View Full Version : Bad paint job and piper cam way out...
Alastair
13-09-2008, 08:54
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I have had a bad week... i collected my car from the body shop 2 weeks ago and it looked amazing - water based paint in French racing blue, with dark blue trim... however since then it has been in my garage and i came home this weekend to find the paint in many places has shrivled up - like your skin does when youve been washing up too long... anyway i am going to take it back but does anyone know what causes this - only the light blue was affected???
Also i have finished rebuilding the engine with a piper 285 and made sure i followed the timing instructions very carefully. We then set the piper potractor onto the pulley and turned the engine over with a DTI guage on No 4 inlet Vv (Haynes says No 1 is flywheel end). Problem is it was at 126 degrees after
dave-sbs
13-09-2008, 08:56
at a guess, the clearcoat has been applied before the waterbase has full dried.
If this is the case, then its all to come off and start again :(
Alastair
13-09-2008, 09:04
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New poster! (less than 10 posts)
I have had a bad week, I collected my car from the body shop 2 weeks ago and it was flawless - water based paint in French Racing Blue, with dark blue trim and white interior. However i came home this weekend to find the paint has crinckled like your skin does when you wash up for too long! Does any one know what causes this? Only the light blue on the body is affeected?
Also I finished rebuilding the engine last week and took great care with timing, but the cam is so far out i thought it best to check... I put a DTI on no 4 inlet Vv (haynes says no 1 = flywheel end) and turned the engine over with a piper protractor on the crank pulley wheel. Anyway the DTI was giving full lift at 126 ATDC on the Vv spring cap - this should have been circa 112 deg. I have heared of piper cams being a bit out but this is loads!!! Have i done it wrong or is this normal for piper?
Help with either of the above much appreciated,
A very frustrated Al.
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Alastair
13-09-2008, 09:06
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Dave thanks for the swift reply - apparently it is a solid paint with no clearcoat ???
I thought that was a bit strange - i should have just brought it to you after all the trouble i have had!!! I cant even ring them as they dont open saturdays!!!
dave-sbs
13-09-2008, 09:09
has it reacted all over or in certain parts?
Alastair
13-09-2008, 09:25
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Dave, the bonnet that was painted off the car hasn't reacted, but seems to be worse where there are sharp corners. However even the roof is doing it a bit? When I collected it the blue was a bit soft, so I asked about it and he said it is normal for water based to take longer to go off, so didn't worrk about it, it seems to have dried out now and shrivled!!! Arrrrrggggghhhh!
dave-sbs
13-09-2008, 09:30
Its a solid colour, but will need to be clear-coated to give the gloss if it is waterbase, i still stick with the clear being applied to soon.
If you have any fine grade paper knocking about ( like 1200 or 1500 ), gently rub it over the car somewhere and if it leaves white on the paper it is clearcoated for sure,
whichever way, take it back and open a can of whoop arse..
Alastair
13-09-2008, 09:41
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Thanks mate, I'm going to try and get the day off and get the car trailored back to them, as you can imagine after them having it over 2 months I am very dissapointed.
Any one any info on the cam timing?
The first time I did a cam swap, my timing from the factory cam was out as much. I've since found out that most older cars left the factory with the timing less than perfect. Dont worry about it.
Thats what the adjustable pulley is for.
Andrew Cooke
13-09-2008, 10:50
first thing to do is start again with the measurement, it's pretty easy to confuse yourself, I like to get the same answer twice, it's amazing how often it goes wrong.
Did you find TDC by looking at two flanks then finding the average, or just try and find the top. Did you turn the engine in the right direction?
BTW, one tooth is 18 deg, if you really are 14deg out you can set it pretty close just by moving a tooth.
i would also second clearcoat been applied to soon, , either way though it dosent matter its reacted in some way or another to give a bad finish, therefore its his problem and hes gota sort it. best of luck
go on andy... do a guide to timing aftermarket cams with adj verniers:) with pics of course:D.
tomdimma5
13-09-2008, 12:43
sound like it may aplied too soon aswell? water base has to be clearcoated full stop. as dave sed do the rub test, it could be a solid 2k color. get some pics up of ur reactions.
iv never had ths tho dave i have seen jobs "nip" up tho, whos paint u using at the mo dave?
i'm with dave re the paint problem, body shop wont be happy, but, its not your fault, speak to them asap.
Andrew Cooke
13-09-2008, 12:49
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=540
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=540
confusing stuff.
Andrew Cooke
13-09-2008, 12:59
go on andy... do a guide to timing aftermarket cams with adj verniers:) with pics of course:D.
here's a video I made earlier, I had a cold, so my voice sounds a little funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la6-EgnCOl4&feature=related
you use the same technique to set the degree wheel to TDC
Rob@Backyardracing
13-09-2008, 13:11
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here's a video I made earlier, I had a cold, so my voice sounds a little funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la6-EgnCOl4&feature=related
you use the same technique to set the degree wheel to TDC
lol... new build there Andy i see...
Alastair
13-09-2008, 16:31
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Thanks for all the replies, i will watch the video and dounle check Andy. I did check the tdc mark on the bottom sprocket was bang on with a DTI on the piston top though...
Where did the replys i saw from Dave SBS go about the paint?
I will upload some pics of the bad bits in a minute!
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=539
raondomly you have 2 threads. did you start 2 seperate threads ?
looks like you did, one is 10 minutes after the other.
Alastair
13-09-2008, 22:27
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?
How bizarre!
?
Alastair
13-09-2008, 22:30
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confusing stuff.
Ive gone cross eyed - two thread with the same name, looks like on is only half posted? My computer did throw a wobbly this AM though! Pics to follow in a mo when i work out how to get them off my phone.
Alastair
13-09-2008, 22:43
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Pics of wrinkled paint... sorry quality isnt great as taken on Phone.
:cry::cry::cry:
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I'd definately be taking it back!http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/fail-owned-red-button-fail.jpg
DaveMayGTT
14-09-2008, 08:43
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Wow, they cant really argue about re-doing that. Get it back there.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
I have had a bad week, I collected my car from the body shop 2 weeks ago and it was flawless - water based paint in French Racing Blue, with dark blue trim and white interior. However i came home this weekend to find the paint has crinckled like your skin does when you wash up for too long! Does any one know what causes this? Only the light blue on the body is affeected?
Help with either of the above much appreciated,
A very frustrated Al.
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
The thing with water based paint you have to dry it properly in a special type of spra booth other wise the first drop of rain and it screws up, sounds like they didn't do the job right, get second opinion from another body shop and then go have words
Alastair
15-09-2008, 12:22
Hi all, right just taken the car back to the body shop and found the following out:
It is (was) 2k paint.
They suspect a bad batch of hardener / paint
They are calling the 'paint rep' out on Thursday AM to take a look.
They recon it ALL has to come off and start again.
They have never seen anything like it in 30 years...
But the best news is that they are sorting it out and taking all responsibility. The bad news is that they dont know how long it is going to take, i said 3 weeks and i want it back - i thought that was fair, but wont be causing much of a fuss if it is a week later.
Does the above explanation make any sense to you paint gurus out there? Dave ?
:smokin:
Oh and Andy Cooke, thanks for the U-tube link, thats exactly how i have been doing it, except i was not averaging between 50 thou either side of full lift, i just zeroed the DTI and bared the engine over to this point every time... although i am going to take the head off again and start from scrtch with a proper protractor as my DIY one is a little shoddy! That means (i think) that my piper is WAY out!
Alastair
20-10-2008, 13:20
At last - The car has again been re-painted and it looks even better than the first time. I think they have spent more time polishing it up and finishing it. :) And the paint appears to have hardened off properly - bonus!
Now time to get all the bits bolted to it and have some fun, althoough i dont think i will have it ready for the 18 Nov trackday now - it would be a bit ambitious with a bathroom to build from scratch...
If anyone wants pics of any R5 GTT parts / locations then shout up and i will photo them as i build the car up from a bare shell (again).:laugh:
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