R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**

Ok, so as the old website lost my project thread I thought I'd start it off again as I need a thread to update as things progress!

Luckily I had a thread running on the Cliosport site which I can copy across...

Here goes.

------------------------

My latest project was given to me in the form of a fairly tatty rolling shell... It was fully stripped out no dash seats etc... engine had been removed, and it was in a bit of a mess...

From the word go I knew I wanted to make a track day car, something light but with a pokey reliable engine...

I set about it, cleaning out the inside, fitted bucket seats a roll cage and harnesses. Next came the engine, I decided to go for a 172 engine for reliability and power... so set about sourcing one and dropping it in.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/DSCF2007.JPG

The first engine had a dropped valve so that had to come back out and was replaced with engine nuber 2!! I fabricated the manifold to suit, and ran it on a DTA ECU

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3264

The bonnet needed a bit of a lump in to clear the taller engine

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/Image069.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3268

It hit the road in NA form around the end of 2006 and was fairly nippy, i had it rolling roaded on Motorscopes new rollers at a RTOC day out and it made 173bhp which was nice... However I missed the turbo rush and as with all things it started to feel slow and boring. So next stage turbo... http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley1.gif

So I set about re-building engine number 3

Machined the pistons down to drop the compression -

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/Image004.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3266

Machined the flywheel to take my multiplate clutch -

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/Image015.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3267

Stripped the block & Painted it yellow -

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSCF2486a.JPG
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3269

Blasted and powder coated the inlet manifold and plenum - http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...s/smiley15.gif

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSCF2499a.JPG
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3270

Knocked up a manifold and downpipe to suit a T3

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20turbo/1a.JPG

One of the problems with the NA engine was movement, it rocked about too much on the gtt mounts, so I had to brace it with a bit of a pikey stabiliser bar onto the strut top.... So once the engine was removed for the turbo conversion I decided to weld in a clio top mount...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/DSCF2784.JPG


Welded In

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/DSCF2843.JPG

Primed

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/DSCF2845.JPG

And Painted

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/DSCF2848.JPG

so, new engine needed a better fuel rail and FPR that could cope with a bit of positive pressure, so instead of re-inventing the wheel I stole Scoff's idea of using the volvo T5 fuel rail... with a bit of machining i made a bracket to mount it to the inlet manifold.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSCF2983a.JPG

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/DSCF3174.JPG

Fitted that to my new engine

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSCF2958a.JPG

I also machined a new turbo oil feed banjo as the gtt one I was planning to use wouldn't fit properly...

Heres a vid of when it ran for the first time!!


http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBumHOeqKow

Good job Ash!

How long did all that take you if you don't mind me asking ?

Next Job was to fit a phase 1 172 Dash,

I broke my R5gtt gearbox (it was an unknown in the first place and 2nd gear was never that good) So I decided to go for a 172 box. Only problem was the speedo on the Gtt clocks wouldnt run, so I decided the only way to go was to use the 172 clocks.

Started off

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...urbo/dash1.JPG

Finished Up

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSCF3469a.JPG

Its better now i've got a glove box and 172 steering wheel (cheers Adey). But you get the idea... All the gauges and switches work as they should :)

more pics of that modification in here incase anyone wants to try it.

My multiplate clutch was goosed so it came back out and I went for a 200mm AP paddle (couldn't get a 215mm one in time for RTOC Pod day)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSCF3521a.JPG

Seems to do the job as the R5 172T made 238bhp & 230lb/ft @10psi on the rollers @ Motorscope


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdLvu_LGE9k

This is pretty much how it looks now, although I've changed the FMIC pipe run since to tidy things up a lot!

i like that new dash actually, makes the car look a little bit more modern.

lol @ your cat hiding behind the dash in one of them photos, they always seem to get in the way when i try and do work to the car :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spooky

Good job Ash!

How long did all that take you if you don't mind me asking ?

---

Erm, I think I started it around May 2006 and had the NA engine up and running towards the end of 2006. I started to build the F4R Turbo up early 2007 and swapped them over after my wedding at the end of 2007. The turbo versions been running about a year now I would say... So took about 6 months to get the NA version up and running from scratch and then a year later I swapped it for the turbo version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodell

lol @ your cat hiding behind the dash in one of them photos, they always seem to get in the way when i try and do work to the car :laugh:

---

Shes a nightmare mate, always want to be involved with everything i'm doing!!

Great car Ashy :agree: i like the dash too, looks well.. Out of interest does anyone know what sort of tapper the 172 pistons have? :confused:

Niall I am so loving this, top job matey.
:)
Ps - many thanks for all the advice and parts

looking good man, nice to see , will have to get a blast in her someday ;)

Ashey that is blood good work mate, keep it up

...so I just machined a new... :gagged:

...then I fabricated a manifold... :scared:


:worship:

Looks great Ashy. :agree:

just read the whole thing there
looks bloody amazing
well done
a lot of time and efoort and money i bet

beautiful end pic you have aswell
:)

do u fancy doing the same to mine m8 ? lol

Love that Clio dash, wish someone would post up a how to do on this would really love to do this to mine, really updates it.

Quick update, the 5 hasn't moved since it the last rolling road day in November...

In that time I've decided to do a few upgrades in the form of a new ECU, bigger injectors and a bigger blower!!

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...ictureid=10212

Looking forward to an interesting 2010 :)

Cool is that a GT30?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logg

Cool is that a GT30?

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I'm, gonna make a guess that since there isn't a shaft or nut shown it's an upgrade for the existing T3, so, complete guess, 50trim T4?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'm, gonna make a guess that since there isn't a shaft or nut shown it's an upgrade for the existing T3, so, complete guess, 50trim T4?

---

Yeah its a T04B that i relieved Mr Scoff of!! the unit I'm using is a 2WD cossie unit with the T04B bolted onto the front... Happy days.

Hmm wonder whos gonna be buying lunch this year then? unless Matts got something up his sleeve

Latest pics bud?

T04B "v" trim from memory, but you'd have to measure it up again to be sure. I recall the map suggesting it would be pretty handy at 300hp.

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Class project mate! I said to a mate a 172 dash would look fresh in a 5 and it does! Is this on the road mate? Are you ashy who knows nikki? Keep up the good work :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benj88

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Class project mate! I said to a mate a 172 dash would look fresh in a 5 and it does! Is this on the road mate? Are you ashy who knows nikki? Keep up the good work :)

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Hi m8, yeah been on the road a few years now... Although its currently in bits!

Aye I know Nikki from Sunderland? Used to go out with a good mate of mine Chris Scott. Has she still got the Raider?

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Yeh I remember him he does cage fighting n that doesn't he? Were bouts at Durham you from? My girlfriend lives in Belmont.

I spoke to her a few month ago she stil has the raider it's in a unit or garage, she bought loads of stuf but never got round to fixing it after she bumpd it. Did you use to have a raider? A gud few year ago I went to york with my mate, chris was there with his red gti lump rallie and followd nikki and someone else I'm*sure there was someone calld ashy 'the doctor' was there ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benj88

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Yeh I remember him he does cage fighting n that doesn't he? Were bouts at Durham you from? My girlfriend lives in Belmont.

I spoke to her a few month ago she stil has the raider it's in a unit or garage, she bought loads of stuf but never got round to fixing it after she bumpd it. Did you use to have a raider? A gud few year ago I went to york with my mate, chris was there with his red gti lump rallie and followd nikki and someone else I'm*sure there was someone calld ashy 'the doctor' was there ?

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Im in Chester-le-street mate, aye that would of been me mate. That was my old 5, it was the ex DD Autosports car and Glen T was known as the Doctor... Think it had some stickers on promoting the business and Glen the Doctor... That was a long time ago, that car went up in flames at the side of the motorway in 2005!

Have you got a 5 now then?

what rpm does it go to ??? 7000-8000 , when does turbo boost up? im thinking hard at 4000

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fcdgary

what rpm does it go to ??? 7000-8000 , when does turbo boost up? im thinking hard at 4000

---

I haven't run it yet with the new turbo, but Mr Scoff compared it to a T28 on a 5. The old smaller T3 wasn't laggy at all on full boost by 3300rpm.

Had the dash flocked...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...o/SAM_8593.JPG

standard 172 is bout 7200 limit am i right? so if you cuming on boost at 3.5k say and it holds thats gona be bloody quick, my old five had a top t2 hybrid cum in at 2.5k but no stem after 5k realy , 172 def got that top end power shuld be fast as f??k what u plan using it for?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Im in Chester-le-street mate, aye that would of been me mate. That was my old 5, it was the ex DD Autosports car and Glen T was known as the Doctor... Think it had some stickers on promoting the business and Glen the Doctor... That was a long time ago, that car went up in flames at the side of the motorway in 2005!

Have you got a 5 now then?

---

Never! Nightmare mate! Was a smart raider like, had a nice cage in. Yeh iv got a tungy iv started a thread for it check it out! Lol.

news of this superb project of GT RS ???

would you have a video of your GT ? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xenon

news of this superb project of GT RS ???

would you have a video of your GT ? ;)

---

I broke it at Santa POD in May, so its been off the road since then...

Did the crank, looks like she spun a shell...

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...ictureid=12909

I'm currently stipping he down as she needs some welding and a re-spray. Engines also in bits, I've got steel rods and forged pistons going in plus a clutch upgrade.

Hope to be back on the road spring next year.

only vids I have are on you tube, search for Ashy_gtt

:)

And so it begins.....

After the engine letting go at pod I decided it was time to take her off the road. I moved house in June so the cars really not been touched until a few weeks ago... The plan was to strip and re-build the engine, steel rods, low comp pistons etc etc and sort the body work at the same time.

So here we are, been on the go for a few weeks now but I dont get as much time in the garage as I'd like so progress is slow... But here we go...

Windscreen Surround was totaly shot

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0724a.jpg


The drivers side was just nasty....

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0727a.jpg

So out it came....

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0779a.jpg

Cleaned and painted ready for the new surround

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0782a.jpg


New surround tacked in place

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0792a.jpg

Next bit was the sills and rear bumper brackets...

Once I'd removed the outer sills it was clear the inners needed a once over... the more I probed the worse it was... So I cut all the rot out leaving this...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0768a.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0769a.jpg

I made a template and drew it up in CAD, then got some inner sill repair patches laser cut at work to save time cutting and welding...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0771a.jpg

I painted the sills and the rear of the repair strip to stop it rusting once welded....

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0784a.jpg


Then Spotted it into position...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0788a.jpg

Next was onto the bumper brackets... Again they were pretty rusty so I decided just to start from scratch...

I made a paper template, drew it up in CAD and had some laser cut...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0775a.jpg

And welded into position

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0785a.jpg


And thats where I'm up to... Just thought I'd sahre that with ya'll :)

:)Brings back memories, nice work mate:agree:

Been there, done that - didn't have cad and laser stuff, so not as clinical as that, fappin' good stuff.

Great work as ever :)

Proper job mate :agree:

well done ashy, nice to see you doin a bit on her despite being a dad...:), good work mate, coming along nicely...despite the orange peel effect on the paint...;){in house banter}...:laugh:..:wasntme:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jesus in the seat of a 5

coming along nicely...despite the orange peel effect on the paint...;){in house banter}...:laugh:..:wasntme:

---

:laugh::laugh:

:cooter:

Good work ashy, you are a right good handy man :cool:


Is dave giving it a paint, If so what colour?

phil

Very nice body repairs, good work

maybe you could knock some more cad stuff up and sell em on the site?
rear bumper mountings always go?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparkie

maybe you could knock some more cad stuff up and sell em on the site?
rear bumper mountings always go?

---

:agree: Yes please,
Also the inner sill plate would be good :)

I've started a THREAD in group buys if any one wants any repair panels.

Cheers Ashy.

let me know when that engines in bit ;):agree:

the extra bits of pipe you needed for you turbo mani, what size did you use?

what was the clio dash like to fit? my bro has the old 16v style dash in his but steering wheel sits really low as had to have the colum rewelded to fit the dash

Been busy over the last few weeks... Don't get as much time as I used to in the garage but the shells nearly ready for Dave SBS to work his magic....

Just got a few small bits to do and its booked in for Feb :cool:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20%281%29a.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0188a.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0189a.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20%287%29a.jpg

Niall, looking good matey:agree: bonnet looks familiar :laugh:

panel gaps look suspect!:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James5

Niall, looking good matey:agree: bonnet looks familiar :laugh:

---

Ha yeah, bit of a sl@g that bonnet!!

Mat - F.R.O. :cooter: Gaps are spot on... Grinder sorted that. :smokin:

This is going to be nice, one of the north easts best modified r5s, i say one of the best ;)

looking good bud, make sure dave doesnt give you any orange peel effect...;), hmm , nice garage too , ya lucky bugger...:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by philg

This is going to be nice, one of the north easts best modified r5s, i say one of the best ;)

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Was going to say mate, it wouldn't even make the top 10 at the local scrapyard ! :cry:

:laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Was going to say mate, it wouldn't even make the top 10 at the local scrapyard ! :cry:

---

:laugh::laugh::laugh: its like a rats nest inside there

well she's away to the paint shop...

Should have her back in 3 weeks... Can't wait to get stuck into the re-build :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20Work/car.jpg


https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...0Work/car1.jpg

Looks good mate ;)

thats the best it's ever looked!:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

thats the best it's ever looked!:D

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HAHA You wish yours was in as good condition mate.... You caught all your tin worms yet? :cooter:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

thats the best it's ever looked!:D

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

HAHA You wish yours was in as good condition mate.... You caught all your tin worms yet? :cooter:

---

now thats enough you two. you both know your 5s are scrappers compared to mine

:rolleyes:

Now then, got a call today to say the shells in primer, could I pop dwn to make sure I was happy wih it.... Heres a few pics.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0019.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0021.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0022.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0024.jpg

Looks really good, they've done a cracking job so far tidying up all my dodgy filling!

Had to ask them to remove the door striker pins and VIN plate to paint underneath but appart from that its coming along really nicely... should have the top coat done this week then they'll send it back whilst they paint the cage, wheels and body kit :)

Double Post.....

:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:
:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:
:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:

Just had the paint shop on, the shell (less doors) and wheels are painted and will be dropped back off on Sat morning........ Can't wait....

Apparently it looks absolutely mint, and its a gorgeous colour.... Can't wait to see it!!

:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:
:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:
:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:

Nice to see its a full inside out job, look forward to them pics!

Well got the shell, wheels and rear cage back at the weekend... heres a couple of pics...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0038.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0039.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...k/DSC_0040.jpg

Can't wait to get stuck into the re-build now :wasntme:

Nice choice of colour there mate ;)

It looking good.

Looks reem mate, how much did the paintjob set you back??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brigsy

Looks reem mate, how much did the paintjob set you back??

---

Duno yet, haven't had the bill :scared:

I was quoted between £800 - £1000 but that was before I asked them to paint the wheels....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Duno yet, haven't had the bill :scared:

I was quoted between £800 - £1000 but that was before I asked them to paint the wheels....

---

looks good value :D:D:D

Looks mint, such a deep red :agree:

What wheels have you had painted white ?

very cheap that is for a full paint job matey, and the finish looks nice :)

You went for red in the end then, looks great mate, i will have to have a pop down :)

Any time Phill... Well long as I'm in :smokin:

This is fantastic can't wait to see it finished :)

looks amazing m8 must be well chuffed! good stuff

Looks so nice and fresh :D keep up the work :D

New windscreen fitted today... Looks lovely :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0138a.jpg


https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0140a.jpg

Looks awesome. Will be such a good car when done. :agree:

any updates ashy :D

Aye but I havent taken any decent pics mate...

All the interior is back in now, seats, cage & dash.... Just got belts to fit then its onto the engine re-build.

Was just in the garage so took a pic...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...rior/paint.jpg

looks good ash, is there a bit of orange peel to it though.....:laugh::wasntme:;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jesus in the seat of a 5

looks good ash, is there a bit of orange peel to it though.....:laugh::wasntme:;)

---

Joking asside there is mate, needs a bit more flatting and polishing before the cash changes hands ;)

that colour is going to look **** hot in the sun :D

nice work m8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

well she's away to the paint shop...

Should have her back in 3 weeks... Can't wait to get stuck into the re-build :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20Work/car.jpg


https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...0Work/car1.jpg

---

Thats the ginger feker responsible........................get him!:D

Been making a bit of progress this week, failry slowly but I've been collecting all the bits required to build my new engine.

I havent looked at the bank balance this week but its taken a hammering, heres some of the bits I've been buying...

Steel Rods - ARP Bolts, Mains, Head stud kit and big rod bolts.

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2879


Wossner Pistons

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2872

Tial Wastegate

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2877

Loads of new bits from Reno:

Head gasket kit..

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2874

Timing Belt

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2881

Bearing Set

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2882

And a few bits I've made:

Flywheel Spacer

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2876

VW Gearbox Adaptor Plate.

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2880

Engine and box mated together.

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2878

Engine and box mounted to subframe

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=2875

So over the next few days it should all be put together and dropped in.

Awesome marrow. Hope it all goes together well!:agree:

Ashy Looking good, very impressive:agree:

Have you mated the renault and VW driveshafts or had custom shafts made?

Engine and box in position to measure up for the engine mounts...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Engine_Bay.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Engine and box in position to measure up for the engine mounts...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Engine_Bay.jpg

---

I must be lost, are you not just refiiting the old engine and box back in the car Ashy?

Its all coming together nice mind :)

No mate, decided to fit a stronger box (VAG 02J from a Cupra 1.8T) whilst I was on. Hence the need to make up mounts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

No mate, decided to fit a stronger box (VAG 02J from a Cupra 1.8T) whilst I was on. Hence the need to make up mounts.

---

Got ya ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lewis

Have you mated the renault and VW driveshafts or had custom shafts made?

---

Sorry missed your post, I'm using Scoff's old set.

So, thought I'd update the thread with a few pics...

This weekend I wanted to get the engine mounts sorted, so i took a quick visit to the scrapyard firstly for ideas on how other cars do it and secondly to leave with a few new mounts to play with.

Had a good rake around and came away with a couple of different mounts that I thought I could modify to fit.

Heres some pics.

Bracket to mount the side gearbox mount onto the chassis leg.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...racket%202.jpg

Side mount in place and front gearbox mount tacked up.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d%20Up%202.jpg

All welded up and you can see the rear gearbox mount in this shot also.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../Finished2.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/Finished.jpg

Now they just need tidying up and powder coating and we are done. Just the engine to build then! :scared:

that is fantastic and makes me very jealous! keep it up and all the luck in the world for the engine!

spot on :smokin:
will be going down this route myself next year,02j/m= bigger clutch /flywheel and stronger box is a win win situation :agree:

just the cable shift system that concerns me (engine in the back)

are you using the audi gear stick /selector or something out of the newer renaults:)

Nicely done mate:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HAndy

spot on :smokin:
will be going down this route myself next year,02j/m= bigger clutch /flywheel and stronger box is a win win situation :agree:

just the cable shift system that concerns me (engine in the back)

are you using the audi gear stick /selector or something out of the newer renaults:)

---

Its an old Golf one I believe but the previous owner modified it to it inside a corrardo's tunnel (made it narrower) so it fitted perfectly in the 5!

Couple of update pics...

Cleaned the block and started the re-build.

Main bearings in position:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0301.jpg

Lubed up ready for the crank...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0302.jpg


Threads chased to remove any cr@p.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0303.jpg

Crank in and ARP bolts fitted.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0308.jpg

Pistons & Rods built up

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0312.jpg

Pistons in block

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0315.jpg

Just letting my sunday dinner settle then the heads going on.

:)

Looks good, I think I may end up going down the VW/Audi box route if mine blows boxes, prob cheaper in the long run... You able to make up adapter plates at all ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

Looks good, I think I may end up going down the VW/Audi box route if mine blows boxes, prob cheaper in the long run... You able to make up adapter plates at all ?

---

and the fly wheel spacer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

Looks good, I think I may end up going down the VW/Audi box route if mine blows boxes, prob cheaper in the long run... You able to make up adapter plates at all ?

---

Yeah sure... No probs...

Flywheel spacer is a bit harder, I just don't have time to mke them... Can give you a drawing though?

Bit of an update.......

I'm now back to square one, after discovering that the pistons were actually oversize 92.93mm versions I took some advice and decided it would be worth taking the head back off and gapping the rings (something I've never bothered to do in the past) and luckily I did becasue it turns out the instructions from Wossner were incorrect. The instructions said to bore the block to the size on the box which was 82.93mm + 0.01mm. However this size is actually the piston size... So bottom line is the engine has had to come back appart and needs re-honing out.

So I've found a machine shop to do it for me and its all getting dropped off there tomorrow...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Square_one.jpg

Big thanks to Scoff for all the help so far, I bet he'll be as glad as me when its built and I stop pestering him :laugh:

Quick update, engines back together but I don't want to run VVT on the new engine so I needed a way to modify the standard inlet pulley so It doesn't develop the dreaded rattle.

So I've designed a solid version to replace the std item

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...nlet%20cam.JPG



Then got it made up at work...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0331.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0332.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0330.jpg

Just modified the design slightly with the lightening holes to ensure the solid version was the same weight as the std pulley.

Hopefully over the weekend I should be able to get the engine finished, back together and mated up to the VW box for fitting! :cool:

Cant wait to get it in the bay!

Top work mate, how you gonna compensate for the 16 degrees that the VVT gives though?

I'm not at this stage mate, on my last setup I didn't run the VVT anyway and it was running standard timing. So in this setup it will just run off VVT all the time.

The plan is to make a vernier pulley and once the engines run in and ready for a few tweaks swap them over!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

I'm not at this stage mate, on my last setup I didn't run the VVT anyway and it was running standard timing. So in this setup it will just run off VVT all the time.

The plan is to make a vernier pulley and once the engines run in and ready for a few tweaks swap them over!

---

I actually have a set of catcam vernier pulleys, if you need something to copy :)

I have a basic design mate...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ernier%202.JPG

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ernier%201.JPG

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ernier%203.JPG

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ernier%204.JPG

But if you've got a set to copy and they are just gathering dust then I wouldn't say no :)

Are both pulleys adjustable?

The only problem is there for non VVT cams so if you could use your current design with the added benefit of adjustability it would do away with the need to upgrade to VVT delete cams.

Obviously when using the OE timing tools it will time the cams 16 degrees advanced, so to get it back to a VVT enabled situation your gonna need a minimum of 16 degrees of adjustment.

Heres the ones i have

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_prod...d=2374&appid=2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SP33DY

The only problem is there for non VVT cams so if you could use your current design with the added benefit of adjustability it would do away with the need to upgrade to VVT delete cams.

Heres the ones i have

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_prod...d=2374&appid=2

---

My Inlet cam has been VVT deleted mate so wouldn't be a problem. I would just need to change the camshaft oil seal for an Exhaust type.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SP33DY

Obviously when using the OE timing tools it will time the cams 16 degrees advanced, so to get it back to a VVT enabled situation your gonna need a minimum of 16 degrees of adjustment.

---

Eh, I hought setting the timing with the std tools would set the timing at 0 deg. My understanding was that once the VVT was activated it gave you 16 degrees advance.

Nope mate, the inlet cam with the VVT deactivated is 16 degrees advanced, only with enough oil pressure and >1700rpm does the dephaser solenoid activate retarding the inlet cam by 16 degrees.

Heres a link to catcams profiles look at the info bit

http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english

You learn something new every day!

Why do people use yellow text on white background?!?

You can't fcuking read it!!!

Just clicked that link and its a dudd, heres the info cut and paste

information & important remarks:

#The VVT system on the intake camshaft changes the cam timing (and so the lift at TDC):
- 1st intake valve: 124° (disengaged) // 108° (engaged)
- 2nd intake valve: 128° (disengaged) // 112° (engaged)
- 1st exhaust valve: 108° (no VVT)
- 2nd exhaust valve: 104° (no VVT)

Please make sure there is enough distance between valve and piston when the VVT system is engaged.

Yes, the timing is a bit odd in the VVT off position but actually it can work quite well with the turbo and higher boost. Advancing the inlet back toward the VVT "on" position brings mid range up a lot but you end up with a slight lope at idle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SP33DY

The only problem is there for non VVT cams so if you could use your current design with the added benefit of adjustability it would do away with the need to upgrade to VVT delete cams.

Obviously when using the OE timing tools it will time the cams 16 degrees advanced, so to get it back to a VVT enabled situation your gonna need a minimum of 16 degrees of adjustment.

Heres the ones i have

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_prod...d=2374&appid=2

---

You wont be selling them to me now i guess!:crap::coffee:


:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SP33DY

Nope mate, the inlet cam with the VVT deactivated is 16 degrees advanced, only with enough oil pressure and >1700rpm does the dephaser solenoid activate retarding the inlet cam by 16 degrees.

Heres a link to catcams profiles look at the info bit

http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english

---

the number 5 is a majic number!:D

the standard timing position is 16 deg retarded and the VVT advances the cam 16 deg. When I measure the cams it's relative to the straight across installed position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

the standard timing position is 16 deg retarded and the VVT advances the cam 16 deg. When I measure the cams it's relative to the straight across installed position.

---

So was I right?! :scratch:

Heres a few pics of my VVT delete setup.

The oil ways in the end of the cam that feed the pulley measure 3.8mm dia. So I god some stainless pins ground to 3.83mm dia with a slight lead in. They were a nice tight fit and pressed nicely into position.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0333.jpg

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0338.jpg

Then the pulley bolt needed to be plugged. The bore was 5mm dia, perfect for tapping M6. So once it was tapped a stainless steel grub screw was lock-tighted in place.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0339.jpg

Bolted up, just need to fit shorter M6 bolts.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0345.jpg

So now its time to get stuck into it in the garage. See how far we get today :)

Nope mate it's how I explained I just got my advances and retards round the wrong way round :confused:

I was just about to say that I thought Steve was getting his advance/retard mixed - easily done...

basically, if you want it in the low overlap position time the cams straight across as per the manual.

Got quite a bit done today...

Front Subframe, powder coated and polybushed.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0350.jpg

Engine built up and VW box adaptor plate fitted.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0352.jpg

Flywheel bolted.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0357.jpg

This is how she stands now, ready for the box to be fitted tomorrow.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0358.jpg

Good days graft today, engines now in.

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0367.jpg

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0369.jpg

Trouble is the old exhaust manifold now fouls the gear selector. Looks like I'm gona need to build a new exhaust manifold and downpipe... The question is do I update the turbo whilst I'm on?!?

What a great project this is. :agree:

Looks Fabulous Ashy! :niceone:

The colour looks bright orange in these latest pictures? Is it the picture or is the car orange?

Just looking at your Brake Servo, it doesn't look like a 5 unit? Is it a larger one off something else?

that orange paint looks great

Haha, orange paint!! Nah its just the pictures, it does look red in the flesh!

The brake servo is from a 172 / 182 it fits perfectly and its much bigger than the Gtt one :)

Nice work mate :agree:

Small update this week...

New brakes turned up :cool: Was supprised how big the calipers were... Just need to get the front end built up then I can try them on :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0427.jpg

Also new turbo arrived... So I can start building my manifold, here it is in the bay on my fixture so I can get the position right then transfer it onto a spare head to build it up...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0435.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0436.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0437.jpg

Got a weeks holiday coming up so hopefully Ill break the back of it then :)

nice looking turbo:)

when you're bored of it throw it my way :cool:

immense work! nice tubby is it a gt35?

New GAZ Coilovers fitted and Hi-Spec Brakes :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...s/DSC_0438.jpg

I was worried that the drive shafts would need to be modified as my gearbox sits differently to Scoff's old one... But they fit like a glove! Mint.

My steering rack is away being re-conditioned, due back Wed / Thurs so then I should be able to drop it down and roll it around! :cool:

Getting there mate, I might have pop down next weekend and have a gander.

Cool mate, feel free :)

Few nice bits of engineering there Ashy, good man :agree: :)

Next up, Steering Rack...

Thanks to Phil G for putting me in touch with Quick Start who carried out the reconditioning of my rack... Dropped it of last sat and got the call to say it was ready today!

Looks spot on, just goto get round to fitting it now :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ing%20rack.jpg

Took my last few lieu days this week to get some garage time in and try to get this project moving. The biggest task is to build a new exhaust manifold and downpipe, so with 2x172 manifolds cut into bits a chop saw, grinder and welder at the ready I was all set.

Old engine setup as fixture.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ne/fixture.jpg

First Attempt - but the second runner wasn't right, I wanted to make the runners equal lengths (within reason). The other 3 measured 500 - 550mm each and this one was just 350mm so decided to re-hash it.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/IMAG0281.jpg

Didn't get many pics of the other stages - heres the runners all welded up.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...gine/tubes.jpg

All tacked up in position.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...acked%20up.jpg

Rear View

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...cked%20up1.jpg

Manifold complete

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20manifold.jpg

Manifold in position -

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ani%20rear.jpg

The reason for putting the turbo on an angle is to give as much room as possible at the back for the down pipe... Thats the plan anyway?!

:eek: Noodle Doodle!!

Nice job Ashy :niceone:

Nice one marrow. Looks very good. How come you divided the runners? you fancying twin scroll soon!:D

love the mainfold, great work, no probs on the rack, happy to help :)

If weather is good sunday i might have a run down, im going to bend your ear to make me a manifold to lol :D

really great build,should be awsome power output to:cool:

Great build ... well in matey :)

There is some serious mechanical talent in this place.

You all a bunch of ugly funts - but gifted with a spanner.

Great work :agree:

Quick question, why does the engine look to be slightly angled down (cam belt end)? Or is it just the pics..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Great work :agree:

Quick question, why does the engine look to be slightly angled down (cam belt end)? Or is it just the pics..

---

Yeah it is, its just the way it worked out with the new mounts on the gearbox end.. I built it slightly high expecting the mounts to give a bit more than they did... I'm not too bothered at this stage but may pack up the top mount to level it out if needed.

Quick update, managed to get a few hours in the garage over Christmas and got quite a bit done. THe plan was to build a 3" downpipe, side exit and fit my external wastegate!

So here goes...

Starting on the downpipe elbow.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0486.JPG

Finished Downpipe

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0487.JPG

Another Angle

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0488.JPG

Downpipe fitted.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0491.JPG

External Wastegate fitted

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0554.JPG

Another Angle

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0550.JPG

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0557.JPG

Just need to shot blast the inside of the manifold to clean any loose debris out and I can then heat wrap and fit them. :)

Looks Ace G.
Downpipe looks the schnizzle.
You finished all the welding now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by V Man

Looks Ace G.
Downpipe looks the schnizzle.
You finished all the welding now?

---

Yo G, aye nearly, just got a hanger to weld on and I'm pretty much done... The beasts been faultless as usual :)

Down pipe looks first class, but i can not believe all the **** bits of exhaust and screwdrivers lying around in a freshly painted car you butcher :laugh::cooter:

Just had another look at your work bench to, god i wont sleep tonight mate, i was going to pop down sometime and have a looksy, i will have have a good tidy up for ya when im down :D

Dont be so soft ya big fairy! Feel free to pop over and tidy my garage though if it'll make you feel better ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Dont be so soft ya big fairy! Feel free to pop over and tidy my garage though if it'll make you feel better ;)

---

:laugh: I will definitely get through early next year mate, just wont take mine out in the rain :ashamed: hopefully brigsy will get out the gym long enough to get some good n/e meets sorted.

Cans of Carling's under the car to omg, you should see my garage, everything in its place lol

Car is looking sweet to, but you need to rip of pascal and get some black Porsche rims :smokin:

Lovin' your work Ashy. Top job on the Ex Manifold and Turbo Downpipe. These VW Gearbox swaps are catching on....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by philg

hopefully brigsy will get out the gym long enough to get some good n/e meets sorted.

---

:laugh::laugh:

http://www.palyne.com/talk/Smileys/p...ghtlifting.gif

The exhaust looks about the same as mine ashy. Is the silencer from MIJ ? I use one of those, 18" long I think. 3" straight through, 5" OD. It's a bit louder than I wanted in road-going mode but it sounds quite nice :)

Cracking engineering during the project mate :agree:

sat and read this thread just there ...top marks!

Makes me wish i knew how to weld! :smokin: will be watching this thread in the future :smokin::smokin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

The exhaust looks about the same as mine ashy. Is the silencer from MIJ ? I use one of those, 18" long I think. 3" straight through, 5" OD. It's a bit louder than I wanted in road-going mode but it sounds quite nice :)

---

mmmm interesting, yes its am MIJ one mate, but i only went for the 12" long version :eek:

I did wonder how loud it would be.... maybe I'll have to fit another!!

ashy looking the dogs marrow, so when you doing mine?:D

[quote=Ashy;30331]One of the problems with the NA engine was movement, it rocked about too much on the gtt mounts, so I had to brace it with a bit of a pikey stabiliser bar onto the strut top.... So once the engine was removed for the turbo conversion I decided to weld in a clio top mount...


You probably allready kno but the clio sport top mounts are pretty prone for splitting and clunking maybe look at the 225 mount if thats possible?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony Walker

One of the problems with the NA engine was movement, it rocked about too much on the gtt mounts, so I had to brace it with a bit of a pikey stabiliser bar onto the strut top.... So once the engine was removed for the turbo conversion I decided to weld in a clio top mount...


You probably allready kno but the clio sport top mounts are pretty prone for splitting and clunking maybe look at the 225 mount if thats possible?

---

I don't think its going to move much at all with the engine mounts! I've got plenty of clio top mounts lying around so won't be a problem if I kill a few :)

lol :)

Not really getting much done at the moment with the early arrival of our new baby...

However i've designed a new inlet manifold which I'm in the progress of making!

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/manifold.JPG

Leading the way marrow, 'Yorkgeordie puudding Tuning' :D

Well, not done much recently but today I decided to pull the 5 outa the garage (as it hasn't been out in a few months) and give it a wash...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0725a.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0727a.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../DSC_0729a.jpg

These aren't the wheels I was planning on using but they actually realy suit the car, maybe Reno got it right with the Trophy?

I'm really happy with how she's coming along... Just wish I could jump in and go for a spin :(

Damn she's lookin fine fella, nice work

Looking very nice ashy :agree:

Wheels lock spot on marrow!:agree:

Making good progress on the inlet manifold(s) heres a few pics of the current status... Just goto make a fixture to hold it all in the right place whilst its welded, then I should be good to go!

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0756.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0759.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0763.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0781.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0783.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0784.jpg

Lovely bit of work.
Just a quickie, is there any benefit from firing the injectors into the roof of the port? As in, having the injectors on the underside of the inlet runners? (I'm always unsure of the fastest flow to carry the fuel), or is it better to have them fire fuel into the port as standard for best atomisation on the back of the valves....:crap:

I feel like i've seen a manifold like that before somewhere :)

Nice work :) I tacked mine together with the mig. Aluminium wire and argon, then ground them back so as not to make it hard to tig over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I feel like i've seen a manifold like that before somewhere :)

Nice work :) I tacked mine together with the mig. Aluminium wire and argon, then ground them back so as not to make it hard to tig over.

---

You know me mate, don't like to re-invent the wheel ;)

I've tried ali welding with my mig before and it just made a right mess of it... Might see if I can borrow a portable TIG set from work...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

You know me mate, don't like to re-invent the wheel ;)

I've tried ali welding with my mig before and it just made a right mess of it... Might see if I can borrow a portable TIG set from work...

---

It'll do it mate, you want clean metal, a load of current and a load of wire speed ! It's not usually pretty but that's what flap wheels are for ;)

Making progress, first one is tacked up for a trial fit...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0779.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0780.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0788.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0787.jpg

Starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel now! :cool:

Looking good :)

:agree:

looks great, i wish i could do more stuff like this, can not wait to see it :)

Proper job :agree:

Ashy, just had a look through all this and looks superb, from the engine to the dash, looks brilliant! where the shiny callipers a simple fit? I'm sure compared to everything else it was but had to ask, also in your dash pics for some reason there appears to be loads of pics of my 5 when it was in the bodyshop last year! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brizza

Ashy, just had a look through all this and looks superb, from the engine to the dash, looks brilliant! where the shiny callipers a simple fit? I'm sure compared to everything else it was but had to ask, also in your dash pics for some reason there appears to be loads of pics of my 5 when it was in the bodyshop last year! ;)

---

The calipers just bolt on mate, simple as that!

I don't know why the pictures get jumbled up, I think it was when the website moved servers? Theres loads like that!

Glad you like it, just be nice to get it finished!

little update....

Modified my radiator to move the outlet so it doesnt interfere with the turbo oil return...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Engine/rad.jpg

and FPR arrived in the post! Big thanks to SteveT2!!

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Engine/reg.jpg

First two manifolds now welded... Gona be a busy weekend :)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0816.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0814.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0821.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_0823.jpg

Looks spot on Ashy :agree::)

Ashy looking good:agree: why 2 manifolds?

are you selling the spare manifold?

Duno yet mate, I've actually made 3 of them...

Ones for me and ones for Matt C, the flange is designed to fit either a 172 / 182 / 225 cylinder head. The third one is a spare for me (as I'm building another engine) but I may sell it if I decide not to use it....

Also I have the designs available so could make anoter batch if there was enough interest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Duno yet mate, I've actually made 3 of them...

Ones for me and ones for Matt C, the flange is designed to fit either a 172 / 182 / 225 cylinder head. The third one is a spare for me (as I'm building another engine) but I may sell it if I decide not to use it....

Also I have the designs available so could make anoter batch if there was enough interest.

---

Dibs on that spare engine :D

Quick update, got a week off work so started tinkering today, hopefully get somewhere near finished this week...

Heres a few pics

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_1067.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_1074.jpg

Looks fantastic mate, :devil: credit to the club :agree:

Looks awesome mate, hope you get close to finishing this week :goodJob::goodJob::goodJob:

Looking very very good Ashy :agree:

stunning....... brilliant craftmanship on show here :smokin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tubbyG

stunning....... brilliant craftmanship on show here :smokin:

---

Ditto :agree:

Thanks guys, small update from today's tinkering.

I needed to re-think the crank sensore pickup due to the fact that i'm using the VW flywheel. So I had a 36-1 wheel produced at work to blt onto my inlet cam pulley..

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_1076.jpg

Inlet cam pulley before:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_1077.jpg

Inlet cam pulley after:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_1083.jpg

Engine view, plumbed in the intercooler, and some of the water pipes... Just a few small things to do tomorrow then I may get to plug the ECU in and see if things look OK to start her up. :eek:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...d/DSC_1078.jpg

Superb job mate :agree:

:D you have to post a vid of it running:agree:

just noticed your belt, there only meant to run in one direction(apparently) not sure how true that is but ive allways thought the writing on the belt should face you when putting it on. Just something to check maybe?(something i was taught by oldschool lecturers lol)

Interesting, I don't know, I thought modern belts were multi directional, the only time you should fit directionally would be if the belt was marked up with directional arrows or if you were re-using an old belt and you needed to make sure it went back on the same way.

There are no directional arrows on the belt and i've just checked the Clio Manual (just incase) it doesn't mention it!

:eek: :confused: :scratch:

I'll not be able to sleep tonight now :cry:

Sorry, you are right in saying that some belts have directional arrows on them, i just have allways put them with the writing facing me. Its probably fine but thought id mention it before you go ahead and run it.

Lovely work ashy.:smokin:
Ditto tony with the cam belt, also, are you using cam speed for tdc sensor? I'm guessing you have a correction in the inj comp (not teaching you to suck eggs here) as cams turn half the speed of the crank, so normally you would need a 72/2 tooth wheel on a camshaft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Lovely work ashy.:smokin:
Ditto tony with the cam belt, also, are you using cam speed for tdc sensor? I'm guessing you have a correction in the inj comp (not teaching you to suck eggs here) as cams turn half the speed of the crank, so normally you would need a 72/2 tooth wheel on a camshaft.

---

Now then Matt, yes I'm taking the TDC reading from the inlet cam, I haven't checked DTA SWIN yet but I'm sure it'll be able to handle it.

When you say Ditto on the timing belt are you thinking its wrong or multi directional... :confused:

Re cambelt, I'm old so have always done the belt so you can read the writing when facing the engine. Not scare mongering in any way mate, I'll check some renault tech notes in a mo, see if there is any info there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Re cambelt, I'm old so have always done the belt so you can read the writing when facing the engine. Not scare mongering in any way mate, I'll check some renault tech notes in a mo, see if there is any info there.

---

Thanks Matt.

Nearly ready to turn the key.... Any info yet? :scared:

No tech notes on direction apart from if it has direction arrows on it near the part no.
So I think you are ok!!;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

No tech notes on direction apart from if it has direction arrows on it near the part no.
So I think you are ok!!;)

---

Good news, thanks mate, its a genuine Reno belt so thats a relief!

Hope its all going well mate :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattk

Hope its all going well mate :cool:

---

Yes thanks, shes now running :agree: :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCRRkvks6Vg&feature=youtu.be

wooohoooooooo:agree:

Amazing work mate :agree::smokin:

Good lad ash marrow,I'm up this weekend,might call round if your free :agree::disagree:

Yo, aye pop over mate, I've not got anything major planned but just drop us a text to see if I'm in and I'll stick the kettle on!! See if you can drag old Bertie out too :agree:

good stuff ash :)

Smashin! :D

Looking forward to seeing this bad boy finished & running! :niceone:

All back together now, just need to bleed the brakes and the gear linkages need adjusting... Other than that its nearly ready for an MOT :eek:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...1/DSC_0079.jpg


https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...1/DSC_0080.jpg

Ashy ooking good, quiet a few red 5's coming out at the mo:agree:

What's going on with the grill?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

What's going on with the grill?

---

Just needs tweaking, the rad fan is sitting behind it and maybe its touching? Didn't notice until I saw my own photo's :sad2: Its not as obvious in the flesh... I'll be having a look tomorrow :)

Grill should be fixed on outside of slam panel that will probably sort it, looks well though mate!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brigsy

Grill should be fixed on outside of slam panel that will probably sort it, looks well though mate!

---

Aye normaly it would, I've removed the lip on the back of the slam panel to give more clearance for the rad, so was just trying different mounting methods.

Nice one marrow. Awesome!:agree:

GTTs in red are my least favourite (mainly because the paint is hard to maintain) but, your car and Pascal's are making me seriously reconsider this opinion!

Looking freakin great! :cool:

Wowzers trousers! This looks truly excellent. :agree:

MOT booked for sat :eek:

Im sure it will sail through.

Failed last week, appearently new MOT rules don't allow spot / stitch welding on replacement panels! So I had to grind all the underseal off and fully seam weld my inner sills!

I did that last weekend and it went back in yesterday, she now has a full 12 month ticket :)

Just waiting until next friday and I'll be taxing her! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Failed last week, appearently new MOT rules don't allow spot / stitch welding on replacement panels!

---

You can't spot weld the panels that are spot welded on from the factory :sad2:

Pity its not pre 1960's, you dont bloody need an MOT at all then! :eek:

Quick update, big thanks to Scoff (EFI Parts) for spending all day Sunday mapping my car, what a top jobs he's done. Thanks mate.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...202011/001.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...202011/002.jpg

nice one ash tray:)

Great figures ash! And top job mr scoff :agree:

thats some serious power right there :-) good work and nice once mad scientist:cool:

Awesome numbers fella, this is gunna be an animal on track :agree:

Job done marrow!:agree: Got to be pleased with that :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Job done marrow!:agree: Got to be pleased with that :D

---

Yes mate, very pleased :)

Got a few bits and bobs to do to make her perfect, then I plan just to enjoy driving a 5 for once rather than lying under it! :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Yes mate, very pleased :)

Got a few bits and bobs to do to make her perfect, then I plan just to enjoy driving a 5 for once rather than lying under it! :laugh:

---

Well done mate, that is some stonking power!! if I had a bit more luck with the F4R I might have been turbo'd by now but I've turned to the dark side and bought a mk2 golf with a 20vt engine.. exactly what you say I rather be driving that lying under it :)

Nice one Ash, you goto be very happy with that. I'd love to know what thay must feel like. Well done again, that must have be- a much more pleasurable experience than I had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TNT ANDY

Nice one Ash, you goto be very happy with that. I'd love to know what thay must feel like. Well done again, that must have be- a much more pleasurable experience than I had.

---

I'll let you know when I've had a brave pill and tried it at full throttle.... :scared:

I heard you had a mare mate, new cam on the cards?

Awesome result ashy:agree:

Niall, Top work looks like it paid off with all that time and effort fantastic power output, going to be quiet a handful on trackdays:agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

I'll let you know when I've had a brave pill and tried it at full throttle.... :scared:

I heard you had a mare mate, new cam on the cards?

---

balls to brave pill, suck it up and mash that loud pedal! enjoy it whilst its working :laugh: :agree:

Nice nice Ashy. Be careful you dont get sucked into that turbo. It could fit a small country inside that bad boy! :devil:

Minor Update....

Had a few issues with wishbones bending / flexing so I thought I'd try to strengthen the front end...

Subframe and wishbones blasted

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ubframe/1.jpeg

Wishbone mounting points

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Subframe/2.JPG

Top side seam welded.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Subframe/4.JPG

Wishbone Sleeves welded in place

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ubframe/5.jpeg

Subframe and wishbones, gussets in place, strengtheners over wishbone mounting points.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Subframe/6.JPG

Underside of the subframe with additional skins and bracing.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ubframe/7.jpeg

View from other side.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Subframe/8.JPG

Next step is the wishbone to subframe triangulation....

Thats one crazy subframe there mate! :cool: Any more updates on this? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goobie

Thats one crazy subframe there mate! :cool: Any more updates on this? :)

---

Slow progress I'm affraid, just been tinkering over winter ready to be back on the road when it warms up a bit....

Finished the subframe off...

Tie Bar from the wishbone to subframe

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../tie%20bar.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ame/gusset.jpg

After Coating.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ame/coated.jpg

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...me/coated1.jpg

And re-did the engine mounts on the gearbox and added a sixth one from the drivers side chassis leg to the back of the block.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ame/mounts.jpg

Nice and solid now :)

Engines back in just need to fit it all back together and plumb it all in :agree:

Fantastic, what was happening to the components to need this work?

awsome job there ashy on that subframe i will be copying that idea and doing to my r5 to try keep my car from swisting apart when ever i pull my finger out and finish my vw gearbox conversion:)

:eek: :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony Walker

Fantastic, what was happening to the components to need this work?

---

Not sure really as it was all going on out of sight but things were moving, you could feel it through the wheel, i broke 3 engine mounts and the wheels kept moving back in the arch as the bushes through the wishbones moved.

I figured that if I was going to build new mounts then it was an opertunity to strengthen the subframe and wishbones at the same time. :cool:

Wow, good stuff, man your a handy guy :)

Who painted the subframe for you, very nice job? I used a place in the team valley for mine, did the whole lot for about £100 if my memory serves.

**** hot work Ashy :agree:

Just read this thread from start to finish- wowser! Have you had it on the rolling road yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TopCat

Just read this thread from start to finish- wowser! Have you had it on the rolling road yet?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Quick update, big thanks to Scoff (EFI Parts) for spending all day Sunday mapping my car, what a top jobs he's done. Thanks mate.

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...202011/001.jpg

---

She made 402bhp mate.

****ting hell. That's unreal. You're a talented man!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TopCat

****ting hell. That's unreal. You're a talented man!

---

Thanks :)

Are you taking it to nationals? If you are I'll bring some tissues

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TopCat

Are you taking it to nationals? If you are I'll bring some tissues

---

Yeah Deffo mate :agree:

Did you do all the fabricateing mate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chris

Did you do all the fabricateing mate?

---

Yes :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Yes :agree:

---

Very impressive :agree:

All coming together now, spent a few hours today tidying up the interior whilst I wait for the snow to melt so I can take her out for the first run of 2013.....

Dash

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...erior/dash.jpg


New Seats...

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...rior/seats.jpg


Ready to go.....

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%.../external.jpeg

Nial car is looking awesome so loving the new seats. What seats are they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Nial car is looking awesome so loving the new seats. What seats are they?

---

They look like the clio 200 recaros, think new megane has same style as well

Do love how the dash looks in that car, great work there :agree:

Looking good as always mate fingers crossed you have a good year of happy safe boosting ahead. :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Logg

Looking good as always mate fingers crossed you have a good year of happy safe boosting ahead. :agree:

---

Thanks mate, i've got everything crossed cos I haven't had too much luck over the years :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigfoot

They look like the clio 200 recaros, think new megane has same style as well

Do love how the dash looks in that car, great work there :agree:

---

They are the same but mine are from a Corsa VXR!

Having had a buchers in person at this car at scoffs rr day last year it really is minty mint! The seats and dash really take the car out of the 80's and into the present day, ohh and of course the engine/power output :cool:

really is a fantastic bit of work:agree:

Love the flockead dash... Something i have thought about for my 172.

Great work ashy :)

This thing is going to go like a rocket. Blown away by it tbh.

Good move on the wheels ash,looks stacks better :agree:

lovely car mate!!

are those power figures on stock cams?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 123-gtt

Good move on the wheels ash,looks stacks better :agree:

---

Thanks Al, needed to go to 16's so I could fit 205's for more grip...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tutuur

lovely car mate!!

are those power figures on stock cams?

---

Yes thats correct, std 172 cams, standard timing with no VVT.

This is a great project:agree:

Well done for all that hard work it's clearly paid off:agree:

Hope to see it in the flesh if your at national day:)

Candidate for best 5 ever I reckon. :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T.K

Candidate for best 5 ever I reckon. :agree:

---

:eek:

Thanks but that's a big claim!

Good work as usual ashy!

excellent job:agree:

i was just wondering, how much boost pressure does it run mate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tutuur

i was just wondering, how much boost pressure does it run mate?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...202011/002.jpg

---

21psi mate.

Ashy can I have intercourse with your car please

lol! lovely result mate!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

21psi mate.

---

have you done anything else to the engine?
how much difference do cams make on this set up?
are you running a t04e turbo?
the reason i ask ,and please dont take this the wrong way , but the f7p turbo lump in jp's made 370 bhp at 16.5psi, (t04b) and i would have thought the f4r being a bigger capacity, possibly better flowed head design, would have produced more:scratch:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HAndy

have you done anything else to the engine?
how much difference do cams make on this set up?
are you running a t04e turbo?
the reason i ask ,and please dont take this the wrong way , but the f7p turbo lump in jp's made 370 bhp at 16.5psi, (t04b) and i would have thought the f4r being a bigger capacity, possibly better flowed head design, would have produced more:scratch:

---

The engine is fully forged but other than that and APR bolts etc its std cams, std head (phase 1) slight overbore. Turbo is a GT3071R... I guess it depends on lots of things but at the end of the day its just a RR figure.

i've been wondering that too but i guess it's everything together.

maybe he has a better manifold, he's using a uprated cam probably better timed in then the standard f4r's are.

isn't JP's head flowed too? down low you see the difference though, Ashy's produces more out of boost.

iirc Scoff mentioned JP's breaths really well...

is yours on standard cam timing Ashy?

Coley telt me have a look on here when I was talking the other day........i am amazed with the work you've done like fella.

Top class work.....take a bow :worship:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GT Josh

Ashy can I have intercourse with your car please

---

:laugh: :)

Amazing car. Really like what you did to strengthen the wishbones :agree:

JP's was an unusual example, but most of that can be explained by his cams and other work. Overlay the 2 plots and Ashy will have more in the midrange. Peak HP figures are just that, a peak figure. It doesn't tell us what's happening the rest of the time.

Ashy's is typical of what should happen at 1.5 bar from a standard engine. A standard F7P would not have done that.

PS looking again at ashy's plot I'd say some inlet cam advance would help to bring midrange up a bit more and make peak HP a bit lower down. Maybe a good thing if it's predominantly a road and track car.

Scoff,

Was going to pick your brains on the 225 vs 172 cams debate. Cant remeber what the spec of each is, but i have a set of both to choose from!:sad2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

JP's was an unusual example, but most of that can be explained by his cams and other work. Overlay the 2 plots and Ashy will have more in the midrange. Peak HP figures are just that, a peak figure. It doesn't tell us what's happening the rest of the time.

Ashy's is typical of what should happen at 1.5 bar from a standard engine. A standard F7P would not have done that.

---

true ,but cant help but think jp's inlet/exhaust cams are no where near correct,his inlet is retarded by a long way! he only set up to cam cover marks, and when i dialled exact same cam set up on mine some three weeks later using dti etc, using the same cam marks as reference, inlet was showing 138 atdc , dialed in four times, and got pretty much the same results,give or take 1 degree, alright there could be variations in the cam grinds etc, and his head could be different height to mine, but i could'nt help but think his graph was way to flat in ther middle because of this?

and not knocking ashy's fantastic build here , but i would have thought ashy's gt3071r should be a lot more effecient flow wise , than the chin chong to4b of jp's, and produce much better results everywhere on the map per psi, they are both using very similar inlet manifold setups /runner lengths? and free flowing exhaust set ups, jp's head is megane f7r port matched to inlet and flowed, would it be that far away from a f4r head in standard form in performance? just trying to gauge how much of a difference there would be between the newer f4 and the older f7 engines thats all, :scratch::)

just read your entire build thread again ashy, great build:cooter:

ps is the anti surge compressor needed on this set up?

Yes andy, all that retard in the inlet will flatten the middle and sometimes help hp at the top depending on what the overlap is like.

Think about it this way. A stock 172 makes between 164 abd 168hp on my dyno. Lets assume ashy's engine does the same without boost. Very cruedly speaking at 1.5 bar of boost we've got 2.5 times the air flow, so we get 2.5 times the power. 164 x 2.5 = 410hp. Of course nothing's 100% efficient like that so 400hp is exactly what I'd expect. You can't magic air flow out of thin air :)

In JP's case, to be able to make 370hp at 16psi we must be making in the order of 180hp without boost. Its more than I would have expected but not outside the realm of possibility. With the dyno we have the possibility of reading low if we're slipping wheels but absoloutely nothing that could ever make it read high, so something about his engine works very well :)

Not enough boost in either case to worry about an anti-surge shroud on those turbos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matt Cole

Scoff,

Was going to pick your brains on the 225 vs 172 cams debate. Cant remeber what the spec of each is, but i have a set of both to choose from!:sad2:

---

Horses for corses matt, but if you're still planning on using that big turbo, you certainly don't want anything as poxy as a set of 225 cams :)

well, i'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or anything, or be ****tin on Ashy because the result is great in every way but:

there's a lad on cliosport who had a completely standard trophy, fitted rods, pistons and megane sparkplugs and a gt2871r on top.

this is the thread with result:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showt...oTrophy-update

he made 340lb/ft at 1.2bar and 374 peak hp. Ashy's powerband is obviously alot flatter/ smoother/ broader but this does show there could be had more torque/power with this boost level..

then again, it isn't rolled on the same rollers so there could be a difference in that ofcourse, i don't know how legit the RStuning rollers are??

for Matt:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...pse10316af.jpg

Tutuur, thats Steves car. It's a fantastic result from only 1.2 bar. I don't think we'd see that power on my dyno at 1.2 bar. 1.3 bar might do it. So it also depends on how accurate people are with their boost figures. It might have been 1.28 bar for example. That alone would just about explain it. Or maybe the average was 370hp and his dyno recorded a peak of 374. I always filter final results to show an avarage rather than a spurious spike. There's lots of explanations.

Ashy's power output was just fine and right where I'd expect it to be at 1.5 bar.

My memory also tells me we did that with 95 ron. Ashy will confirm. Another 10hp might have been possible with extra octane.

yes, Steve it is indeed.

however when you look in his thread you'll see you're right about the peak. it's only a peak of 374 where 500rpm earlier and later it's 'only' 360bhp.

ron 95 might explain a thing or 2 indeed. as mentioned before, the result is great in every way but improvement is always possible as you off the most would know :D

how much timing does 95 differ to 98 on the knock limit? i understand it's guessing but in your experience whats the trend?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

PS looking again at ashy's plot I'd say some inlet cam advance would help to bring midrange up a bit more and make peak HP a bit lower down. Maybe a good thing if it's predominantly a road and track car.

---

I keep trying to persuade him to wire in the solenoid but hes having non of it.

It's an interesting comparison Ashy's vs my Trophy, when Scoff was mapping it I popped up for a catch up with both him and Ashy and I was shocked when it made exactly the same as mine did at 1 bar, we both made 340bhp ish. I've always been led to believe that the bigger the turbo the less boost required for more power :rolleyes: I must admit that the GT28 .86 housing flows exactly the same as the GT30 .63 housing so that could account for some of it but I honestly expected the 60mm turbine wheel and the tubular manifold to prove it's worth on Ashy's.

As it's all unfolding I probably should of just stuck with my logg mani and fitted a stronger box, admittedly Ashys seems to flow better at the top end as like Tutuur points out mine starts to drop off whilst Ashys was begging for more boost :D It makes me wonder about dyno tuning as Paul @ RStuning has built several megane forged lumps on GTX3071/76 and there all making 450bhp @ 1.5 bar which using Scoffs conversion would make it a 180 bhp N/a lump which is unlikely due to the lower comp.

Matt, Andrew Cooke had me looking at Evo cams (kelfords) and comparing things like where peak power came in, what rpm was needed, how crap lower rpm was and idling issues, overlap etc.... we both came to the same conclusion that what I'm using was the best compromie. I have a spare set you can use but, obviously I'm using VVT and your not so your limited on the inlet cam choice. I would probably get a 182/197 head.

Mine and Ashy's for easy comparison.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps35c50f01.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...rophysep10.jpg

----
but I honestly expected the 60mm turbine wheel and the tubular manifold to prove it's worth on Ashy's.
----

Like I say steve, you can't magic up airflow from thin air :) At those power levels the smaller turbo in your case is still flowing adequate, so there is next to no advantage from ashy's larger turbine, etc. Raise the boost to 1.7 bar and it's a different story.

Compression ratio doesn't affect matters as much as you might think. For the rule of thumb to work we ignore the drop in power which might happen at NA because of the low CR.

More like 190hp at NA for those 225 engines if they're making 450hp at 1.5 bar. Nothing is 100% efficient :) I guess they have cams in them.

Yeah they have custom catcams to help them flow a bit better.

He recently did a rs250 forged with stock cams and a gtx28 turbo on a tubular manifold and it made 399bhp and 360lb/ft at 1.4 bar which I suppose is quite comparable with Ashy's power wise but shows that the slightly restrictive cams and smaller turbine wheel are helping the torque

That was the most we could get out of my set up, any more increase in boost just saw the EGT's and and Torque rising but no increase in BHP

Went for a drive tonight, pulling up a hill in third, full boost went for 4th, foot down then nothing, lost all drive.... :eek:

Managed to free wheel into a nearby industrial estate and pull over. Selected gears fine, no loud bang or noises, engine running sweet... Assumed the worst, diff / gearbox failure :cry:

A-framed her home, had a quick look underneath and found it had destroyed a CV joint on the passenger side :eek:

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ment/image.jpg

Funny how its killed the VW cv not the Gtt one!

Oh we'll least the engine doesn't need to come back out :agree:

Impressive..... and annoying lol

ohh err..... surprised like you said the vw side let go:eek:

i dont think anybody else who is running this set up has broken the inner vw cv before the outer:scratch:

maybe its just bad luck that the drive shafts inner cv were worn/weakened before they were modded to fit the 5 :crap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony Walker

Impressive..... and annoying lol

---

Think that's hit the nail right on the head..........

Or maybe it's time to turn the boost down LOL :laugh:

Noooooooooooooo:wasntme:

the bolts on the inner are quite common for backing off. maybe a couple of bolts came loose and bang. make sure the next ones are lock tighted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tony Walker

the bolts on the inner are quite common for backing off. maybe a couple of bolts came loose and bang. make sure the next ones are lock tighted.

---

Yeah I've had that before on my old passat, however these had done less than 100 miles since putting the engine back in :crap:

Ash!

What injectors are you running? By the looks of it they are 630cc deka's?
I've been having trouble idling with them.

What are your pw's at idle? Or don't you have wari on your laptop yourself?

Cheers

Yes mate 630cc Siemens Deka Injectors, my idle is fine... Duno what the PW is at idle, I use a DTA ecu and the software is on my other laptop... I'll check at the weekend :)

Thanks mate! Everywhere i read people are having no problems with the 630cc's but i'm idling around 11:1 with 1.3ms which is about lowest it will go without going very unlinear.

hi mate,

did you have a look? i guess you're running sequential too btw?

cheers!

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Superb read Ashy!

What seats are they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian M

What seats are they?

---

Post 268 ;)

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Sorry missed that!

Maybe i missed it but how did you seal up the oil channels in the cam?

I'm in the process of fitting 172 cams to a 225 engine so need to block the holes.

He made some dowels and also blocked up the hole in the bolt.;)

How's the car mate, still going strong?

I'm in the process of building a 225 engine into my 197 and thought about this thread, convinced me into going big turbo instead of bodgering with an hybrid td04 shitcan