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No idea, I don't know about the standard colours or plug numbers. All I have are ECU wiring diagrams so he simply needs to do those very basic tests I mentioned and go from there ;)
Regards yellow alt wire, I can't be sure there is power on this wire during cranking ? As I say, there are 2 ignition live circuits. He must wire to the one that has a live during cranking, IE the yellow wire that used to go to the AEI module.
Understood;) peace out :smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
phil you faggot, you should of just wired the fecker up like a told you too. :cooter:
Get these tests done.:agree:
Hope this helps phil.:)
Have i missed anything Chris?
looks good to me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TrixNFlix
check the relay 85 to pin 17 on the ecu to, should be live with ign on, earth when cranking
thanks guys i will pass this info on :)
Thanks again guys, Dave has had a look at this thread and is happy with all that has been said, he has tested all off the above and everything is as it should be.
we still have a triggering issue between the two ecs.
Im not sure if you guys remember a few months back, i was not sure if i had a rich modded ecu on an old post. It turns out the chip i though was the richmod was not and not related.
It may be this is what is causing me problems. When i bought the volvo it was a runner but very bad on tick over. Maybe the car has just had some underline problems right from the start.
Andy has kindly offered to send me wiring harness and ecus, to rule things out, so will go from there.
Dave is still after wave forms from the crank if anyone has one, we know of a guy who has a volvo 440turbo local so may be able to get it of his car.
I will keep you updated :)
Phil, does your ignition module come from the same car that your loom came from ?
There are differences. Some ECU's use pin 5 for ignition supply, others pin 6. Some ECU's have these 2 pins bridged internally so that they work on either loom. Some don't.
If your ECU did not come from the same car as the loom then you should look inside the module and check that pins 5 and 6 are soldered together. If not, solder them up. :)
They did come with the car, there was a spare ecu with the car but it the silver one, which we have also tried on there.
I see, worth a shot. I guess the 2 relays are doing what they should ? The first should come on with the key, the other should click in while cranking. If they're working then it's pretty safe to say the fuel ECU is running, so you should look at the ignition module or the linking of the 2.
what is happening is pin 17 from ing computer loses its pulse at the same time as the ground is relesed from pin 17 of the fuel computor :scared: daves words :D
edit - sorry, I mis read your last post, you're saying the pulse train disapears off the ignition module and then pin 17 is released.Quote:
Originally Posted by philg
Yes, that bit is normal but the pulse should not be disapearing from pin 17 of the ignition computer.
I guess the TDC is been double checked / different sensor tried and that the flywheel is still a 60-2 bosch ?
I think that on some looms the rev counter wire comes from that pin 17 <-> pin 1 wire also. Could the tacho, or it's wiring be pulling that line down ? IE, try disconnecting the tachometer wire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
brand new tdc sensor was fitted on the second day off hell as this was daves 1st thought.
As for flywheel, it is the one out of the car but it has been lightened and balanced
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
Tachometer, that is the revs?
Thats not connected yet.
phil
pics
Tacho = revs, yes. Not connected, then I'm all out of ideas. Think I'd be checking loom connections one by one and trying new ECU's now.
I can't see the trigger teeth on that flywheel. Was it a volvo flywheel ?
Chris I'm probably going to need a ecu deristricting aswell, i had wanted to just get the car running put 1000 miles on her then start messing with mods.
Do you have any in stock and i guess its an exchange thing, not that you will want this thing of mine back lol :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
im guessing so, it came out the car, should it look different?
Normally I just modify the existing one phil since we know that it (in normal ciscumstances!) is working with the engine. I have some spare working ingition modules though.
Andy has offered to send me both modules to try and plug in, so hopefully that will do it.
It should have 58 teeth and 2 missing at about 80deg after the sensor with the engine @ TDC.Quote:
Originally Posted by philg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
Lets see if we get it running with andys, then we can talk chris, you have me worried about the flywheel now :scared::)
Phil, have you got any pics of the other side of the flywheel, so we can count some teeth, just so thats another scenario out of the way.:D
here you go
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrixNFlix
no sorry, if that is my problem and i have to take the engine back out :mad:
Chris seems to be thinking along the same lines as my mate dave, so happy with that.
phil
have you managed to sort this problem out matey??
Andy sent me 2 ecus to try, i should have a new coil today to, lots of fingers crossed.
My mate dave has been speaking to someone about the ecus. What i did was take the black one apart to check for a rich mod months ago, i did this in the living room on the floor, i was very careful not to touch things. Now what dave has said i may have broken the ecu buy doing it on the carpet due to static, apparently is a no no to do this and some people even remove shoes and shocks when working on them.
Its a long shot but hey :)
Ecus in and a new coil, still not going.
Sick as feck if im being honnest, do not know where to go with it now.
My man dave is going to do a full test on the wiring next, im still concerened why the fuel pump is priming the wrong way round.
AAARRRRHHHHH :cry:
I have been checking the wiring today for any signs of damage, whilst doing this i did these check again myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
Right i have had a good check over things today.
putting my multimeter on
pin 18 im getting 12v on ignition and 10v while cranking
on pin 6 im getting the same 12v and 10v on cranking
pins 5 11 and 25 are all getting 0.04v on ignition and 0.20 on crank
Are these all ok?
dont mean to insult you or anything like that but have u got the ecu's plugged in the right way round. i had this problem and the fuel pump only primed after cranking. i didnt realise both connectors are the same. worth a try!
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamwallace1989
I had pondered over this to, checked back to Andys diagram and the ignition ecu is on the longest point off the harness, but have tried them the other way to :)
Within tolerance I'd say :)Quote:
Originally Posted by philg
Phil, re the pico plot that dave has taken, am I right in saying that the green channel is the crank sensor, blue is pin 17 of the fuel ECU and red it the tacho pulse between the 2 modules (17 on ignition computer) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by philg
If so then is the relay really randomly clicking in and out while cranking as the plot suggests ?
If that's the case then maybe there is not enough amplitude from the crank sensor. I don't know why that would be but you could try shoving the crank sensor closer to the flywheel (remove one of the 2 bolts, slacken the other, push the sensor down, tighten the remaining bolt so that it's held tightly with only one bolt)
4v peak to peak seems like not a lot, even for cranking speeds. Maybe the ignition computer isn't sensitive enough to see it.
also, it's a bit hard to see at that time base but it looks like there is only 3.5 revolutions of the crank per 2 seconds on that grid, so that's a crank speed of only 105rpm. I would hope for 200rpm or more. It's widely accepted that the volvo system needs a good strong crank speed before it'll work.
A low crank speed would also account for a lower than normal crank sensor output.
b18ft clio i was doing this weekend wouldnt start due to cranking too slowly...... easy too overlook the basics sometimes :scratch:
Thanks guys i will pass this on to dave.
I will give the crank sensor thing a go :)
phil
Thats bang on dave says, i have tried the bolts and no joy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff
He has checked this aswell he opened the graph up on his laptop, used a ruler point to point and is given 216rpm, which he says is a bit low but we had been draining the battery all day before the graph was taken.
He still keeps coming back to the crank sensor to, he has even said that the new one i bought could be faulty to, it was not a genuine volvo part.
He is suggesting taking a new graph on a fresh battery, or even bumping the car to get a better crank.
I know we're going right back to basics here, but the wheel is definately 60-2 ?
yeah im sure chris, he counted the teeth of one of the graphs he had for my car.
Andy is sending me his spare harness to, so a quick plug in should rule wiring out.
What is puzzling him is the 1st day on the car, it had very little signs of life, then the second day, it was turning and trying to fire, nothing had been changed we found it bizzare, that day it started for 5 secs or so. Then the 3rd day on it, its back to the way it was with very bad signals.
He is convinced i had been messing between day 2 and 3, but i had not. Day 2 it ran for 5 seconds or so, i was on the phone to rtoc/dangerous dave at the time, i had a fuel pipe split on the fuel line go in while running, so i knocked the engine straight off, then chopped an inch of the fuel pipe off and put it back on, it was at that point the car will turn but not sound like its trying to fire. Then day 3 which is when dave took the graph, with loads of things not playing ball.
Update guys
Dave messed on with my car he pushed it forward to check to see if ecus were getting better signals. He was certain that the car looked good and would more than likely bump start. Bumping is cheating he said :)
I have now fitted a larger battery with much higher amps than the one i took of the campus, and fitted a new starter.
It took a bit of persuading but it ran yesterday :D I gave it a good charge last night and its ran about 5-6 times today even drove it down the street and back.
It does run a bit bad, very lumpy, so next is to check for air leaks.
Is there preferred method for setting up throttle body and fuel pressure regulator.
I read that the fuel pressure reg should be at 3 bar when off and 2.5 when engine on, would the apply to a car running more boost to? Remember I'm just running the standard t2 for now and plan on running 14-16psi after engine has done some miles.
phil
i found that my car runs nicer at nearer 3bar with the engine running. if you loosen the throttle position sensor and turn it till you hear/feel a slight click (with the butterfly closed) thats where the sensor should be. Also if you have used the wiring that andy had its the purple wire off the r5 loom (purple and yellow wires in a clip) that goes to the alt not the yellow;) if you take the maf sensor off when the engine is running and it smoothes out then you most prob have an air leak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
Yeah spotted that with the wire.
Could you explain how to do the throttle position sensor. Im guessing its the plug that goes onto the throttle body, which way does it turn? Pics would be nice :)
Also do i need something to set the car to 3 bar when running and how is that done?
I will try disconnecting the maf sensor to.
sorry, but never done this before, thanks phil
tps is bolted to the tb it has slight adjustment undo the screws slightly and turn it the way to close the butterfly (actual butterfly will be all ready closed) until you hear a click then do up the screws. fuel pressure do you have a gauge? get the pump running with engine off (live from batt to pump) and set the regulator to 3bar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
I dont see anyway of adjusting it to 3 bar, how is that done?
thanks phil
if you dont have an adjustable fuel regulator then you cant and dont need to.
We adjusted the throttle till it clicks just on open, thanks for that.
We checked my fuel pump and it is a standard gt turbo pump. We tested it for pressure it was only producing 1.5 bar at the rail and we had no fuel coming from the return. According to the Volvo Haynes it needs about 3.5 bar, so its right down.
How many guys have had there cars running OK with the standard gt pump, i know i read there OK up to about 14psi of boost, but surly on idle the car should be OK to run?
The car has got orange injectors t5's i believe, would this affect the car on tick over?
I have spoken to Andy and will be buying a walbro pump, replacing the lines to, a job i had hoped to do over the winter.
We did manage to get the revs working OK, we tried running it of pin 8 on the clocks but did not work, so we ran the Volvo blue/brown wire straight to the - on the coil, works great.
Speedo was also not so straight forward, im begining to realise that with this car nothing is :), anyway the gt speedo wire was connected up to the sensor from the Volvo box. This i was told would work either way round. We could only get it to run on my car by connecting the silver wires together, the red with the yel and the white with the brown. Just for anyone else doing this ;)