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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
spot on :smokin:
will be going down this route myself next year,02j/m= bigger clutch /flywheel and stronger box is a win win situation :agree:
just the cable shift system that concerns me (engine in the back)
are you using the audi gear stick /selector or something out of the newer renaults:)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HAndy
spot on :smokin:
will be going down this route myself next year,02j/m= bigger clutch /flywheel and stronger box is a win win situation :agree:
just the cable shift system that concerns me (engine in the back)
are you using the audi gear stick /selector or something out of the newer renaults:)
Its an old Golf one I believe but the previous owner modified it to it inside a corrardo's tunnel (made it narrower) so it fitted perfectly in the 5!
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Looks good, I think I may end up going down the VW/Audi box route if mine blows boxes, prob cheaper in the long run... You able to make up adapter plates at all ?
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
5teve L
Looks good, I think I may end up going down the VW/Audi box route if mine blows boxes, prob cheaper in the long run... You able to make up adapter plates at all ?
and the fly wheel spacer?
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
5teve L
Looks good, I think I may end up going down the VW/Audi box route if mine blows boxes, prob cheaper in the long run... You able to make up adapter plates at all ?
Yeah sure... No probs...
Flywheel spacer is a bit harder, I just don't have time to mke them... Can give you a drawing though?
Bit of an update.......
I'm now back to square one, after discovering that the pistons were actually oversize 92.93mm versions I took some advice and decided it would be worth taking the head back off and gapping the rings (something I've never bothered to do in the past) and luckily I did becasue it turns out the instructions from Wossner were incorrect. The instructions said to bore the block to the size on the box which was 82.93mm + 0.01mm. However this size is actually the piston size... So bottom line is the engine has had to come back appart and needs re-honing out.
So I've found a machine shop to do it for me and its all getting dropped off there tomorrow...
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...Square_one.jpg
Big thanks to Scoff for all the help so far, I bet he'll be as glad as me when its built and I stop pestering him :laugh:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quick update, engines back together but I don't want to run VVT on the new engine so I needed a way to modify the standard inlet pulley so It doesn't develop the dreaded rattle.
So I've designed a solid version to replace the std item
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...nlet%20cam.JPG
Then got it made up at work...
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0331.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0332.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0330.jpg
Just modified the design slightly with the lightening holes to ensure the solid version was the same weight as the std pulley.
Hopefully over the weekend I should be able to get the engine finished, back together and mated up to the VW box for fitting! :cool:
Cant wait to get it in the bay!
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Top work mate, how you gonna compensate for the 16 degrees that the VVT gives though?
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
I'm not at this stage mate, on my last setup I didn't run the VVT anyway and it was running standard timing. So in this setup it will just run off VVT all the time.
The plan is to make a vernier pulley and once the engines run in and ready for a few tweaks swap them over!
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ashy
I'm not at this stage mate, on my last setup I didn't run the VVT anyway and it was running standard timing. So in this setup it will just run off VVT all the time.
The plan is to make a vernier pulley and once the engines run in and ready for a few tweaks swap them over!
I actually have a set of catcam vernier pulleys, if you need something to copy :)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
The only problem is there for non VVT cams so if you could use your current design with the added benefit of adjustability it would do away with the need to upgrade to VVT delete cams.
Obviously when using the OE timing tools it will time the cams 16 degrees advanced, so to get it back to a VVT enabled situation your gonna need a minimum of 16 degrees of adjustment.
Heres the ones i have
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_prod...d=2374&appid=2
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SP33DY
My Inlet cam has been VVT deleted mate so wouldn't be a problem. I would just need to change the camshaft oil seal for an Exhaust type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SP33DY
Obviously when using the OE timing tools it will time the cams 16 degrees advanced, so to get it back to a VVT enabled situation your gonna need a minimum of 16 degrees of adjustment.
Eh, I hought setting the timing with the std tools would set the timing at 0 deg. My understanding was that once the VVT was activated it gave you 16 degrees advance.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Nope mate, the inlet cam with the VVT deactivated is 16 degrees advanced, only with enough oil pressure and >1700rpm does the dephaser solenoid activate retarding the inlet cam by 16 degrees.
Heres a link to catcams profiles look at the info bit
http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
You learn something new every day!
Why do people use yellow text on white background?!?
You can't fcuking read it!!!
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Just clicked that link and its a dudd, heres the info cut and paste
information & important remarks:
#The VVT system on the intake camshaft changes the cam timing (and so the lift at TDC):
- 1st intake valve: 124° (disengaged) // 108° (engaged)
- 2nd intake valve: 128° (disengaged) // 112° (engaged)
- 1st exhaust valve: 108° (no VVT)
- 2nd exhaust valve: 104° (no VVT)
Please make sure there is enough distance between valve and piston when the VVT system is engaged.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Yes, the timing is a bit odd in the VVT off position but actually it can work quite well with the turbo and higher boost. Advancing the inlet back toward the VVT "on" position brings mid range up a lot but you end up with a slight lope at idle.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SP33DY
The only problem is there for non VVT cams so if you could use your current design with the added benefit of adjustability it would do away with the need to upgrade to VVT delete cams.
Obviously when using the OE timing tools it will time the cams 16 degrees advanced, so to get it back to a VVT enabled situation your gonna need a minimum of 16 degrees of adjustment.
Heres the ones i have
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_prod...d=2374&appid=2
You wont be selling them to me now i guess!:crap::coffee:
:D
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SP33DY
Nope mate, the inlet cam with the VVT deactivated is 16 degrees advanced, only with enough oil pressure and >1700rpm does the dephaser solenoid activate retarding the inlet cam by 16 degrees.
Heres a link to catcams profiles look at the info bit
http://www.catcams.be/800x600/mainframe.htm?english
the number 5 is a majic number!:D
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
the standard timing position is 16 deg retarded and the VVT advances the cam 16 deg. When I measure the cams it's relative to the straight across installed position.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew Cooke
the standard timing position is 16 deg retarded and the VVT advances the cam 16 deg. When I measure the cams it's relative to the straight across installed position.
So was I right?! :scratch:
Heres a few pics of my VVT delete setup.
The oil ways in the end of the cam that feed the pulley measure 3.8mm dia. So I god some stainless pins ground to 3.83mm dia with a slight lead in. They were a nice tight fit and pressed nicely into position.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0333.jpg
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0338.jpg
Then the pulley bolt needed to be plugged. The bore was 5mm dia, perfect for tapping M6. So once it was tapped a stainless steel grub screw was lock-tighted in place.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0339.jpg
Bolted up, just need to fit shorter M6 bolts.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0345.jpg
So now its time to get stuck into it in the garage. See how far we get today :)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Nope mate it's how I explained I just got my advances and retards round the wrong way round :confused:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
I was just about to say that I thought Steve was getting his advance/retard mixed - easily done...
basically, if you want it in the low overlap position time the cams straight across as per the manual.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Got quite a bit done today...
Front Subframe, powder coated and polybushed.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0350.jpg
Engine built up and VW box adaptor plate fitted.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0352.jpg
Flywheel bolted.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0357.jpg
This is how she stands now, ready for the box to be fitted tomorrow.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0358.jpg
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Good days graft today, engines now in.
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0367.jpg
http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/172/DSC_0369.jpg
Trouble is the old exhaust manifold now fouls the gear selector. Looks like I'm gona need to build a new exhaust manifold and downpipe... The question is do I update the turbo whilst I'm on?!?
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
What a great project this is. :agree:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Looks Fabulous Ashy! :niceone:
The colour looks bright orange in these latest pictures? Is it the picture or is the car orange?
Just looking at your Brake Servo, it doesn't look like a 5 unit? Is it a larger one off something else?
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
that orange paint looks great
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Haha, orange paint!! Nah its just the pictures, it does look red in the flesh!
The brake servo is from a 172 / 182 it fits perfectly and its much bigger than the Gtt one :)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Small update this week...
New brakes turned up :cool: Was supprised how big the calipers were... Just need to get the front end built up then I can try them on :)
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0427.jpg
Also new turbo arrived... So I can start building my manifold, here it is in the bay on my fixture so I can get the position right then transfer it onto a spare head to build it up...
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0435.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0436.jpg
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0437.jpg
Got a weeks holiday coming up so hopefully Ill break the back of it then :)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
nice looking turbo:)
when you're bored of it throw it my way :cool:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
immense work! nice tubby is it a gt35?
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
New GAZ Coilovers fitted and Hi-Spec Brakes :)
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...s/DSC_0438.jpg
I was worried that the drive shafts would need to be modified as my gearbox sits differently to Scoff's old one... But they fit like a glove! Mint.
My steering rack is away being re-conditioned, due back Wed / Thurs so then I should be able to drop it down and roll it around! :cool:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Getting there mate, I might have pop down next weekend and have a gander.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Few nice bits of engineering there Ashy, good man :agree: :)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Next up, Steering Rack...
Thanks to Phil G for putting me in touch with Quick Start who carried out the reconditioning of my rack... Dropped it of last sat and got the call to say it was ready today!
Looks spot on, just goto get round to fitting it now :)
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ing%20rack.jpg
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Took my last few lieu days this week to get some garage time in and try to get this project moving. The biggest task is to build a new exhaust manifold and downpipe, so with 2x172 manifolds cut into bits a chop saw, grinder and welder at the ready I was all set.
Old engine setup as fixture.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ne/fixture.jpg
First Attempt - but the second runner wasn't right, I wanted to make the runners equal lengths (within reason). The other 3 measured 500 - 550mm each and this one was just 350mm so decided to re-hash it.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/IMAG0281.jpg
Didn't get many pics of the other stages - heres the runners all welded up.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...gine/tubes.jpg
All tacked up in position.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...acked%20up.jpg
Rear View
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...cked%20up1.jpg
Manifold complete
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...20manifold.jpg
Manifold in position -
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ani%20rear.jpg
The reason for putting the turbo on an angle is to give as much room as possible at the back for the down pipe... Thats the plan anyway?!
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
:eek: Noodle Doodle!!
Nice job Ashy :niceone:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Nice one marrow. Looks very good. How come you divided the runners? you fancying twin scroll soon!:D
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
love the mainfold, great work, no probs on the rack, happy to help :)
If weather is good sunday i might have a run down, im going to bend your ear to make me a manifold to lol :D
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
really great build,should be awsome power output to:cool:
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Great build ... well in matey :)
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
There is some serious mechanical talent in this place.
You all a bunch of ugly funts - but gifted with a spanner.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Great work :agree:
Quick question, why does the engine look to be slightly angled down (cam belt end)? Or is it just the pics..
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Reed
Great work :agree:
Quick question, why does the engine look to be slightly angled down (cam belt end)? Or is it just the pics..
Yeah it is, its just the way it worked out with the new mounts on the gearbox end.. I built it slightly high expecting the mounts to give a bit more than they did... I'm not too bothered at this stage but may pack up the top mount to level it out if needed.
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Re: R5 - 172 Turbo Project **Updated**
Quick update, managed to get a few hours in the garage over Christmas and got quite a bit done. THe plan was to build a 3" downpipe, side exit and fit my external wastegate!
So here goes...
Starting on the downpipe elbow.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0486.JPG
Finished Downpipe
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0487.JPG
Another Angle
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0488.JPG
Downpipe fitted.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0491.JPG
External Wastegate fitted
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0554.JPG
Another Angle
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0550.JPG
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...e/DSC_0557.JPG
Just need to shot blast the inside of the manifold to clean any loose debris out and I can then heat wrap and fit them. :)