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When started it runs fine idles fine even boosts fine but is knocking at the same speed it sounds like its coming from the back of the engine. As I say it starts fine so could it be the starter not disengaging? Or am I up sh1t street and the engines buggerd? It went away for a bit then came back with avengence. The 5 is now in the garage. And staying there as Iv had enough of it for now.. Anyone had the same? :scratch:
Manifold gasket can sound like a knock
U got exhaust downpipe bracket in place? Might be loose
Really? Hmmm I was thinking of taking the manifold off to see if the starter is playing up. It really sounds bad though but runs fine. Manifold gasket is one of the very few things I haven't replaced. Just wondering why it would go away then come back?
Maybe you have lost some of your manifold nuts?? or they are loose.
As they expand with heat, they become looser, making the noise. As they cool, they tighten and the noise goes??Just a guess...
Get some locking nuts and a new gasket maybe...:)
My fears are its alot worse than that... But I will give it a go..
see if you can record the sound and upload it.
I only have the iPhone to come on here but photoshop won't play sound.. Could you pm me your number and I send it?
Bring it round here if you want will have a look
ive not got the internet working on my phone yet lol. since i swapped to my sim from my wifes contract.
Regular tapping ?
Does it change when you press the clutch in ?
Does it happen to knocker louder / harder when you rev the engine but almost go quiet when you let off the thottle ( then it returns on idle ) ?
It's very metallic we just had the cover off and two of the rods feel a little bit looser than the others.. I'm hoping it's that.. Video to follow off ron. Cheers for coming down so fast..
Here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kNoD...e_gdata_player
Like he said sounds like tappets I'm going round tomorrow to dig abit deeper starting with the tappets
Bottom end knock that mate. Sounds identical to mine when it failed. I have a post and video on here ...
If you mean push rods then they will?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Should the pushrods be loose? The two closest the turbo are looser than the others. So Andy did your bottom end go?
Just out of interest what boost was you running?
I ran predominatly 14psi on a t2/25 for 300mi , then around 100mi at 20psi on a t28.
Yep same. Bugger :-) so how much am I looking at?
Two schools of thought!
1) Pikey. ( aka AndyBond )
Bang a new ( to you ) engine in it. Fingers crossed it stays together
2) DILAP ( Do It Like A Pro )
Replace all the internal moveable parts ( big ends , caps all that jazz ) and do it properly.
2) will cost slightly more, but your electricity bills will go down as you will have a inner glow that you have done a job properly.
:-( it does have a knocking noise the more you rev it gutted mate
So roughly in ££ Full rebuild
You building it yourself ?
Yep in for a penny..
or you take the sump off.Quote:
Originally Posted by andybond
undo the big end caps - and change the shells.
then undo ALL the main caps and check the crank surface, then using a feeler gauge - push the shells out on top of the crank. use a small screwdriver to push the new ones back in. you will probably not be able to change the top bearing closest to the timing cover as the chain/tensioner will not allow you really pull the crank down at all.
also remember to pack the base of the oil pump with molyslip grease.
cost of the bearings is about £50
big end bearings - £28
main bearings-£31
h/g set-£50
bottom end gasket set-£30
thrust washers-£6
timing chain-£30
you will also need the crank checked for damage
while its apart I would get new piston rings - £60, and hone the liners,
cant thing of anything else at the min
not alot really if you are going to do it yourself
Oh that's not bad at all... I thought.. Box of matches 20p :cry:
Probs a silly question, but what is the most likely cause of a bottom end failure? Over revving? High miles/wear an tear?
So who has the links to step by step rebuild.. Had a quick look through wizard..
Well I never over revved it never been over 6ooo it's more lickley poor fuelling as my carb was always too rich.. Plus 20psi must of just been too much.. I never went above 100mph until a couple of days ago but only did it the once. Drive fine until today then today it just happend out of nowhere.. Think I will just leave the 5 in the garage for a bit.. It's eaten all my ££££.. Silly boy.. :cry:
Burn it :devil: sell it :scratch: or fix it? :sad2:
your carb and turbo have caused the damage when we checked carb it was a standard venturi 1.5 main jet and a 1.5 second stage defo over fueling in low 10,s cant be good for your big end bearings and piston rings and running more than 1bar would be no good for them even with your new turbo the actuator bracket was held on with one bolt and wasent boosting right the bracket was bending and it took its time for the gauge to move while on full throttle. id be looking for a second hand engine with a 285 cam in it or buy one and put it in you need one for the T25 you have. keep the other engine for spares. ill help you drop it in if you need a hand.:) dont give up on the 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Selling a blown bottom end in classifieds if it's of interest, fairly local aswell, rebuild and slap your head on, job done.
the excess fuel dilutes the oil nicely - ruins the oils properties.
Anyone got any napalm :mad:
:sad2:
Ha tony is that the shake of discussed?
Its easily done :( there just too damn fun even when you know its not right the damn cars make you boot it lol.
I didnt realise it had a 1.5 main jet in it tho :( thats a massive no no :disagree: chances are its contaminated your oil and killed the bearings.
But I only drive at 30mph and use it on Sundays to take nanna shopping. I'm going to have to leave it now this year I think as its broke my bank killed my sex life the kids hate me and my street cred went from hero to zero in a day. And I'm dreading all the **** I'm going to take at work tomorrow. The question is now who's engine do I trust? Do I rebuild my own? Do I go all out and tear it to bits? But as of now and prob the next twelve months it's back to the bike for me.. I was getting fat anyway :cry:
Rebuild it yourself :)
Ill bet the failure was down to poor oil pressure and very thin oil due to bore washing as fuelling was too rich, revs dont kill these engines as i regularly bang mine off the limiter which is well over 7k... If your setup is very rich on the mid range regular oil changes are a must for long life, i change mine every 2k or even after an event if its been used hard.
I haven't even done 2k since buying it and Iv redone all the oils the waters everything. The main probs I can see was the oooodles of fuel it's been running. My bad I know.. Re build it my self I wouldn't have a clue.. I could get the bible out I guess.. I'm just going to leave it for a while then strip it right down. There was a bit of scum but after a journey that vanished. No crrap on the dipstick but some in the rocker.. I just put it in the garage after yesterday and when it started I couldn't hear it then 1500 revs it was there again. It's strange no loss of power just noise.. Buggin :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
Engine guys would you say do the inspection with the engine in or should I just take it out and start again? :scratch:
Is you oil level good? not over full/empty
My pressure is off the scale then returns to 4 then 5 we had the turbo feed of last night and that pumped into a cup just fine and the oil looked good to me no contaminants.
Maybe try draining the oil and see if theres any silver or fuel in oil then take sump off and have a look at shells and see if cranks floating thats what i would do but i am no expert on car engines
Pull the lot out and check it over. I definitely wouldn't rely on the standard oil pressure gauge matey.
Pull the lot out? You mean all the internals? Or you mean take the engine out?
if you are not in a rush/can use another car as a daily, take it out and rebuild it propper in your own time:D
its a great opportunity to build a strong engine to the spec you want.
I built my first engine over the winter months - and tbh I thoroghly enjoyed it and learnt so much along the way - cant beat a day in the garage working on the 5 :agree:(unless you are driving it)
All the info you need is on here or in the haynes... DO IT :laugh:
Do it. As said you will learn so much:scratch: Great fun:D
I'm going to check a few things out first take one bit off at a time then the clutch inspection plate just I was thinking what If something fell in there? Look at everything before taking the engine to bits it just Dosnt seem right that the engine would be fine one minute and not the next. Sadly it's all down to money now I thought spending all the money on the extras was the way to go and then the knocking happend.. I hope it's something simple. Iv booked next week off. I know the mrs won't be happy but tough. so if I haven't found out by monday I will take it apart and learn myself. Got nothing to lose..
Dude ,
you are playing exactly the same game as I have just played. Its the game of doubt. You dont want to believe your engine is FUBAR so you look for other things , has something gone down the carb that shouldnt? Is something in the bellhousing? Has the clutch shat its biscuits and is now rattling ?
Ill place a big big bet on it ( a packet of* CHOCOLATE hobnobs ) its the bottom end and nothing else.
* virtual
So just take it all out then and strip it?
So I just rang cgb and they priced a bottom end £200 they won't sell full engine as can not gâteau what head gaskets in it. Makes sense really but from what you guys say it's about £200 to build my own.. So Iv got enough tools to get the engine in & out what would I need as in special tools? I could borrow a T wrench from my mate.. Cheers guys looking forward to building it now. :) so I get the head bolts from RToC shop.. Weres best for HD gasket? Remember I want the big boost this time.. If any one has a list that would be great :agree:
Speak to Mike @ GT Turbo Spares, he'll sort you out with all the bits you need ;)
I can help you take the engine out I've got tools and engine crane just let me know when
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The new wheels for a while I need the excercise any way :cartman:
Hi guys help us out I can't find it on here.. How to strip the bottom end.. Cheers
You looked in your hanyes manual mate
Doh what I should of said was better pics than the bible
Will see what I can find
Depends how much your stripping. Engine mount front drivers off, lift engine up take sump off(will just about come off) Then id personally just try big ends, undo one cap at a time, being carefull to take the cap off and keep it in the same direction(dont turn it around they are snapped so that they will only tighten one way round, it should be pretty obvious when pushing the cap on to the rod which way round it goes, itll either mate nicely or not) with the piston at the bottom of its throw is easiest, then push piston/rod upwards remove bearing from rod and cap noting which way round the bearing tags are positioned replace the new bearing making sure surfaces are clean, check the big end crank journals if there not scored put some oil on the cap/rod/crank and pull the piston/rod back down on to the crank journal. place cap back on (in the correct direction, it should fit together nicely) new rod nuts should be used (i have personally re-used mine) Tighten the nuts evenly to its first torque stage(around 20nm thats a geuss so check that) then tighten to second stage( around 45nm i think,again check that) then check engine turns over freely, and on to the next cylinder. Wont take you long :D
The plot thickens looking around the engine bay and a but is missing of the Turbo to exchaust.. Hmmm could it of Fallen into the gearbox? :scratch:
Not unless you have a big hole in the top of your gearbox? :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
I was thinking the TDC part plus I don't have the cover on the rubber type.. Clutching at straws I no.
Both the TDC part and the rubber jonny give access to the clutch mechanism. If the clutch is working (relatively) fine, then it shouldn't be that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
If there's a exhaust blow though you need to sort that, exhaust blows can make dodgy sounds.
Clutch is spot on and brand new.. It's a definat metalick loud noise check it out a bit further up this tread.. As I say I know I'm clutching at straws.. I can't get to strip the car till next week but im ready for the worst..
Quick update :) good news a garage near me has been doing the mrs car mot and Iv had some work done on her car as well told all my friends to go there as he was very good and well priced.. So I got chatting to him about the 5 and what has happend.. Told him what I planned to do ie rebuild the engine.. He had a couple a grands work sent to him through me and said he was gratefull.. So he only said get my engine out strip everything off the block and bring it to him. He then said his lads stand about too much and as long as I leave it with him for a week they will strip it send it of to be rebuilt and while it's there have the flywheel lightendand balenced.. No charge for the stripping and rebuild just the work thy needs doing at the engineers.. Top banana!!! Il have a bit a that thank you.. Much happier. So the plan is Wednesday engine back out and strip it down.. :p. much happier today
So next question is if I have the flywheel lightend an balanced will I need to change my clutch in any way as its only done about 700 miles since new.. Also never done this before
nope. :agree:
:)
There's an engine on eBay for £300 is it anyone on here?
So with the engine out I'm going to lose and move a few pipes and tidy the bay up. How a what can I remove keep and move??
Been looking at cams.. What is the standard cam good upto? I have the t25 now do I need to start looking at the 270 or 280 piper? I aim to run a good 18-20psi.. Has anyone got all I need used?? Or should I buy new? Figured if I'm going to do this Im going to do this right.. Must be loads of heads out there?
Well the big day is here.. Got some time off work so after a week of just leaving her in the garage it's full investigation day.. See what the knocking is get her up on axel stands and get under her. If I still can't pin point the knocking tomorrow I'm taking the engine out and full strip down will happen.. Let's hope it's not too much damage.. Fingers crossed I will get to this years ND.. Let's see what we find...:scared:
It really sounds top end knocking could I of dropped a valve? Everything feels ok been under the car and it Definatley sounds top end.. Any advice? Or should I just whip it off?
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
You're talking about engine rebuilds, yet you don't actually know what the issue is yet....get it diagnosed properly and stop grabbing at straws.
Never take any 'noise' as a given on these old French sheds until you've proof in front of you.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
....OK, to give a better idea:
Does the frequency of the noise increase with engine speed? (ie, Not Road speed)
Does it change depending on whether the engine is accelerating or decelerating?
Does the engine miss at all, or is it consistently firing on 4 as it should?
What is your mechanical ability? Can you get the sump off and remove a big end cap to check the bearing? Do you own a torque wrench to refit it properly?
Cheers for the reply.. Soon as I started it the car was silent running lumpy but running then two seconds later a load rattling from the top end.. Had the plugs out and nearest the turbo looks like its dinted inside been losing water only a bit there is smeg in there so I'm in the process of taking the head off now.. Time to stop pissing around and find out what it is.. Either way it needs looking at as its a terrible load knocking not a small noise..
bloody hell paul get head off because there is a gasket fault and take sump off take big end bearings off and pull pistons out the top and check the shells and check that the cranks not scorn after hearing it that day it sounded just like my old 5 and that was the problem if your not sure just strip it down like i told you and ill come take a look and if the crank looks ok ill put pistons back in for ya. if cranks scorn id be looking for a new bottom end or a complete engine.
It wasn't a bearing at all it was a washer in number 1 piston like I thought all along look its ruined my head and the piston top. So I think I will just by a new engine and be done.:mad:
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Gutted...
Gutted mate hopefully be sorted soon
That looks like its been detting its nads off tbh mate. The knocking will have been off the piston
I went and looked he found a battered washer on top of the piston
how would a washer get into the piston?
must have been dropped in through the spark plug hole:eek: or just ended up there as a stray the last time the head was off:disagree:
Taking the head to see if it can be saved it measured at 73.2 so getting close anyway.. I will make ND:) What's a good price for head work? On the car that is
Well good news getting the head sorted today skimmed and machined for a cracking price. He said the hg was gone anyway so looks like I would have had todo this anyway.. What I need is a part number for a 1.8mm head gasket as I want this built today!!! My local factor says he can get it today if orders before 2pm.. Cheers guys..
It might be 1.9mm mate thinking about it?! Cant actually remember 100%. You need the corteco mellior gasket or the payen gasket, both work fine. Any half decent motor factors should be able to get you the payen, gsf used to do the mellior. Dont buy the cheap gaskets unless you want to replace it again soon.
Oooooh no no no. No more doing it on the cheap.. I will mail mike...
Never knew there was a gsf in Nottingham I got the cortego? For £26 pick it up tomorrow. Cooking on gas:-)
Might be worth chcking the exhaust wheel for damage on the turbo whilst its apart matey the remainders of the metal will have went thru it:(
Been through all parts and thankfully I took my time home and didnt bring the turbo in. Stripped everything now and all looks ok thankfully.. Picking up new gaskets in the morning and will rebuild tomorrow now.. Just going to clean for the rest of the day while waiting for the head back but at last I can see the light :)
Nice mate will try and pop over after work tomorrow
What a service took it the 4hrs later done..
Nottingham area guys i can't praise this guy enough and he welcomes members business..
This is the best he could do with how bad the head was but all tested and says its fine.
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share.
W.s bates ltd
434 Westdale lane
Mapperly
Nottingham
Ng3 6dg
Tel 0115 9604407
All engine work carried out skimming etc etc
Nice should be running at the weekend :-)
did he do the bottom end as well? i remember seeing in your pics that your piston was toast. what about the liner? was that replaced?
The liner is luckily untouched and no scoring and the top of the piston was just slightly dented the head took the most damage.. I didn't lose any compression car drove fine it was just noise. Everything else checks out fine so far.. No more bits nothing in the oil everythings tight no movement.. Hopefully its sorted just waiting for bolts to arrive now then back on the road.. They are tough little engines but bits in the engine will never have a happy ending.. Such a shame too as the engine may of looked dirty but was very quiet and pulled very well.. Hope this hasn't changed that or I'm taking it of the road and going down the 172 route :)
What size are the bolts on the blanking plate to the head? M6? :scratch:
What's the best way at home with limited tools to flatern the surface on my turbo elboe as its leaking. Cgb wouldn't sell me the gasket as my t25 it is a tomcat.. Flat belt sander? Doit by hand? The wench has took the car so I can't take it anywhere..
Belt sander in a vice, a pair of decent gloves and take it easy.
Not the best way but itd be enough to get you out of trouble.
I thought the tomcat was a T25 ???
It is but on the 5 it misses one bolt which I did tell him but he wouldn't sell me it.. I know it misses one bolt.. He just didn't want any come backs I guess even though I know it's not a straight fit..
Buy a gasket off ebay for it, or a belt sander or file
So gave up for today bored of cleaning I'm not a shiney guy.. Got the head gasket my old one had the red strip this new one has a blue strip is that correct? Got new bolts new water gaskets new refurbed carb with standard jets on the way oil filter and oil and water coolant should be hear tomorrow.. Sunday it's rebuild time.. Just a dam shame Iv missed bluntys day.. Always next time.. Atleast I know how to change the head gasket as well now.. In four months I have now done EVERYTHING to this 5..grooved Rear discs and pads next then get it set up properly for18 or 20psi.. I loved it too much to have less then I'm leaving it in the garage until next event.. :cartman:
:-) will be running Sunday just let me know what time and will pop down with the torque wrench
Two hrs making my t25 bracket fit correctly :cry: now to start building my head back up :) but my backs killing me :disagree: should be out boosting not this :sad2: oh and my mrs now hates me :upyours:
So I gave up today.. Ready to fit the head when the bolts arrive tomorrow.. What's the torq for the head bolts guys??
i do mine to 75nm:).
Bolts are here :) new carb bloody ditched though all ready to go back on looks like the 5 will be ready for the weekend.. Then it's :burnrubber: so the new carb says it has 1.2 jets in what boost are the good for? I want to be running 18 should talk to me what's needed?
Well thanks to r5turboron for coming over and putting my head back on for me.. Great help and much appreciated.. Another great helpfull member.. Tommorr put the turbo back on pipe her flush her out then :) nearly there... Thanks again your a star..
Your welcome mate hopefully get mine running at the weekend :-)
ITS ALIVE!:):):) :burnrubber:
So after all that it was a washer dropped in there.. That didn't need to happen £150 that could of been spent elsewhere.. Boosting in the sun tommorow.. Happy days..
:D boost
So Iv put a standard carb on now with 1.2 jets and so I'm running 20psi I tried to read my AFR. On tick over it reads 14 to low 14s driving 13s low boost 12s high bossys 13s so do I drill out to 1.3? Do we have a step by step? Obviously no more boost untill this is done.. Cheers
You want to listen for det now the head has been skimmed mate...try 1.3mm 2nd, if you need more fuel make the air corrector smaller
It runs sweet as matey.. How would detting sound? It pulls like a train still still impressed with the t25 power but I know the AFR is the key to long life.. Cheers
It can still det even when the afr's are good, like brigsy says you need to listen for it properly.
I would describe it as someone ruffling a packet of crisps under the bonnet. You need a very keen ear to listen for it when without a stethoscope/det cans.
I use a cheap mechanics stethoscope bolted to the front of the block, just bend the rod round a bolt;)
Then using 6mm nylon hardpipe run it into the cockpit even with a steth you have to listen out for it.
Anyone know the size of the sump washer? Mines a leaking?
Its a crush washer. Replace everytime after using .
Indeed, I keep a stock of em. Its a copper ring with a rubber insert I think. Available from all decent accessory shops, and Halfords :DQuote:
Originally Posted by andybond
Next epic in my not so successfull ownership of a 5.. Got no bloody turbo now.. Iv replaced all boost hoses with different ones and still no boost. This turbo has only done around 500 miles.. Any ideas no obvious leaks the shafts move around when revved no oil loss.. It makes a slight wereing noise then stops but no boost at all.. Any ideas.. Knew I should of bought a cossie :-)
No ideas?
Cracked rear housing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Nope turbo seems fine it's baffled me Iv had everything off to all day looked over everything no obvious blowing no noises and runs fine as a 1.4 it's done me..
I had the turbo all the way off the car checked it back and front the only thing I didn't do was take it apart.. It really has blown my mind..
Iv re built the carb this weekend and I went up the road after it boosted fine I went up the bypass it boosted fine then back down the bypass no boost.. Could it be anything todo with the carb? Also how come the pipe turbo side on the carb pull the top 6mm pipe off the car runs lumpy the one that gos to the actuator. But the one to the aei unit when you pull that one off it runs normal? I even to the actuator pipe off and went for a run and still no boost.. It's ever since Iv done the carb I even took that back apart and all that looked fine.. Baffled :scratch:
I think I'm just going to have to rip it apart yet again tommorow then spread it out look over everything again and if nothing found.. Burn the mucking thing it's a pain in my arse :) the bad times are weighing out the good at the minute.. I don't understand how it can run but no boost?
are you sure there is no air leak anywhere? if it was boosting fine before i doubt it is an issue with the carb.
are all the pipes and hoses connected correctly?
We swooped all the pipes over with known good ones even changed the lobster as I mensioned how can I disconnect the actuator and still nothing? Very strange..
Just to make sure I'm not going daft. On the flywheel side of the carb the 6mm pipe on the brass tube gos to the actuator and the lowest one gos to the aei yes?
Yep pipes go as described bud.
So I was just informed that there should be NO play in the new turbines!! Well there's a mm each side in the exchaust side I'm thinking the new t25 is knackerd? GUTTED :cry:
1mm each side of turbo is fine its when the turbines pushes backwards and forwards id be worried about it. did you put the actuator bracket on properly as the last time you came to me it was held on by one bolt and when you hit boost the guage moved very slow and the actuator bracket was bending.
All bolted correctly two bolts in but no boost at all. I saw the blades moving but I didn't rev the nuts off it stood still. When I drive it Dosnt come in at all.. Worked fine yesterday nothing today.. Iv had an offer of another turbo to try first before taking this one back. I have checked everything else changed all pipes back to standard ones and also changed from pace intercooller to standard and still nothing :scratch:
have you tried taking top lobster of and look down the carb and give it a bit of throttle see if any fuel sprays out the emulsion tube down the carb throat.
I haven't but what would that do?
turbos even completely goosed still produces pressure albeiit not as well. for a turbo to not produce any pressure it would have to be masssssssssssssssively screwed. chances are the actuators screwed. how easy is it to move the actuator rod? it should be pretty dificult..... if its a stronger actuator then you should really struggle moving it.
It's a -31 actuator and it's tough to move it Iv blown into it and can't budge it. Iv pulled it and it's stiff. I disconnected it and still nothing. It's bugging mate
boost leak, choke flap not returned to correct position?
If theres no obvious boost leaks & wastegate is still on id take the turbo off and check it out.
In theory it can only be massive boost leak, you would hear a whistling though, wastegate popped off actuator, turbine blades are jammed for some reason stopping it from spinning or the exhaust turbine has come off. When my exhaust turbine sheared off it smoked like a mofo though.
Right im going to strip this car once more then it's matches and petrol for it :mad:
So if I put my hand on the turbo to intercooller exit it should blow my hand off of it with pressure that's the only thing I didn't try really I stripped it down three times yesterday..
That's it I give up in ripping off the turbo signs it's now a campus.. Iv stripped it four times all the exchaust now has gaskets and paste so they defo are not leaking Iv blown down the vac pipes and nothing escapes.. The beast way I can discernible it is it sounds like an owl not a whistle.. The turbo has no cracks no oil no real movement.. It's done me!! Petrol regulator? Iv haven't got a scooby dooooo anymore I really haven't..
So let me get this right. Rebuilt all engine ok, test drive went ok with boost achieved? Stripped and cleaned carb, road test with boost initially then none? Sounds like the engine isn't creating enough exhaust to build boost? Does it go well just minis boost or does it feel really flat? Seems odd that it was ok initially then nothing. Does it feel like it want to boost but just holds back? Could be fuel pump not pushing enough fuel.
it basiclly runs sweet as its the best its been ever all new gaskets everywere. i even took the clocks out and checked all the boost pipes in the dash to no avail.. there is a little push when you drive but the boost needle dosnt even budge. drove up the road and all i can say is i must of looked a **** as i had my head hanging out the window listening and it definatley sounds like an owl not a whistle and i think its from drivers side but then again sound travels... bugging :scratch:
Are you running a dump valve? Wastegate stuck open? Take the actuator arm off wastegate pivot and see if it moves on the turbo, could have sheared? Do you have another actuator to try?
Try another turbo on, its definitely not fuel related or minor boost leaks. You would still make boost with a minor leak and ****e fuelling. I bet the turbo has been damaged when the debris went out the exhaust and bent the shaft slightly!?
how do i test the actuator for leaks? i just drove to work and now it sounds different. penny is fine turbines are fine
Attach a foot pump to it and pump away. you should see it move and stay in position after say about 12-15 PSi
Even with a dead acutuator you would still make some boost. If the actuator still feels difficult to pull it will be ok..Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
define some boost? it dosnt feel sluggish but it certainly isnt registering it tries then the noise then little boost gone.:scratch:
You will at least make 5psi unless you have a massive hole in a boost hose, hole in intercooler etc.
So Iv now noticed when I rev it the main water hose is sucking its self flat wtf? Just going to check the actuator then re strip the carb as it sounds drivers side now.. Something sounds like an air noise then suddenly collapses the noise that is all while driving fine as a 1.4.. This 5s got me baffled :scratch:
thats normal for standard water hose. quite a common thread on here lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Sucking flat will be normal when the engine is not upto the top hose stat opening temp so will be closed and no coolant will be going through the top hose as yet, alot of the later model's had coilies in the top hose to stop them squishing down.
Air noise???
When the turbo should come in it sounds like sucking like an owl not a whistle the collapses
Air intake pipe collapsing? Try without air filter.
Iv rebuilt the carb AGAIN today and still no boost I took the intercooller off and stuck my head in and saw the turbine spinning when I revved it and still no boost. Checked the actuator with a pump and it went up and stayed up so I'm guessing that's fine? Could it be the exhaust valves need resetting as its been running a week since the HG was done.. I'm baffled the turbines have no damage at all blades are perfect.. I baffled prob me being para but I'm sure my breaks have gone weak too lol.. It dose have a noise something makes a noise then quickly falls away and I Definatley sounds drivers side.. Would the fuel regulator cause loss of boost? Trouble is I can't see under the bonnet while driving as I'm not that good..
Next thing I'm going todo even though I put a new one on when the head was off is replace the manifold gasket then if it Dosnt work then.. I'm burning it:cry:
One way valve on inlet manifold to brake servo. Really clutching at straws without seeing car!! Could be valve stuck open or pipe split. Does the pedal to hard when you rev it up?
It's just soft really jay..
Can you feel air blowing out anywhere at the back of the engine when you rev it up?
I no this sounds stupid as but when I was a nooob with a t25 I put the one way valve in the actuator pipe. That then made boost once but not again. As the pressure wasnt releasing. Just a thought.
at this point guys nothing sounds stupid.. whats the thing on the back of the exchust inlet? could that be leeking and thats whats loosing boost? it really sounds like a leak but i can only hear it when driving i would say im getting prob 2-3 psi the gauge barley moves.. all ideas welcome!!!!:scratch:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
You mean on the inlet manifold? you have the one way valve for the servo and the one way valve that goes into the breather system, the little one above those is for the AEI line.
If your only getting a few psi of boost it does sound like you have a boost leak matey, check all connection on your boost pipe's also make sure there are no splits in pipe's also check the carb lobster for any split's.
Thanks for the reply mate but Iv changed all boost hoses and 6mm pipes completely and the lobster off another car.. Iv stripped the dash boost hoses it's strange Iv checked everything I can think of stripped everything four times in three days now and it always sounds the same I'm missing something but I don't know what else holds boost? Only other thing I can think is take the inlet manifold off again. But there is no leak when revving looking in the bonnet only when driving Iv took a video of the noise but I can't upload it... It's driving me crazy
Ill say it again the turbo is probably at fault..try another unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
:agree:
call it denial at £580 it had better not be ****ed...:devil:
Here is the news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duKDy...e_gdata_player
So midland turbo want £180 for standard rebuild and no refund.. Today's turning out just sweet.. Anyone want to buy a campus? Cos that's all it's good for at the minute..major :mad:
When you pressurized the actuator what pressure did the arm move at?
Well I don't know I'm afraid I did it with my cycle pump for my road bike the standon type not the little hand ones.. It went up and stayed up untill the pipe blew off the actuator.. I donr have a car pump as such what should I do it upto?? The arm came all the way up if that means anything? It's a -31 I thought they were good? I will see if my next door has one.. It's hard to keep the pipe on as the valve is tiny
What you want to do is see at what pressure the arm starts to move, if its very low then sounds like either actuator needs adjusting or its knackered and not able to hold the wastegate penny closedQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Also check its actually holding the wastegate penny under tension too
Cheers bud I didn't know it needed to be shut.. Proves I know nothing it starts to move at around 5psi the moves out all the way to 40 then holds at 35.. Is that ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
If its moving at 5psi then it sounds like its not holding very well, how much tension is the actuator arm under? Do you have to move it alot to fit it over the arm on the turbine housing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
About 6 mm
Ok cool, maybe try add little bit more tension see if its makes a difference. Shorten it another 1cm and see what it does, if no difference then pressure test it again and see if it opens again at the same pressureQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Muck me mate I had to call on the powers of grey skull to get that back over :) it now moves at 20psi??
Take it for a spin see if you have boost, remember if you have boost back off if the carbs not set for that pressureQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Well matey I got on the dash 3 notches up but it's still making that noise but it Definatley sounds from drivers side.. Would the fuel regulator do this? I'm at a loss it sounds like very tight trapped air not a whistle a horrible noise not metallic it raises then suddenly collapses its strange as I say we have changed all the boost ones with completely different onesQuote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
Check the vacumn pipe from the carb top to the fpr isn't split
Well matey I got on the dash 3 notches up but it's still making that noise but it Definatley sounds from drivers side.. Would the fuel regulator do this? I'm at a loss it sounds like very tight trapped air not a whistle a horrible noise not metallic it raises then suddenly collapses its strange as I say we have changed all the boost ones with completely different ones UuQuote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
The one off the lobster?
Thats the one mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
What would happen if I put the pump on all the pipes to get the psi? Is there like any none return valves I could break? Me blowing down them isnt working..
No need to pressureize the pipe going down the the fpr, just check there are no splits or cracks in itQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
So Iv been on it all day pressurised all pipes even did the potato in the exchaust trick and its Definatley not leaking any were no manifolds no pipes they all check out. So it looks like its Definatley the turbo not bad it only lasted 500 miles bag of **** there's £580 il never see again.. So Iv been watching on you tube how to take them apart Dosnt look that difficult anyone ever done one? Or should I just save and make this the most expensive turbo ever?? Gutted.. :sad: I should of been so far ahead with this five if it hadn't of had a washer dropped in it and a ****e turbo.. I thought I was doing the right things obviously not.. Thanks mark and everyone for your help.. The mrs may leave me but I will get the 5 right!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
Where did you get the turbo from? Don’t take it apart just yet, you might have a warranty with it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
so what killed the turbo? surly it should last longer than it has? will they not rebuild it?
Long story short through blunty his mates had an accident and now no warranty. As stated thanks to all the guys that have helped.. Sorry just a little bit pissed off at the min..Quote:
Originally Posted by Romil Davda
sorry havnt read the whole thread but you may get away with changing one wheel and a housing and saving the core bearings and the other wheel etc...
It all looks physically fine it just Dosnt boost the only thing I notice is the housing with the filter on rotates a little I only noticed that cos I lent on it.. And I'm pretty sure it's not ment todo that..Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
are you sure the housings are tight to the core and youre not letting a leak through there?
I really hate saying this but... get a T2 from eBay, should be around £200 and hope its decent. Put it on and dont run boost over 12psi (some would say more but defeats the object). This gets you on the road and loving your 5 agian.
P.S. I'll have a KTR 180 at the end of the month but i'm pretty sure your not going to wait that long :scratch:
The housing moves filter side but how would it tighten I only see a curclipQuote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
Front housing can spin on circlip back housing are bolted tight do that's ok
Is the comp housing not bolted to the back plate then the back plate clipped in place? If not don't worry it won't be that then.
If the turbo has gone i would look into seeing why its gone, turbo's don't normally just die for now reason
If there is a genuine fault with the turbo then the builder should supply some sort of warrenty but 99% of the time a turbo dies because of something else
As ive previously said turbos generally still produce even when massively screwed, so somthing very obvious will be wrong with it. i'd take the turbo off and check that the shaft turns(inlet hose off first to try to turn it by hand is first easiest step), if it doesnt then maybe part of the washer has jammed the turbo. you'll need to remove the bolts securing the clamps on the turbine housing and remove very carefully. check the turbine for any damage,bent fins from the foreign object.
Take off the exhaust elbow and spin the turbine wheel and make sure the comp wheel is spinning and that the shaft hasn't some how snapped. Comp wheel could be spinning when revved due to the air being sucked in, I guess:scratch:
I'm with this suggestion, should there not be 3 funny shaped washer, brackety things on there?Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
Also have you checked the pipe going to the standard boost guage for leaks?
Guys thanks for all the ideas but believe me Iv checked everything physical thing four times with r5turborons different hoses and intercooller I took the turbo off completely four times felt the shaf it's fine the rear turbine moves a little but I was told when the oil pressure gets to it it stiffened up so I re connected it and it did. Blunty has agreed for me to send it back to BW turbos for investigation.. I can't tell you how much I checked all hoses with an electric pump and all pipes went up to 40psi with no leaks.. My mrs hasn't spoke to me four a week as Iv been on this car searching.. It must be the turbo because Iv personally checked EVERYWERE lol it's drove me mad till early hrs of the morning all week.. Cheers guys
No smoke
No metal noises
No leaks
Only about 2psi coming out the turbo it's bonkers as the actuator holds to 35psi
Cracked exh mani:D
nope had a tata shoved up my pipe no leaks :)
How did you pressurise the system matey? Pump on turbo inlet?
i did for the actuator but not on the turbo can that be done?:scratch:
Baked bean can with a tyre valve glued/wedged in there silicone hose it to the turbo inlet. You can block off just before the lobster to check the boost circuit for leaks, or poss block up the down pipe and test everything.
So there should be a perfect seal back through? You guys know all the tricks something tells me this is a common thing?
As I say my mate had his foot over the exchaust and sealed it that way and the car stalled out with no air leaks what so ever.. I had done my upmost to seal every part with gaskets and paste didn't think off doing the turbo housings so is the turbo a perfect sealed unit then?
Air may be able to escape in some areas but not a lot, you should still be able to pressurise the system if not you have a big boost leak somewhere.
I tested all 6mm pipe with electiric pump and a football valve and all went to 40psi so did the actuator so did the fuel reg valve and pipe work and I did all the dash boost hosses they all went to 40psi the carb was fine no leaks the boost hoses and intercooller was all changed with a known working car off r5turborons car so it's none of them.. I really dont want it to be the turbo I hope it comes back good. But Iv sealed Iv checked Iv done everything possible I think :-) not tried pressuring the turbo the bake been can is one I will be trying this weekend at some point.. Crazy idea but if it works :agree:
Put a pic of your bay on. lets see whats going on.
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...r_jmedia_share
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
By no means is it show material but it worked just fine
Cant see anything blocking the exhaust elbow that should be there when cup mod is performed. Might just be pic :confused:
The dude before me had a wheel nut in there so I cut it flat it is there but flushed off.
I think your problem is you have got aei feed from base of carb and feed from middle of carb to actuator mixed up! Your pics looks like your connecting aei to carb middle outlet and actuator to the outlet at the base of the carb above the breathers.
Cheers bid but Iv tried both ways and makes no difference.. My pal off here has offerd me a recond t2 so I'm going back to reliable.. And get this checked out..
I did wonder why it is if you take off the pipe from the bottom of the car it runs poorly but if you take the top one off nothing happens? I also thought did I drill to deep when taking the second stage up a notch.. So Sunday I'm changing to a t2 first and see were I am from there.. I have a video of the noise but can't upload it.. As I don't have a pc just an iPhone..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5
yep, that is a one way trip to fails-ville.
the actuator port needs to goto the carb top. -not under the throttle plate.
Wont doing it the "wrong way" be feeding the aei unit a fuel/air mixture?
Hey guys I only put it that way to try two days ago and Iv left it in the garage since it hasn't been that way.. I was just trying everything.. It's Definatley not that and before I drive it I will change it back..
is it just me or does it look like the wastegate is open:scratch: how much preload is on there?
easy way to see. unhook the actuator and use some wire to put tension on the wastegate arm - then take the car for a run - be careful as it comes on boost tho!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
It's well an truly slammed **** mate yesterday Marky mark had me wind it in another cm and it took all my super human strength to get the actuator arm on and still no difference. Well about 1psi it raises to about 3psi on boost then collapses yet the actuator Dosnt start moving until 20psi.. :scratch:
Checked the seal on the compressor housing dv blanking plate?
Sorry if already said just had a skim read and look at your pics!!
Yes bud all tight and no difference..
none of your pics seem to work for me dude?
I can only do them off my iPhone matey i don't have a pc
When you're posting pics cut and paste the image address into your post then the pics automatically load. I use the Photobucket app for the i phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
I wanted to share something on Photobucket with you!
http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
See the fullsize version at: http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
Sent from my iPhone
they all fail for me dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_clioGTT
photobucket links do for me too even when im logged in ??
oh bugger :scratch: it all looks ok to me im whipping the turbo off tomorrow and i will try to pressurise it as described earlier.. going to put a t2 back on now which member r5turbron has kindly sold me im bord of all the hassles :sad2: iv got a contact now in midland turbo so going to get it checked out when i can afford it. iv realised i need to spend some family time for a while now this 5 has taken over my life and cost me way too much.. im not defeated just going to leave it out for a bit :) im getting the hints from the mrs its time for number two baby so its time to get in on :hump: :) thanks for all your help guys all of you..
Mate your actuator vacum pipe and the aei line are connected the wrong way around on the carb
http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/...1/715edac7.jpg
Already discussed above mate :)
:ashamed::laugh: to much to go through on phoneQuote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5
the last question is why dose nothing happen from the carb top pipe you see in the pick? or dose it just happen when driving? i thought there would be air flow through it or a sucking but nothing happens when the pipe is disconnected from the carb? is that right?:scratch:
the turbo will only spin up when top carb elbow is connected the revs make turbo spin.
It will only suck from below the throttle position and it will only blow up there when on boost. This does not help you.:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Walker
me too, but..... in the address bar delete everything after 'Walkingboots01', then you can see his whole album.
Quick one guys I'm fitting a t2 back on the 5 but the standard oil feed pipe now Dosnt fit is the phase one t2 different to phase two? If so what adapter threads do I need?? Cheers
Yes. Phase 2 turbos are water cooled but not the phase 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
I have a t2 that's been fully recond it has oil and water feeds just like my old t2 they fit fine but the oil feed threads are different.. Any ideas on the threads? Just so I can go to pirtec and get a fitment for my standard phase 2 oil pipe..
Anyone :scratch: I don't even know the size of the standard oil feed threads.. Or should I take it all off again and take it all with me to pirtec..
7/16 to 24tpi? Or 1/2 to 20? :scratch:
I noticed you said earlier up the thread that you can move the compressor housing on the turbo, this shouldn't move! They have a rubber o ring, its possible that this could have broken...
Also go over all your main boost pipes, check for splits or of you can change them with known good ones..
O n take your air filter off and try that, air filter could well of shat itself inside..
Cheers Dave.. Oh I know now it's the t25 at fault the bearing has cal lapsed by the looks of it and your right I thought it shouldn't move at all aswell.. It's going back on warranty to BW turbos this week.. Things didn't seem right from the start with this turbo.. See what they do for me and I will report back.. As for the t2 I will just take it all to pirtec and get a pipe made
So pirtec is shut today.. Lol after just waking up the guy...(should put opening times on the website) were else could I get a conector from I don't need a pipe making just the threaded adaptor.. Must be somewere? :scratch:
So put a t2 back on today and it's running sweet again thanks to r5turboron for selling me his turbo.. Toplad :) quick one though.. The cup mod is it the pipe nearest the bonnet or the other? We have boost again only running 14 now I want this one to last a little longer..
If you doing it normal 'cup-mod' way put it on port nearest the front of the car but it has been know to use just the rear port on its own before ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Cheers mark the thing is I just put it on the back one of the actuator and it read 1.5 bar and went of the scale on my dash turbo gauge so I was thinking that must be wrong.. Or the guy before was a loon :eek:
Yeah if you stick it to the back port it will run a fair bit of boost mate! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
as mark says its the one nearest the front of the car mate, watch ya dont det again 1.5bar lol if carbs not setup correct
I had forgot as the last one only had one port :) cheers guys Can't tell you how nice a bit of boost feels after cycling for two weeks :)
sorry forgot to ask heard anything on bluntys turbo we had one just before you mate, it seems ok at mo thanx mick
Carbs now running in 12s on boost but I will have to change my main again it's a little rich on idle..
Sending bluntys back tomorrow wanted to make sure it was that first I think the bearings call lapsed but will report back ASAP..
thanx sir ok boss good luck wiv this one
Glad your boosting again mate
Ok update on the turbo.. It's fixed thanks to bluntys bud apparently the shaft was bent.. But whatever it's on it's way back just in time for ND :) again its been great service from BW turbos. Let's see how long it lasts this time as I plan on having my first track experience very soon..
How did the shaft bend?
from what i gather something had gone through the turbo and knocked it out of balance
Contaminated oil then? Or did it go through front?Quote:
Originally Posted by BluntyR5GTT
drop paul a pm mark im not sure he want to discuss what could of been the cause on the boards
Thats cool mate, was just curious thats all ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BluntyR5GTT
I don't mind saying on here apparently there was swarf found in there and the only thing I can gather is it came from the washer I found in piston for after the carb rebuild which lead to the head off skimmed and machined and to top it off the turbo being boolaxed.. But as I said to blunty the only positives are I can now strip the 5 with my eyes shut it may not be pritty it may not be the best but it works and it's quick enough for me.. Iv had a pritty hard start to owning a 5 again but were all good now thanks to a cracking few members Iv met off here and some great advice off great guys I hope to meet soon at blyton.. Track time next :)
Told you it was the turbo :cooter:
:worship: I know I know I was a newbie.. Expensive lesson learnt.. Never had this before and I just didn't want to believe it was that.. Note to self listen to the voice of experience.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
Sh1ite!!! So finally got round to polishing the 5 and it seems it's been sun scorched with all the dam rain we have been having.. Is it a case of cracking the Tcut out? The auto Glyms not touching it.. Dam red fives lol
Worth it once its done tho mate! Cant beat a polished up red car :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
See you in ten hrs then lol rub a dub dub!!
Before I had my 5 painted mate my car was very faded and I found the best thing to bring it back for a few week or so was murr or turtle wax mate
Well Iv nearly done it once with Tcut but still not happy so it's round two I think. It's coming up well but since it's blyton soon I might aswell give it a good rubbing my neighbours think I'm barmy as its pissing down outside "why you washing your car nutter " I am in the garage thoe. The white wheels are getting on my t1ts aswell.. Still it's nice to be polishing it for once and not fixing it :)
dont use t cut fella there is much better stuff on the market nowadays, leave it with me and ill get you a list of a few decent polishes :)
Lol cheers bud but it's all done :) two tcuts two auto Glyms and two coats of extra gloss polish... It was a Xmas gift off the mrs.. Came up well I think
http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/...1/0e8b7227.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
edited for you pal, copy and paste the image link ;)
Looks lovely mate well done :agree:
You think you've had a hard start to 5 ownership, i've owned mine for 2 years and never had a proper drive in it. The day I bought mine it went bang
Started to get it sorted the last few months though so hopefully i'll be able to experience some C1J boost sometime....!
Well that's me pissed off yet again.. Fitted the t25 on went for a drive and it now smokes on after run.. Very light oil smell I think it just wasn't ment to be for me I give up with the dam thing :cry: trackday at blyton IS OFF.. Gutted
Just fit the T2 job done
What's the going rate for a fully rebuilt t25 tomcat with new -31 actuator but it smokes I paid £580 I know I'm not going to get that must only need a seal
Dont be a big girl :D fit the T2 back on and bring it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by R5TURBORON
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthrea...666#post281666
Oh I'm still coming just not on track ha to big girl :) I'm out of time I'm on 12hr shifts all week and at night the mrs says "it's me or the car" and the mrs smokes it better than the car..
strange no smoke out the turbo this morning :) but now it seems i have a knocking could it be the wheelbearing if so how easy is it to fit? do i need a press or just **** them out?
alot easier with a press, getting the inner race off the stub axle will be your most dificult part. easiest to take the hub off and get a local garage to swap it, take them two mins and you all day :D
sometimes turbos need a bit of bedding in, my dads turbo on his hi lux used to smoke like a trooper so i took the inlet off and checked it for play there was quite a bit but i must of disturbed the seals because after wiggling it its never smoked since lol. and thats on 150,000 miles.
so sorted the bearing so thats all good.. now the t25 is a little smokey on over run oil smoke that is. running 18psi boosts fine do you think it will be ok? or should i not boost it?
so iv been looking on midland turbos website to why my t25 could be smoking and it says " could be because i used gasget sealer on my oil drian gasket? why would that make it smoke? but i did use it so i guess it could be that? i took the filter off and its dry then i took the inter cooler pipe off and thats dry. so maybe it could be the oil drian backing up? anyone had the same? for £1.99 i think i will get another gasket and see what happens:scratch:
Well Iv changed the oil drain gasket AGAIN and it still smokes.. Sod it the dam things staying like it till the weekends over and then it's off to midland turbo with to be reconditioned for the third time.. Not impressed. :devil: don't think I will do this trackday now.
Whack the t2 on for blyton, 1bar of boost job done
i had 3 cylinders at mallory last year and still had a great time, You dont need the turbo to have fun on the bendy bits :D just dont brake :D
Will see how much I can get done Friday it's going tO be a very late one As I'm baby sitting straight from work to the wench gets back..
It boosts fine bud it just smokes on overrunQuote:
Originally Posted by Tony Walker
Don't worry about it just take oil
take some oil and bring the T2 as well, if it gets worse on the track, we'll all muck in and help you swap the turbo over, its not a big job and you'll only loose and hour or so of track time if that sorting it :agree: :smokin:
I'm liking the RTOC spirit in this thread! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops
:cool:
when I said 'we' I meant Ron :p ;)
Thanks guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Coops
I will bring the t2 aswell just in case it will mean just water water journal changing off the t25 then were good to go again.. Well Iv been pasting it for a couple of days now and it just seems the same just smokes on over run so I guess I will have to make sure I just keep the turbo in :laugh: all day..
Changing the antiroll bar bushes today but Renault say they don't do the inner ones any more? Should surely just be the outer ones that knacker up anyway? I'm not changing them cos there knackerd I'm just fussy and want new :) hope the weather cools down for these 5s my fans in and out all day today.
Iv done it that much I can doit with my eyes shut bud but thanks arons always helping me I will let him burn his hands :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops