Cheers mark so say 110? I'm leaving it till after pod I think it's pod I'm aiming for this year are you still going to pod before the retro show? I was going last Sunday but couldn't find my liscence.. I have it safe now though :-)
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Cheers mark so say 110? I'm leaving it till after pod I think it's pod I'm aiming for this year are you still going to pod before the retro show? I was going last Sunday but couldn't find my liscence.. I have it safe now though :-)
I had a blast in a 5 with a t25 and a .63 rear at the weekend,not for me,didn't start to pull till 5k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
My t25 has a .49 I loved it I bought the t28 for pod but over winter I think I'm getting my t25 rebuilt hopefully its just the seals boosted fine no cracks just smokedQuote:
Originally Posted by casper
That doesnt sound right it should be well on song at 4k
Which bit Andy? It's at a bar at 4k onwards then at 5 its pulling up to the 1.6 it really is high end all go low end no show lol
At least your getting there Paul.
Yeah might be worth trying 110degs mate, when its on song does the engine want to keep reving off the rev gauge?
All the way mark iv stopped at 7grand as my arse can't take it lol iv not felt any power loss higher up
Lost my mo jo with the 5 at the min.. What's my next move? What can I do next to chase the pod times? Told you I get bored easily :) need something to be cracking on with for not too much money...
weight saving....cold air feed
It's my daily so I'm not really into stripping it out just yet maybe next year. It will be off the road and purely a toy then. I think I still need to change the Timing but I'm not looking forward to that with the engine in the car..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Walker
If your waterpumps not long been put on then id be tempted to take that off.... made it so much easier. but it is possible in situ. i did it by lining the gearbox flywheel mark up on the timing hole on the box, and moved the crank xx degrees once the vernier was loose obviously you have to make sure the chain is tight which ever way your doing it. it only needs to be moved a tiny bit. best to get used to moving it before you slack the vernier off.
Sounds like a plan as I have a few gaskets for the water pump. So 0 on the gearbox and move the vernier anticlockwise 2degrees we should be golden?
theres a big gap between 0/ 5 / 8 degrees so its easier to do 2 degrees between the 5 and 8. make sure you figure out which way your turning it, im geussing your advancing the timing? if so you need to rotate the crank anti clock wise with the vernier loose.
Before loosening the vernier check the tension is on the tensioner side,this will prob push the tensioner in a bit.
From 112 to 110 not that I want to spin the wheels but I can't anyway if that makes sense.. The cars great 60mph + **** down below that
2nd gear should pull well. i cant see any harm trying the timing :D, ive just retarded mine 2 degrees gave it a quick spin and felt great but not driven enough to tell any difference..... allways feels great when you'v not driven it for a few weeks lol
This method aint accurate enough mate, you need a timing wheel and dti to get the cam dialled in properly. Using the marks on the box is pure guesswork.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Walker
i would agree if you were setting it to a specific value, but to tweek it i think its acceptable. untill you've adjusted it once you dont know how it affects the delivery with a certain amount of degrees anyway.
i mean if he adjusts it 2 degrees but actually it moves 3 it doesnt really matter so long as hes happy with the delivery the cam then produces..... from my fiddling i think 3 degrees roughly changes the delivery by 500rpm.
once youve adjusted it and tightened vernier obviously turn the engine over clockwise to check valve clearance before building back up.
The question is though Tony how do you know that you have moved it 2degrees? For all you know it might be any range between 2-10+ degrees? Engine builders don't use dti gauges for nothing.
To degree a cam properly you need a piston stop, dti and timing wheel all day long. Otherwise its pure guess work.
those marks where there to set the original ignition timing up with a strobe so the 8 degrees it shows should be 8 ish degrees, maybe it is 10 degrees but your only moving it a small amount between that 8 degrees, so i cant imagine youd get it much more than 2degrees wrong from the amount you'd want.
im not saying set it up at this degree then set the maximum valve lift at this amount. if your timing it up for the first time then it needs to be much more accurate and timed with a dti and a protractor timing wheel. but he has timed it up and doesnt like the delivery so imo advancing it by 500ish rpm is the way to go, advancing 2 degrees should be easy, but as you say its hard to say if it has gone 2 or maybe 4 but its not going to make a huge difference. either way if he doesnt like it as it is it needs to be changed. but he also doesnt know what he wants it to be really. you can say you want it at 110 or 112 or 114 but in reality no-ones sat down and measured at what point that cam then comes in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigsy
I do agree with what you are saying tho, and you are completely right . Its just a pita to do it that way when it only needs a slight tweeking and it is guess work.
Sounds dodgey to me swinging the cam timing about without knowing whats whats, head thickness, cam type , piston type etc etc.......... Maybe im being over cautious but I would never want to start pissing about without knowing p2v clearances etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs250nut
ok. so what would you suggest? hows he going to measure p2v clearance? hows he going to measure the cam and be sure of absolute tdc and maximum valve lift?
The flywheels probably more accurate for 1 degree than the timing disc as the diameter and the gap between one degree is much greater.
I agree measuring accurately while buildings best but 110-112 might not be best for every engine/driver/modification combination. so all we have in reality is trail and error.
I wouldnt trust the standard timing marks on the 'box whatsoever :laugh:
You use a piston stop to set true tdc with the head on. Then a dti on a pushrod to determine max lift.
thats the point. you dont need tdc im not trying to find that. im trying to move the crank 2 degrees for which those marks are more accurate than a much smaller timing disc.
No way is it more accurate using them markings. The cam wheel has increments of 1 degree.
http://www.cranecams.com/bulletins_listview.php?s_id=5
It also explains the problem with using tdc and maximum lift. there is an error on both cam and crank at the top of each as the lift remains maximum for more than one degree. the crank stays at maximum lift for about 5 degrees maybe more???
the errors in both methods are going to be negligeable and can only be realised once driving. in which case ull have to resort to trial and error.
obviously the mean of the crank throw at tdc has to be found.
Trial and error is no good, it costs to much money when you engine is toast because you pissed about with the cam timing without knowing your clearances first, I do how ever agree with not being fixated on a certain number for your cam timing, if the block has benn decked head skimmed etc all these numbers are out the windowQuote:
Originally Posted by Tony Walker
i agree, with most of that but it all means he has to strip it to bits.
The flywheels going to show a more accurate movement as its a larger diameter. if the timing disc was the same size as the flywheel then yes that would be equally as accurate. look at a protractor.... look at the outside where the figures are its much easier to see the seperate degrees. look towards the center and its difficult to distinguis 10 degrees. im not saying the timing marks are particually good im saying theres less room for error. if the flywheel was 10 foot in diameter you could probably move it to within a 10th of a degree.
Using the marks im not trying to find tdc, they would be useless for that and only a rough guide.
I missed all this convo :) well the 5s coming off the road as of Monday to get it ready for blyton.. The head might have to come off anyway if its not the rad that's mixing my oil and water so I could use a gauge and time the cam. I'm in two minds if it just wouldn't be easier to whip the engine out and sort a few things out at the same time.. Thanks for the comments guys.. Keep them coming :agree:
That's it after 2.5 yrs off headache I've took the 5 off the road :) been my daily for that long now I've had enough and need a break.. I've limited myself to 2hrs a day from now till blyton to get it right.. Engines coming back out change my driveshafts fix the two snapped bolts one in the sump the other in the timing cover re time the bogger and slap it back in. So for me it's back on my bike. Ooh this is going to hurt but will be worth it.. It's been a long hard fight with this 5 I need a break from driving her and she needs a rest from me..
In true French bitch style she had a paddy today first time ever. Ran out of petrol then the throttle cable snapped I had to tie a electric pump wire to it and pull the throttle through the window :) got pulled by the fuzz and all they said was "what are you doing" so I showed them and they said sound mate be careful and left me to it.. The French bitch still got me home lol.. Mrs said what a bag of **** lol.. Think she's had enough too.. My aim is blyton but if it doesn't happen so be it.. Time for a rest..
Still haven't done a dam thing :scratch: what can I do to get the love back? Went to work in the 5 today and I hated every min of it untill a dude in his orange mk1 escort (mint) nodded in passing that gave me a little smile as you don't get that in a focus.. I just can't seem to get the effort together!!