View Full Version : Negative camber issue.!
after moving the car back and forth in and out the garage ive noticed that the n/s front wheel has more negative chamber than the o/s.!! you can barely tell with the o/s but the n/s is clearly visable!
as part of the engine rebuild i replaced the n/s driveshaft,
i basically removed the old shaft,replaced with the new, fixed it back to the hub,tightened,put road wheel back on and tightened some more due to the shaft turning with out the cars weight on the road wheel. i cant remember if i hooked the ball joint,track rod up before tightening the shaft up or before:scratch: does any of that count for anything? could i have made an error somewhere.?
what could over torquing the shaft do.? would this pull the wheel into negative camber and pull the shaft from the gearbox.?
Have you checked the bolt holes where you attach the lower part of the suspension into the top of the hub, the holes are not out of shape ect are they as this will cause this?
Have you checked the bolt holes where you attach the lower part of the suspension into the top of the hub, the holes are not out of shape ect are they as this will cause this?
yes i made sure to check before fitting:agree:
after moving the car back and forth in and out the garage ive noticed that the n/s front wheel has more negative chamber than the o/s.!! you can barely tell with the o/s but the n/s is clearly visable!
as part of the engine rebuild i replaced the n/s driveshaft,
i basically removed the old shaft,replaced with the new, fixed it back to the hub,tightened,put road wheel back on and tightened some more due to the shaft turning with out the cars weight on the road wheel. i cant remember if i hooked the ball joint,track rod up before tightening the shaft up or before:scratch: does any of that count for anything? could i have made an error somewhere.?
what could over torquing the shaft do.? would this pull the wheel into negative camber and pull the shaft from the gearbox.?
any other ideas..?
Pictures please...
Have you got the struts on the correct way...
:cooter:
Pictures please...
Have you got the struts on the correct way...
:cooter:
LOL now your obviously taking the weewee:laugh: is it even possible to fit the strut the wrong way lol:wasntme:.
so what are peoples methods when changing the n/s driveshaft.?
i'll have to take a closer look at it tonight after work.
Andrew Cooke
15-07-2009, 13:06
it won't be anything to do with the driveshaft.
have you fitted new wishbones?
One of the top mounts is probably incorrect.
have you fitted new wishbones?
yes, with poly bushes
One of the top mounts is probably incorrect.
how can i tell the difference.? i know that one is zinced and one is black, but i purchased mine from cgb (recon)and they are both sprayed silver.!
would anyone happen to know if cgb sprays all his top mounts the same colour,just trying to figure out if he may have sent 2 of the same side:crap:.?
Andrew Cooke
15-07-2009, 17:49
yes, with poly bushes
is one off a clio?
Andrew Cooke
15-07-2009, 17:51
how can i tell the difference.? i know that one is zinced and one is black, but i purchased mine from cgb (recon)and they are both sprayed silver.!
would anyone happen to know if cgb sprays all his top mounts the same colour,just trying to figure out if he may have sent 2 of the same side:crap:.?
mixing PH1 and PH2 stuff will give funny cambers, getting PH2 stuff on the wrong side will not change camber, just caster, and you won't see that by eye.
The damper pin should be more towards the screen than the front grill.
ive found i picture of the top mounts i purchased, they dont look wrong to me!
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/TANGO%20REBUILD/r585_w.jpg
just had a thought... maybe i fitted the top mounts to the wrong sides:scratch: but how can i tell if there both the same colour? thanks cgb:crap::rolleyes:
Big Steve - Raider
15-07-2009, 18:00
Are they the Group A or Group N Cableties on your Shocks?? :cartman:
Are they the Group A or Group N Cableties on your Shocks?? :cartman:
im unsure but they look the bollox:uhhuh:... and back to the subject.
Andrew Cooke
15-07-2009, 18:03
im unsure but they look the bollox:uhhuh:... and back to the subject.
the answers are in the replies
anyone got a picture of unpainted ph2 top mounts?
you won't see that by eye.
Disagree matey.
If the mounts are ass about face, or you've fitted the same type to both sides, you will be able to see the difference.
Andrew Cooke
15-07-2009, 18:07
Disagree matey.
If the mounts are ass about face, or you've fitted the same type to both sides, you will be able to see the difference.
by looking at the wheels as reported by raj, or looking the mounts as I suggest doing above? either way they won't change camber.
Assuming the wishbones are ok, swap the top mounts & I'd lay a good bet that that'll sort the problem.
here are the wishbones -
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/TANGO%20REBUILD/r587_w.jpg
O/S top mount in situ -
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/DSC04589.jpg
N/S top mount in situ -
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/DSC04588.jpg
O/S wheel -
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/DSC04585.jpg
N/S wheel (looks alot more neg)-
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/DSC04586.jpg
OH SH1TTT:cry:
Just been out to have a closer look with my bro, 4eyes are better than 2!
reversed the car out the garage a few feet and drove it forward again.
as i was driving it forward, to my horror the engine decided it didnt like being in the engine bay and started shaking VERY violently:eek: absolutely shat me pants:sad:
seem as though the gearbox engine mount has gave way/collapsed:eek: it looks as though the mount to gearbox bolts have just pulled themselves out!! wtf:scratch: i can only assume i must have threaded them when bolting in all back together:cry: SHAT!
at least ive found the problem now eh!
question is.. can it be helicoiled.! i hope so.
**** me, you must've wrenched them on good and tight :laugh:
Also, I think you mean, can you rethread the mounts with a die ? The answer being quite possibly.
:cooter:
Chris Hebden
15-07-2009, 19:45
MATE! If it doesnt rain it poors with you! What caused it to shake, the loose engine mount?
**** me, you must've wrenched them on good and tight :laugh:
Also, I think you mean, can you rethread the mounts with a die ? The answer being quite possibly.
:cooter:
die who what? i thought helicoiling was a good option? doesnt this make the area stronger than it previously was.?:confused:
MATE! If it doesnt rain it poors with you! What caused it to shake, the loose engine mount?
i know mate:sad: just when im soo flappin close to getting it on the road:brickwall:
yes im assuming the mount was just holding on to a few threads as it all looked spot on in the bay, but after starting the engine over time it must have made the bolts shear out.! luckily this didnt happen while i was driving:scared:
errrr:scared: ok so after finding the gearbox mount really close to the side of the engine bay body aswell as the bell housing almost touching the car body it looked like the g.box mount.
well further investigation(just got back in from under the car:rolleyes:) has revealed that all engine mounts are solid:scratch: but the engine looks to be higher on the n/s hence the mount and bell housing being only mm's away from the body.
something didnt tally up to me:scratch:
well found what i can only think made the engine move so violently! the O/S driveshaft knuckles where basically not in situ!! the knuckles had stretched and twisted the gaitor and where half in half out of the metal holder, although the gaitor is still in one piece. :sad2:
abit strange as ive not touched the o/s shaft! im assuming with the car raised off the ground the shaft should still stay in situ within the metal holder on the o/s of the gearbox.?
so it must be this o/s driveshaft not being in situ thats pushed the engine up on the n/s.
new o/s shaft please:rolleyes:
sounds like what happened to me and stu. Got some new wishbones from gsf and they supplied 1 gt turbo and 1 clio. Fitted them to the track5lag and thought nothing of it as it all went back together never really looked that close as the car was off the road at that time and was only pushed back and forth. It wasnt until stu fitted some more identical wishbones from gsf to his car and tried to drive it. The engine tried to escape from the engine bay and he thought he had smashed the gearbox or driveshaft. Its quite difficult to see the difference between the two wishbones as the clio ones are only very slightly longer
this also gave toe out on one side of the car looking from the front
sounds like what happened to me and stu. Got some new wishbones from gsf and they supplied 1 gt turbo and 1 clio. Fitted them to the track5lag and thought nothing of it as it all went back together never really looked that close as the car was off the road at that time and was only pushed back and forth. It wasnt until stu fitted some more identical wishbones from gsf to his car and tried to drive it. The engine tried to escape from the engine bay and he thought he had smashed the gearbox or driveshaft. Its quite difficult to see the difference between the two wishbones as the clio ones are only very slightly longer
thats interesting, however i dont think i have that problem with my wishbones as you can see in the above pic that there the same size.
i think this may have happen when i jacked the gearbox up abit to agle it so i could mate it up to the engine easier. the shaft knuckles must have poped out and not gone home when i lowered the box back down.
ah the joys:crap:
reach around the back of the tyre and feel if the inner edge of the tyre is the same distance away from the strut on both sides.
if they arent - then you either have bent hubs or bent dampers. i have seen both.
THE MASTER
17-07-2009, 00:37
there not clio wishbones they are 11/9 wishbones thats wots wrong . ;)
THE MASTER
17-07-2009, 00:52
[quote=raj;85361]here are the wishbones -
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/TANGO%20REBUILD/r587_w.jpg
have a mesure up on the hole in the centre a gt wishbone measures 32.5 mm from the pimple to the edge of the hole
as you can see the hole in these wishbones are more than 32 mm . that will put the bottom of the hub to far away and the drive shaft will not sit in its inner joint properly
easy when you know how
:p:p:p
reach around the back of the tyre and feel if the inner edge of the tyre is the same distance away from the strut on both sides.
if they arent - then you either have bent hubs or bent dampers. i have seen both.
bloody hell! bent hubs.! never heard of that one before. not heard of bent struts thinking about it:eek:.
[quote=raj;85361]here are the wishbones -
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/TANGO%20REBUILD/r587_w.jpg
have a mesure up on the hole in the centre a gt wishbone measures 32.5 mm from the pimple to the edge of the hole
as you can see the hole in these wishbones are more than 32 mm . that will put the bottom of the hub to far away and the drive shaft will not sit in its inner joint properly
easy when you know how
:p:p:p
lol, colin, how the flippin heck can you tell that the wishbones are 32.5mm:scratch: can you really make out the 5mm in a picture.? you must have some sharp eyes eh master;)
anyway, i think ill undo the o/s hub so i can sent the o/s driveshaft home, as its basically lodged half hanging out of the metal holder part on the gearbox.
hopefull when i send it home it will all pull back together. if not ill have to look at the wishbones,hubs and struts.:rolleyes:
Didn't really want to add my pennies worth being a newb, but the pic of the wheel you posted looked like bent hub up to the strut. But.............
Best way to get to the bottom of this Raj is to strip it down and make sure everything is within spec.
Ball ache I know but hey, needs to be done.
Chris Hebden
17-07-2009, 11:36
Best way to get to the bottom of this Raj is to strip it down and make sure everything is within spec.
Ball ache I know but hey, needs to be done.
:agree: get your vernier out Raj, i agree with the Master that distance of the lower ball joint looks to be far to great. Just checked the pic against the ones on my car
Matt Cole
17-07-2009, 12:57
to me both wheels look to have excessive camber
sod it, a strip down it is then:agree:
just one thing, can anyone tell me where i can get new hub bolts as im assuming you should re-use them.
Chris Hebden
17-07-2009, 15:17
sod it, a strip down it is then:agree:
just one thing, can anyone tell me where i can get new hub bolts as im assuming you should re-use them.
Hub bolts? The two that connect the hub to the damper? You can re-use them as long as you think that the lock nut is in good condition
Hub bolts? The two that connect the hub to the damper? You can re-use them as long as you think that the lock nut is in good condition
no i mean the 2 big driveshaft locknuts. i assume your not suppuse to re-use these? if not, where can i buy these via the web? or alternatively if anyone knows there actual size i can pop down the local fasteners to see if they have any!
Chris Hebden
17-07-2009, 15:34
I think you can, i do if i am taking the shaft out. Take the nut down to the bolt place they should be able to measure it!
hub nut is 30mm Raj.
yes i know that:agree: whats the other size for them? you know when the sizes start with m? m3,m5 etc?
i only ask as the local fasterners ask about what the thread size/pitch is? etc:scratch:
I think you can, i do if i am taking the shaft out. Take the nut down to the bolt place they should be able to measure it!
ok feck it, i'll re-use it:agree: but if my wheels fly off i'll make sure they come rolling down your road:devil:
Chris Hebden
17-07-2009, 15:56
ok feck it, i'll re-use it:agree: but if my wheels fly off i'll make sure they come rolling down your road:devil:
Mate, if your wheels fly off then you havent put something else back together right :cooter: :laugh:! Like i said i re-use mine and make sure there torqued up and never had a problem!
I have reused hub nuts plenty of times, tighten them to the correct torque & they dont come loose.
*Yellow*
17-07-2009, 16:32
I have reused hub nuts plenty of times, tighten them to the correct torque & they dont come loose.
:agree:......... both mine been off fair few times this year for one thing or another.
ok no worries:agree:
anyone got any tips for un-doing these nuts? they were right fiddly when i last took them off as the wheel kept on spinning as i tryed to undo them.
i cant put it into gear and do it that way as the shaft is half hanging out:crap:
My bodge to do this on JRP's car was ram a big flat head screwdriver between the brake disc vents and the caliper and then use a long handled braker bar and stood on the braker bar and used my body weight (11 1/2 stone) with a little bounce and it eventually came undone enough for me to undo it by hand (caliper and brake disc actually survived aswell).
My bodge to do this on JRP's car was ram a big flat head screwdriver between the brake disc vents and the caliper and then use a long handled braker bar and stood on the braker bar and used my body weight (11 1/2 stone) with a little bounce and it eventually came undone enough for me to undo it by hand (caliper and brake disc actually survived aswell).
:agree: I put the wheel bolts back in the hub so the disc retaining screws dont take all the load. If poss undo the hub nut before removing the wheel.
Matt Cole
17-07-2009, 20:58
just blob a bit of loctite on the threads. peace of mind!
THE MASTER
20-07-2009, 00:17
just wondering if i was corect with the wish bones . £10 say i am . or your gonna have to get be a big bottle of vodka
:cool::cooter:
i think my bet is well safe
THE MASTER
20-07-2009, 00:26
My bodge to do this on JRP's car was ram a big flat head screwdriver between the brake disc vents and the caliper and then use a long handled braker bar and stood on the braker bar and used my body weight (11 1/2 stone) with a little bounce and it eventually came undone enough for me to undo it by hand (caliper and brake disc actually survived aswell).
chepo srewdrivers tend to shear . :laugh:
THE MASTER
20-07-2009, 00:33
[quote=THE MASTER;85889]
lol, colin, how the flippin heck can you tell that the wishbones are 32.5mm:scratch: can you really make out the 5mm in a picture.? you must have some sharp eyes eh master;)
anyway, i think ill undo the o/s hub so i can sent the o/s driveshaft home, as its basically lodged half hanging out of the metal holder part on the gearbox.
hopefull when i send it home it will all pull back together. if not ill have to look at the wishbones,hubs and struts.:rolleyes:
your getting me totaly wrong those wishbone in the picky are not for the 5gtt those in the picky are for a 9/11 . i have given you mesurments for the hole for the gt not those in the picky , have another look and measure the hole on the wish bones that are in the picky
THE MASTER
20-07-2009, 00:40
i feel a big bottle of vodka comming my way
:smokin:
and i dont mean a 75. i wont at least 1.0l
ok okaaaay:sad: havent had time to even look at the car.
its my day off tomorrow so will find out soon enough:cooter:
Philclubman
20-07-2009, 18:47
I must agree, the wishbones they have supplied you are not 5 gt turbo ones, have you not got your old ones to compair them too, you will see the triangle hole in the center of the wishbone is much smaller on a 5 wishbone.
Andrew Cooke
20-07-2009, 18:56
compare yours with this one
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2075
compare yours with this one
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2075
bloody hell, mine are wrong then going by that pic! feck!
anyone want a pair of polybushed r9/11 wishbones that havent seen the road.?:sad:
Andrew Cooke
20-07-2009, 19:11
or even
http://www.cgbmotorsport.net/suspension-bottom-wishbone-inc-bushes-and-ball-joint-single-206-p.asp
or even
http://www.cgbmotorsport.net/suspension-bottom-wishbone-inc-bushes-and-ball-joint-single-206-p.asp
ok you can stop now:sad:
anyone recommend a cheap place online to buy a new 5gt set.? im not going back to gsf:disagree: i defo wont get a refund as ive fitted the polys to them.
THE MASTER
20-07-2009, 20:32
just take the wishbones back to gsf without the polly bushes but with the org bushes thay cam with tell them the prob . be nice to them and they should be able to correct the problem . told ya them wishbones were wrong
PS dont forget my vodka
:drunk:
they must be miles out:eek:
ive just stripped all the o/s suspension down and measured the the wishbones from the pimple to the oposite side of the triangle hole and it measured just under 50mm:eek: :scared:
QUICK QUICK:scratch:
im just about to refit the struts, so could someone tell me which strut top goes on which side of the car?
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l284/R5_GTT/TANGO%20REBUILD/r585_w.jpg
Andrew Cooke
16-08-2009, 16:41
didn't you ask this before?
the one on the left goes on the left
didn't you ask this before?
the one on the left goes on the left
drivers left or from the front left?:cooter:
the n/s i take it:), thanks
Andrew Cooke
16-08-2009, 17:21
is your car left or right hand drive?
is your car left or right hand drive?
right! ?
Andrew Cooke
16-08-2009, 18:07
right! ?
cool, so you can work out what left is :D
cool, so you can work out what left is :D
you trying to confuse me?:scratch:
ill stick with what you 1st said:D
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