View Full Version : Tow cars/vans
Im toying with the idea of getting myself a cheap tow car or van and trailer so i was just wondering if anyone with a trailer (for transporting a car) could tell me what kinda engine i would need for a tow car/van? What do u guys use? Im thinking its got to be at least 2.0 litres or it wont have the guts to pull a trailer with my 5 on top? i like the sound of a diesel van at the moment as i can also use that for work during the week but what would be the lowest capacity engine that i could use for towing?.
Thx.
You need to check the towing capacity of any car you look at, otherwise you'll be illegal and if you get pulled over you'll lose your car. I used my Vauxhall Omega, which will take 1700kg's, to tow a Nissan 200sx and I had 50kg's to spare. That's got a 2.5 v6 though, so it didn't have much problem pulling all that weight.
You can't cut corners when towing something, it can be extremely dangerous.
This is a good link regarding the towing weights that Adam was referring to:
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=5719
The dark winter evenings will just fly by for you two :laugh:;)
One of the best all round buys for towing out there at the moment is the big MG ZT-T, basically the sporty 75 estate.
The same diesel engine as the BMW 320, £200 gets it to 170 horses and stupid torque, loads and loads of toys even as standard and pretty good build quality.
It also has a really high tow weight capacity.
Mate of mine runs one and tows light construction plant around with it, and loves the damn thing. A lot more comfort than a van, just as usable with the back seat down, and he got it for not a lot of money at all.
and remember
if you past your test after 1997
you can only tow a trailer with a max weight 750kgs
and I don't care what any of you say that your allowed to tow x of the car's weight etc
as my old man is making a packet teaching people to tow trailers! keep thinking of doing the training so i can make some of this money too!!!
but just to make you feel ever worse! most of them are daddy's girls with their horse boxes and mummy's new range rover sports!!!:scratch: although he does get the odd shrek!!!! LMFAO
olidaviesuk
21-07-2009, 21:26
Far from being completely the whole story..... ;)
as long as the trailer, the car on the trailer and the tow vehicle are less than 3500kg (combined)
AND the tow vehicle weighs more than the combined weight of the trailer and whats on it (the 5) you're all nice and legal... (providing the towing weight of the tow vehicle isn't exceeded)
Thing is a 5 weighs 820kg (wet) and a typical Brian James trailer weighs 450kg - which leaves you with a choice of any car/van/4x4 which weighs between 1300kg & 2000kg to be legal. So you buy a Transit, a Shogun (swb) or a Freelander, give the middle finger to the DVLA and Mr Brown, but unfortunately Moggy's Dad doesn't get your cash... :(
Checked this with the DVLA and the local old bill, and neither had a problem with it being dodgy... just a massive loophole in the rules :) my money was better spent on bits for the 5 as well :agree:
and remember
if you past your test after 1997
you can only tow a trailer with a max weight 750kgs
Penfold aka The Dealer
21-07-2009, 21:41
TBH there are a million loop holes, and the DVLA/DSA/Police as state different advise and different loop holes.
If i got caught i will show my evidence and state what you do??
Technically the best way is to pass your trailer licence - good luck finding a place tho. I am a driving instructor, and i cant find anybody with 150miles who can do it, unless i want to go down the HGV route...
I could use my own trailer and take my own car... but trailer has to be a certain box size, i only have a flat trailer & i cant rent a trailer til i have a trailer licence.... WTF!!
I am not spending £1000's on a box just to do a trialer test.
car.crash
21-07-2009, 22:01
I am not spending £1000's on a box just to do a trialer test.
me neither, not when the fine will only cost 60 quid and a few points :laugh:
Far from being completely the whole story..... ;)
as long as the trailer, the car on the trailer and the tow vehicle are less than 3500kg (combined)
AND the tow vehicle weighs more than the combined weight of the trailer and whats on it (the 5) you're all nice and legal... (providing the towing weight of the tow vehicle isn't exceeded)
Thing is a 5 weighs 820kg (wet) and a typical Brian James trailer weighs 450kg - which leaves you with a choice of any car/van/4x4 which weighs between 1300kg & 2000kg to be legal. So you buy a Transit, a Shogun (swb) or a Freelander, give the middle finger to the DVLA and Mr Brown, but unfortunately Moggy's Dad doesn't get your cash... :(
Checked this with the DVLA and the local old bill, and neither had a problem with it being dodgy... just a massive loophole in the rules :) my money was better spent on bits for the 5 as well :agree:
Very interesting :)
Penfold aka The Dealer
21-07-2009, 22:16
me neither, not when the fine will only cost 60 quid and a few points :laugh:
Thats if you get caught etc etc, and the copper would need to know the law so well...
But going in front of any judge and hand him the paperwork from the DSA & DVLA...see if he can make head or tail of it!
Penfold aka The Dealer
21-07-2009, 22:18
Then you get the law regarding braked/un-brakes trailer... dont even get me started on dolly's, A-Frames and other methods for towing..
loophole, maybe
the fact that if Vosa (the sad gits to sit at the side of the road looking for illegal cars/trucks) get you, they will basically take your car and trailer off you and point you to the bus stop!!!
plus as penfold said, if you ask a judge to make a decision, all the ones in North Wales will side with the police as you don't have a license to tow the trailer - check your driving licence!
to be honest I don't care as it doesn't affect me, as i i've got it on paper that I can legally tow 38T! LOL - Yes once you pass your HGV 1 your licence it states on your licence that you can actually tow 38T! I know my discovery is good but not THAT good! LOL
btw, Oli
Large goods vehicle and passenger carrying vehicle licences held before 1 January 1997
Since 1 January 1997 all drivers who hold category C or D entitlement have been limited to trailers up to 750kgs MAM; Category C+E or D+E must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of this.
Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997
Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.
lift from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564
looks like they've finally decided on what the law is!:wasntme:
I passed my B+E last year. For the amount it cost me, about £700, in lessons and tests ( yes tests, i didnt pass first time!) it really wasnt worth it.
Also the test is an hour and a bit long and basically is the same as the full C+E test ( Class 1 HGV). Which in my humble opinion was a bit OTT. I only missed having the B+E on my license by default by a few months, and its really hard to have an instructor telling you how to drive when I have been driving 10 years!
Which brings me onto my next point, you might as well just do your full class 1 as it wouldnt cost much more and is a lot more usefull plus it automatically gives you the B+E entilitlement when you pass.
olidaviesuk
22-07-2009, 13:27
Yet elsewhere on the site: ;)
Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:
a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
also lifted from.....
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073
I'll give you that about the VOSA people though - not the people to get the wrong side of, and this way is only legal with a small handful of tow vehicles and the fact the 5 is a tiny lightweight car, anything bigger and heavier... no chance!
loophole, maybe
btw, Oli
Large goods vehicle and passenger carrying vehicle licences held before 1 January 1997
Since 1 January 1997 all drivers who hold category C or D entitlement have been limited to trailers up to 750kgs MAM; Category C+E or D+E must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of this.
Car driving licence first obtained since 1 January 1997
Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.
lift from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564
looks like they've finally decided on what the law is!:wasntme:
The new Bill J
22-07-2009, 14:58
I passed my test on the 20th December 1996. So I scraped in just before the changes, which was my goal whilst learning :D
Jono
actually doing your C+E would cost you twice asmuch
as first you would have to do your C licence, and then do your C+E
Oli, its stupid but yes thats the bit that you have to remember that the weight of the whole car and trailer must be under 3.5t.
I was in Vosa today (truck mot) and I asked about it, and they are clamping down this summer around here!! and once it hits the press about north wales police and vosa doing it, everyone will join in!!!:dearme:
I'm going to be doing exactly the same.. towing the five on a trailer.. I'm just buying a MK5 golf tdi (1400kgs) which should just about scrape by..
I've been told VW passats are a good choice as they're based on the Audi A6 chassis and can two 1500kgs with ease
I used a 406 2.1TD with a max towing weight of 1500kgs. Setting off is the hardest part, its easy to fry the clutch, but once on the move it was fine. Diesels are nice and torquey, so you can get moving at little more than tickover. I could maintain a 55-60 just on uphill motorway sections. Though if you were doing this regularily you would need a larger tow vehical.
The most important part is getting the car sat on the trailer properly. It needs to be over the wheels and ever so slightly forward to maintain slight (50kgs) downward pressure on the tow hitch. Get this bit wrong and its damn right dangerous. Too much weight on the hitch lifts the tow vehicals front wheels. So reduced traction if front wheel drive, steering and braking. Not what you want with a heavy trailer!
Oh and I only averaged 20mpg towing!
Gawd..........lol,i thought it was just a case of picking the right size engine that had enough guts to pull a 5 on a trailer.I passed my test in 1996 so i guess i miss those new rules,honestly didnt know about the weight of the "tow car" being important tho,thought it was just about making sure u had enough grunt/big enough engine to pull a trailer so thx everyone for the advice!:coffee::cool:
Andrew Cooke
28-07-2009, 01:33
I had an Astra diesel that was just in for pulling my 5 on a twin axle trailer, but woo was it iffy, the nature of hillclimbing means hills, on my first visit to Shelsley Walsh I picked a bad route, and the combination only just made it up a lane I was on. I was in first, and the revs had dropped to the point where it was almost stalled, I was looking for a tree to roll back into whilst waiting for a tractor - it was that bad, the handbrake would never have held it. Fortunately I made it. I found it couldn't pull the car/trailer around some paddocks, and I got the car stuck in the trailer park without the trailer on the back. I bought the Delica and with low ratio 4wd I've never got close to getting into any of those problems since.
I've had a similar but perhaps not as scary episode with my old Citroen zantia 1.9TD pulling a twin axle with a car on. 1st gear and foot to the floor to get up a hill, very slowly. On a main carrage way too, quite dangerous. 2.0L petrol Mazda 6 these days, much much better.
THE MASTER
28-07-2009, 05:31
i like being old and the owner of a master van
i can tow a trailer
i have tunnes of torque
i might not be 100% legal when the camparse is on the A frame . but im so close it would not be worth the paper work to prove im not . at the end of the day the camparse is a four wheel trailer when it hoocked up not a road car
;)
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