I went with. I'm not sure how long it'll take the guys at ProSpeed to get over seeing a 2L engine shoehorned into a Twingo, but I'm sure they're making good progress :laugh:.

Anyway, so far I'm very happy, no knocks, or bangs, it's as quiet as I'd hoped, and looks pretty much standard.

Anyway, a couple of pics:
before
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1277836726

after:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1277836726

you'll note that the number plates got replaced between pictures :cool: and for those that might recognise it, the star of strip (Santa Pod RTOC National Day 2003) and track (Mallory Park RTOC National Day 2009), the mystery machine, is parked to the right in both pictures...

oh, I almost forgot, when we got to look underneath at the standard system the rear box had ballooned, I guess it must have been pretty restrictive :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam L

I'd want the injectors aswell at that price:crap:

---

which is why you use that mass produced Jap stuff, I'd have ripped their arm off to get a plenum that cheap for my 5.

Love this conversion, Andy do you think it would be hard to do again? Do you have any templates of your brackets you made?

Ph1 172 would be alot more easier and cheaper to use as a donor?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold

Love this conversion, Andy do you think it would be hard to do again? Do you have any templates of your brackets you made?

Ph1 172 would be alot more easier and cheaper to use as a donor?

---

It'd certainly be easier to do again as I'd know which bits to use, I'm not sure that it's an easy swap as there are quite a few custom parts. I don't have any templates, everything was made on the hoof...

Yeah, def start with a PH1 unless you have the plenum, ecu and loom lying around, plus the final drive is a 3.89 which I think would be nicer than the 4.07 I have.

Obviously the easiest swap would be to fit GTT stuff.

So how does the new exhaust fair over the standard job Andy in terms of how the car picks up, responds, revs out? Surely it's a good deal better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trevhib

So how does the new exhaust fair over the standard job Andy in terms of how the car picks up, responds, revs out? Surely it's a good deal better?

---

I've no idea, my instinct tells me it'll pick up a handful of hp at the top end, but not make much difference outside of that. It's still running the standard Cat, and that'll be the main restriction now. I couldn't give it any beans on the way back as the GF starts making funny noises over 5K, and the run to work is too short to get it warm enough to get out of the warm up map.

I guess at some point I'll have to drop it onto some rollers to get an idea of it's general health, or wire the OBD into the cockpit so that I can do some logging with the RSTuner doohicky.

btw, I've now used 3 tanks of fuel:
tank 1 38mpg
tank 2 36mpg
tank 3 38mpg

again, I need to do some comparisons between the standard map and the 'tuned' one. They feel about the same to me :scratch:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

which is why you use that mass produced Jap stuff, I'd have ripped their arm off to get a plenum that cheap for my 5.

---

Nothing is mass poduced on my car, apart from the stock parts:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

It's still running the standard Cat

---

Standard Twingo Cat or Standard 172 Cat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

btw, I've now used 3 tanks of fuel:
tank 1 38mpg
tank 2 36mpg
tank 3 38mpg

---

That's more than I'm getting from my 1.1 litre Fiat, though I don't think that has a warm up map and it does get given plenty of beans on short journeys.

std 172 cat.

I think it's the most I've ever got out of anything, that said, I'd be happier if it did a wee bit more, but I think I'll need to fit my wb to have a look at what's going on as I think the new map might be hurting the MPG.

A pal just bought a 172 and gets 40mpg, I think he said. But that mostly his wife driving on the motorway to work and back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

std 172 cat.

I think it's the most I've ever got out of anything, that said, I'd be happier if it did a wee bit more, but I think I'll need to fit my wb to have a look at what's going on as I think the new map might be hurting the MPG.

---

Mine did far far far worse on the emissions test at the MOT this year with the RSTuner (172 Ph1) Group N map on compared to last year on a standard map - the guy couldnt believe it. Still passed mind...

It does tend to stink of fuel slightly of late, wondering if ive only just noticed it though who knows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by f0xy

Mine did far far far worse on the emissions test at the MOT this year with the RSTuner (172 Ph1) Group N map on compared to last year on a standard map - the guy couldnt believe it. Still passed mind...

It does tend to stink of fuel slightly of late, wondering if ive only just noticed it though who knows.

---

I'd be surprised if it messed up the emissions at idle as that should be in closed loop at lambda 1. I'd put that down to either a lambda sensor or wiring problem (or possible cold cat, mine took a few minutes to light up, I was gobsmacked at the difference). I fitted a brand new sensor when I fitted the engine, and the signal looks perfect on the RSTuner.

The other small difference is that I'm not running the grpN map, rather the RON98 one (dated 23/09/2009, or is that the day I downloaded it???).

I wondering about trying the launch control version as it supposedly has an improved map.

Before the door got slammed shut I managed to download:
std
grp N
RON98
Launch

That's my one criticism of Henk, there is no clear indication of which maps have been tweaked where, or even whether paying £5 gets you anything different to the map currently used.

It's about time I hacked the maps and started playing with them myself, I hate dealing with experts.

Andy, how flexible is this RSTuner gubbins? Can you actually view/edit the ign, fuel, vvt maps etc, or is it just a rom-dump via one of Henk's downloaded files?

Could be Lambda then - im not running a Cat at all its just a straight through downpipe onto the exhaust, never have done. Used to run cleaner and not smell as much as it does now too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Andy, how flexible is this RSTuner gubbins? Can you actually view/edit the ign, fuel, vvt maps etc, or is it just a rom-dump via one of Henk's downloaded files?

---

you can see what is going on in real time, and dump roms, no edit possible - unless you hack the files yourself...

Hexadecimal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Hexadecimal?

---

binary

I guess it's time for an update... I've been listening to the standard top mounts knocking, so decided I'd try some roller top mounts. I don't know of any for the twingo, so got a pair of AST Clio mounts. I wasn't certain that they'd fit, but I have a lathe, so it's no bother to modify stuff if it's close.

Last night I pulled a strut off, and checked that the mount fitted the car. Perfect fit, so nothing to do there. When it came to fitting them to the dampers it was clear that I'd need to do a bit of work. I spent about an hour measuring everything and deciding which bits to modify.

In the end I decided to bore out the H+R top seat to fit the AST bearing, then shorten the AST bearing seat, and bore it out to sit right on the damper top.

before:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278167712

standard and machined parts:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278167762

after:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278167802

boring out the H+R spring seat
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278167861

all assembled:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278167933

when it came to bolting it together the top nuts only had a couple of turns of thread engaged, I decided to modify the nut to sit deeper in the bearing.

standard nut:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278168086

I dropped them into the lathe and cut the shoulder deeper into the nut, and recut the taper to ensure it didn't clash with the bearing housing:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278168187

fitted, showing much better thread engagement

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278168299

I've not driven it yet, so fingers crossed for an improvement :D

Awesome work:agree: Looking forward to seeing this in action at nd:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brigsy

Awesome work:agree: Looking forward to seeing this in action at nd:)

---

thanks :)

me too, not much left to sort out before then. I need to trim the rear arches a bit as it occasionally touches, and set the suspension up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

binary

---

Might pop down sometime next month (if you're about) and have a sniff around that RSTuner setup, if that's ok?

Is it 'locked' to one car/ecu after initial use, or plug n' play any ecu?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Might pop down sometime next month (if you're about) and have a sniff around that RSTuner setup, if that's ok?

Is it 'locked' to one car/ecu after initial use, or plug n' play any ecu?

---

sure, or national day? It's locked to an ECU (Spooky's in my case :() but you can pay to get it unlocked. In reality there isn't much to see.

:agree: Just interested to see how easy (!) it would be to modify the binary tables, and how that translates to what's logged.

I might be purchasing one myself soon, that's all. Try before ya buy & all that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

:agree: Just interested to see how easy (!) it would be to modify the binary tables, and how that translates to what's logged.

I might be purchasing one myself soon, that's all. Try before ya buy & all that...

---

I don't think you can mod the binaries the RSTuner uses as I think it scrambles them, I can send you some to play with if you want, but don't get your hopes up. I think you need to use something else to read and write to the ECU, but I'm not sure whether the ECU uses a checksum. I was thinking about buying a reader/writer and using it to download a standard and modded map from the ECU to see what's what.

I was looking at Gallello (sp) clones, but it appears that the Sirius32 needs both K and L lines working, and the clones only use the K line. I need to dig a bit deeper. I might get Scoff drunk at the National Day and see what drivel he comes up with :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

:laugh:

Why not simply go after-market? eg, Adaptronic?

---

I'll say no more :scared:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I think you need to use something else to read and write to the ECU

---

Something like KWP2000?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mart

Something like KWP2000?

---

something like, but not that, doesn't support sirius 32

this:
http://www.chiptuners.org/?p=13

but I'm reading that the clones are iffy with the sirius32, if you're getting a later car it'll be sirius34 so may be OK as they don't use the L line.

I've had a bit of catching on the rear, so decided to drive one rear onto a ramp to see what catches:
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278194694

I trimmed off the bits that have been catching, but it if ever gets this much travel I'll need to either roll, or trim a bit off the forward edge of the arch
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278194693

and a bit off the bumper edge
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1278194693

I've left it for now to see how I get on.

Whilst I had the front suspension off I took the opportunity to raise it 10mm, I felt the nose down stance made it look like some fool had dropped a heavy engine in. It's also been using the bump stops a bit too much, so hopefully those few mm's will help.

What a project from start till now ( ill not say end ;) )

a small, yet still slightly crappy clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8n3GFOh9w

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

a small, yet still slightly crappy clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8n3GFOh9w

---

Sounds good but you need to speed up your gearchanges

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Os8472

Sounds good but you need to speed up your gearchanges

---

don't stress yourself over my gearchanges :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

don't stress yourself over my gearchanges :D

---

Just messin with ya

Ace! That looks brill Andy :agree:

I forgot it would be LHD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

a small, yet still slightly crappy clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8n3GFOh9w

---

Sweet sounds good, can we have a longer clip through a set of twisteys:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rs250nut

Sweet sounds good, can we have a longer clip through a set of twisteys:)

---

not on the road, no. There should be something after Mallory :)

really do hope you can find away of mapping the stock ecu defo intrested in that ability

The optimist in me thought the springs that came with the H+R kit would be fine with the heavier engine. They're progressive rate, so should just find there own level, or maybe not...

I initially set the platforms to the standard recommended position to see how things worked out. It sat a bit nose down for my liking, but I gave it a try. Unfortunately I could feel that it was spending too much time in the bump stops on B roads giving a choppy ride. Whilst I had the struts off to fit the roller top mounts I took the opportunity to lift the suspension 10mm. This improved the ride a lot, so I was happy with that, but unfortunately something started to bang when hitting bumps in corners. It's taken a bit of investigation, but I'm pretty sure the springs are going coilbound. The problem with rising rate springs is that you don't really know what rate they are, so I've had to take a bit of a guess at a linear spring that will allow more travel, give a decent ride, not bash into the bump stops, and be a sensible height without being able to rattle on droop.... I trawled over the Eibach spring catalogue, scratched my head, considered the cost of pairs of springs that would probably be wrong and decided to buy a pair of cheapie springs off Rallydesign (60mm ID, 7", 300lb/in). Hopefully I'll have time to get them tested before I fit them as I'm not confident what rate they'll really be, but we'll see...

the spring saga continues. After a week of general disappointment in my quest for some new springs, I've finally had some success. I emailed Curtis at AST this morning to see whether he had any springs in the range I was looking for. The man is a star, no only did he have stocks of everything I was considering he was also going to be working a bit late today, so I had time to drive over to Tewkesbury and pick a pair of springs. I was sort of hoping that he'd only have one of the many options I was thinking about as that would save me having to decide which. I'd narrowed the rate down to either 40N/mm or 50N/mm, I think the 40s would work better, but the twingo has very little suspension travel, and no anti roll bar, so even though I believe the 40s to be a better rate I went for the 50s. Curtis was very patient as I ummed and arred, and went through all the numbers I'd written down one more time. I came away with a pair of 50N/mm 170mm long springs.

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1280600667
The blue spring is the H+R progressive one and the orange the new one. It was a relief to see the marking on the H+R springs that confirmed that they had been going coil bound.

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1280600667

I'd estimated that the new springs wanted about 10mm of preload to give the same rideheight as before. That worked out to be spot on.

So, good news, the new springs fit, sit the car at a sensible rideheight, and won't go coilbound. It just remains to be seen how well they work on the road, will I be smashing through the bumpstops or bounce all over the road?

I'm going to try and measure the original springs at work, it'll be useful to know at what load they go coilbound.

I did something today which would have been useful to have done before buying new springs, but being a daily driver I couldn't be without it for a day. I measured the rising rate springs that came with the H+R kit. A plot first, then I'll explain what's what.

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1280774631
The plot is spring travel in mm against load in Newtons, I've zeroed everything so that 0mm is static ride height and 0N is with the 2150N of static load removed. As you go up the vertical axis you're going into bump, and down droop. There is only 33mm of droop available, and at 27mm of bump you start to get into the bump rubbers. Ideally I'd have removed a bump rubber to measure that too.

Looking at the rising rate spring first, at 45mm of bump it goes coilbound, the suspension was getting this far on mid corner potholes and banging most horribly. This is still 18mm into the bump rubber.

Then the 40N/mm linear spring, this is the kind of rate you'd expect on a tarmac rally car, and where I'd like to have been, as you can see it's a lot like the progressive spring in bump, but has more travel so won't go coilbound. It would drive much like the original H+R spring, but without going coilbound (this 170mm spring has 18mm more compression available than the standard progressive one).

Finally the 50N/mm spring. It doesn't feel too bad on the road, I think this is because it's not going so hard into the bump rubber. I don't like the choppy feel of the rubber, and certainly the car feels less disturbed by bumps.

All in all I'm happy with the 50N/mm springs, I wouldn't mind trying the softer ones out of interest, but it's not that important, I think I'd rather play with the bump rubbers first.

Sat in the pitlane at Mallory I clocked exactly 190,000kms, so thought I'd take a picture for posterity. Pity you can't actually read the numbers, they're on the display in the centre of the dash.

You do get to see the impressive array of instrumentation offered by the twingo dash :)
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1281948149

How do you keep your eyes on the road with all those guages to monitor Andy? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

How do you keep your eyes on the road with all those guages to monitor Andy? :D

---

I have an audible rev counter a bit like the F1 boys, at about 5000rpm it starts to make a noise, and just before the optimum gear change point it says "Andrew" in a loud high pitched voice...

Maybe you should consider a swap with my pals mrs.

He says she constantly complains, "why didn't you over take that; go on the left; too slow missed the lights; no the right; why are you waiting...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I have an audible rev counter a bit like the F1 boys, at about 5000rpm it starts to make a noise, and just before the optimum gear change point it says "Andrew" in a loud high pitched voice...

---

I'm impressed and very jealous :D

I'd love for my car to shout my name back at me :laugh:

I've been harvesting all the pictures posted of my car at Mallory and put them all in one place. The problem is I can't remember who posted them, obviously a lot came from Penfold, but anyway, thanks to everyone who did. If you have a clip of me driving past I'd like to see it as I have no idea what it sounds like :)

http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/s...20Park%202010/

Anyway, last tank of fuel was driving to and from Mallory, probably 20 laps and a drive down to London returned 39mph, you can't help but appreciate modern engines :)

Just dropped the latest RSTuner map into the ECU, not sure why, but I thought it was worth a go.

I'm thinking about fitting an LSD, I have a gripper, so could get that rebuilt, but I'm thinking that a Quaife might be the way to go for a road car, so if anyone fancies a swap...

I've also been playing 'hunt the map' in some ECU cal files, I found some, but no idea what they are...

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1282319238

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I've also been playing 'hunt the map' in some ECU cal files, I found some, but no idea what they are...

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1282319238

---

That map looks like a klingon's forehead!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

That map looks like a klingon's forehead!!!!!

---

that might explain a lot :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Sat in the pitlane at Mallory I clocked exactly 190,000kms, so thought I'd take a picture for posterity. Pity you can't actually read the numbers, they're on the display in the centre of the dash.

You do get to see the impressive array of instrumentation offered by the twingo dash :)
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1281948149

---

thats quality andy...and i thought the cup was basic....:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I've also been playing 'hunt the map' in some ECU cal files, I found some, but no idea what they are...

---

Andy, is this Renix / Fenix ecu? If you want, send me the BIN file and the XDF you have generated and I'll compare and drop in &/or correct the table descriptions and locations for you etc - let me know what the ecu is from. As long as we line up the first table correctly the rest will drop in, I have them mapped out for quite a few of the versions / applications having spent ages grafting a later generation n/a ecu on a turbo GTA. Offer’s there bud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MFaulks

Andy, is this Renix / Fenix ecu? If you want, send me the BIN file and the XDF you have generated and I'll compare and drop in &/or correct the table descriptions and locations for you etc - let me know what the ecu is from. As long as we line up the first table correctly the rest will drop in, I have them mapped out for quite a few of the versions / applications having spent ages grafting a later generation n/a ecu on a turbo GTA. Offer’s there bud.

---

unfortunately it's the Sirius 32, I don't know if that changes things.

I'm playing with tunerpro, I can see some maps, and as you see I can get them into a 3D view. I assume that this one is ignition timing, rpm against MAP, not sure of the rpm and MAP steps though. I've also created a few tables, but what I haven't figured out is how to get the map into the table. There appear to be several ignition maps, not sure what they all are, or which one is usually used. I suppose i could guess it as the one with the most advance.

I've got to work out how the checksum works, but since I have a couple of files to look at I can probably sort that.

Yeap, it does for me, I don't know the Sirius hardware, sorry mate. From the above you've got two maps merging I think.
You will need to play around. I'm more than happy to look if you wing it over, and bounce ideas around, sometimes just nice to not be locked in
the dark on your own on these, and I know well having been doing a lot lately. Go on the WinOLS website and down load their
demo prog, all you need. Then look at the BIN with their hex tool with graphic on the right (simple bar chart) - don't bother with the 2D and 3D graphs. This will make finding the maps easy (correct no. rows v columns), certainly the start and stop, you
then need to work out what they are for. I prefer not to work in 2D or 3D graph for this stage as raw numbers is actually easier - well my pref. You should be able to find the rpm break-point table
with WinOLS as well, the formula is a disassembly job. But should be able to put in a rough guess, knowing the engine operating range. What processor is the Sirius based? I use an emulator as well, just depends what hardware you have.
It's likely the other maps are trim maps, if you can rom emulate than burn chips, you can quickly find out by setting them to zero and run. Ah check sum fun ;-)

Looking at the above, yes ignition, and think it's 9 columns by 13 rows, so your fuel map will almost certainly be the same.

Not sure what you mean by getting the map into the table? Have you setup the fields in the XDF items properties?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MFaulks

Looking at the above, yes ignition, and think it's 9 columns by 13 rows, so your fuel map will almost certainly be the same.

Not sure what you mean by getting the map into the table? Have you setup the fields in the XDF items properties?

---

it's 9x20 I think, the 20 being RPM, at a guess 400rpm steps.
There is a map of the same size that I think is fuel, I'd have thought it would be 16bit though, but this one is 8 bit. I've also found a large 16 bit map, but not sure what it is.

The Sirius ECU uses a siemens (infineon) C167-SR processor. It's also MAP driven.

I've just started playing with winols, I've had a play before, and just confused myself, I'm going to try a bit harder now. Just need to work out how to create the maps.

interesting, winols won't open the modified ecu files, but tunerpro will. I think I know what to do to make it work, but it'll probably stuff the checksum. In the meantime I can look at the standard file OK, so that'll do.

C167-SR.. ooo nice processor, can't believe I'm saying that as an adult... 10 bit ADC.. kinda points to 20 points nicely doesn't it?

Not surprised the fuel and ignition map is 8bit, faster single cycle execution as probably a 2 byte instruction; not that speed would really be an issue with this hammer, but more likely 16bit resolution is just over-kill. How big is the 16 bit table?

By way how did you measure your spring rates, what kit did you use?

Happy hunting ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MFaulks

C167-SR.. ooo nice processor, can't believe I'm saying that as an adult... 10 bit ADC.. kinda points to 20 points nicely doesn't it?

Not surprised the fuel and ignition map is 8bit, faster single cycle execution as probably a 2 byte instruction; not that speed would really be an issue with this hammer, but more likely 16bit resolution is just over-kill. How big is the 16 bit table?

By way how did you measure your spring rates, what kit did you use?

Happy hunting ;)

---

I think the 20 points are on the rpm axis, so the ADC won't come into it.

The 16bit table looks to be 17x13, no idea what it is. Would there be something like a lookup table for temperature correction? It just seems out of all proportion to everything else. Once I've got a bit further I'll send what I have over.

For the spring tester we have an ancient bit of kit lurking in the corner of R+D, you can do all sorts of fancy step measurements, but for dunces like me you can manually drive the platform up and down and read off mm and N (or whatever units you fancy). I took it all the way to coilbound as that's what was happening on the road

Nice bit of kit to have available :)

Yes in your above the 20 point is rpm, but surprising they wouldn't use all the available accuracy on the ADC for MAP resolution, pass...

What sensor inputs do you have, and is it open loop or closed loop control? What else does the ecu control outside of the engine, if indeed it does?

I think in something like this you would have a table of temp correction (trims), but in many cases a simple 2D single row, just depends.

Knock sensitivity table?

inputs
TDC
MAP
TPS
AIT
knock
O2
vehicle speed
coolant temp
PAS switch

outputs
injectors
coils
ISCV
VVC solenoid
injector relay
fuel pump relay
slow fan relay
fast fan relay
carbon canister

plus some AC stuff

It certainly runs closed loop some of the time (idle, part throttle), I'm not sure how the corrections change the rest of the map, if at all.

btw, I've managed to get WinOLS to read the modified map you gotta love those FFs...

Do you think I could hide a set of throttle bodies inside a rally light pod?
http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagam...0/RS200-04.jpg

You could hide a small Bungalow in that!! :laugh:

Yeah that's a smart way of doing it! :niceone:

your cars still locked away in the garage??:scared:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn_kwI5Dv0s

200,000Kms and still going strong. I must be getting better with the camera cos you can read it this time :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

200,000Kms and still going strong. I must be getting better with the camera cos you can read it this time :D

---

Not going to sell it anytime soon then? :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold aka The Dealer

Not going to sell it anytime soon then? :(

---

everything's for sale, it's just a case of waving sufficient cash in my direction :D

it's still running...

Good to hear from you andrew. Not dead as we all thought!:D

I might just be hacked

I'm at a bit of a crossroads....

I think my clutch has has some kind of catastrophic event, I suspect the fingers or release bearing, but either way it won't disengage. Initially I'd hoped for cable or pedal, but they both seem OK.

so do I

- just sell it as a project and move on with my life (it's just passed it's MOT).

- put it back together with a new clutch and either keep or sell

- put it back together with a gripper diff and keep it

- put it back together with a turbo and keep it

a combination of the above...

if I went turbo I'd still like to keep some reliability so it'd be a low boost high compression job using a remapped PH1 ECU. Maybe I should fit a 197 head, or maybe an complete 225 engine and box (again using the PH1 ECU).

I'm open to offers, suggestions and recommendations, but I don't want a massive project or bill. I'll give it a budget of £1500. I have the gripper but it will want rebuilding and fitting.

Andy

Did take a look at that 197 head conversion which somebody done on another forum, looked like it was a good conversion to then put a low boost turbo conversion on it, though I seem to remember they did put a tiny turbo on there and still seemed to make good amount of power for what psi they were running.

As for doing that kind of conversion without know how the car drives / handles it could be that it will be too much power for such a little car and take out more enjoyment out of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigfoot

Did take a look at that 197 head conversion which somebody done on another forum, looked like it was a good conversion to then put a low boost turbo conversion on it, though I seem to remember they did put a tiny turbo on there and still seemed to make good amount of power for what psi they were running.

As for doing that kind of conversion without know how the car drives / handles it could be that it will be too much power for such a little car and take out more enjoyment out of it.

---

Think of it as somewhere between a 172 and a 5, it has the width and brakes of a 172 with the weight of a 5, it could use some anti rollbars though, it's impossible to unstick the rear.

Think you should give me a buy it as it is price Andrew ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penfold aka The Dealer

Think you should give me a buy it as it is price Andrew ;)

---

maybe you need to make a buy it as it is offer ;)

by the way, it's separated at birth Twin was on Ebay a couple of weeks back, same colour and trim, and only 2 digits different in the number plate. Same guy must have brought them both in from Spain.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Re...:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Think of it as somewhere between a 172 and a 5, it has the width and brakes of a 172 with the weight of a 5, it could use some anti rollbars though, it's impossible to unstick the rear.

---

Sounds like it will be a great laugh with the gripper in place and a little more power with either the 197 head conversion or the small boost turbo conversion.

Though Chris hasn't got a Renault at the moment :laugh:

I think I speak for all of us here when I say, keep it, fix it, make it quicker and give us pictures along the way. Then move on with your life :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trevhib

I think I speak for all of us here when I say, keep it, fix it, make it quicker and give us pictures along the way. Then move on with your life :D

---

:laugh:....or just sell it to me, im not divorced yet...:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jesus in the seat of a 5

:laugh:....or just sell it to me, im not divorced yet...:laugh:

---

since you're not divorced you could make me an offer that I can't refuse for my 5 bits :laugh:

Is it no longer your daily driver?

Sounds like you've already decided to fit the turbo'd 225 with gripper diff?

Are you selling up with the rainbow warrior also? What do you do with yourself these days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

since you're not divorced you could make me an offer that I can't refuse for my 5 bits :laugh:

---

you know my number andy....:laugh: 07790069063...;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian S

Is it no longer your daily driver?

Sounds like you've already decided to fit the turbo'd 225 with gripper diff?

Are you selling up with the rainbow warrior also? What do you do with yourself these days?

---

yep, it's my daily. I still have the Delica for towing, camping, winter, moving big stuff... I don't do many miles and the Twingo only goes to work so it only did about 3Kmiles last year, and I think that included a trip to France. I also have an Austin 7 that I drive to work on nice days and pub runs.

I really need to reduce the stuff I have, I'm not selling the Delica (it's too useful) and I'm not selling the 7 (well, unless somone offers silly money :) ), so everything else is open to offers.

Anyway, unless I see some hard cash soon I'll pull the engine out of the Twingo, and it'll probably have the gripper fitted. If I can find a manifold and downpipe for the right price and soon it may get a turbo.

I think I can squeeze one of these in.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FMIC-FFRON...item20c4fcffb0

soon find out... (library pictures)

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...wingo/rad4.jpg

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/s...o/finished.jpg