ive scraped the cash together to get me an alloy intercooler, am i best getting the double for the extra money or will the single be ok for relativly mild modifications?
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ive scraped the cash together to get me an alloy intercooler, am i best getting the double for the extra money or will the single be ok for relativly mild modifications?
I carried out a 'test' of various intercoolers a good few years back. To cut a long story short, GT Tuning's double capacity intercooler came out as the most efficient at reducing charge temp's.
Saying that, the o.e intercooler fairs well upto mediocre levels of boost.
olly what money you talking? go the whole hog and geta fmic saves you doing it later. or go double.
ive been told mines 14psi , im just frightened i pop it,when i put my foot down, so for peace of mind im going to invest in analloy one, gt tuning u say, great ill invest,are they simmillar price to the forge? not too cheap!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross99
which would u recommend ,i only want to buy this thing once:)
If your not upping the boost more, just buy a single core alloy job. No point in going fmic unless you want to up the power a lot.
Personally id just strap & flap the original intercooler, take about 30 mins tops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
im hoping to gain experience an gradually modify the car so in the future so i dont want to out grow any purchase i make now. i just want to try and make it bullet proof so i dont blow the car when im hoofing it occasionally
It will be fine as it is, you worry too much mate!
Bring it down mine at some point, ill strap/flap the intercooler if you like, cheap & reliable mod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
:laugh::laugh:i am a worrier,because im so limited in knowledge at the moment , if it goes t1ts up at the side of the road ,ill be f***ked.
Get decent breakdown cover if you haven't already, a must for these cars sometimes:scared:
For that level of boost/power, I'd personally mod' the standard intercooler by removing the thermostat & gubbins, divert the air full-time through the core, seal it back up, and run it thus so.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyhock
If you're gonna up the boost later down the line (>20psi), then maybe consider an alloy job.
If you're planning on ultimately running high power, then a front mount intercooler is best...or a charge-cooler.
if i throw some money at it mate will you fit it and charge it up as a job, id be happy to pay you to do it and know its done right. it is the money i had sidelined for some turbs but im having no luck getting themat the minQuote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyhock
dont worry, if you blow the intercooler apart the car is still driveable. it just wont get past 80mph, and it gets there very very slowly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkie
cheers,thats reasurring.at the minute ive been driving my car like a tw*t, and then thrashing my wifes colt turbo:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyhock
on a off road race way i hope , watch what you say, you dont know whos watching ;)
if you want it done right everything has to be up to sratch ;)
oh yeah always on an off road race track, what you think id do it on public roads?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by dave j gtt
just checked this morning, the intercooler has already been strapped, so it may be ok then, im itching to spend some cash on the car and improve it, any suggestions?
Since its working fine invest on peripherals such as suspension,tyres,brakes,silicone hoses,etc so when it's time for serious power you will have a car that'll be able to manage the extra power and be more reliable.Moreover most of these things are D.I.Y and you'll get to know your car better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyhock
Suspension and brakes maybe?
:laugh: great minds . . . . . . . . . .:DQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueFish5Gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFish5Gt
good thought , ill do that,the kits of about 14 samco hoses go for about 250-300 on ebay is this about rightas i can use buy it now and get them changed all in one go
Personally, id spend that money on the suspension first fella. At least you 'feel' some improvements for your money. Depends what you want though?Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyhock
little bit of chat about it here.
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthrea...ght=suspension
alot of people lower the rear torsion bar
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=458
and change the front springs for -30/-50mm. much cheaper option to improve the handling. Theres plenty of people on here who will be able to let you know what they believe is best.
looking at cars with samco hoses, seen this one on ebay, is the dump valve in the right place?
http://i15.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/10/c3/f283_1.JPG
a lot of people on here seem to rate koniQuote:
Originally Posted by tonesGTT
I put KONI adjustables on mine!! They are Greeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt!!!:D
if u still wanted alloy intercooler my mate has got a pace single core sittin there.. plus not only being able to hold more boost without poppin it will also reduce charge temps a bit aswell.. :)
Ill doubt a pace single core interwarmer will reduce charge temps at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by samb5
Olly do the suspension/brakes first, wouldn't bother with the silicone hoses you wont see any performance benefits, all yours looked to be in good nick anyway.
Get some koni yellows on it, torsion bar reset. Set of mintex 1144 or ferodo ds2500 pads up front & your away.
fitted a double capacity alloy cooler to my 11 on saturday mornin and with out alterin the boost it seems to run a whole lot better :D
might be that the old cooler was leaking but if it was it wasn't lettin much go just seems to come on boost a lot better and harder as well
but i gonna be doin me torrsion bar next weekend as well as already dropped the front by 25mm the handling is much better........................:rolleyes::rolleyes:
now just need to get to and do the back :coffee::coffee::coffee:
i personally rate the pace single core cooler an tests have proved it to be more efficient than standard.. also the strenth so ul never have to worry about it blowin apart.. :) also i agree get suspension done as itll let u enjoy ur power more lol ;)
Iirc when mart tested all the std intercoolers back to back on trusty with a decent act gauge the single alloy pace intercooler was no more efficient than the std cooler. The only one that was worth a look was the gt tuning double capacity cooler;)
Fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by samb5
i still beleive it to be a better unit even if its only to stop it blowing apart.. :)
I prefer believing my own findings, as opposed to sales shpiel bollox found in 'lax power' esque magazines :)
many people use these with good results.. these are big companies that obviosly test then manufacture there product an invest in there products research.. so if there findings an a club member with some home testing/findings tend to differ then who knos, u must both be on different pages lol :)
All you need is a test site, and Charge temp reader, and a nice selection of intercoolers, believe mart had all this and a track to rag his car around. I remember reading that the standard one was good. but as everyone else has said depends on what PSI you are wanting to run.
This is probably the best one that you can fit in the standard position................
http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o...tercoolers.jpg
If you decide to get a front mount cooler, you can have both together, just pipe them both in. That way you havent lost money buying the above. :)
Keep in mind that a strapped and flowed standard cooler will take a good 24 psi!!
Best to spend the money on suspension and brakes though, i would love some Koni yellows !:smokin:
Koni'sare OrderedQuote:
Originally Posted by ganjaman
:laugh: loving your immediate work ollyhock! What shall we tell him to buy next lol!?! Your car looks like a tidy standard example? Dont go abusing it too much ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonesgtt
Im Concsious That Its 17 Years Old And Totally Original, So All I Want To Do Is Alter The Suspension, Put On Some Colour Coded Turbines,when I Sourse Them And Make Engine Improvements,
Thenthe Carshould Look The Dogs And Ill Have Not *******ised It, Dont Worry It Aint Going To Be An Ali G Gtt
Sorry For Upper Caseimnot Shouiting, Must Have Hit Caps Lock
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
[quote=GanJaMan;12805]This is probably the best one that you can fit in the standard position................
http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o...tercoolers.jpg
If you decide to get a front mount cooler, you can have both together, just pipe them both in. That way you havent lost money buying the above. :)
Keep in mind that a strapped and flowed standard cooler will take a good 24 psi!!
I think the advise on here is getting worse!! It wont take 24psi and if it did it would not cool efficiently.
Why would you pipe a front mount and a std cooler together?? For a start you looking at filling 2 volumes.
:sad2:Quote:
Originally Posted by samb5
We already know the 'tests' comment is baseless and at the pressures a pace intercooler could withstand over and above a strapped OE cooler, you'd have blown something else in the engine long before.
It's a complete waste of money save for the bling aspect.
The difference being, is that I say it as it is and have nothing to gain from bullsh1tting people; never have, never will, nor am I trying to sell them something in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by samb5
If you believe that everything you buy is exactly what it says on the tin, then that's your opinion & prerogative. However, as you'll hopefully find out yourself over time, all is not what it's sometimes cracked up to be in the gtt engine tuning game.
Maybe try taking some measurements of your intercooler yourself. You might be surprised with your findings.
If you can't be bothered to do that, perhaps take note from those that have many many years experience of gtt's & the after-market products available for them, instead of trying to belittle said people with facts you can't substantiate.
As above...
And Sam, you make it out as if the companies making these tuning parts are making the highest quality parts, with F1 engineering precision, and have poured millions into research, which quite frankly, just isn't the case.
it is indeed a bit naive to believe that tuning companies know best. I assure you they frequently don't.
anyone for a gt-tuning dump valve?
mi erd it dubalz da boozt
ill vouch for that, i bought the motor induction thing and apparently its pants, i was taken in by the bullsh1t :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart
never mind though if i take the motor off ive got an air filter for a ££££100 pounds:cry::cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyhock
Olly, we've all been there before mate (well, maybe not with the supercharger air-filter thingy though ;) :D ). You're not the first person to be sucked in by sales shpiel, and you defo won't be the last.
The great thing with this club though, is that if you ask & take in the advice given, you'll save hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds when it comes to tuning your motor.
I wasnt suggesting that he actually run the standard cooler at this boost level, but i admit the advise was wrong :(.Quote:
Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning
I have driven a GTT with both a front mount intercooler and double cap intercooler piped in running a T25 at just under 25psi. Full boost was around 3800 rpm and the car performed very well.
o well.. i prefer the pace product over standard.. but thats just my opinion.. :) i dont beleive of wot companies say just some lol..
your advice is deeply appreciated, even when it hurts;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart
:cool:
Btw, don't take it to heart if you think someone is having a pop at you. Defo not the case whatsoever; just merely a bit of rtoc/boards banter (borderline sarcasm :D ), which I'm sure you'll realise & appreciate once you've posted on here after a while, been to some of the events, met some of us in person, etc etc.
It's all good :beer::)
Yep.. I expected Mart to start ripping into me when I met him at ND. Oh wait.. What was it you were saying about my online name again!? :scared::cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart
You got off lightly 'brick' ;)
Ask Tricky about the first time we met at an event :D
What happened? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mart
Hmm i sensing some gay love........:laugh::hump:;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart
He did have a look of desire in his eyes, when he saw me :scared:
Man , you too, he told me that the curls in my hair were nice........:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by BriC
:laugh:
On a serious note.. Do you remember meeting me Jesus? We spoke whilst I was doing the BBQ..
I sure do bud, i was told by your mates your an alki`....:laugh:, i had the look of desire too......:laugh::eek:;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BriC
Sorry , course i do, damn fine chap too if i remeber right....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by BriC
:D
How was it we started chatting.. Were you just walking about? I wasn't drunk or anything, just really can't remember :confused:
walking...hugh, i glide, being the holy one an all....:laugh:, i just stumbled along on a mission to meet an greet.....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by BriC
Random question and probably an obv answer. Does it matter where you put your intercooler? Like on a cossie one people tend to have it on the lower grill thing on the bumper or on the grill. Would it matter if you had it at like an angle going down the side of the rad? Am i right in thinking it dont matter where it is aslong as a good amount of air gets to it and its not a massive circuit?
As long as it fits, it is getting a good supply of cool air, and the pipework isn't too restrictive, then yeh - anywhere is good. But obviously 'anywhere' won't necessarily get you all of the aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by Grunge
splitfire spark splitter....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart
fuel cat/broquet....
;)
Exactly, although I didn't get sucked in by the fuel cat cr8p. As for the spark splitter though... :sad2: :D
what now ur telling me spark splitters are no good?:D:D:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sparkie
yeah i cut one up. two wood screws, two ferrous washers and two aluminum washers, all housed in two black plastic cups.....
I was going to buy the pipes and fit a cossie 2wd cooler instead of using my strapped O/E jobbie. I'm running 14-15psi. Is there any benifit or point in doing this? After reading this I think not. :crap:
If you're mounting it at the front, I believe plenty of other members have done this and indeed endorse the mod Sy. I don't think there have been any back to back comparison tests conducted on it though.
Working out the volume difference between standard and Cossie 2wd coolers might provide you with some help.
There used to be a brilliant intercooler article on the old site. Has the data been saved and xferred here?
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Are K-Tec's grill mounts any good? they look ideal.
Ideal for the bin...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevhib
I did read the article on the coolers and remember the standard and cossie2wd being the same volume. I'm just thinking air flow. Surley its better to have air going in one end and out the other rather than in and out the same end...:confused:
As per the intercooler article on the old rtoc website...
The standard 5GTT core and it's standard replacements are 200mm x 200m x various mm thicknesses with a U bend half way. Straightened out this standard shape equates to:
400mm wide x 100mm high x 80mm thick = 5GTT standard cooler core, phase one or two.
400mm wide x 100mm high x 80mm thick = Pace standard replacement.
400mm wide x 100mm high x 110mm thick = K-tec or Forge standard replacement.(ô)
400mm wide x 100mm high x 130mm thick = GTTuning 'Double Capacity' standard replacement.(ô)
400mm wide x 100mm high x 96mm = 2wd Cossie cooler core dimensions.
460mm wide x 115mm high x 120mm = 4x4 Cossie cooler core dimensions.
500mm x 165mm x 60mm think = Forge FMINT104.(ô)
495mm x 180mm x 60mm think = Forge kit for 5GTT.(ô) (I'm told this size by an owner)
above are all core sizes.
(ô) I think I am correct in stating that these all use the Alutech extruded duct with the fins glued on.
The standard replacements mainly have the same number of ducts, 14. I have seen one with a turbo Technics sticker on it with 12 ducts for charge air. It was also about 100mm thick.
The cross sectional area of the ducts varies from make to make and this has a direct bearing on flow resistance, as well as cooling ability.
NOTE: NONE of them are double capacity
The standard coolers are both 80mm thick and twin cored.
The Pace 'double capacity' cooler is 80mm thick and twin cored.
The K-tec / forge 'double capacity' cooler is 110mm thick and twin cored (≈35% extra).
The GT Tuning 'double capacity' cooler is 130mm thick and twin cored (≈63% extra).
As far as ducting cross sectional area goes though the ≈ % extra I mentioned has some variables. On some the weld partly obscures all the duct inlets and exits so reducing area, but some have longer duct area front to back so that increases area. Reports are that the K-tec / forge work a bit better than the Pace. The main advantage of the GTTuning one might be it's reduction in charge air flow resistance due to the extra duct cross sectional area.
Cross sectional area of coolers end, for what that's worth:
Standard 80cm2
2WD Cossie 100cm2
Forge kit 108cm2
Cross sectional area of coolers front:
Standard 400cm2
2WD Cossie 400cm2
Forge kit 891cm2
Volume
Standard 3200cm3
2WD Cossie 4000cm3
Forge kit 5346cm3
The early Escort cooler is a bit odd looking as it has a small air/water cooler (charge cooler) at one end of the air/air intercooler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart
Well done Mart. So the Cossie is bigger. So is it a worth while Mod?
That data needs to be rejigged and put into the articles section....
That's three recent suggestions now and I'm not seeing any feedback :crap:
Sy. You're unlikely to get an absolute answer mate. Given mine and Mart's posts and if you already have the cooler then get on and fit it. Whether you see a perceptible improvement or not may depend on your boost level and whether your GTT is fuelled right. My advice is - go for it and find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkie
Great bit of kit based on a plastic bosch item with some added shiny bits, ill have two please sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevhib
:agree: