Silver Dream Racer

formerly known as "The Rainbow Warrior"

I guess I should start a build thread, and I'll start will a really dull entry :sad2:

For this first little job I'm converting the front hubs to use studs rather than bolts. The studs are Ford fitment from Rally Design. I'm using early 4 stud Laguna 2.2D hubs, and they're a fair bit chunkier than the GTT ones. In the attached pictures I'm thinning down the front hubs, partly to lose weight, partly to give some space for the studs, and partly to set the right length through the disk, wheel, and new front nuts.

My lathe isn't very big, and the drive belts were struggling with the large diameter steel so I ended up having to take 10 thou cuts, that's a lot of cutting, and I filled a bucket with swarf.

My next jobs are to drill out the original threads to 1/2" and press the studs in. In the background of the 3rd pic you can see 2 studs partially screwed into a 3rd hub. You can also see the thinned down hub alongside an unmolested one.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j.../gatsoburn.gif

and just a little link to some brakes
http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto...kes/maxtorque/:D

Finished fitting the front wheel studs. It took a while as I has to borrow a 1/2" drill.

Clamped the hubs to the mill, and drilled out the standard threads to 1/2"

Cut a length of tube to slip over the bolt, and pressed the first one in using my vise

Dropped one of my new 280mm solid disks onto the hub.

Bolted a wheel on to check I'd got the length right

Pressed the rest of the studs home, job done.

so all that hold the studs in is what ? sorry to ask the silly question :scared: ?

little confused, just wondering how come you cant simply screw a stud in tight with thead lock, like the 205 stud conversions etc

What advantages do you get by using studs rather than bolts then?

Fair play to ya, you're a bit handy aren't you? :smokin:

Easier to change alloys as they will rest on the studs.

Do the studs have a tapered base/small splines to hold them tight? I recall the ford ones having something like when i had to change one on my old sierra years ago. Will make changing wheels a lot easier!

TOP JOB....................

works well from the looks of it too.....

i wish i had a workshop in my shed :cry:

...........tbh, i wish i had a shed!! :cry:

ooh, so many questions.

what holds them in.. if you look at the 3rd of the first batch of pictures you can see a couple of studs in the background. They have splines to stop them spinning, and a 'mushroom' to stop them pulling through.

why didn't I just screw some studs in - that was plan A, I got a kit of bits from rally design. They were shocking and I sent them back as I wouldn't use them on my car. No 2 were the same, the threads were dreadful, there was nothing to positively locate the stud. You just screwed it in as far as you fancied, then I suppose loctited, or welded it in place. I just had visions of the wrong bit unscrewing during a tyre change. I don't need to add unreliability into my car, especially when it's pretty simple to do the job right.

Why do it at all? Good question, it takes me 15 minutes to do a wheel swap on my own, anything that makes the job easier is a good thing. I was also beginning to wonder how much abuse the standard threads should take, this way I can swap bolts and nuts when I think they're worn. I intend to machine the hubs away where the disk rotating screw lives, the studs will stop the disk moving during a wheel change.

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Originally Posted by dave j gtt

so all that hold the studs in is what ? sorry to ask the silly question :scared: ?

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o right i get you, they go thru from the back side of the hub , yep silly question couldnt get my head around :laugh: cheers

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Originally Posted by dave j gtt

o right i get you, they go thru from the back side of the hub , yep silly question couldnt get my head around :laugh: cheers

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no problem, what may seem obvious often isn't :)

I'm glad I saw these pictures Andy, it prompted me to set my lathe up in my tiny garage again, only to discover the only chuck I have won't open enough to get the OD of the very things I needed to turn :( Ebay time again.

what else is in store for the wee beastie andrew?

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Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

what else is in store for the wee beastie andrew?

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Just the rest of the stuff...

I've got a bit of secret stuff to do, and you won't see that for a while. Beyond that I've got wishbones to make, rear axle to finish errm, getting depressed now :cry:

I might just put the engine together so I can fire it up before redoing all the wiring in the car. I need to get it to the dyno sometime, but I need to also finish the exhaust before that.

chop chop then Andy.....

should be testing by sunday lunchtime then,.;)

keep at it young man......it's all worth it.

if you end up down ure local rr place let me know and ill pop up

will do, but it be an engine dyno this time

sounds fun, take it ure changing somthing that means you need to get it on a dyno again?

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Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

sounds fun, take it ure changing somthing that means you need to get it on a dyno again?

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LOL, the conrods are the same:sad2:

is that about it lol

Good work Andy and rotational weight save... :) i gather the disc will have some machining to fit and run in the caliper or you just spacing the caliper to match the running of the disc...

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Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Good work Andy and rotational weight save... :) i gather the disc will have some machining to fit and run in the caliper or you just spacing the caliper to match the running of the disc...

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I keep changing the plan, the latest is to build around the standard disk, then look at lightening later, or maybe going custom with an alloy bell. Those 280mm disks are heavy though, they weigh as much as a standard GTT disk.

I'm thinking about getting a better mill before Christmas, so maybe I'll get mad with that, at the moment I'm not confident that the thing that's on the lathe won't move.

i really should read things twice....:ashamed: duurrrrrr

Is the much difference in the front wheel widths or geo over the GT set up with the hud swaps?

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Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Is the much difference in the front wheel widths or geo over the GT set up with the hud swaps?

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they're completely different

have you broken a gtt hub andrew? could you not of fitted the studs to the gtt hub? are you going to need new custom front struts?

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Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

have you broken a gtt hub andrew? could you not of fitted the studs to the gtt hub? are you going to need new custom front struts?

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yes I have broken a GTT hub, both of them as it happens. The new front end uses bigger CV's, bearings, and is all around much stiffer. And yes, I'm going to need another set of custom front struts.

thats cool, didnt see a post relating to the reason to swap to a bigger stronger hub. so how long till the cars back together and in competion? and why is it called the silver dream racer? you having a colour change?

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Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

thats cool, didnt see a post relating to the reason to swap to a bigger stronger hub. so how long till the cars back together and in competion? and why is it called the silver dream racer? you having a colour change?

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it's kinda spread over 3 forums now :D

If I don't keep changing the spec it should be finished about 2 years ago :scared:

Iceberg silver when it gets painted. Kinda white-not-quite.

I've started doing a bit for the rose jointed front wishbones, my old ones had rose joints on the outer end, these will be tubular, and use 3 rose joints.

First job for the night shift at the Oxfordshire tophat factory was to make some tophats for the inner rose joints. The lathe was a bit happier making these small parts, and the finish ended up pretty good to.

Another small job tonight was boring out the 76.5mm ARP piston ring compressor to 76.6mm to suit my pistons. That was a bit noisy with it ringing like a bell :D

Ya vernier needs zero'ing :D

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Originally Posted by Mart

Ya vernier needs zero'ing :D

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nah it doesn't, just needs closing :P

Got some v impressive mod's going on there mate :agree:

What you doing to the lump?

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Originally Posted by Mart

Got some v impressive mod's going on there mate :agree:

What you doing to the lump?

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as above, I'm changing everything but the conrods.

The manifolds, turbo, and intercooler will be the same, new exhaust, new front and rear suspension, new bodywork. Wheels will be the same, calipers the same, rear disks the same. New logger, new dashboard, new gearbox, driveshafts, uprights, bearings, wishbones, front disks, rear axle, dampers all around.

It should end up lower, wider, lighter, stiffer, and hopefully a good chunk faster.

This latest rebuild will be in the order of 15K, ie I could have jusy gone out and bought a brand new, ready to race single seater and thrown the car away.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

It should end up lower, wider, lighter, stiffer, and hopefully a good chunk faster.

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and what about the car ??????????????????????????????

In what way have you changed the manifolds?

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Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

In what way have you changed the manifolds?

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the manifolds will be the same....

today's bit of fun..

I bored out the tapers on the hub so that I could fit rose joints onto the uprights, made a bit of a spacer for the bottom mount to help correct the geometry for the lowered suspension. I did something similar for the old suspension, but I've gone a bit further this time. I still need to play around to decide how all the bits will eventually fit together.

no making stuff tonight, just a bit of measuring and drawing. No making stuff this weekend either due to a couple of lame excuses. Pictures show a gap where a caliper bracket will need to go, and the CAD drawing is what I plan to make to fill the gap. It's a bit frustrating as a lot of the stuff I'm doing at the moment is almost the same as the stuff I made for the old uprights.

I found a nice bit of aluminium and started trimming it on the bandsaw to use for the calliper brackets, it was making a bit of a racket, so it'll keep for the weekend.

Started to mock up the front suspension so that I can see what needs doing, the wishbone is blocked at about running height. It still has a bit too much camber and the tyres will fit the arches better when it's set closer. The bits are just balanced together, but it looks like it'll be about 50mm wider than a Williams.

I'm going to have to cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the body kit to stop it rubbing on the road :D

I've decided that I'm going to get some custom top mounts made to push the damper tops outboard rather than incline the dampers this time. Duncan, who made your mounts?

I was a bit late leaving work today, so did a bit of drawing rather than making. I thought I'd start doing a bit of a sketch of what I want for top mounts, the question is, do I make them myself, or get them made? Anyway I've sketched a 2 part mount, the one part bolts into the inner arch, the other contains the bearing. This version allows about 3 deg of camber change without changing caster.

its coming along nicely now.....

please let me know if and when your at curburough this coming year....

cracking CAD drawings too,,,,

Make the mounts your self mate! It would be a shame if you went to an outside company from an achievement point of view. When you looked at mounting your calipers did it matter at what angle you mount them? I.e. at 3 o'clock or 2 o'clock? I've always wanted to know as you see different manufacturers mounting them in different places?!

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Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

Make the mounts your self mate! It would be a shame if you went to an outside company from an achievement point of view. When you looked at mounting your calipers did it matter at what angle you mount them? I.e. at 3 o'clock or 2 o'clock? I've always wanted to know as you see different manufacturers mounting them in different places?!

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I've just (today) ordered a mill, so will probably have to make them myself to claw back some of the expenditure. I'm just concerned that if I make everything myself it'll never get done, it's certainly nice when you send a drawing off and a part arrives that fits.

With callipers you only need to worry about getting the bleed nipples at the top such that you don't get any trapped air, and mounting them such that the lugs on the callipers don't clash with the lugs on the upright. Attached is an early sketch of my callipers roughly placed in the right position.

what sort of mill have you ordered andy ? Iv'e been gathering bits up to do light milling at home, end mills, slot drills, cross vice, etc.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

what sort of mill have you ordered andy ? Iv'e been gathering bits up to do light milling at home, end mills, slot drills, cross vice, etc.

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Chester Lux / RF45 I couldn't get anything bigger into my shed, in fact I'm pretty worried about how I'll get it into the shed. I'm hoping it'll be good enough that I don't wish I was using a mill at work.

Fair comment Andrew, but on the same note, any set backs you know who to blame ;)

Ah right so their wont be any brake force gained from mounting on the front or the rear of the hub? Interesting thanks for clearing that up!

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Originally Posted by Chris Hebden

Ah right so their wont be any brake force gained from mounting on the front or the rear of the hub? Interesting thanks for clearing that up!

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not to talk of, if you're designing an upright from scratch you'll look at putting the mounting lugs in the strong parts of the hub, or maybe putting the callipers underneath to lower the CofG, or maybe putting them where the brake ducts will work best.

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Good work :agree: Looking forward to the next instalments....

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

not to talk of, if you're designing an upright from scratch you'll look at putting the mounting lugs in the strong parts of the hub, or maybe putting the callipers underneath to lower the CofG, or maybe putting them where the brake ducts will work best.

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I remember in the late 80's F1 teams were using a front and rear caliper on the front hubs to try and increase brake force but spreading the heat across 2 calipers per disc rather than 1....developed with a small company called AP racing, LOL

this increased the brake force hugely, too much in fact and the heat build up was enormous so the idea went back to a single 4 pot caliper mounted at the front....

the disc got overheated due to it only doing half a rotation before being heated by friction again,hence......most excellent brakes for 10 laps..........then almost certain death...LOL...
oh to be an F1 test driver

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Originally Posted by paul b

I remember in the late 80's F1 teams were using a front and rear caliper on the front hubs to try and increase brake force but spreading the heat across 2 calipers per disc rather than 1....developed with a small company called AP racing, LOL

this increased the brake force hugely, too much in fact and the heat build up was enormous so the idea went back to a single 4 pot caliper mounted at the front....

the disc got overheated due to it only doing half a rotation before being heated by friction again,hence......most excellent brakes for 10 laps..........then almost certain death...LOL...
oh to be an F1 test driver

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that test has been repeated much more recently...

no surprise really, a lot of development goes back to basics first.....then try it again with new materials....LOL..



as long as they don't go back to the "auto" VVT gearbox........

god , that was an awful thing, remember Coulthard, (young and upcoming star) testing it.....LOL

Nothing new on the car this week, but I have been busy in the workshop. As can be seen above I've been happily drawing parts to make, and have been making some of them on my small lathe/mill. In the midst of this I'd decided that I didn't trust the swinging mill arm not to move, and had come to the conclusion that I should get a dedicated mill. I'd been playing with the idea of getting a small CNC setup, and with this in mind found myself at the Midland Model Engineering show a couple of weeks ago. Having sat and watched the small CNC machines shudder their way through nibbling away at small bits of metal I confirmed what I'd though, that being that I needed something a bit bigger. I'd have loved to get a decent sized knee mill, but there is no way I could get one in my workshop. Anyway, I left the show having ordered 300Kg of Chinese Bench mill.

Driving home I began to wonder how the hell I'd get it into the workshop. I'd considered taking it down the 5 steps from the drive into the garden, dragging it across the garden, then lifting it the 2 steps up into the workshop. In the end I decided that the best way was to take it through the garage, and down the 2 steps into the workshop. The only problem was the garage and shed were chocka, and I'd need to pick the car up and move it across 2ft.

That was last weekends job, and by the end of it the car was shuffled across and piles of stuff pushed into the corners. Moving the car was a bit exciting with it balanced on a engine crane and a trolley jack.

In the midst of this I'd decided that the workshop and garage is bastid freezing in the winter, and maybe it could do with some insulation.

A while a go I bought some expensive insulation material (celotex) for the house. Bugger it, the house doesn't need insulation, the shed does. The plan is if I make the shed nice enough, I'll get home from work, make a sandwich, and rush off to the workshop to get warm :) So in the evenings this week I started making space in the shed where I'd decided the mill should go. I already had a solid bench built, so I just needed to insulate behind it, and panel the walls/ceiling.

I got a bit done, but looking at the bench it was largely supported by the shed wall, and that would probably make a hell of a racket when the mill was running. OK, new plan, dismantle the bench, and build a free standing one.

I'd also realised that is I was going to get the mill down the steps, and through the 2ft thick wall into the workshop I'd need to pick it up with the engine crane, and pull it into the workshop. In the midst of this it became clear that I needed to build a pier so that I could roll the mill from the garage into the workshop at garage level, then lift it off the pier with the engine hoist. Moving the Mill around should be pretty simple as I'd borrowed a 'skateboard' from work.

You can imagine the hilarity this lot caused when I tried to explain it at work :D

That took me to Friday, I'd taken the day off to take delivery to the mill. The mill arrived in a big wooden box on a pallet, and the van driver had a fork lift trolley thing and it squeezed onto the drive with limited drama (as long as you exclude the cam belt letting go on the Delica when I went to move it...). He gamely tried to give me a hand to shuffle it onto my 'skateboard'. We were going nowhere fast, so I told him he'd best get going and I'd sort it out on my own. With a slightly disbelieving look he made his escape. It wasn't as bad as it sounds, I just had to drag the engine hoist up from the workshop, and let hydraulics do the work.

Unfortunately my camera battery was flat, so the first picture I managed to take was of the mill sat on the 'skateboard' in the garage. The next picture is of the free-standing bench I knocked up yesterday evening/this morning (well, those bits of yesterday evening that weren't spent in the pub ogling drunk witches :) ). Next picture is the mill, on the skateboard, on the pier. The 4th picture is it wheeled in front of the bench - note the insulation on the wall, I couldn't board it over because I couldn't fetch the wood with a busted car :(. Pic 5 shows the engine crane trying to lift the mill onto the bench, note the lack of headroom...

last couple of pictures.. The last shows the mill sat in place. I still need to trim the wings on the bench to allow the bed to move from side to side, I wanted to leave that job until the mill was in place, so that they could be as big as possible. Hopefully the high sides and back will stop the chips flying too far across the workshop.

When I first bought the mill I didn't think it would be able to go in this part of the workshop as it'd hit the ceiling, it almost ended up on the right hand side (and then only when aligned to fit between the ceiling joists). I checked the dimensions and figured I could get the motor to fit between the ceiling joists along the side. The bench isn't back against the wall yet as I still want to panel it, it looks like it'll be OK though. There is one small proviso, according to the spec it should be 1.4m tall, it's 1.45m tall, which puts it through the roof. I'm hoping that I won't need to lift it that far, if I do there are 2 plans, either add a bump to the roof for the motor to go up into, or, as one wag at work suggested, a flap in the roof that the mill pushes open.

andy are you going wide body now.? can i ask where you bought that kit from? looks like primas corsa kit?

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Originally Posted by raj

andy are you going wide body now.? can i ask where you bought that kit from? looks like primas corsa kit?

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yep, I've been going wide for a while.

I bought it off a guy in Coventry, it's very like the Prima Kit. Fits where it touches.. although that may be normal :) I was going to buy the moulds off him, but I'm struggling a bit for storage.

:cool: nicely done

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

yep, I've been going wide for a while.

I bought it off a guy in Coventry, it's very like the Prima Kit. Fits where it touches.. although that may be normal :) I was going to buy the moulds off him, but I'm struggling a bit for storage.

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im assuming this guy from covo makes the kit as you say he has the moulds?

how much was the full kit? cheaper than prima im hoping?

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Originally Posted by raj

im assuming this guy from covo makes the kit as you say he has the moulds?

how much was the full kit? cheaper than prima im hoping?

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he does, I don't know how much it is, we did a bit of a deal.

How's this coming along Andrew?

Great read this thread. You haven't got a Mrs though eh Andy :wasntme:

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'm hoping that I won't need to lift it that far, if I do there are 2 plans, either add a bump to the roof for the motor to go up into, or, as one wag at work suggested, a flap in the roof that the mill pushes open.

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Or chomp a bit off the feet of the bench it sits on?

What sort of money would he want for the moulds?

Any updates Mr Cooke?;)