View Full Version : New suspension setup advice?
Right gents, next step for me is to have a look at the suspension setup on the 5. Just wanted to pick your brains on what options are out there?
Currently I've got adjustable Avo coilovers on, but they are pretty old now, no longer adjustable and in generaly poor condition.
They are also a bit too hard for me, maybe if I could adjust them things may improve but I'm not so sure? I'm really after a nice smooth setup for the road that will work on the track. I've had enough of bouncing around on bumpy roads!
So would it be worth sending the Avo's off to be re-conditioned? If so does anyone know how much that costs?
If there are better options let me know, remember I carry a bit more weight upfront than a standard Gtt so may need higher rated springs?
Cheers Ashy.
jesus in the seat of a 5
14-03-2009, 14:31
Ash , so far ive tried konis , ultimate coil overs , avo`s and the ones im using now..spax coilovers, if your intending to use the car a lot on the road too, id go koni`s, they are superb on track and road and seem problem free for years, i like the spax coilovers but again they are hard but for the track they seem mega tight and dont roll what so ever, id go koni`s buddy , thats just my opinion bud.
Mudslinger
14-03-2009, 15:01
after driving mine yesterday , im in serious need of a suspension overhaul :crap:
it just doesnt feel safe atall , doesnt help having so much power but im not sure i like the feeling the diff gives , doesnt feel right while cornering ,it feels like the tyres just slide rather than turn (new tyres might help i suppose), the konis ive got on ive had on the car since 1996 :scared: im not sure if having the shortened driveshaft is adding to the general feel of the car .
Im planning on a complete overhaul of the suspension when cash allows but im also interested on what options there is ? are all the suspension components still available for ph1 to completely renew the lot , im inclined to just get a new set of konis and springs rather than go coilovers what do others think?
Gttnutter
14-03-2009, 15:18
coilover refurb is around 60-70 a side which is what one of the companys quoted me from a link on my thread
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=3794
they would be returned in a clean fully working state being dipped etc
hers the link to the refurbs
i was quoted from sportsline suspension (the top of the 3)
yellow koni adjustables for me everytime:agree:
i think coilovers are only necessary if you want the car to sit lower the a shock/spring setup can give. coilovers seem abit too harsh for my liking.:disagree:
Leda - but they're not cheap.
jesus in the seat of a 5
14-03-2009, 16:24
Leda - but they're not cheap.
cup.....;)..:wasntme:
Coil overs are always harsh as the smaller diameter spring you use, the worse the ride becomes. I do coilover kits for the GTA's and I use OEM diameter springs and the handline and ride is better than the originals.
You could go for GAZ, half the cost of Leda, and designed by half of Leda:D
cup.....;)..:wasntme:
Might lose a few teeth using them on a B road..:wasntme:
I have a spare set of Cup I may use on the left hooker..
jesus in the seat of a 5
14-03-2009, 16:43
Might lose a few teeth using them on a B road..:wasntme:
I have a spare set of Cup I may use on the left hooker..
:laugh:...id like to use the ones i have on the cup also, ive lost a lot of mine so i should be fine...:D
Andrew Cooke
14-03-2009, 18:52
Coil overs are always harsh as the smaller diameter spring you use, the worse the ride becomes.
do what:scratch:
do what:scratch:
Big diameter springs can have thicker windings for strength and larger spacing between coils. The smaller diameter you go, the smaller spacing you have to use and thus more likely to coil bind.
You ever seen a 2.25" coil with only a few turns like you get on large diameter springs??
Why do you think everyone with the early GAZ kits with 'standard GT rate' springs (about 180iirc) but in 2.25 inch complained about them being too hard? This was due to the spring being coil bound and having in theory a near infinite spring rate (ie solid). So the way round it was to actually fit 300lb springs. The ride was still hard, but not as crashy.
If you had 180lb large diameter springs, you wouldnt have had that problem.
Im saying Gaz ones..
Spax coilovers are amazing though.. were amazing on my mates clio. so if there the same for the 5! :agree::agree:
Those poly rings/donuts on top of the shocks make everyday driving a lot smoother with Konis ;)
Andrew Cooke
15-03-2009, 09:27
Hi Ashy,
I'm considering the same problem myself, at this point I'm thinking custom Koni adjustable platform coilovers.
I think I'm going to start with a static deflection of around 3 1/2", should give an Aston Martin type sporty ride... static deflection is the difference in rideheight between running, and jacked up to the point that the springs are loose (that may not be physically be possible). If you can try and measure this on your car as well as find out what rate springs you have - should allow you to chose a new spring pretty easily.
As pointed out by Dave, beware of going coilbound, you will probably need to fit long springs.
SD under 2" is not where you want to be... 2" is roughly tarmac rally spec - good dampers make it smooth.
roughly speaking, if you have 700lb of sprung weight on each front corner, a sd of 3.5" will give you a 200lb spring, and 2" will give you a 350lb spring.
Dampers will make more of a difference than springs.
Matt Cole
15-03-2009, 10:53
Good thread this, as thats exactly were im at too. The problem i have is the heavier engine as Ashy has. The car is mainly for the road, not track and drag. Now my set up consists of standard type shocks, 35mm cheap lowering springs and bilstein o/e type rear shocks. I have crap front tyres. The car is too bouncy on the roads imo(doesnt soak up the bumps) and when cornering, the front slides when powering on. All in all its dreadfull. What i want is something that rides like what the standard clio 172/182 feels like. Firm but absorbs all of the crap/pothole ridden british road surfaces. Can we determine why these new type of cars seem so much better to drive/smoother than the gt setup even with all new parts?? The strut setup doesn't really look much different in terms of components .Is there a way of doing some modifications to the 172 set up for the gt to get the same ride quality?? I haven't looked into it yet, but may be viable. If not, then i may go for the standard type set up that koni have to offer if its any good.
any suggestions welcome chaps.:agree:
I'm thinking of changing my suspension set up as wel, as I feel it could be alot better (Or maybe I just need new rear tyres ;) ) At the moment i've got Koni shocks at the front and Gas at the rear (clio 16v).
Matt Cole
16-03-2009, 21:46
thread bump as its nearly gone!
Andrew Cooke
16-03-2009, 21:59
thread bump as its nearly gone!
http://www.renaultpower.com/?rS=parts&cid=205
Bilstein, fully custom, tell Sven what it all weighs, and what you want from it. You might want to match it up with 4 rear torsion bars.
Just have a quick peek at Bilstein Tarmac suspension for Peugeots.
http://www.renaultpower.com/?rS=parts&cid=205
Bilstein, fully custom, tell Sven what it all weighs, and what you want from it. You might want to match it up with 4 rear torsion bars.
Just have a quick peek at Bilstein Tarmac suspension for Peugeots.
Nice but with the euro - Pound exchange rate thats pretty expensive!!
Matt Cole
17-03-2009, 07:07
aye credit crunch and all!! Has anyone dissected the clio172/182 setup yet??
Andrew Cooke
17-03-2009, 13:08
aye credit crunch and all!! Has anyone dissected the clio172/182 setup yet??
it's about size and weight Matt, there's no mystery. If you want a car to ride bumps make it big and heavy.
Andrew Cooke
17-03-2009, 13:25
the cliosport guys get all dribbly about these:
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufacturers-543/ast-suspension-722/ast-sportline-i-coilovers-723/ast-sportline-i-coilovers-renault-clio-mk2-rs-cup-1522.html
in reality they are the mickey mouse of the AST range, you need to spend 2K to get the better stuff.
Note the front spring rate for road, 50N/mm, I think that's *5.6 to get lb/in, so ~280lb/in..
Andrew Cooke
17-03-2009, 13:32
have a read:
http://www.readyforthetrack.co.uk/2008/10/the-knowledge-2-suspension-clio-172-ff-cup/
Good website that :agree:
"The best setup in my opinion (without going to coilovers) is the Koni Adjustable Damper Kit, with the Eibach Sportline spring."
Chuffed with that, although on my 172 it has the Apex springs, only as they were a very good price (Cheers Adey) :agree:
The shims and corrector bolts would have been next on the to do list
What are decent coilovers to go for? I'm probably going to go for GAZ in the near future
Decided i'm going for the spax rsx coilover route :agree: What's good settings for these for handling and getting the power down
Matt Cole
22-03-2009, 10:58
Let us know what they are like on the road sphynx!:agree:
dangerous dave
22-03-2009, 11:13
What are decent coilovers to go for? I'm probably going to go for GAZ in the near future
whose had all the other coilover inc gaz and how did they stack up? i have them with 270lbs spings and there rock hard, but seem fine on the road pushing them to my limits of road use.. on a track i think they would be great with adjustments.
the cliosport boys hate them but i wouldn't take advice from them as 99.9 percent of them are lemmings..
however if ashy thinks the avos are hard i get the feeling the gaz might be even harder as i hit a bump/pothole on 1/2 setting and bounce off the seat nearly hitting the roof..:crap:
Let us know what they are like on the road sphynx!:agree:
Will do mate, will probably have them on end of april.
The 270lbs springs is what I was thinking of. I'll see what they're like compared to the koni's I have at the moment
I have the spax rsx krypto coilovers with the 270lb springs on my 5 as soon as she is running with the heavier engine I will post up some of my thoughts on the setup aswell:)
whats the spring poundage on the avo coilovers ?
im thinking of a revamp for my car too as well as renewing every component i can find lol
the only area that ****s me off at the moment is the rear of the car being soft even on a firm setting, thats the avos for you :disagree:
does anyone use the front avo coilover and any other rear damper ?
i have been thinking of reverting to extra van rear shocks as they can handle extra load/lowering etc with a deceant level of comfort.
On a lowered gtt the extra van shocks would probably be bottomed out.
Bin the avo's for a koni setup ;)
Gttnutter
23-03-2009, 13:12
I run avo's on the front with gaz on the rear - i went to fit the avo rears but found they pulled the rear down too much
The GTZ avo kit use 2.25 L/D race springs (if this means anything to anyone)
yea, i did think that they might be at the point of uselessness on my car lol
thing is, my car isnt stripped out now, pretty much full interior so that weight will bring the arse down, not by much but enough lol
may get some konis, who knows...:smokin:
Gttnutter
23-03-2009, 13:24
the clonking noise was enough for me to change back to the gaz within minutes :agree:
I did have some rear gaz dampers, gave them to Adey, ahh, never mind lol
I have gaz coilovers, i can't remember what the spring rate is? I think i need springs with a harder rate as i use the gt for competition, and i find the front of the car too soft for the tight corners.
Matt@CodeRedMotorsports
26-03-2009, 07:54
I think they came out with 170 lb springs.....I could be wrong.
For competition I used 275 lb springs, which is a good all-rounder as I normally drive the car to events....so is OK on our lovely UK surfaced roads!
rs250nut
26-03-2009, 17:10
I have gaz coilovers, i can't remember what the spring rate is? I think i need springs with a harder rate as i use the gt for competition, and i find the front of the car too soft for the tight corners.
Probabley the same as mine which are 175lb springs, as mentioned above it makes for a crashy ride and like you say to soft.
Just out of interest has anyone turreted the rear of their car or changed the rear end set up?
I think they came out with 170 lb springs.....I could be wrong.
For competition I used 275 lb springs, which is a good all-rounder as I normally drive the car to events....so is OK on our lovely UK surfaced roads!
I drive the car to events aswell, so that could be a future option. I know James George uses a mini coil on the rear in place of bumpstop.
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