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First post!
Brought an engine from a RTOC member that has turned out not to be as described. It was supposed to be fitted with "Forged Pistons" as per the advert, After taking off the sump and looking at the part number stamped on the underside of the pistons, they are just standard ones from another Renault. Spoke to seller who has told me to basically do one. Just a warning to all members becuase the guy is still on here selling a lot of stuff!!!!!!!
Name and shame....
Also demand a refund, how long ago did you buy it??
if the deal has gone sour its good to hear from the other party, if his/her reasons are genuine there will be no issues with him/her being named and they can explain the situation :agree:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
First thing I did was ask for a refund and basically got told "No Chance", But claims to be an "Honest seller" Got it a few weeks ago but havent been able to confirm the piston part number until now as ive had to move house twice!! and the engine has been in storage with my car. Its a lot of money for me and It took me a while to decide whether to do the conversion. Now im stuck with an engine thats no good and a grand out of pocket... Dont worry though I havent given up yet
Name them.. Could we not set something such as eBay? With a % on a persons sales? And adds this to there main page? Just so people have a fighting chance? Pisses me off when fellow members feel the need to make money falsely. We're all in the same game here or so I thought. Bad members need outing!! :mad:
Bad news. I must say it boils my pee when I see stuff like this. The only thing you can do now is name them. He can then put forward his story.
name and shame ! people will know who to look out for then
also if they are on here we can see both sides and maybe get a resolution? 3rd party perspective and all that
I think what penfold and adey are saying is what's the point of "warning" people if you're not going to name them? Either give the guy a chance to explain or at least give the rest of us notice to be careful about buying in the future! I, as I'm sure lots of others on here have dealt in parts from other members and with that you'd like to think that there is an element of trust but also responsibility for others.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Its R5_Scotty
Would be good to hear what he has to say
The engine was from me, I brought it for glens old five . I brought it as a forged lump. As far as I knew the pistons are forged. Thats how it was sold to me. I brought it put it in the garage and there it stayed . Iv got fed up with the fives and decidedni want something else for a while so hence the sale of my parts. I put the lump up for sale on here as you all probably had seen . I advertised it as I got sold it. Just wanted back what it owed me. I didnt build it and hadnt touched it . When dean came over with his pal to look over it he asked whats been done I told him I was unsure really. I told him what I had been told. He said , so the bottom ends forged I said I dont really know for sure but the fella said the pistons are. I said to dean if your not happy or your unsure about it then leave it. You dont have to buy it. He still said he wanted it. So he took it. I felt I was honest and hadnt lied. What more can I say. Theres loads of people who have met and brought parts from me and know me well.so make your own views of this. I aint a keyboard basher. I tried talkin to the fella but it aint working. I sold it honestly and told him what I knew. Him and his friend looked it over and still took it.he didnt have too as I said I told him I was unsure on it but felt the fella that sold it to me was honest.
I was writting up but everyone had posted befor I could get a message up. Aint great on computers
Be nice to get peoples feedback on this befor everyone starts slagging me off.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
No, I asked about the rods as there was no mention of them in the advert. "YOU" advertised the pistons as forged. If you wasnt sure then you should of left the word "FORGED" out of the advert. Yes we looked over it, cant really inspect pistons from the outside!!
What can you do if goods don't match their description?
If goods don't match their description and you have only had them for a very short time and not used them, you should return them to the seller and claim a refund.
You can do this regardless of where you bought the goods, for example in a shop, on the internet, or from a catalogue. It also doesn't matter whether you bought the goods from a private seller or from a business.
You should say that the goods have been 'misdescribed' and you would like a refund under the Sale of Goods Act.
By law its false/wrong advertising.
By rights you should refund & take it back and look to the previous seller for your money back.
Wasn't sold as seen, but advertised as "Forged".
Well that sounds fare enough n but can something be resolved after all he still has an engine of unknown build which is fare enough but could up not work something out between yourselves so your both happy? R5 Scott sells lots to many an i think this is the first iv seen personally.
But il will give you that Scotty at least you have been decent enough to be polite and not just dismissive..
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Polite? id be polite if I wasnt going to give any money back!! he offered £100 is that polite!!!!
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuHERTS
This is exactly what I said :)
Chat it over the phone guys. Forums are not the place to be trying to sort out a problem like this.
Scotty is a breeze to deal with compared to some of the fools I have been experiencing since owning the 5.
Good luck to you both and let all hope this gets sorted.
No bud that's not fare at all. I sold a good engine new gaskets etc.. Very good runner £250. That's all they are worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanmGT5
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Ive tried that believe me, I didnt want to spread it over the forum, but what else can I do??, hes not prepared to refund, even though it should be him having this discussion with the guy he got it from. If he's as decent as hes trying to make out then the first thing he should of done was agree to a refund.
Iv been good in my opinion. I called you. I returned all your messages . You had ago at me for not replying to1 message.If I thought I was doing you over I wouldnt reply at alI .i offered a 100 to help.so fuel costs of collecting. You wanted 600 back. I feel iv been fair. You got 21 turbo injectors, inlet mani, log mani, magnicor leads, dizzy, map sensor, flywheels , gearbox. The lump had piper cams and pulleys etc. It was a good buy still in my opinion. And like I said I told you I was unsure and if you dont feel sure on it yourself dont take it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanmGT5
Load the advert up.
At the moment people are judging on hear say, when really apart from R5 Scotty and the buyer no one knows what has gone on.
People getting involved with opinions really aren't helping either of these guys sort this out.
I will say that I've bought a heap of stuff from Scott and had no problems at all with him or his parts. He's gone out of his way to help local members with cars and advice.
sounds to me like both people involved in this have been "tucked up" Scott mentioned he bought this as forged- who/where is the chap that claims to have built this engine? Name and shame him.
I m more than happy for it to be posted up as I feel iv done nothing wrong. Like I said I would like to see peoples feedback on this.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Quote:
Originally Posted by r5_scotty
Wouldnt you have a go if you had just spent £1200 on something thats not worth half?????
Yes I have those bits (they were part of the deal) er I paid for the gearbox (1200 all in)
The pistons are no good, there from a 2L 100bhp laguna.
Fair?? Really??????
Take this to pm, and committee deal with... These things get out of hand.
Both have had input, no need to let it escalate further on open boards.
Leave it up but lock it down.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Ive spoken to guy who Scott had the engine off because he stopped replying to Scott. Says it all really and I doubt he will care either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCat
At the end of the day it doesnt matter whether he built it, brought it or found it. He advertised it as "Forged Pistons" we all put our trust in others when buying engines as you cant strip them down before buying, if your unsure, then advertise as unsure or dont list it in the first place.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
FALSE ADVERTISING, SALES GOOD ACTQuote:
Originally Posted by r5_scotty
What can you do if goods don't match their description?
If goods don't match their description and you have only had them for a very short time and not used them, you should return them to the seller and claim a refund.
You can do this regardless of where you bought the goods, for example in a shop, on the internet, or from a catalogue. It also doesn't matter whether you bought the goods from a private seller or from a business.
You should say that the goods have been 'misdescribed' and you would like a refund under the Sale of Goods Act.
f7p turbo lump
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
up for grabs as my plans have gone out the window.
f7p turbo engine .
was rebuilt with piper turbo spec cams and pulleys and has mahle forged pistons. arp conrod bolts,knife edged crank,turbo return drilled and tapped into block and not the sump.will come with renault 21 injectors on the rail , and inlet manifold and throttle bodie. new gaskets and new cambelt and pulleys
viewing is fine just give me a shout. i want throttle bodies and f7r i think now. change my mind like the weather i just want somthing minty fresh . so gona save for a while .
£980
For 1100
I will include a.helix padel clutch which is new and a 172 flywheel. Which will be better for standalone.
Also for 260
I have a rebuilt jc5 gearbox which I brought from market mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanmGT5
Again I didnt know what pistons they were I belived they were forged as I was told and I told you that. I said I was unsure. So I still feel I v done no wrong.....
Box 240
Injectors 80
Leads 45
Dizzy 30
Map sensor 45
Inlet mani and throttle bodie 30
F7p flywheel 25
F4r flywheel 30
So 675 for the lump. I see the cams and pulleys being worth 400 on there own .so I feel it was a good buy. What does everyone else think on the prices?? Plus I belived it was forged too so thought it was a steal! I felt I sold a bargin.
I aint looking too fall out with people. Just want both views put across.
I like the way your trying to justify it, pricing the parts separate is illrelivant. you threw them in as part of the deal.
Again if you were unsure, dont advertise it as. Would you sell a cam as a piper if you wasnt sure?
If its such a good deal then have it back and sell it again in bits.
With those pistons fitted it will be lucky if it doesnt blow to bits on idle!!!
Plus you only paid £750 for it
Sounds like scott got dry bummed by the previous seller.Refund the money to Dean and then try and get your money back of the other guy.Theres no reason for it to be any other way.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by JRP
I would be prepared to take a part refund (to cover the cost to replace the pistons with forged items) I will be taking a risk as the pistons fitted are 82.72mm. I will have to either source some of a similar size or have the block rebored to 83mm (more cost) also i will have to get new gaskets and bolts and somone to do it.
I wont price parts individually as they will probably add up to more than i paid, I will be happy with a refund of £675.
Im probably doing myself here but I want this resolving so I can work on my car.
Await your reply
but even if the parts were there and forged they would be second hand? not new forged piston prices? sort it out guys, not on the boards where everyone can see it. feel free to pay your membership and write it in a non public section.
i feel for you mate but if you viewed before buying id take that as sold as seen, id feel differently if i was buying and it was posted.
also on another personal note, if i was buying it and i viewed it i would of had a good look over it, doesnt take much to drop plugs out and check inside. or even whip the head off. this is the things i would be doing without documented proof of the internals. youve done it when home to check anyway and most sellers wouldnt of had an issue with this sort of inspection being done before the sale.
this is also one word against another. got pics of the parts in the block?
Sold as seen doesnt cut it im affraid, its what its advertised as.
Im no engineer so even if I did see i couldnt of confirm either way. Yes I have pictures and an email from Mahle confirming they are cast so theres no problems there.
It was supposed to of been rebuilt and ran for 5 mins, so they were supposed to be "near new" also I cant really replace with second hand items can I? Casically as it is the engine isnt fit for purpose.
I would pay my membership but im a little short on cash at the moment.
Also it was dark
On another note, it should be the sellers responsibilty to confirm that the item he is selling is as described not the buyers.
of course it doesnt cut it, you want money back. some one is going to end up loosing out here. Looks crap to potential members here in the open. if you can spunk 1200 on an engine a few quid for membership shouldnt be an issue :agree:
I had to sell my C1J set up, not that it matters. So ive now got a five with no engine and an engine with paper cup holder pistons.
Refund the chap. Get your engine back and sell it now knowing its true identity. You'll still have a buyer eventually.
Totally agree, if it was me i wouldnt be happy with anything less than a full refund and hand the goods back
This is going no where like this
Edit... Lets not all get divided up here and cause issue in the club. There is a fair solution posted earlier about going back to the source of original sale.
All I see here is yet more club division.
Me I have no opinion if that's what's being looked for but I know what's fair, lets hope fair prevails (thought, not opinion)
A refund is all I asked for in the beginning. The engine is ready is ready for collection.
The sales good act states items need to be returned
That's fine if he covers the cost, it's a 3 hour journey each way
I would of thought though in the circumstances, the seller would offer to pick up as a good will gesture
You might of thought but if you using the letter of the law as u have above I'd do the same back, you don't ring tescos and say come pick up my out of date strawberry jam do you.
Who was the original seller? The membership should be made aware to not buy from him.
I'd think that from a legal point of view, the advert stated Mahle forged pistons. Standard Laguna pistons were sold.
Irrespective of the other parts and their collective value on the used market.
I know you don't, but then you don't expect to be ripped off by people with the same interest. I'll leave that to Scott to provide the info for the guy he got it from. He's a member on Clio valver not here I believe
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanmGT5
Wow what a whinge, if he was giving me a full refund you shouldn't complain about taking it back. I mean if you bought a shirt from town and it was ripped you would just take it back and that like £50. We're talking about £1200 and your complaining about £50 in fuel??
As mentioned before you should have done more research of your own before handing over the money. Sale of goods act or not you should be more mad at yourself than believe some random stranger. I mean how gulable are you.
Oh on that matter I got an email from the FBI saying they have freezed $100000 of my money and I need to pay a clearance fee. If someone goes half with me to clear the funds ill give you half of the money??
Be thankful the guy is replying.
Oh I see what happening here, all pm each other to back each other up because im not a member. Ill join up then!
Ive made a valid post member or not.
Theres no need for sarcy comments about returning this or that, everyone would be the same if they were in my position.
Ok so how many people have brought an engine from someone and stripped it there and then!, i doubt many. As I said, it was dark and im hardly about to take it apart on his drive.
Its only when ive done more reasearch ive found what I have. Scott should of done this before advertising the engine.
Scott I feel for you mate, I really do, I have had the pleasure of doing deals with you, but it looks as if you have been burnt with this.
I recommend that Dean returns everyone at his expense and Scott provides a full refund. The reason for this is simple in Scott's advert he states it as a forged engine and naming parts....
Scott my advise is to try and get a refund from the original seller (after all I know Scott wouldn't knowingly sell something which it wernt)
If not joy Scott sell the bits separately and take a hit for your losses.
I really do feel for both of you guys, I have brought and sold many many items/cars/engines... Sometimes you get a bargin, other times you get burnt.
Scotty is a very respectable member here, i doubt very much that he knew exactly what was in there initially but took it as gospel from previous seller.
imho, he made the mistake in advertising it as forged. Thats the be all & end all of it.
The courts will see it like that and it would be in his interest to come to some arrangement with Dean as court costs will be a lot more than the £1200.
Meet up half way, swap it all back.. lesson learned.
A deal was agreed on the basis of said pistons being part of the deal.
I expect that what a magistrate would say.
From a committee point of view, I personally don't want to have to deal with this kind of BS. What makes the members think I or the other committee have the time to? I don't. I pee's me off that we have to shepherd people buying and selling. We get too much aggravation from the classifieds.
Scott you say you don't understand what you've done wrong! How can you not, what an astonishing thing for you to say? You sold something you didn't have. Now you refuse so far to make good on that. Being generous and assuming your are simply naive rather than with criminal intent, you made a mistake with advert, but it looks like intended, to deliberately deceive to increase the chance of a sale. Once the buyer had driven three hours you then changed your story to a true one and claimed ignorance. From what was said above you've increased the price over what you paid which looks like you thought you'd bought a bargain and could make some money on it.
Dean, you were caught out by being overly trusting in my opinion. Taking someone at their word with no receipts or evidence to corroborate the claims made in the advert for what was already a second had engine. Sometimes people are honest when selling stuff and often they're not.
Scott you're claiming that you're own ignorance of, and lack of interest in, this engines internal parts excuses you from falsely stating in an advert parts you knew you weren't sure you had to sell. It is dishonest. I don't think you'll find many people to say that it's not.
If the two of you can't quickly come to an amicable agreement then I suggest you ask a magistrate to decide for you.
Who's pm'ing and backing up? Anybody with any sense realises this has been covered on FB too, so is aware of it. Member or not your unhappy and entitled to an opinion..Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanmGT5
It's a pants situation :(
Why all of a sudden are people being judge and jury with this?
This is between buyer and seller, no one else. No one can say what a court would or wouldn't say.
I appreciate its a **** situation, but the real fckin criminal in this is the chap that sold this to Scott originally.
The thread should be locked. Hopefully an AMMICABLE solution can be found between you both.
As far as saying the advert doesnt match the description...it needs to be said that posting something on here is not like buying something in ebay. In this instance, there was no commitment to buy based on the advert alone. I gave a full verbal description before the enginr was purchased and any money changed hands. The verbal description over rules the adver, this is the advice I have been given.
I wasted perhaps an hour of my time on this that I could have been doing something much better with.
A magistrates court does not have a jury. I've enough experience to have a fair idea what they say.
I think I'm correct is saying if someone sells, eg, stolen goods, then they are liable. Ignorance is not an excuse. The seller is deemed to be at fault.
When problems occur in the classifieds and threads are started we usually have to get involved so it becomes not just between buyer and seller.
And I personally strongly don't like deliberate mis-selling. This does seem to have happened here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r5_scotty
You have been advised wrong, an advert is an advert and your clearly stated what parts were fitted. How can you prove a verbal description?
Maybe you need to revise your advert for the shell your selling
Mahle don't even make forged aftermarket pistons for the Renault F-series engines as far as I'm aware.
The Mahle F3P pistons you have in there aren't bad at all though. Certainly better than skimmed F7P pistons, but evidently not what you believed you were buying.
Whats wrong with Glenns old shell?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanmGT5
I want this resolved, but what to do. Im no lier and just to add dean no one has been pm, d etc it all upfront for all to see.
So now it seems people think I should refund for an engine in bits? And now not knowing what he has done to it? Or refund an amount to cover second hand forged pistons?
As stated , one of us comes out short......
Nothing, thought the floor pan was twisted but had been tweaked to fit a 3inch downpipe. I didnt know this when I brought it . I got it home nd saw it. Can put pics up. But its fine :) was thinking of keeping it anyhow. Its so straight and rot free. :D keep getting told to crack on with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5
The engine is not in bits and hasn't been taken to bits, the sump has been removed, that's it. The numbers are visible on the pistons.
How much would it have sold for / been a fair price, if stating the actual pistons it had in it?
I would say 1600 ?? Thats what I was told it was worth. So thought I was doing a good deal....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian S
Sorry thought you ment with forged,I dont know what its worth with the others? Anyone?
Was this even bought through the classifieds on here? I got the impression Dean was not a member before he came on here to create the thread when it was already being debated on FB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian S
Can registered users not view the classifieds? I've forgotten!
I know that guests can view the 'open' classified board, but they have to ignore the rejection notice and click again.
Mahle F3Ps are about £60 + VAT each, including rings and gudgeon pin. To re-hone the block to 82.7mm would cost around £35 per cylinder. The head and deck would likely have been skimmed to make a sensible compression ratio. Probably cheaper or comparable to fit proper 82mm forged pistons in the first place.
No it wasnt. It was done over the phone then he viewed and brought. As said at the beginning I said was unsure f theninternals. I never looked . I brought it put it in the garage then just sold it on. Honestly sold it thinking he got a good deal...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoolio
Dean is a stand up guy very genuine bloke, very fair.
Open shut case.
Give him a refund simples.
I know what id be doing as talking clearly isnt going anywhere.
I bought a patio set from BnQ that was broke, they covered my time and petrol returning it, its called commor courtesy. I really dont see why so many meddling members are joining in, sometimes RTOC is a circus and we all know the clowns that work here.
Like I said its S I M P L E give him a R E F U N D..........
Member or not he's still a human being.
Do the right thing Scotty. You know what to do. :)
You miss my point, if it was bought outside the club it has nothing to do with the club. This is a public forum, not the place for this kind of crap, it does the club no favours.Quote:
Originally Posted by car.crash
Edit; just seen that there is a different thread already talking through these points.
My worry is, if the original seller lied about the pistons, what else has he lied about
Its doing and done no harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoolio
Really? At the very least it's not very edifying and as a window to the club I may be forgiven for thinking that this is "normal business"Quote:
Originally Posted by car.crash
Thread closed and moved.
Hopefully this can be resolved without legal action and swiftly