coilovers and mot

you get a coil over kit to lower your car . you lower it say ,
50mm ,comes the mot time the car gets jacked up
and obviously without the weight of the car on the system
piston rod lifts up leaving the coil loose .
seeing this the mot man says "coil springs not correctly located"

now i understand this may cause trouble with standard type suspension
but with coil overs the coil cant really go anywhere .
so i ask you , are coilover systems really dangerous/illegal
or are the mot testers missing the point :confused:

you should have helper springs in the coilovers to stop that from happening.

If there coilovers just wind em up for the MOT and wind em down again aftwards

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Originally Posted by car.crash

you should have helper springs in the coilovers to stop that from happening.

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how are you supposed to go that low with helper springs though mate.

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Originally Posted by Os8472

If there coilovers just wind em up for the MOT and wind em down again aftwards

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thats exactly what i am doing but thats quite dishonest imo and still does not
answer the question .
something is either good or bad , which one is it ?? :confused:

i had this prob i just swaped them over i also thought i was missing a spring from them. think next time i will just wind them back up next time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schakal

thats exactly what i am doing but thats quite dishonest imo and still does not
answer the question .
something is either good or bad , which one is it ?? :confused:

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You sound like you don't adjust your carb settings before an MOT to pass the emissions test then retune for power afterwards

They are just weak springs that stop the other springs rattling mate.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...id=575,504,587

wont fail the mot any way unless there likely to become displaced which there not are they :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Os8472

You sound like you don't adjust your carb settings before an MOT to pass the emissions test then retune for power afterwards

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i cant see the relation ?? unless a power tuned carb has
a tendency to blow up and hurt someone ?? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Schakal

i cant see the relation ?? unless a power tuned carb has
a tendency to blow up and hurt someone ?? :rolleyes:

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i think he means like, some one putting the cat back in the exhaust system so it'll pass, then taking it out when they get home?

in other words, just ''adjusting'' the car to meet their requirements.

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Originally Posted by scratcher

i think he means like, some one putting the cat back in the exhaust system so it'll pass, then taking it out when they get home?

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i totally understand that mate .

let me put it this way , if you take a cat off after mot all you are doing is
to blow higher emissions to the atmosphere . same with the carb example
no direct danger !!

but this stuff with the coilovers sound to me as a direct danger warning on an offical mot fail sheet .
i.e : coils are not located correctly ,which may eventually cause an accident at speed etc.
hence , they are not related in anyway or form cause the severity levels are
way far from eachother .


btw i am not trying to say there is anything wrong with coilover setups .
in fact i have driven my car with springs slightly shorter than shocks in my time
and even that way i never had problems , i am just trying to figure out where do mot testers get this idea from ,thats all .

Get a set of helper springs, only cheap. wind them up for the retest for now.

If you drill the cup they sit on and use a tie wrap to hold them in place, thats an MOT pass.

Worked for me anyways!:laugh:

My coilover springs have never left their position, even being wound down to the max. Which brand are you using?

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Originally Posted by Adam L

My coilover springs have never left their position, even being wound down to the max. Which brand are you using?

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what you mean they dont get loose when the car is jacked up ??

i am using coilovers made by myself , could not find affordable
of the shelf stuff for a renault 9


http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/S8003206.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/S8003433.jpg

schakal, i remember you posting up on the old site when you made these, any chance that you still got the pics of building them? i recall you did something with water to help cool while welding? cutting the shocks?
where did you buy all the bits for the coilover conversion?

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Originally Posted by Schakal

what you mean they dont get loose when the car is jacked up ??

i am using coilovers made by myself , could not find affordable
of the shelf stuff for a renault 9

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They just don't get loose (as in the spring), I can unbolt them from the strut as if they were regular shocks, like they should do.

I remember the thread you posted about making these now. You didn't do too badly.

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Originally Posted by raj

schakal, i remember you posting up on the old site when you made these, any chance that you still got the pics of building them? i recall you did something with water to help cool while welding? cutting the shocks?
where did you buy all the bits for the coilover conversion?

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the website that was on is dead for long time now :(
i will try and find out the post or make a new one if i still have the pics in my
photo bucket . there is no welding on the actual shock absorber though (gas shocks are nasty ) the threaded sleeves are welded on to another sleeve that slides over to the
shock body ,i used water cooling while grinding the standard spring bottom cups
from the shock absorber .

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/S8003183.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...agall-0008.jpg


adam ,these are the same type mate ,they got no chance of getting loose unless
you manage to lift both frot wheels off the ground . even than the coils as you see on the pics can only go back to where they belong . so there is no chance of dislocation really .

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Originally Posted by Adam L

My coilover springs have never left their position, even being wound down to the max. Which brand are you using?

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I have a similar problem with the gaz kit on my 5, the spring is dislocating! At the moment it is 18 threads from the bottom thread and i want to lower it further, but with the spring dislocating itself i'm reluctant to do so, would like to solve that first.

mine are as low as they will go on my coilovers and ive never had a problem with m.o.t`s..... its booked in for friday comin so hopefully it will pass again :scared::D

dont think theres any slack in mine even when lifted up.....

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...DSC00678-1.jpghttp://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...1/DSC00677.jpg

This is no dig at your craftmanship Shack, but even on the lowest setting, coilover springs should stay in position with no weight on them... even those without helper springs.

If a manufactured pair are doing it, i'd say the springs need replacing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiny Tim

This is no dig at your craftmanship Shack, but even on the lowest setting, coilover springs should stay in position with no weight on them... even those without helper springs.

If a manufactured pair are doing it, i'd say the springs need replacing.

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My kit is only 6 months old and covered less than 2000 miles. So the springs shouldn't need replacing. :crap:

where did you get the bits to make the coilovers?

i have this problem i noticed it when i fitted the coilovers that the spring was moving about but since i screwed it to 50mm that i want and jacked up the car they dont seem to be moving but since the iom test is well stricter than the english mot i might get some of them helper spring things it shouldnt move when lowered 50mm well mine doesnt seem to :scratch: but any higher up than 50mm it would do it

my Gaz coilover do it...

jack the car up and the damper holds the spring in place, but if you pull the wheel down and extend the damper the spring comes loose.. i dont think it could ever happen on road so not worried about it, my mot guy was ok with it but helper springs might be fitted in the future just incase:)

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Originally Posted by dangerous dave

my Gaz coilover do it...

jack the car up and the damper holds the spring in place, but if you pull the wheel down and extend the damper the spring comes loose.. i dont think it could ever happen on road so not worried about it, my mot guy was ok with it but helper springs might be fitted in the future just incase:)

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My gaz coilovers do the same, although when i jack the car up the spring comes loose. i think on tight corners the spring becomes dislocated, and i doubt the spring will reposition itself. I'm gonna contact bob at cgb as he supplied me the kit. Don't want to spend more money on helper springs if it ain't gonna solve the problem. Already spent nearly a 100 quid getting spacers so the leg would clear the tyre. :(

yer mine are also gaz must be a problem with that make :cry:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dangerous dave

my Gaz coilover do it...

jack the car up and the damper holds the spring in place, but if you pull the wheel down and extend the damper the spring comes loose.. i dont think it could ever happen on road so not worried about it, my mot guy was ok with it but helper springs might be fitted in the future just incase:)

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Mine dont and my car is quite low

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Originally Posted by rs250nut

Mine dont and my car is quite low

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yer i found anything lower than 50mm it wont do it but say if u wanted 40 mm
it would move round like a beaver down ur pants :wasntme:

my avo's dont move either i believe and i'd say i hve a pretty fair drop at the front

Phoned Gaz shocks today and explained the problem, they asked me to set the height i want them to be at and send them down so they can shorten the stroke. :)

quick question on this aswell, i've got a set of gaz front coilovers and bought them secondhand. theres only one nut on the coilover which the spring sits on and you wind it up and down to adjust the height, but should there be another nut underneath to hold it in place? as it is once the weights on the spring it appears to be solid and not move but just wondered if anyone can shed any light on it and confirm??

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Originally Posted by FurioKid

quick question on this aswell, i've got a set of gaz front coilovers and bought them secondhand. theres only one nut on the coilover which the spring sits on and you wind it up and down to adjust the height, but should there be another nut underneath to hold it in place? as it is once the weights on the spring it appears to be solid and not move but just wondered if anyone can shed any light on it and confirm??

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ill try and help i bought a second hand set of coilovers gaz and no they dont
have a second nut to hold them in place theres the big nut you turn ither up or down depending on how high low you want etc.
and on that nut there should be a hole in it a little tiny hole and in the hole there should be like a little screw thing you tighten with a allen key that locks the big nut in place to stop it moveing hope that helps :)

That'll be where my problem is then, i think the allen key bolts are missing, do you know what thread they are? If so i'll just use a couple of normal bolts and just make sure they don't catch

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Originally Posted by Rusty

Phoned Gaz shocks today and explained the problem, they asked me to set the height i want them to be at and send them down so they can shorten the stroke. :)

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once they shorten the stroke (piston rod length ) you will not be able to higher the
car anymore though ,which again chuck the idea of coilovers out the window imo .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiny Tim

This is no dig at your craftmanship Shack, but even on the lowest setting, coilover springs should stay in position with no weight on them... even those without helper springs.

If a manufactured pair are doing it, i'd say the springs need replacing.

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please explain this to me ??
cause i cant see it happening unless you
got some nasa spec adjustable length piston rod setup :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FurioKid

That'll be where my problem is then, i think the allen key bolts are missing, do you know what thread they are? If so i'll just use a couple of normal bolts and just make sure they don't catch

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not sure what thread size they are its v small any way i just got my coilovers refurbed and they gave me new screws so if you fone up gaz am sure they will be able to sell you sum there only cheap might as well get the proper parts as i dought ull get something that small

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schakal

please explain this to me ??
cause i cant see it happening unless you
got some nasa spec adjustable length piston rod setup :rolleyes:

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well i i just got my coil overs from gaz refurbed and the springs checked and it was all fine yet if its higher than 50mm it would still move about only way u could fix it is get much longer springs

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Originally Posted by mightymanx

well i i just got my coil overs from gaz refurbed and the springs checked and it was all fine yet if its higher than 50mm it would still move about only way u could fix it is get much longer springs

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errrm longer springs will higher the car , the problem occures
while you are dropping it :rolleyes:

only way to fix this is to get a desired drop on your coilovers with the
piston rod machined to match and leave it that way .

or a manufacturer will have to come up with a shock absorber
that has a scew on piston rod where you can change length depending on
what height you want along with spring .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schakal

please explain this to me ??
cause i cant see it happening unless you
got some nasa spec adjustable length piston rod setup :rolleyes:

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What's with the constant attitude sunshine?

Put it this way, of the coilovers i've had experience with; Bilstein, Tein, Avo - not ONE set has had helper springs, and when not under load, the springs have stayed in place.

I dont have an answer for these Gaz owners who's springs become lose whilst not under load, but why would a large manufacturer like Gaz produce coilovers that are going to fail MOT's? Explain that one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FurioKid

quick question on this aswell, i've got a set of gaz front coilovers and bought them secondhand. theres only one nut on the coilover which the spring sits on and you wind it up and down to adjust the height, but should there be another nut underneath to hold it in place? as it is once the weights on the spring it appears to be solid and not move but just wondered if anyone can shed any light on it and confirm??

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Generally adjustable coilovers will have one of two set-ups regarding the lower platforms - they'll either have two rings you lock together to stop the platform self-adjusting, or they'll have the one ring and as you have described, use a grub screw to hold the platform in place. Generally, the lighter, smaller cars will only have the one platform i've found.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiny Tim

What's with the constant attitude sunshine?

Put it this way, of the coilovers i've had experience with; Bilstein, Tein, Avo - not ONE set has had helper springs, and when not under load, the springs have stayed in place.

I dont have an answer for these Gaz owners who's springs become lose whilst not under load, but why would a large manufacturer like Gaz produce coilovers that are going to fail MOT's? Explain that one.

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what makes you think i have an attitude towards you ? you done something ?

what you are saying about those coilovers seem impossible to me without the
helper springs ,think about it , in the lowest setting you will always have slack in piston rod . its as simple as 2x2 = 4


on the other hand coilover systems are different to most mc pherson systems
in a way that the coils are much narrower and most importantly same diameter all the way through ,hence the slack caused in spring under no load can not cause spring to
fly out of the system where as on standard renault 5 setup there is a possibility
of the top or bottom end of the spring coming out if there is slack (i.e:shorter springs)


the only problem i can see with slack in spring on a coilover setup is that there is
no tension in the spring apart from the one caused by the weight of the car .
TENSION , pushes the wheels on to the tarmac(grip ) ,with no tension the only push
is the weight of the car ,when you lift off ,there is nothing pushing the wheels on to the tarmac .

God this has dragged on a bit...If the springs fall out when jacked up fit helper springs, as the o.e top mount falls to bits...No big deal to sort really:rolleyes:

Yeah, couldnt be arsed to read anymore.


So here's some amusing album covers I found...

http://harryallen.info/wp-content/up...11/poohman.jpg

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Originally Posted by mightymanx

not sure what thread size they are its v small any way i just got my coilovers refurbed and they gave me new screws so if you fone up gaz am sure they will be able to sell you sum there only cheap might as well get the proper parts as i dought ull get something that small

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the bolt thread is 8mm i believe, made up a couple of shortened bolts with washers and when tightened up the spring platforms no longer turn.........sorted :agree: