Starter motor or Seized engine??

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Right guys, I have a problem with 1 of my 5's....

When i got o start the car i get a click click noise (I believe this could be the terminal on the starter or a knacker starter? I have tried rocking the car in gear but no joy...

Also we have tried bump starting the car, but to no joy what so ever... to the point where i was getting a push start by being pulled by a van in 1st or 2nd gear at about 10mph i would bring the cluch up and the front wheels would just lock. (Would this be because of the starter motor maybe stuck in the engage position or do you think its possible my engine has seized... started last about 6 weeks ago?

Any help would be greatfull....

[RichR]

Sounds like the starter motor pinion gear has jammed onto the flywheel, so it can't turn it when you try to start it, and you can't push start it, because the flywheel's jammed. Probably due to a flat battery or poor connection at the connector by the headlight allowing the solenoid to come part way out, but not properly. Or it could be a lack of grease in the solenoid so it's sticking.

Take the starter motor off. You'll probably find the pinion retracts when you loosen the bolts (ie giving it room to come free). Check the starter works properly by clamping it in a vice and applying power to the solenoid tag (body of the starter to negative on the battery)- the pinion should shoot out, but the starter won't turn unless you have run 12V to the main starter terminal as well. Do this next if the solenoid does move the pinion properly.

Then make sure the battery in the car is fully charged, check the connector by the headlights, refit the motor and try again.

[Scoff]

If your worried about a siezed engine then put a 19mm spanner on the bottom pulley and turn it over out of gear, if it turns, its not siezed. If it doesnt turn, take the starter off as Rich says, go from there :)

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

If your worried about a siezed engine then put a 19mm spanner on the bottom pulley and turn it over out of gear, if it turns, its not siezed. If it doesnt turn, take the starter off as Rich says, go from there :)

Right we removed the starter, then removed the plus and got a 19mm spanner on the lower pulley, but it was stuck solid... think its not looking good for the engine.:cry:

Maybe this winter will be a good excuse to go for a reliable rebuild.

[Scoff]

arse, not good.

take all 4 plugs out, squirt lots and lots of plus gas or similar releasing fluid down each hole and leave overnight.

leave the plugs out and try and free it off the next morning. it might take a tow from another car and a quick "up" on the clutch while your in 4th gear but it will probably free itself off. It's most likely the piston rings have rusted to the bores, they'll clean themselves up, usually!

if the bottom end is siezed then its a different story, but, not likely to be this if it was running fine before hand.

[THE MASTER]

Sounds like the starter motor pinion gear has jammed onto the flywheel, so it can't turn it when you try to start it, and you can't push start it, because the flywheel's jammed. Probably due to a flat battery or poor connection at the connector by the headlight allowing the solenoid to come part way out, but not properly. Or it could be a lack of grease in the solenoid so it's sticking.

Take the starter motor off. You'll probably find the pinion retracts when you loosen the bolts (ie giving it room to come free). Check the starter works properly by clamping it in a vice and applying power to the solenoid tag (body of the starter to negative on the battery)- the pinion should shoot out, but the starter won't turn unless you have run 12V to the main starter terminal as well. Do this next if the solenoid does move the pinion properly.

Then make sure the battery in the car is fully charged, check the connector by the headlights, refit the motor and try again.

im sorry rich but that is tottal drivel . a starter motor causing a locked engine I dont think so. there is a one way clutch built into the starter pinion the prevent over spin on the starter when the engine starts up. even if the pinion has stuck in the engaged postion against the fly wheel and the starter has siezed solid there is a third equation the over spin clutch .. and for all three to go wrong at once . i cant see that happening.

shopboy just a few questions
1: when was the last time the engine was turned over???
2: is there any sings of head gask failure????
3: loosen the sump plug is the any water comming out before the oil does ????

as scoff said it could be rusted piston rings

:coffee:

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

shopboy just a few questions
1: when was the last time the engine was turned over??? - 6 week ago
2: is there any sings of head gask failure???? - No signs, no mayor, clean colland and level not dropping etc
3: loosen the sump plug is the any water comming out before the oil does ???? - Will get back to you this afternoon

as scoff said it could be rusted piston rings - Will look into trying the oil idea...

:coffee:[/quote]

[RichR]

I had to free one off on a Pug 306 last month that had the pinion stuck part way out, jammed at a slight angle into the ring gear. The flywheel couldn't rotate because it was trying to turn the pinion at an angle. It turned out that one of the starter mounting bolts was loose, so the it had slipped slightly off centre. It is a possible situation, please don't write it off as guessing or lies, like I don't know how a starter motor works.

Hence I think taking the starter motor off to eliminate it as the cause is still a good idea, just to rule it out.

[THE MASTER]

Rich there is an art to diag
but that also depends on the person that has the problem. the person with the fault needs to answer every question that is asked about the fault
#soory to go off topic slightly.
neaver presume its a fault or a component that has gone fualty.

Rich, RTE's are trained too look at the clues ask questions . if you notice i have not diaged the above prob all ive done is asked questions. and yes i will ask some more questions before i get stuck in with an answer :cool::coffee:

[Ian S]

Shopper has already ruled out by elimination the starter.

So it's the engine.

If it properly lubed then how can it rust after only 6 weeks.

Only if there's water in the bores?

I left a drip of water in a bore once when a head was off. After a few weeks there were a few pits deep enough to require it to be honed. But the hone was a tad too much and it blew past rather when all re-assembled.

[Scoff]

my original reply mentioned water, faulty headgaskets and things, and then when I pressed post the live window lost my typing because of a rubbish piece of javascript I'd added, lol, so after fixing the bug I responded again, without mentioning HG's and stuff.

granted, its not a likely thing to happen but then neither is having a seized engine after 6 weeks. I bet it free's of with a tow and runs ok ;)