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Well i've just been to Kenobi's to have a nose at the volvo B18ft setup. Im liking it :D
Questions.
What sort of power can you espect to get from one of these engines on stock setup?
ie. T2 running at 14/15 psi with a scoff modified efi box and say and front mount intercooler??
Seriously thinking about doing this conversion as its looks like a piece of cake compaired to my last conversion :)
120bhp stockQuote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac trasher - Nick
150bhp mbc
170bhp with a richmod
not sure on the scoff mod but i know the little t2s run out of puff pritty quick
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
mbc ???Quote:
Originally Posted by reevio
richmod ???
:confused:
Thats me above :) On the wrong profile :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tor
18 psi on a t2 t25, na cam, thats what im going to be running, have been told should be pushing 180bhp
i have a 460 turbo auto which i use as my daily runner.
everything is std, id just like to know...
whats the max psi the t2 turbo can take? id like to run 14psi.
at what point would injectors need to be uprated? and what injectors would be suggested to use?
what does scoffs ecu do? does it remove the boost limit or..?
im basically looking for the cheapest way to make it a little quicker.
From what i have read 15 psi is about the max the injectors can do before they are max'ed out. Scoff box so i understand removes the boost limit's :D and there are other more capacity injectors you can fit so your boost can then increase again :cool:
4 psi 120bhp std, 7psi ?? on latest models
8-10psi limit before ecu needs moddin as it starts to retard ignition til it cuts spark, done once and suitable for over 20psi
14-15 limit on std injectors, approx 170bhp
e or ep cam and t25/t28 std 14psi appox 195bhp
above on green 740t injectors on std reg fuel are ok to bout 20 psi, 740t resistor pack also needed or will blow ecu outputs. requires mods to air intake. approx 210bhp
above on red saab injectors on std fuel reg are fine to above 25psi (my engine dets then, some have at 21psi so always best to check) above 23psi makes no more power due to cam. approx 230bhp
If the 5GTT C1J makes about 230bhp at about 23psi and is a 1.4 litre, then shouldn't the 1.7 litre make about 20% more? = 276bhp.
Plus the 1.7 is injected so doesn't have the 32mm (25mm) restriction in the way.
but it has low comp pistons so dosnt this mean you need to run more boost to get the power? And (im hoping) these engines can run that all day reliably not like (in my experience) the c1j!!!:D
funk knows ian, just given some figures i'vs seen as a rough guide. the std throttle is 42mm i think, with mine using the 2Ltr 50mm i think. in theory yeah it should, but as far as i'm awar the e and ep cam are equivelant to a 262 cam, nothin near like a 285 used on most high power c1j's. plus the 230bhp estimate was when the std rev limiter was in place operating at 6200. with aftermarket ecu's with a rev limit around 7500 and an improved cam then i'd hope for around that figure. i'd say the budget from scratch is cheaper to do with a volvo conversion, with a more robust engine is a vast improvement
could piper not be interested in making a batch of 285 cams for the rtoc guys who own b18ft engined cars ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluntyR5GTT
good idea :)
Thats gunna be a "get ya cash on the table " type of deal.
I'de suggest getting your names down if you would be interested in that cam.
1.Kenobi.
Obtainable power has nothing much to do with CC's Ian, its about what you can squeeze through the cylinder head. The cam in the volvo is god awfull at making HP, the E type cam is a little better but not a lot. Torque at low rpm's is much better than the 1.4 though. The head itself atleast looks OK to me but I don't know of any flow testing that has taken place to back that up. Markey mark has had a custom cam made to a profile that I drempt up once, or maybe he's varied it slightly but it'll be interesting to see how his works over standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian S
We are all waiting to see what can actualy be acheived from these engines via markey Mark. Come on mark, we've been waitng ages for you! :laugh::cooter:
i acheived 233.3 bhp from mine
17~18 psi was fluctuating a bit
saab reds
e or ep cam i cnt remember tbh
dta management
rev limit of 6500
ubber sized front mount charge temps at 22 degres
i still think theres more to be had from it, new engine going together soon with forge pistons an 1mm over bore.
head will be opened up a tad but to know where near what marks had done
Scoff - With the head work i've had done i'm going to get it flow tested to see what its like, i also have a standard one here too so can do a comparison of the 2 and see if the work was worth it.
The cam is as you dreamt up mate although i'm having it measured to make sure its been machined to the spec, i'll give it ago with that one for the meantime but then can always have anew one machined if feel the need to improve on it.
Trix - Yes yes, i know! ;) It may be slow progress but its being done, you lot are eager to see it go think how i feel! :laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluntyR5GTT
At the mo they dont make one but i had my stock cam re-proflied to the 285 and cost me £140+vat
Would the profile of the 285 for the C1J work well with the B18FT? Being a different engine it may not perform exactly the same, be interesting to find out though.Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze
Mine was about the same price to have it reground but obviously a one-off spec.
one-off spec but im sure they would keep a record of the profile to use if needed againQuote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
Don't think they did mate, its a spec Scoff come up with not them.Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze
What turbo are you using Dave?Quote:
Originally Posted by dave r5
a t28 mate
im not a turbo man but the numbers say
comp housing a/r 60
exh housing .69
duno what any of that means tho :)
What's peoples opinions on the Volvo engine compared to the c1j?
Don't c1js usually do a better 1/4 mile?
Cool, just wondered what spec items you were running to get that figure. Might have to pop down to have a look at the Volvo setupQuote:
Originally Posted by dave r5
help yr self mate every 1s welcome to my wrk shop lol
At the moment the C1J's are performing better but only due to the fact the volvo lump hasn't been developed much i:e not had huge time and money spent on it to squeeze power out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by benj88
Next year all will change though (i hope!) :D
im agreeing mark:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
chop chop :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
same here guys, if it ever starts up :)
Nice one mate, I just assumed the Volvo engine would already perform better but like you say things may change!Quote:
Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)
hi in holland runs a volvo 480 turbo with 325 HP and 435 NM @ 1.8 bar
runs with bigmod ecu , 465 cc injectors, 17 degree ca, bleu printed
will translate the whole text from dutch to english
Engine:
origineel 95 1.8t blok 1100km!!
gebalanceerd vliegwiel/ krukas
gewogen drijfstangen
gewogen zuigers
geharde zuigerkoppen (alucarbonatie +/- 45 hrc meer)
scherper nokkenas 17graden
aangepaste koppakking en kopbouten
aangepaste distributieriem met spanner en omlooprol
geflowde kop
geflowd inlaatspruitstuk
aangepaste gasklep
aangepast uitlaatspruitstuk / geflowd / passend gemakt voor garrett T3 turbo
aangepaste garrett T3 / 7graden compressor wiel / gebalanceerd turbine wiel
interne waste gate geflowd
red-top injectoren 465cc
aangepast inlaat traject 2,5" elbows
Richard Pruen BIG mod ecu modificatie / instelbaar 1,2 - 1,8 bar on the fly
aangepaste luchtmassameter
aangepaste exteren druksensor (3bar map sensor)
originele groep A versnellingsbak (geen type nr / gemaakt 1900?!)
aangepaste drukgroep / 3 pads koppelingsplaat
3 extra motordempers
aangepaste versnellingsbaksteun (oude stijl massief rubberblok)
aangepaste stabilisatie stangen voor en achter
so there is enough power if you tweak a bit here and there :D
any updates on this peeps?
Hello, ive got a b18ft in my 5 gtx and is fairly stock.
List of mods.
- Scoff mod
- Standard injectors
- 13 psi (standard T2)
- GTX camshaft
- BMC inline filter with ram pipe
- Big FMIC
- 2.5 intercooler pipes
- manual boost controller
- 2" straight through pipe
- ap paddle clutch
Basically just add ons, but had to mess around with fueling to get it running right. Dont know what kind of power its running but i can say its neck and neck with my mates 210bhp cupra and it out runs my cousins 200bhp G60, this is with wheel spin in 1st 2nd and 3rd in the dry. With 15s and good tyres it should be fun:).
How do you find the GTX cam in the Volvo engine mate, don't think i've seen anyone use one of those beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by gordini singh
Its made a huge difference compared to the standard b18ft cam. T2 use to die out quite quick through the rev range before, but now with the gtx cam it pulls hard right to the rev limit, i feels likes its got a bigger turbo. I have no clue on how it compares to the b18e and b18ep cam, but its the best mod ive done so far, plus it didnt cost me nothing so its all good:). It did cause a few fueling issues at first with the gtx cam but Haz helped me sort it, now its running sweet.
Ever since i put the cam in the gtx dont stop wheel spinning, thats its only flaw:).
Thats interesting to know, be good to compare the GTX cam with the other Volvo cams commonly used.Quote:
Originally Posted by gordini singh
you still thinking of seeing what those prima turbo conversions can do markey?:D
If one come up i may have a play with it but to be honest in no rush to get one, i'm more interested in the Volvo lump as a whole at the moment i got a spare engine which i may put in the campus over winterQuote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
is the volvo engine used a turbo'd version of the renault 8v engine found in mk1 lagunas and things??
:ashamed:
think they only came with 1.6 1.8 2l etc... but no 1.7 didnt they?:confused: so unless its one of the 1.6/1.8/2l N/A with a turbo chucked on for good measure i guess not.:scratch:
iv been looking at one or two of the volvo lumps and it seems to be the same as the old renault 1.8 engine??
not sure about the internals tho :confused:
i no some of the old volvo's used to use that engine but wondered if the volvo turbo bits would fit the renault engines:scratch:
A friend of mine is building a stroked one of these engines to make it 2 liter. Should be quite interesting once built and mapped.
First post!
Hello Guys
I have one question a few months ago i start my project. R5 gtt with b18ft engine. This what i want to buy for my car is: Garrett t3 or turbo from Mitsubishi evo 4 or evo 6 also 440cc injectors, different camshaft from r19 the 107bhp version, mega squirt v2.2. And the boost to be arround 17psi or 20psi. And maybe custom header exhaust. Do you know how much power i will have?
Thanks a lot
Cheers
im guessing around 200bhp+ compared to the specs of other b18ft r5s on here, dont think anyone has used a t3 on here.
I'll let you know how my one run's hopefully in the next week or so think mine uses a prima spec cam (so thats probly a gtx cam)Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
i dont mind taking anyone for a spin to see what it feels like at one of the meets or something, that might be early next year though.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Thank you guys. Okey with this spec on what pressure i can reach arround 250 bhp? Or give me advise what parts to put to reach arround 250 bhp?
Thank you :)
mine will be going on the rollers early next year, im guessing 180bhp, would love close to 200bhp but turbo will not blow that hard :)
T2 soon to be running 16psi
Rebuilt bottom end
flywheel lightened and balanced
piper 279 camshaft with reground valves and valve seals
t5 orange injectors
ported and polished head
ported inlet manifold
ported exhaust manifold
Large front mount intercooler 2.5inch pipe work
b18ep throttle body
mocal oil cooler
scorpion exhaust
Question is will the spec you got do 250bhp. Its a hard one to answer as is seems every volvo lump being built use's a different sort of cam and set up so all will vary and hard to say what one produces what power.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioshi_s_golf
What fuel pump, intercooler, throttle body, exhaust, spec of T3 you using?
looks like there may be a rolling road day so id like to see what power im running would be very pleased with 180bhp. Im sure the standard injectors can fuel for more than 18psi boost tho as mine goes down as low as 10 at wot I have adjusted the maf sensor now to sort this a little but my turbo can only really produce 18psi realisticly so cant try it:sad2:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
The fuel pump it will be walbro 255l/h . The intercooler i didn't choose yet it will be one of thoose
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FRONT-MOUNT-UN...item2c535c391d or this one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-MEDIUM-Int...item1c15a0dc8f
or this one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SMALL-Inte...item1c16126144
The throttle body it will be from vauxhall 2.0 8v engine. The exhaust it will be 2.5 inch. The turbo it will be from ford rs turbo or from lancia dedra or other. What type of garrett t3 to look with what Trim to be?
If your after abit of power why not go for a Cosworth T3 to start with and go from there. Not too sure what the flange pattern is but sure you'll have to mod the volvo manifold to accept a T3 flange if its still 4-bolt holes.
Intercooler wise, i'd prob go for middle one or bottom one.
would have thought a t3 would be a bit laggy lots of people are using t28's on these engines with good results and should be more than up to the job of 250bhp. Why a vauxhall 2L TB? Have you looked at the 2L N/A volvo TB's?
My friend run his Volvo with bits he had kicking about the workshop quite a few years ago.
Standard 440 turbo block crank and pistons, Ported head, Reprofiled valves, Vauxhall cavalier trottle body, T3 turbo 48a/r exhuast housing 42 compressor housing modified for 2wd cosworth compressor wheel 360 degree thrust bearing, Dot 31 actuator, Subaru impreza fuel pump, Omex 500 engine management, Sierra cosworth yellow injectors, Frontera 2.4turbo diesel alloy intercooler, 2.5bar map sensor, Blitz E-SBC boost controller, K&N air filter, HKS iridium plugs,
http://www.huskyracer.50megs.com/spec/
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
I didn't look the volvo tb. One of my friends in Bulgaria is with the same engine with garrett t3 and he says that the turbo kicks from 3000 rpm. Which for me is still okey.
boost at 3k is very good going.
if it helps heres my graph
this is prety much a stock engine with a different cam and injectors. using a t28 from a 200sx.
oh an 2 of the gear box ooooops:)
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Anyone know which is the best company to get a cam rigrind?? Anyone have any experince with any company??
Cheers
Pedro
piper cams
piper did mine, they made it a 279, i had to also buy some shims, the whole lot was £200-300 i can not rememberQuote:
Originally Posted by p30esteves
Is that 30psi boost youre running dave to make the 230bhp?:scratch:
From what i can see on his dyno graph it makes about 20psi at 3500rpm and holds around 18psi. I think they're Great results for that boost. I thought it took about 25psi to make 230 bhp. Well done dave:agree: im guessing the Dta management helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave r5
what boxes were they and what ft lb did the your engine produce to break them:eek:
the reason im asking ,is that i dont want mine going the same way:cry::cry: them piccys will give me nightmares:ashamed:
Ah i get it now:ashamed::cartman:
would 18psi on a t28 make more power than a t2/25 at 18psi all other things being equal thats what i keep hearing but why??:scratch:
flows more air ,simplezz;)
or t3 even more air:D
still dont get it:cartman: if the smaller turbo is forcing air into the engine at 18psi then more air from the larger turbo would mean more psi of boost wouldnt it:scratch:
your wastegate will still regulate final boost pressure , but because your bigger turbo will generate less heat /flow bigger volume of compressed air(compressor/turbine) you should get more power, plus you wont be working that t28 quite as hard so your engine bay should stay cooler also, which will help with all that engine in the tiny 5 gtt bay:)
if you imagine blowing through a straw ,and then blowing through a 2"waste pipe ,the 2"waste pipe will be less restrictive.
simple terms and not exactly scientific/technical , but hope that helps
the less restrictive, the less heat is produced ,and heat robs oxygen and overall power
if i'm wrong the more worthy among us ,will take notice and reply
no piss taking comments please!!:p
makes sense. so if im running a t2/25 at 18psi boost and its rich in that case a t28 at 18psi would lean it out and make me more power?:D
yes,more air in the cylinders ,which will weaken your air to fuel ratio mix, but you would still need to get the afr's just right to achieve the best possible burn, which should give you maxium power output,but cam timing ,and inlet temps,flow will all make a difference to overall output, the world of tuning has many twists and turns ,and finding the perfect setup is an art, and comes with time and practice / experience of which i have very little:laugh::laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
its like a table fan blowing alot slower to generate air compared to a hairdryer whizzing its nuts of to generate the same volume, sorry if thats a bad example to :)
the bigger the turbo the more lag you will get(longer to spool up the turbo) but will give you more power ,but its getting the balance right , for how you want the car to perform:D
ermm may have to get a t28 then:D dont think there too laggy on these lumps apparently.
theres a few reasons large turbos make more power.....temp has little actual effect.
the turbine is largely responsable for making more power at the same boost levels, as larger turbos usually have both a larger compressor, and a larger turbine.
the turbine "corks" the exhaust, and restricts flow, which kills power.
so a larger turbine will not "cork" it as much, and hence flow more at the same pressure (allbeit at the expense of spool time).
secondly, the larger compressor has more ability to keep the cylinders full as rpm rises, (where a smaller compressor will tail off). simply put, large compressors "carry" torque higher. and if you make more torque at higher rpm, you make more hp, since hp = toquexrevs/5252.
i.e if you make 200ft/lb at 5000revs you make 190bhp.
if you make the same 200ft/lb but at 7000revs you make 266bhp.
should go very well, with little lag ,have a look around on the forum and find out who's running the b18f and pm them, im sure they will let you know, or pm Adam L , he should be able to guide you on what size/ ar's your after:agree::cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing
larger turbo it is then:D
so is it true then that engines make the same bhp at 5252rpm? as that one really confuesd me:confused::D:wasntme:
have heard that t28's go really well on these engines but have no idea on comp sizes and a/r etc...:confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
Gary, just buy a 200 sx T28 or pulsar T28 matey and slap it on stop fannying about with the pidly little turbo you have on there at the mo. Get some real power out of the engine you have
negative :wasntme:Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
well for starters speak to rob who posted above , he is running the same engine as you and is well into the heavy development side of it , will know the engine better than most:DQuote:
Originally Posted by HAndy
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
stands to reason it wont go aswell as a larger turbined/comp unit would....
depends what you want from the car, peak hp, or drivability
read that in a magazine but couldnt see how that it was true guess i read it wrong:ashamed::DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing
James as your vnt's doing nothing atm fancy slapping it my car and see what it can do:D
Which one is the better of the two turbos? I know either the 200sx is the upgrade for the pulsar or the other way around i forget:(
decide what YOU want from the car, fast resonse or big power , and go from there , i would suggest a new turbo with 360 bearings /well balanced, and stay away from secondhand/unknown units ,cheap is not always best and ,can destroy all the hardwork of fitting your engine:)
im using the car as a road car and im not really going to be trying to break any 1/4mile times but would like some decent power. Over 200bhp would be great but i like my boost early and wouldnt really like to substitute driveability for power need the power there when i want it tho. Not asking for much:wasntme:
:scratch::scratch: sorry rob , was thinking /ment marky mark :laugh::wasntme::wasntme:Quote:
Originally Posted by HAndy
I have a t2/25 from turbo technics has a 360 degree thrust bearing and is nearer a full t25 than a t2. Its doing the job well at the moment but would like more power but i like the fact that i get full boost before 3000rpm
:laugh: Ive spoken to markymark at the surrey meets but not really about what turbo to go for so thats next topic:wasntme:Quote:
Originally Posted by HAndy
Would love to see a vnt on this engine to see how it responds:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
like i said , pm a few members with the b18f and see what they say and go from there , but a cheap unit from china etc is not going to last very long, and can destroy engines fairly quick if they let go:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
yeah if james stops being tight and gives me his turbo:laugh::wasntme:Quote:
Originally Posted by TrixNFlix
that will cost you to!!:laugh::laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by TrixNFlix
not always the case, i may have one, ;)but dont know what im doing with my car yet.
what about a rollerbearing t28 that would spool up quicker than a normal t28 wouldnt it?
Yeah i think this was the direction Haz was going before he sold up. Just get a £150 t28 on gary before you start spending big bucks. If you dont like it sell it on, you wont loose any money.Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
slap a gt30 on there :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrixNFlix
:agree:
the 200sx is better than the pulsar one isnt it?
is .70 trim good:scratch:
The 200 sx turbo works well
I have a pulsar turbo waiting to go on if needed. But has a bigger exhaust housing.
Going external wastegate soon as I don't like the spike.
Actual held boost it 16.5 - 17.5 psi
Steve wouldnt map it over 18 as he don't like cast pistons. He wasn't impressed with the spike as it was.
As for gear boxes the were both Volvo units m59.
For mallory I put in a m60 box which was bye far the best
is the m60 a volvo version of the renault jc5 box?Quote:
Originally Posted by dave r5
I'm unsure of that mate.
It was an eBay special £5 :)
Deal of the centuary lol
dave was you using one of these t25/28s 200sx turbos to make the 230 bhp or the full t28?
He was using the the turbo i have which i told you about Gary. The 200sx s13 is some sort of t25Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
am pretty sure the turbo your referring to is a t25 with .64 ex housing. i have one of them here
Have seen them on the bay but didnt know if it was one of those t25/28 or a full t28 think when funds allow i will go for a 200sx full t28 and take it from there. cant go wrong for £200:D
Im pretty sure it's a full t 28 will look tomorrow tho
It sure is Dave, had a good look at it at mallory, same as mine. :D:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by dave r5
Im thinking of something like one of these two but i have no idea what to read from the a/r sizes wheels trim etc...:confused:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GT28-T28-TURBO...#ht_3712wt_905
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Drift-T28-GT28...#ht_2983wt_905
Top link rob
I will measure my turbo later
jb3 re-branded :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HAndy
cheers scoff , just out of interest how long did your jc5 last and was 370bhp its absolute limit, (dont know what ft lb your old engine made) and what let go :scratch::)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
yeah good like matey does make me feel stupid tho:rob:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing
Are those ebay turbos actually any good quality wise?Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
was told the bearings were no good by markey mark and should get them changed first so i guess may be easier to just get a decent one in the first place.
How much more are you looking at for a non ebay one?
thats a really good site iv just read the page :agree::agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing
altho my brain cant handle page 103 :eek::eek:
The ebay turbo is basically a hong kong phooey version of this turbo
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=GRT
But the ebay one has a Journal Bearing rather than a ball bearing core.
Just went on the turbo dynamics site and its about £800 odd for genuine garret GT2871/60R, ouch
honestly I don't know what failed in mine, it just failed with a spectacular noise and that was that. It had about 300lb/ft at that time. Glenn with his C1J is the guy that can really break gearboxes. He's tore the teeth off 1st gear on 2 seperate occasions, broken selector forks and pushed lumps of ring gear out of the casing. 1st gear is what I'd be worried about if I was you. I hate to say it because it's the coolest bit of an RWD conversion, but you'll want to avoid hard launches !Quote:
Originally Posted by HAndy
Does he pre load before launching out of interested scoff?
No, I suppose it might help, not sure how you'd go about doing it without line lockQuote:
Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing
thanks for the info scoff:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
i will bear that in mind:burnrubber::innocent: