Traction control

[DK DEVELOPMENTS]

How difficult to fit traction control to a 5? Is it a case of using clio hubs and drive shafts???:scratch:

[Scoff]

I think it will depend on your ecu, what type of wheel speed inputs it wants to see and how many inputs it has. Mine has only 2 channels so I used diff speed at the front and a single rear wheel for non-driven wheel speed. I never got round to programming up the traction control, I just use the speed sensors for launch control. Some ECU's will have 3 or 4 channels. most inputs are vr, like ABS sensors. You could use 16v ABS discs on the back and mount sensors to the hubs. You could try 16v outer cv's at the front - if they fit onto the R5 shafts ? never tried :)

[Andrew Cooke]

You could try 16v outer cv's at the front - if they fit onto the R5 shafts ? never tried :)

they will, could also use the matching upright as it has a bracket for the speed sensor and is beefier than the GTT one.

[Frix]

I think it will depend on your ecu, what type of wheel speed inputs it wants to see and how many inputs it has. Mine has only 2 channels so I used diff speed at the front and a single rear wheel for non-driven wheel speed. I never got round to programming up the traction control, I just use the speed sensors for launch control. Some ECU's will have 3 or 4 channels. most inputs are vr, like ABS sensors. You could use 16v ABS discs on the back and mount sensors to the hubs. You could try 16v outer cv's at the front - if they fit onto the R5 shafts ? never tried :)


can you explain this ABS bit, abit more?

[DK DEVELOPMENTS]

they will, could also use the matching upright as it has a bracket for the speed sensor and is beefier than the GTT one.

Are the up rights the same thickness at the point they bolt to the shock?

[Scoff]

can you explain this ABS bit, abit more?

Sure :)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=how+abs+works&meta=

[Frix]

Sure :)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=how+abs+works&meta=


eh no need for that, i understand ABS, were you saying you can add this to the 5??

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Are the up rights the same thickness at the point they bolt to the shock?

From memory ye, you could use the 16v hubs with 16v out cvs if this is what you mean... some correct me if im wrong...:confused:

[Scoff]

eh no need for that, i understand ABS, were you saying you can add this to the 5??

Ah right, yes as they guys say above, you could run 16v rear discs and 16v front outer cv's and hubs, it all fits, you then only need to worry about mounting a sensor to the rear trailing arm. I just welded a tab in and bolted the sensor up.

[Scoff]

if you are thinking about adding abs itself then you could even use the ABS module from the later clio 16v and williams, it is a standalone module, shouldn't be hard to wire up :)

[Duncan Grier]

As stated 16V hubs/discs/bearing are straight swap for std 5 stuff. And as Andy has also stated stronger ;)

That is what was used on the vag 5 - 16v front hub/bearing and williams outer cv

16v rear beam - def not straight swap but sure the disc/abs ring fit and as scoff stated you could mount sensor to pick up the sensor.

ABS can be ran as it's seperate from the ecu on 16V

tbh I never bothered on the 5 but the vx220 turbo had a 2 chan standalone ABS setup and was dangerous in my view, changing to the exige 4 channel module made a massive improvement but still turn it off on track and nice days for spirited driving.

ABS is a nice saftey feature but really not needed once you know the limits of your car.

Enjoy the raw basics of the 5 ;)

[newbstar*]

new driveshafts from renault for the 5 come with abs rings on the cv joint.

[Frix]

thanks guys all making sense now!!! :D

[Frix]

ABS is a nice saftey feature but really not needed once you know the limits of your car.

Enjoy the raw basics of the 5 ;)



very true, thats what i tend to love about my 5, feels like a proper drivers car, not everybody could get in drive it. I was driving a new M3 the other day, very fast but so easy to drive, anyone could drive it!!

[Phoenix Autosport]

sorry for digging this thread up from the far past but after a search i got to thinking about the possibility of measuring wheel rotation in order to implement a basic launch control system, anyone had a go at this ?

[Scoff]

Yes, I use wheel speed for launch control, gear dependant boost and if I can work out some settings I want to use traction control next year too.

Russel Thorpe runs launch and traction control in his R5 racer with good success, he can floor the throttle in 1st gear (200hp) and get no spin just grip. He has a knob on the dashboard to vary the amount of slip. Like my car he has 4x wheel speed sensors and ABS rings. Thats all done in his Adaptronic ECU. He only uses the ignition side of it too, he still has a carb :)

There are standalone units for launch and traction control but so far I've only seen ones that cut ignition. Thats a bit harsh. Having it in the ECU means you can implement a power reduction strategy. Initially pulling boost, then timing and if they fail it will cut every other cylinder and finally if it's still spinning it'll cut power altogether for a period. You can specify the "effort" or amount of each of those stages.

The tricky bit is getting 4x hall sensors and ABS rings mounted. If you're only interested in launch control then rear wheel speed is all you need. One sensor is enough. :)

[SCHWARTZ]

Looking at the launch control option on megasquirt and there's no mention of rear wheel speed sensor. What does the ecu Need the sensor for?

[Logg]

Looking at the launch control option on megasquirt and there's no mention of rear wheel speed sensor. What does the ecu Need the sensor for?

I think quite a few ecu call having a secondary rev limit as a L/C me and Big Dan both run it off a switch. You get lots of bangs and flames out the exhaust also I've seen 10psi+ whilst doing this with my old T3 did help the lag at the traffic light gp.

Some ecu's can also run it off wheel speed sensors so it would only be activated below a pre set speed so no need to switch it off right after you've launched.

[Mart]

Looking at the launch control option on megasquirt and there's no mention of rear wheel speed sensor. What does the ecu Need the sensor for?

As a reference point of measuring actual road speed/mph.

[SCHWARTZ]

I think quite a few ecu call having a secondary rev limit as a L/C me and Big Dan both run it off a switch. You get lots of bangs and flames out the exhaust also I've seen 10psi+ whilst doing this with my old T3 did help the lag at the traffic light gp.

Some ecu's can also run it off wheel speed sensors so it would only be activated below a pre set speed so no need to switch it off right after you've launched.

Ah ok I was just going to have a press button on the steering wheel.

[RussellT]

to be fair I havnt got it quite that good yet. I was testing it at road boost not race boost. Loton Park last weekend on the start line I was sat still for about a second bouncing off the launch rev limit. But Im making progress with the PID controller. Its all good fun and so cool to have a knob to play with :laugh:

[Lewis]

16v rear beam - def not straight swap but sure the disc/abs ring fit and as scoff stated you could mount sensor to pick up the sensor.

What's makes the 16v rear beam not a straight swap Duncan? I have a Williams(same as clio 16v) rear beam on my 5 and it bolted straight on.
It's slightly wider so may cause some arch rubbing issues with certain tyre/wheel choices.

As for the complete clio abs system swap I've heard the clio system is similar to that used on the 19, which I've heard is trouble and actually not very good.

[stu21t]

I think quite a few ecu call having a secondary rev limit as a L/C me and Big Dan both run it off a switch. You get lots of bangs and flames out the exhaust also I've seen 10psi+ whilst doing this with my old T3 did help the lag at the traffic light gp.

Some ecu's can also run it off wheel speed sensors so it would only be activated below a pre set speed so no need to switch it off right after you've launched.

For this type of launch control i would add an extra switch inline. If you put a switch on the clutch (i think a brake light switch fits on the clutch) as well as 1 on the dash then the rev limiter would only work while youve got the clutch depressed. So you dont have to rush to turn off the switch as you launch, youve got until you need to change gear.

[SCHWARTZ]

Could you not just have a press button on the wheel, so you can hold it in whilst stationary and release after you have launched? Or does it need another in-put?

[Phoenix Autosport]

i was thinking along the lines of measuring the speed of both front wheels and comparing each with a rear wheel sensor to detect loss of traction then should that occur using a boost controller to dial down the boost pressure on a graduated scale in relation to the difference between the 2 readings.

after doing a bit of research though its probably easier to use a progressive boost controller working off an rpm and gear select inputs then just program it for the desired boost curve.

[Tony Walker]

my traction controls pretty basic..... lag :agree: difficult to get it to spin in 1st gear to be honest.