Project 172

[Andrew Cooke]

I'm almost certainly going to regret this...

It looks like I've bought most of a PH2 172 (anyone want what looks like a straight shell?). It's complete enough to move around under it's own steam, or will be when I slip some wheels under it.

I'm on the look out for something amusing to build the bits into, no rush as I've got plenty to do simplifying the wiring in the 172 so that it's easier to reshell when the time comes.

It'll be a daily driver, so it won't be anything other than standard :sad2:

No pictures yet, but I'll post once I have some.

[c7borg]

I'm almost certainly going to regret this...

It looks like I've bought most of a PH2 172 (anyone want what looks like a straight shell?). It's complete enough to move around under it's own steam, or will be when I slip some wheels under it.

I'm on the look out for something amusing to build the bits into, no rush as I've got plenty to do simplifying the wiring in the 172 so that it's easier to reshell when the time comes.

It'll be a daily driver, so it won't be anything other than standard :sad2:

No pictures yet, but I'll post once I have some.

Looks like fun.. are you still hillclimbing/sprinting?

I've just sent off for my license and NottinghamSportsCarClub membership, so I'll be doing a few rounds this year all being well :)

[Andrew Cooke]

Looks like fun.. are you still hillclimbing/sprinting?

I've just sent off for my license and NottinghamSportsCarClub membership, so I'll be doing a few rounds this year all being well :)

yes and no, I think this could be another taking it easy year :laugh:

[Adey aka Ewok]

172 lump into a new shape twingo :agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

172 lump into a new shape twingo :agree:

isn't a new shape twingo just an old clio in a new shape?

[Chris Hebden]

A mini?

[Adey aka Ewok]

isn't a new shape twingo just an old clio in a new shape?

yeah, same shape clio as mine, so all the bits wishbones and stuff should drop in

[Andrew Cooke]

yeah, same shape clio as mine, so all the bits wishbones and stuff should drop in

nah, you build it and I'll take the pictures :laugh:

[Adey aka Ewok]

get me all the bits ill chuck it together with cable ties:agree:

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Andy, how much for the shell?

C1J'd stripped clio shell sounds like fun. :D

[Andrew Cooke]

Andy, how much for the shell?

C1J'd stripped clio shell sounds like fun. :D

I've already had some interest, nothing concrete. I won't want much, I certainly wouldn't be offended by any offer. Let me get it on my drive before you start fighting over it. The shell looked good, no sunroof, but it will be little more than a shell once I've finished.

[Andrew Cooke]

Those of you on Cliosport, is there anything of technical value in the members only bits?

[James5]

Those of you on Cliosport, is there anything of technical value in the members only bits?

No the place is fully of numptys if they have a problem they take there cars to K-Tec

[Andrew Cooke]

don't hold back :laugh:

looking at the projects there seem to some clued up than others, although I note an unhealthy interest in 'flocking'.... still, a few years ago it was like that here, but 'mesh' was the word of choice:sad2:

[Adey aka Ewok]

buddy if you need out off there give me a shout no need to pay up for anything, not many people on there can answer any technical questions

[Andrew Cooke]

buddy if you need out off there give me a shout no need to pay up for anything, not many people on there can answer any technical questions


sweet, can you get me all the info needed to fit a ph2 172 engine into another shell:D

I really need to start pawing over the 172, but how much stuff can I ditch, and it still run normally? How does the security thing work? Am I better ditching it and hacking the ECU, or transplanting it? Actually, what is it?? I guess it'll be easier to ditch the ABS and fit a pressure limiter in the rear brake lines? Or is it, and should I just throw the ABS on too?

I'm at the point, where I don't know how much stuff I don't know:sad:

[The new Bill J]

sweet, can you get me all the info needed to fit a ph2 172 engine into another shell:D

I really need to start pawing over the 172, but how much stuff can I ditch, and it still run normally? How does the security thing work? Am I better ditching it and hacking the ECU, or transplanting it? Actually, what is it?? I guess it'll be easier to ditch the ABS and fit a pressure limiter in the rear brake lines? Or is it, and should I just throw the ABS on too?

I'm at the point, where I don't know how much stuff I don't know:sad:

Ask K-Tec :)

[Scoff]

a full set of schematics would tell you a lot :)

[Adey aka Ewok]

if you want to keep the stock ecu you can get it chiped so that it doesnt have the security and stuff on it, you can ditch the abs, has its own loom sorta. you can use volvo 440 belt/alt setups to ditch the pas and ac if you have it too

[Andrew Cooke]

a full set of schematics would tell you a lot :)

sorted - sorta...

[Mart]

Cooke, what the bloody hell you planning to do now?! :coffee: :D

Shouldn't you be concentrating on getting your 5 back on the road...well, hill-climbs?

[Andrew Cooke]

if you want to keep the stock ecu you can get it chiped so that it doesnt have the security and stuff on it, you can ditch the abs, has its own loom sorta. you can use volvo 440 belt/alt setups to ditch the pas and ac if you have it too

yep, PAS and AC will be going. I'll have to look into the volvo belt setup, sounds a bit simpler than all the ****e hanging off the end of the engine. Smaller too - and boy, do I need to claw back all the space I can ;)

Feel free to post the parts required for the volvo belt setup:cartman:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

I had a theory that, if you plipped or turned on the ignition of the donor car in its original state then, cut the wire from the UCH to the injection computer, the injection computer would always be unlocked.....? Worth a try one day if someone is good with a soldering iron to re-join the wires, or, going to 'Chip' a car anyway......

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

yep, PAS and AC will be going. I'll have to look into the volvo belt setup, sounds a bit simpler than all the ****e hanging off the end of the engine. Smaller too - and boy, do I need to claw back all the space I can ;)

Feel free to post the parts required for the volvo belt setup:cartman:

A C409 or R5 GTX bottom pully, altenator bracket and tensioner is OK....

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

It may take a few days, but if you want I can print off some wiring diags for the 172 off from VISU and post them to ya...?

[Scoff]

Re. the volvo setup (which I think is also similar to the gtx setup ?) you might run into issues with clearance in a small engine bay. the alternator bracket has the alternator sitting forward rarther a lot. I couldn't get it into my engine bay!

[Andrew Cooke]

Cooke, what the bloody hell you planning to do now?! :coffee: :D

Shouldn't you be concentrating on getting your 5 back on the road...well, hill-climbs?


it's a surprise, but I'll bet your reaction will be something along the lines of "FFS":scratch:

and you're right, that's what I should be concentrating on, but I'm not.

[Andrew Cooke]

actually, a big part of me was thinking - why not just buy all the lightweight fibreglass and perspex parts in the catalogue and put the 172 back on the road. But nah, that's just too "cliosport":laugh:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Re. the volvo setup (which I think is also similar to the gtx setup ?) you might run into issues with clearance in a small engine bay. the alternator bracket has the alternator sitting forward rarther a lot. I couldn't get it into my engine bay!

I reckon a motorcycle altenator and a diy bracket should sort the problem,and,now you have a proper mill Andy, it should be easy to knock up a bracket....?

[Andrew Cooke]

Re. the volvo setup (which I think is also similar to the gtx setup ?) you might run into issues with clearance in a small engine bay. the alternator bracket has the alternator sitting forward rarther a lot. I couldn't get it into my engine bay!

hmm, might need bit more thought then, still, at least it won't need that to start, I'm sure something can be bodged together.

[James5]

I have used the GTX setup which is very similair if not the same to the Volvo setup

I had to modify the bracket so it would clear the cross member (Renault part number 77 00 718 613 - £23.50 inc VAT)

The top alt bracket is also off the GTX bracket (Renault part number 82 00 031 832 - £44.17 inc VAT)

[Ashy]

Cliosports only a fiver to join isn't it? So its not really a big expense but as Jame5 says they are a bunch of numptys who don't listen to good advice unless its from GDI or Ktec!!

However, if you want a 50 page thread on whos got the best ass, Britney or Christina, then its a fiver well spent :coffee:

There are some nice projects on there tho!!

The UCH thing that reads the key doesn't seem to be any thing fancy, I put a multimeter across it and it just read +5v whin the key was inserted, I guess you could override it fairly easily?

[Andrew Cooke]

Thanks for the pics James, I'll be looking at them again nearer the time :) I guess it uses a different belt?

Ashy - as a non member I can see the projects. Since I presumably have a UCH (?) in the donor car do I need to bypass it, or can I just use it? This may seem obvious to you, but I've not seen one, got any idea what it is, how it works, or even how you activate/deactivate it...

Matt - I think I'm OK for diagrams, I'll just need to get my head around what's what. I'll be back on touch once I'm totally lost

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

OK, if you need a hand with understanding the UCH/Decoder give me a shout and I'll dust off my old training manuals....

[James5]

Yeah the original belt is a 6pk I ended up getting a 5pk827 or was it 5pk 830 belt from a local motor factor.


:pWhere the bits I emailed you any good and did you take a look at the download link? what did you think of it?

[c7borg]

Thanks for the pics James, I'll be looking at them again nearer the time :) I guess it uses a different belt?


I managed to get the top alternator bracket from a volvo 440 and there's no shortage of those in the scrappers.. oh and it has the added advantage of having a mounting point for an engine damper, which is nice if you one one. but best of all it cost £5.
I also got the bottom bracket from the same car but that'll need a bit of bashing to get on :)

[Rob@Backyardracing]

So whats the plans or base of the engine?

how about a 172 R11 http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=5092

Would be different? :confused:

[Andrew Cooke]

So whats the plans or base of the engine?

how about a 172 R11 http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=5092

Would be different? :confused:

is different good? I hope so :popcorn:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Its my cup of tea... :agree: spill the beans whats going on :confused:

[Andrew Cooke]

Its my cup of tea... :agree: spill the beans whats going on :confused:

I will once I know, I'm almost there, just sold my Micra to make space in my life for another car.

[Andrew Cooke]

just watched the Micra drive away, it was 'emotional' off for a Guinness to celebrate.

Nothing much to report, although I should be picking the 'clio' up on Sunday. Can rattle off a couple of pics of the hulk then.

[Andrew Cooke]

woops...

[James5]

woops...


:laugh: Love the 3 spokes:cooter:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Nuts :eek: this is guna be good i can see it......:)

[Andrew Cooke]

:laugh: Love the 3 spokes:cooter:

you can't put a price on retro chic like that, still, you're a mate, make me an offer :laugh:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

What size are they? look small and light, ideal for drag rears maybe :coffee:

[Andrew Cooke]

What size are they? look small and light, ideal for drag rears maybe :coffee:

not sure, but I bet they're not as light as they look. I'll try and weigh one with a tyre on.

[i l k e r]

woops...


ah so you got it then, nice. is it running yet? :p

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Rear engine would be a winner there Andy....go on & do it for a laugh.

[Andrew Cooke]

Rear engine would be a winner there Andy....go on & do it for a laugh.

nooo, it's going to be a nice sensible daily driver, nothing that takes away the original practicality. Besides, the seats fold down to make a double bed - of sorts :D

Ilker - it's running, that's largely because my spanners have been nowhere near it..

2 streams to the project, the first is to strip all the extraneous ****e off the 172 and get it running in minimal mode - ie hotwired. Service the 172 engine - belt swap, and anything obvious or recommended (suggestions please..)

The second is the twingo -
- Wheels and tyres - 195/45/15 - play about with spacers to get the clearance right..
- 172 brakes (and front suspension?)
- there are some rust spots underneath that need looking at - hopefully it's just clean, inhibit and coat, if not I have a MIG..
- suspension - I can see Koni coilover all around.
- engine and gearbox swap.

as you can see the engine is way down the list.

The good thing about having something unusual to start with is you need to do no more than hang fuzzy dice from the interior mirror to make it unique..

[c7borg]

Now are you sure you don't the engine in the back :)
http://www.twingo.net/nicolas/fusee2.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

Picked the Twingo up today, as well as some R19 16V wheels, took a few pics. The tyres are shot and 195/50/15, so a bit big.

just got it off the trailer:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/nice.jpg

just popped a wheel on to check for clearance
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/better.jpg

4 of the 5 look to have been painted in crackle paint - which is a shame. Still, they seem to fit the front OK:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/front.jpg

and the rear, although they are tight on the handbrake cable, may need a small spacer, or may be ok with the cable pulled out of the way:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/rear.jpg

yes, the rear does have coil overs, so plenty of chance to have adjustable platforms all around :) The rears fill the back out quite nicely:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/behind.jpg

it was all a bit of a rush as it was getting dark
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/side.jpg

I should be picking the clio up tomorrow morning, I'll be able to check whether the R19 wheels clear the 172 brakes, if so I think I'm going to keep them, I think they look suitably subtle on the Twingo :)

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Wheels look good Andrew, if you want me to give them a refurb/lick of paint let me know.

[Andrew Cooke]

Wheels looke good Andrew, if you want me to give them a refurb/lick of paint let me know.

that's really tempting, it's a pity you're so far away. Much as I hate painting wheels, I think these could do with a lick of original grey. I'll find out tomorrow if they clear the 172 brakes, that's the next big hurdle.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

that's really tempting, it's a pity you're so far away. Much as I hate painting wheels, I think these could do with a lick of original grey. I'll find out tomorrow if they clear the 172 brakes, that's the next big hurdle.

I dont see why they wont clear the brake's, i know the ph1 have 15's & the ph2 has the same brake set up so it should all be good.

My cup wheels look good now there painted, they look like new :)

[James5]

:cooter:Looking good matey and suprisingly enough the wheels do so suit the little twingo

[Andrew Cooke]

another busy day out on the road, picked the Clio up. Tried an R19 wheel on the front and they fit fine:agree: so it's all go with the wheels. The Clio didn't have any wheels, so I took a set of 15's with me, fitted them, dropped another rim onto the floor so that I had somewhere to sit, fired it up and drove it onto the trailer. Apparently it has a recent cambelt change, certainly the aux belt tensioner looks new.

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio1.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio2.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio3.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio4.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

right... having stripped the tyres off the wheels yesterday I decided that they needed a bit of TLC before fitting the new tyres (ordered a set of 195/45/15 T1R Toyos..).

Dropped the first rim into the grit blaster today, got rid of the nasty crinkle finish and it's come up quite well - just 3 more to go :sad:

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/blasted%20wheel.jpg

weighed the rim, 7.9Kg plus 250g for the centre cap:eek: actually, not too bad...

I've now reached the limit of my expertise, I'm going to flat the surface a wee bit before paint - just to clean up the fragments of paint that remain (suggestions as to what I should flat with...), but as per the other thread, what next? I want an OE type grey/silver finish, how do I achieve it with the paints generally found in my local automotive shop?

Maybe I should just drive them down to Penfold :D

[Big Steve - Raider]

Hey Andrew,

Have a look at this LINK (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=105345&highlight=raider) to my mate's report on how he did my alloys.

Might give you some ideas?! :D

[Andrew Cooke]

Hey Andrew,

Have a look at this LINK (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=105345&highlight=raider) to my mate's report on how he did my alloys.

Might give you some ideas?! :D

your mate has 'issues':laugh:

[Winston]

Cool project :)

I found a twingo in my local scrappy yesterday... first time ive had a good look round one... so tiny :laugh:

[Big Steve - Raider]

your mate has 'issues':laugh:

:innocent:

:laugh:

[Andrew Cooke]

Cool project :)

I found a twingo in my local scrappy yesterday... first time ive had a good look round one... so tiny :laugh:

indeed, about the length of a real mini, just a chunk wider (I was parked next to one yesterday:smokin:)

How complete was it? I might needs some bits, and they're pretty rare.

[Winston]

It looked to be pretty much complete... you could prob get the whole car for cheap or if you need anything give me a shout i can always pop in

http://www.autosaveltd.co.uk/autosave_main.html

[Thundercat]

Anyone want a set of these, i had a set refurbished a couple of years ago!:)

[Andrew Cooke]

What crappy weather... I've been outside dodging hailstones pulling a few bits out of the Clio engine bay that I don't intend to use. I've got the ECU out ready for fettling. The plan is to strip everything off the clio that won't be going into the Twingo to ensure it'll run when I do the swap. I don't want the car to be off the road for ages whilst I scratch my head over the wiring.

Something I'm interested in is interrogating the OBD stuff, might make fault finding simpler..... I'll take any advice offered on this, at the moment I'm thinking I'll just go the RSTuner route.

I stripped all the wheels during the week, so had a go at painting them today. Fortunately I'm not a perfectionist, thus the job went OK :D one can of grey primer, 2 cans of alloy wheel paint and one can of lacquer later.... btw, due to the weather I sprayed them in the house, probably not one of my best ideas, the house is now cloudy and stinks :laugh:

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/painted%20wheel.jpg


If the weather is OK tomorrow I'm going to have a stab at fitting the clio brakes onto the Twingo...

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

:agree: looks good.

In house is best as they dry better...

Did my old set at my paint house in there kitchen.... stank for days and they kept on finding things with a green dust on for weeks after. :eek::laugh:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/sexychrissmith/R5%20Wheels/WorkStation.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/sexychrissmith/R5%20Wheels/26082008106.jpg

[djinuk]

me and my friend were spraying a set of mgzr wheels ages ago. He had a spray booth but it was outa order so we decided to spray the wheels in his living room in front of the gas fire. All was fine unil the 3rd wheel when he wept the car across the fire, the room lit up like a bonfire, he lost his eye brows and arm hair, it was very scary , but funny at the time. By the project looks spot on , poor clio there though.

[Blick]

me and my friend were spraying a set of mgzr wheels ages ago. He had a spray booth but it was outa order so we decided to spray the wheels in his living room in front of the gas fire. All was fine unil the 3rd wheel when he wept the car across the fire, the room lit up like a bonfire, he lost his eye brows and arm hair, it was very scary , but funny at the time. By the project looks spot on , poor clio there though.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Sparkie]

Something I'm interested in is interrogating the OBD stuff, might make fault finding simpler..... I'll take any advice offered on this, at the moment I'm thinking I'll just go the RSTuner route....

what do you need to do to it? i have kit that can read the ecu, tell you what it sees from the sensors, delete error codes etc etc. i cant reflash or tune it though.

[Ashy]

what do you need to do to it? i have kit that can read the ecu, tell you what it sees from the sensors, delete error codes etc etc. i cant reflash or tune it though.

What do you use mate, I need to reset the lights on my 182... Guess i could take it to the garage but that would be too easy!

[Andrew Cooke]

what do you need to do to it? i have kit that can read the ecu, tell you what it sees from the sensors, delete error codes etc etc. i cant reflash or tune it though.

I'm not too bothered about reflashing, it's more about knowing what's going on with the engine. It's possible that I'll be able to butcher the loom and it'll all work first time....

[Mart]

You can buy ecu/fault-code readers from RS/Maplins/Farnell, even Ebay. About £30 or so. As said, you can't reflash the ecu or anything like that with them, but you can read (and delete) the fault-code(s).

[Andrew Cooke]

You can buy ecu/fault-code readers from RS/Maplins/Farnell, even Ebay. About £30 or so. As said, you can't reflash the ecu or anything like that with them, but you can read (and delete) the fault-code(s).

yeah, I've seen the cheap readers, but I'd like to see what the sensors are doing rather than rely on an error code. I know the RSTuner can be used with a laptop to log what's going on, although it's not clear how much you can log (an extra E20 allows you to plug a wb lambda sensor in and log that too). The Twingo has very little in the way of clocks, just a light to tell you the engine has boiled over :D

[Mart]

:laugh:

Why not simply go after-market? eg, Adaptronic?

[Andrew Cooke]

:laugh:

Why not simply go after-market? eg, Adaptronic?

because it's simpler and cheaper not to. As you're prone to saying - Regie got it right first time :D

I've just been looking under the 172, it's got the split RH driveshaft, looks like I'm going to try and use the 172 shafts. I'm getting way too optimistic now, thinking I can use the 172 springs, dampers, brakes, and now driveshafts :rolleyes:

[Mart]

Of course :agree: :D

Ok, cheaper alternative idea No.2 - Couldn't you just 'borrow'/knock up some clocks from work & plumb them in to keep an eye on things? Could even retro-fit an uber reliable (!) set of gtt/clio 16v/172 clocks...maybe

[Andrew Cooke]

Of course :agree: :D

Ok, cheaper alternative idea No.2 - Couldn't you just 'borrow'/knock up some clocks from work & plumb them in to keep an eye on things? Could even retro-fit an uber reliable (!) set of gtt/clio 16v/172 clocks...maybe

I don't want to clutter the inside up, the twingo doesn't have a dash, and I'd like to keep it that way. It'll ruin the effect if the inside looks like a eurofighter :scared:

that said, I do have the racetechnology dash...

The little digital thing like duncs has might work if I hid it inside the ashtray...

[Andrew Cooke]

I didn't get very far with the suspension, the top nuts didn't want to move, I'll borrow a rattle gun from work tomorrow...

So, instead of playing with suspension I started stripping the extraneous ****e off the Clio, and boy is there a lot of it... the engine is now starting to look a bit smaller...

Unfortunately I also looked under the Twingo bonnet again, there isn't much in the way of space in there :D

I've got the ECU ready to send, I've decided to send it to ECUClinic to be made "free running", I don't want to rip too much out of the 172 loom until I've had it running again.

I could now do with a "GTX" alternator bracket, let me know if you have one available...

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Soon cracking on mate...:agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

I got to have a try at fitting the Clio suspension on the Twingo last night, it looks close enough that I'm going to try and fit it all when the engine goes in. At the moment it's sitting a bit high, but I think the new engine will sort that :) No pictures as it was all a bit "experimental":laugh:

Finally had the tyres fitted to the wheels today, they need to go back to have shorter valves fitted next week. I couldn't resist popping them on. I think they look a bit better than they did before I painted them:

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/painted%20wheels%202.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

I didn't do much over the weekend, the ECU hadn't arrived, so I spent some time unbundling the loom from the engine bay fuse/relay box to the pump/throttle/OBD connector. I'm beginning to understand what goes where in the Clio.

I'd planned on leaving the engine swap for a while, but two things have brought this forward
- my neighbour is having some building work, and the scaffolding means that I can't get my car off the drive for a couple of weeks
- I have next week off work.

Unfortunately the plan of firing the engine up in the Clio with minimal wiring and an unlocked ECU has gone out of the window as I still don't have it back, and apparently won't until next week. I'll hold off pulling the engine out as long as I can, but the reality is I probably need to be bolting it into the Twingo on Sunday if I stand any chance of getting it runninng in the near future. I'm going to start by pulling the Twingo apart, and see how things go from there. Bouyed with optimism having seen how easily James has got his 172GTT running I'm going to be wiring and running the ECU for the first time in the Twingo :sad2:

Anyway, some pics, firstly the Twingo engine bay, as you can see, the 1.2L C series engine is squezzed in there, just as well the 172 is a similar size :laugh:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20engine.jpg

again, to remind myself, the Twingo engine bay fuse/relay box is a complicated thing:crap:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20wiring.jpg

of course the Clio has about 4 times as much stuff in the equivalent box. I pulled the various bits out of the Clio box and removed it to leave just the wiring to look at: :eek:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio%20wiring.jpg

[Adam L]

You know, I went to Paris for the weekend and i'd never really seen one of those Twingo's before. Without even thinking stereotypically, nearly every car we saw was a Renault and a Peugeot. Not to mention I must have seen about 100 of those early Twingo's in the three days we were there.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Andy, get this project finished and sell it to me. :cool:

[James5]

Andy, I am sure you will have better luck than me as I am just special :rob:

Keep the pics flowing mate am loving it:cooter:

[Brigsy]

Just turbo the 1.2 & be done:laugh:

172 lump will be tight in there!

[Andrew Cooke]

Just turbo the 1.2 & be done:laugh:


that would be too easy, I have all the bits to do that, and fit GTT brakes sat around in my workshop :sad2:

I guess if I can't squeeze the 172 in I have that option....

[Andrew Cooke]

my ECU is being posted back to me today, if it wern't for the bank holiday I'd be getting it in good time, as it is I'm not sure when it'll be delivered.

[Chris Hebden]

that would be too easy, I have all the bits to do that, and fit GTT brakes sat around in my workshop :sad2:

I guess if I can't squeeze the 172 in I have that option....

Your one crazy man Andy :laugh:! If you have all the bits to make that engine better i cant get my head around why you wouldn't?

[Andrew Cooke]

I'm dodging showers outside today whilst trying to drop the engine out of the Twingo. When the rain gets too bad I've been hacking away at the 172 alternator bracket : it came to me that I could modify the lower bracket to allow the alternator to swing tighter to the block, and hopefully end up with something more compact that the volvo brackets - we'll see.

anyway, popped the bumper off, 2 bolts and it was off, this thing is much lighter than a GTT bumper, the front panel has been bent at some point, I'm undecided on whether to try and get it a bit straighter, or just ignore it. I'm tending towards ignore..
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/bumper%20off.jpg

The front panel unbolts on the Twingo giving excellent access. It's not difficult to remove, just a few bolts, and you need to remove the inner mud guards to get to a couple of the bolts, and the side repeater wiring. I found about 1Kg of sand behind each inner guard - I'm sure there is a story there, I might give the previous owner a call :laugh:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/front%20panel%20off.jpg

I also pulled off the front legs, partly because I want to fit the 172 ones, and partly so the driveshafts can stay in the box when I pull it out.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/front%20panel%20off%203.jpg

at this point I just need to remove the gear linkage, fuel lines, and exhaust before lifting her out.

[Chris Hebden]

Going well mate. Love the improvised axel stands, great idea :agree:

[Scoff]

I've been having issues with my alternator bracket / alignment the last couple of weeks, throwing belts or squeeking. Solved now and I can reccommend Camskill for the belts - I had to order a couple of different sizes until I was happy, next day delivery both times off their website. Plus they seem to do the whole dayco range, so any size you can imagine :)

[Andrew Cooke]

I've been having issues with my alternator bracket / alignment the last couple of weeks, throwing belts or squeeking. Solved now and I can reccommend Camskill for the belts - I had to order a couple of different sizes until I was happy, next day delivery both times off their website. Plus they seem to do the whole dayco range, so any size you can imagine :)

did you go for 6pk or 5pk?

[Scoff]

6pk, I was throwing 5pk off but 5pk would no doubt have worked fine once I solved the alignment problem.

[Andrew Cooke]

just pulled the engine out, got a table booked for 7:30, gotta scrub up and run :D

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20engine%20out.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20empty.jpg

[James5]

Bloody hell Andy that was quick keep the pics coming.

[Andrew Cooke]

Bloody hell Andy that was quick keep the pics coming.

if the weather is OK tomorrow I'll be stripping the clio down to the same state, ideally I'll be seeing what fits where on Sunday. Taking them apart is easy, it's the making all the bits fit together that's going to take the time.

[Andrew Cooke]

6pk, I was throwing 5pk off but 5pk would no doubt have worked fine once I solved the alignment problem.

Just ordered a 5pk865, I cut and shut the standard belt to get the size. It looked like the 6pk was going to rub on the timing belt cover, so I took the safe option.

If it doesn't fit under the bonnet at that I can modify the alternator bracket for even more swing.

[Matt Cole]

On the 225 its a 7pk crank pulley and alternator pulley. I running a 6pk at the moment 865mm

[Andrew Cooke]

today started a bit slowly after a trip to the pub last night, I also realised that I needed to buy some food :disagree:. With the help of a thread on here I popped into our high street car spares place and bought a tube of TigerSeal to fill the holes in my engine mounts - I figured the standard ones weren't up to handling 3x the power. In the end I only did the rear one as I'd like to try and get new fronts. No pictures because it isn't pretty :laugh:

Pulled a few bits out of the twingo engine bay, wiped a few bits, then got bored.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20cleaning.jpg

I'd been delaying pulling the engine out of the clio, but I really needed to get it out, so I pulled the trailer forward, and used the ramps as a makeshift ramp, pushed the clio back onto the 'ramp' and started unbolting. Getting the engine crane onto the trailer on my own necessitated dismantling it first. Anyway, long story to short, I now have the suspension off, the engine is sat on the floor, and I just need to lift the car off it. The call to the pub stopped play again..

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio%20engine%20out.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

the day started with the nearest thing to cleaning that I'm likely to be caught doing

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20clean.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/twingo%20clean%202.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

I then picked the clio up, and pulled the engine out from underneath it
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio%20engine.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/clio%20engine%202.jpg

I then took a quick picture showing the alternator sat on it's modified bracket.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/alternator.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

with a bit of grunting I got the engine over to the Twingo, and lifted it roughly into position to get an idea what fitted and what didn't.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%201.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%202.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%203.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

it was clear that I'd be lifting the engine in and out a lot, so to save damaging anything I decided to remove the loom, cooling system, exhaust manifold (as this clashed with the rear engine mount), the inlet plenum, and the lifting eye.

First, the obligatory loom shot
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/loom.jpg

stripped engine
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%204.jpg

I'm going to need to cut a bit out of the cockpit air intake box, the engine is still sat too low, although it is now sat loosely on 2 of the 3 engine mounts
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%205.jpg

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%206.jpg

and finally a shot from underneath with the bonnet shut - note that the engine is still sat too low, and slightly too far forwards.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/engine%20in%207.jpg

[wrightygtt]

Awesome work, I know the french Performance cars magazine is a bag of poo, but it has a wide arched twingo with a v8 in the back, which I'll scan up later if you'd like. Although its probably not your cup of tea:)

[minty83]

twingos must be all the rage!
supercharged f7r:)
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=de&id=95565991&pageNumber=1&__lp=222&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=20700&makeModelVariant1.modelId=38&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=2

[Andrew Cooke]

oops, looks like the cheap build has gone out of the window, just ordered a set of H&R coilovers :sad2:

[Ashy]

oops, looks like the cheap build has gone out of the window, just ordered a set of H&R coilovers :sad2:

172 suspension no good then?

[Andrew Cooke]

172 suspension no good then?

nope, way too long, the bottom balljoints neck out before the dampers can fully extend, Gonna break something doing that. Still hoping to use the 172 uprights, brakes etc.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

blimey, bet they wernt cheap... but if its the only major thing you have to change :agree: fingers crossed for you anyway.

[Andrew Cooke]

blimey, bet they wernt cheap... but if its the only major thing you have to change :agree: fingers crossed for you anyway.

not too bad, esp considering the poor state of the pound; just over £600. They 'should' have bilstein inserts which means they are rebuildable, and revalveable in the UK. I expect that I'll be cutting off the bottom mounts and welding on brackets to fit the 172 uprights, so they'll need to come apart for that. I was planning on doing something with the suspension, either Koni or Bilstein, so it was likely to get pretty expensive either way. I'll know more when they get here...

[Andrew Cooke]

Cut a wee hole in the cockpit air intake box which allowed the engine to be sat in the right place - not bolted yet as it's still only on 2 of the 3 mounts. Bolted on the 172 uprights and brakes to check the driveshaft plunge, so far it seems OK although the camber is silly with the 172 dampers. I think I'll modify the 172 uprights to fit the Twingo dampers. I also balanced the front panel in place to see if the alternator clears. It's close, so I'll think about whether to leave it, modify the bracket further, or just cut a hole in the front panel.

note the 5 lurking in the background, I think it might be sulking:cry:

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/hole1.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/hole2.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/hole3.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/dummy%20build.jpg
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/dummy%20build%202.jpghttp://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Andrew%20Cooke%27s%20stuff/Twingo/dummy%20build%203.jpg

[Big Steve - Raider]

:eek: That looks a bit of a tight squeeze at the front Andy??

Do you think that you're going to have enough room for the OE rad or will you need a smaller custom one??

Great thread BTW, really enjoyable reading about every little step of your new project! :niceone:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Crazyyyyyyyy :smokin: looks good mate...

[Andrew Cooke]

:eek: That looks a bit of a tight squeeze at the front Andy??

Do you think that you're going to have enough room for the OE rad or will you need a smaller custom one??

Great thread BTW, really enjoyable reading about every little step of your new project! :niceone:

I think the rad will be fine, it's about the same size as the original rad, but the fan is thinner.. 'keep thinking positive thoughts' :laugh:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Will you have to modifi your trans shafts or will the wheel base match the 172 with the mounting place of the engine? if running running 172 bones etc? would look crazy that...:D

[Andrew Cooke]

Will you have to modifi your trans shafts or will the wheel base match the 172 with the mounting place of the engine? if running running 172 bones etc? would look crazy that...:D

track width is about the same as the 172. I plan on using standard 172 shafts

[Andrew Cooke]

my suspension isn't here yet, but I finally found a pic of the kit
http://caprico.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/images/2008/09/10/img_5791.jpg

uses Bilstein monotubes :) never mind the length, feel the width.
http://caprico.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/images/2008/09/10/img_5810.jpg

[Spooky]

oops, looks like the cheap build has gone out of the window, just ordered a set of H&R coilovers :sad2:

good man :D

[Bod]

Not much change out of a grand:wasntme:

[Andrew Cooke]

just been into work to pick up my ECU, it's been there since Tuesday. No obvious mods to the inside, so the unlocking is all software. £158 delivered. I'm running out of excuses for not getting on with it :scared:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

No cocking around here..... should be running sunday :D.....

[ScottGT]

:eek:HOLY SH*T:eek:

Now whats what i call a conversion!!!
So just out of interest how much does an old shape twingo weigh?

[Andrew Cooke]

:eek:HOLY SH*T:eek:

Now whats what i call a conversion!!!
So just out of interest how much does an old shape twingo weigh?

apparently it's 790Kg :smokin:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

790 :) whats this work out at with 172 gear? dont tell me this is with :scratch:

[Andrew Cooke]

790 :) whats this work out at with 172 gear? dont tell me this is with :scratch:

no idea, it's gaining weight all the time, brakes, wheels, exhaust etc are all heavy. Gotta end up 200Kg lighter than the clio though

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Still be alot lighter over a 172... give you 12months and its on plastic and diet...:)

[Andrew Cooke]

Still be alot lighter over a 172... give you 12months and its on plastic and diet...:)

hopefully not, I'd like it to look and sound innocuous, but occasionally I think it should sound like this :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gv3JmO1l5M&feature=related

[alister]

A friend of mine had a 172 with afew things done to it, some tuning company or others stage whatever, and it sounded amazing, it used to growl when he put his foot down, I hated the look of the car but loved the sound of it!

[Andrew Cooke]

A friend of mine had a 172 with afew things done to it, some tuning company or others stage whatever, and it sounded amazing, it used to growl when he put his foot down, I hated the look of the car but loved the sound of it!

good info:crap:

[Andrew Cooke]

just took a couple of shots of the inside of the clio.

The first shows the wiring behind the dash that needs picking through for a couple of wires, well, OK, 9 wires.

Second shows some of the useless crap that falls out of a 'stripped' car :sad2:

[Andrew Cooke]

For a quick 5 minute job this morning I thought I'd swap the clio fuel collector/pump into the Twingo. The Clio one came out without too much drama, but the Twingo one still has me stumped.

I've finally got around to tackling the engine mount, it's almost done now.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

http://www.renaultoloog.nl/autosport%20twingo%20helmut%20kellner%2001.JPG

Saw this on the net andy.. perhaps a paint sceme for your sport twingo...

[Andrew Cooke]

http://www.renaultoloog.nl/autosport%20twingo%20helmut%20kellner%2001.JPG

Saw this on the net andy.. perhaps a paint sceme for your sport twingo...
:chuckup:

[TURBO'D CLIO]

This is gonna be so great, can't wait to see it run...

You good a wiring it up cookie ? Feel free to do my volvo loom :cooter:

[Andrew Cooke]

wiring? nothing to it:scared: I've got pages of notes, think it'll be pretty straight forward.

finished the welding on the mount, think it'll do, need to get some bolts of the right length.

[TURBO'D CLIO]

Ha first pic, welding over a can of brake cleaner :rob:

That mount looks good mate, i reakon u wanna crank up the amps on your welder and run another bead of weld across the top and bottom of that pole where it joins to the flat plate... Then engine kicks out some power - dont want it falling out at 100 mph lol :D

[Andrew Cooke]

oops, a real welder checking out my pigeon strike :laugh:

That was welded on maximum, it's pretty thick steel for my hobby welder. I was thinking about adding some verticals, not sure, may still do. I have the rear mount to remake tomorrow, I'm going to convert it to underslung so that I can use the 172 manifold unmodified.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Andrew, are you not going for the 182 manifold over the 172 manifold?

[Brigsy]

Good work, Can't wait to see it finished:agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

Andrew, are you not going for the 182 manifold over the 172 manifold?

172, 2 reasons, 1st, it's what I've got. 2nd, I wasn't sure how much butchering was needed, more pipes will be more butchering, it's hard enough to fit as it is. I'm trying not to get sucked into the clio tuning world of spending £100 to get 3hp.

[Ashy]

172, 2 reasons, 1st, it's what I've got. 2nd, I wasn't sure how much butchering was needed, more pipes will be more butchering, it's hard enough to fit as it is. I'm trying not to get sucked into the clio tuning world of spending £100 to get 3hp.

Good idea, 182 manifolds swap hands for around £250hp!

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I think the 182 manifold take up less room than the 172 manifold... hence the idea...

Cant remember tho, i had a 182 manifold but couldn't be arsed to fit to the 172.

I only paid £80 for mine tho, you can get them alot less than £250 that they go for on cliosport...

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Is the 182 mani the same as the RS? or the ported jansport?

[Andrew Cooke]

Is the 182 mani the same as the RS? or the ported jansport?

intake, not sure, mine isn't an RS inlet.

[TURBO'D CLIO]

oops, a real welder checking out my pigeon strike :laugh:

That was welded on maximum, it's pretty thick steel for my hobby welder. I was thinking about adding some verticals, not sure, may still do. I have the rear mount to remake tomorrow, I'm going to convert it to underslung so that I can use the 172 manifold unmodified.

I aint dissing it mate, just saying you wanna run another couple of runs accross either side just keep building it up untill the weld is level with the pole if ya get me...

Credit to you thou mate, this is one very interesting topic and cant wait to see your wiring progress, this really is gonna be one pocket rocket... :cool:

[Andrew Cooke]

I aint dissing it mate, just saying you wanna run another couple of runs accross either side just keep building it up untill the weld is level with the pole if ya get me...

Credit to you thou mate, this is one very interesting topic and cant wait to see your wiring progress, this really is gonna be one pocket rocket... :cool:

it's all good, I appreciate the input. Half of the reason for this thread is to provoke comment :)

[Andrew Cooke]

This morning's project... rear mount.

A few days back I noticed that there was a block of ballast hidden inside the subframe, it was built in, and much as it offended me I decided to ignore it. In moving the engine mount to the bottom of the subframe I decided to weld in a thicker plate, this presented the opportunity to open the frame up and remove the offending ballast - NVH be dammed :laugh:

pictures:

- opening up the subframe
- removing the ballast
- assorted ballast removed so far
- subframe plate welded
- rear mount started, part R5 mount, part 2x1 box

[Andrew Cooke]

my suspension turned up from Germany today, off to the pub to celebrate :laugh:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

:cool: cooooooooolllllllllllllll.....

[Matt Cole]

Get on with it Cooke!!!:agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

Get on with it Cooke!!!:agree:

should be running by Sunday :laugh:

[TURBO'D CLIO]

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=1960&d=1240150786

Thats a nice tidy job there mate, good work...

This is gonna be a mad project, those coil overs look fat.... :niceone:

[Mart]

should be running by Sunday :laugh:

Easter Sunday, 2012 ? :dearme: ;)

[James5]

Is it running yet then Andrew?

[alister]

I asked my friend about the clio 172 he used to have, he was as useless as me about info. All it had was aftermarket filter in standard box, make unknown, a stainless exhaust, make unknown(had factory cat fitted still) and a remap, apparantly was 190bhp, sounded great tho.

The one thing I noticed was that the inlet manifold got really hot, I know the japboys fit thermal gaskets on type r manifolds to stop this, not sure if the same thing can be done on the 172.

[Andrew Cooke]

I asked my friend about the clio 172 he used to have, he was as useless as me about info. All it had was aftermarket filter in standard box, make unknown, a stainless exhaust, make unknown(had factory cat fitted still) and a remap, apparantly was 190bhp, sounded great tho.

The one thing I noticed was that the inlet manifold got really hot, I know the japboys fit thermal gaskets on type r manifolds to stop this, not sure if the same thing can be done on the 172.

Hill Power (or something like that) do PTFE gaskets. Just keep the throttle open and let the airflow keep it cool :D

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

nice little project you've got going here.

not sure the cliosport lot will like it though, no silver visions, yozza exhaust or turinis!

so is this going be your daily runner and how long do you think it's going to take to finish it competely?

[markey b]

nice little project you've got going here.

not sure the cliosport lot will like it though, no silver visions, yozza exhaust or turinis!

so is this going be your daily runner and how long do you think it's going to take to finish it competely?


are ya gonna cover it in GDI stickers and 'detail it' so that you have more chance of getting it on cliosport?

[Andrew Cooke]

Cliosport may grow to love it :D

It will be a daily driver, as to how long it'll take to complete, I doubt it'll ever be complete, but I'd like it running ASAP.

I've been a bit distracted recently:hump:, but hopefully I can play a bit without without being distracted over the bank holiday, ok, well, maybe get some time off to play.:rolleyes:

I recieved the engine mounting bolts, so could finally tighten the engine mount. The rear mount still needs finishing (still not managed to get a suitable mount to modify). The rear 'mount' is sat on a jack so that I can still play a little with the final position. The exhaust was a bit close to the floor, so I leant the engine a bit further back, and the exhaust now looks perfect, it's also given me a bit more space around the front of the engine.:agree:

The gearlinkage clashes with the cat, so it looks like I'll be using the 172 linkage as that fits tighter to the floor than the Twingo one.

I've also been playing with the fuel pump/collector/regulator. The PH2 172 has the regulator in the tank, I'd hoped to just drop the 172 collector into the Twingo tank, it's not as easy as that as the Twingo tank has walls around the pickup that clash with the clio collector. I'm not sure if the tanks are close enough in depth to allow the 172 collector to be used if I cut the walls out . I'd hoped that I could graft the regulator on the twingo collector, but it's moulded in, so not really possible. So, I have a few choices:

1 - cut out the walls and use the 172 collector - need to confirm depth, and I'm not sure how sucessful the cutting will be...

2 - get a PH1 fuel rail and regulator and use the Twingo collector (maybe with the 172 pump fitted - if it will fit)

3 - fit a 3 bar regulator on the bulkhead keeping the PH2 fuel rail, and the Twingo collector.

Anyone got any useful bits or suggestions?

Pictures show the plenum dropped onto the engine with the engine in it's new reclined position, there are cms to spare, and it looks like the bonnet will not need to have a bulge :) Not much space to get the inlet pipe in, but a bit of hacksaw work will see something fitting..

[Lewis]

Surely options to 2 and 3 make the most sense as it will allow you to keep the standard fuel gauge?If you did manage to fit the 172 tank sender/pump/regulator unit into the twingo tank you'd have to run an aftermarket fuel gauge and I thought you didnt want the dash cluttered with extras?Plus option one sounds like a right arse ache.

[TURBO'D CLIO]

Not much space to get the inlet pipe in, but a bit of hacksaw work will see something fitting..

You know i kinda admire you in the way that nothing bothers you one bit, if it don't fit you will make it fit.. Thats the exact attitude you need on a project like this and so far it looks impressive...

When you take the twingo sender unit out is there a pump strapped to the side of the sender unit ?
Just i know where there is a company who does after market higher flow fuel pumps to the exact size of say your twingo one... :agree:

Rob

[James5]

Andrew, in my trip to my local scrappy today looking for ICV to which I had no success as it looked someone had already pilferd them all:crap: (will just control idle with the throttle body adjuster for the accelrtor for now) anyway I managed to get a bosch 3bar fpr and the clip that goes in the phase 1 rail if you want them there yours.

[Andrew Cooke]

Andrew, in my trip to my local scrappy today looking for ICV to which I had no success as it looked someone had already pilferd them all:crap: (will just control idle with the throttle body adjuster for the accelrtor for now) anyway I managed to get a bosch 3bar fpr and the clip that goes in the phase 1 rail if you want them there yours.

that'd be great, I don't suppose you managed to get the bit of fuel pipe with the joiner for the fuel rail? :D

[James5]

that'd be great, I don't suppose you managed to get the bit of fuel pipe with the joiner for the fuel rail? :D


I got about 5-6" of the small bit of the pipe that has the push on type fitment.

[Andrew Cooke]

I got about 5-6" of the small bit of the pipe that has the push on type fitment.

I'm a bit lost, can you take a picture?

[James5]

I'm a bit lost, can you take a picture?


Let me go find the camera:cooter:


Edit - Picture added

[Andrew Cooke]

that's perfect, you're a star :)

[TURBO'D CLIO]

Running yet andrew ? :cool:

[Andrew Cooke]

I've been a bit slack on the 'actual work' front, but have been gathering a few odds and ends. Thanks to James for the requlator, clip, and pipe :) I bought a 172 PH1 fuel rail from Renault, this moves the regulator from the tank to the engine, and allows me to use the Twingo collector with the 172 pump in the tank. I also bought a new Twingo fuel filter, and 172 Cup rear brake pressure regulator as I intend to use the 172 rear brakes without ABS. I also bought some 8mm ID fuel pipe to make up the fuel lines, unfortunately I screwed up the size of the clips, so need to get some more of the right size :ashamed:

This evenings 'actual work' has been making up parts for the rear engine mount. But first I did the nice easy job of fitting the top mounts onto the front coilovers - turned out to be a real fiddle to get them to seat correctly, but it's done now :brickwall:

In a previous post I'd modified a GTT rear mount buy cutting and welding some 2x1 box onto it, the engine is currently sat in place with a jack under that mount, the angles have been tweeked to make the exhaust line up nicely. To make the rest of the engine part of the mount I bought a Powerflex universal poly mount - the biggest they did, and 'found' some 2" bar and some 2" box. First job tonight was to drop the box into the mill, and with a 44mm hole saw cut semicircles out of the end. Next was to bore the 2" bar out to 38mm to fit the bush, I cut the end off, and turned it down to 60mm long. Finally I turned the centre down to 44mm so that it sat nicely on the end of the 2" box. Sounds simple enough, but that took me all evening :crap:

[Ashy]

I bought a 172 PH1 fuel rail from Renault

You shoulda asked!! How much did that cost?

[Andrew Cooke]

You shoulda asked!! How much did that cost?

do I have to think of everything :laugh:

was about £15

I've booked the 29th off, will you be at the Pod?

[Andrew Cooke]

I had 2 choices with the drive train, use the twingo driveshafts, hubs, and suspension, and make a caliper bracket so that the 172 brakes could be used, or use the 172 driveshafts, hubs, and brakes, adapting the hubs to 172 the Twingo suspension. I'm going to try the latter, and hopefully the 172 shafts will work out OK.

The 172 is a fair bit beefier than the Twingo stuff, the obvious differences are that the hub is 3mm thicker where the damper bolts on, uses 14mm bolts instead of 12mm bolts, and has 54mm between bolt centres rather than 52mm.

First things first, I need to machine some thickness off the 172 damper mount. I've been wondering how this could be done on my mill for a while, this is what I came up with.

-clamped a bit of tool plate in the vice, and ran a cutter over the top face to true it up.

-drilled 2x 10.5mm holes 54mm apart, tapped them M12, and counterbored 14mm dia

-made 2 steel dowels 14mm OD, 12mm ID, and pressed them into the counterbores

-sat the hub over the dowels and fitted 1 M12 bolt, this allows me to machine 1.5mm off the face where the bolt isn't, then move the bolt to the second hole to continue machining off the rest of the face. 1 bolts holds in down OK, and the dowels stop anything spinning.

-flip the hub over and machine 1.5mm off the other side in the same way.

[Ashy]

Some inspiration for you Andy...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/Gezpuntogt3/Image1382.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/Gezpuntogt3/Image1383.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/Gezpuntogt3/Image1389.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/Gezpuntogt3/Image1391.jpg

[FQ200turbo]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

did you already remove the cap from the fuel tank ? im having the same problem in my twingo turbo... lol

[Andrew Cooke]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

did you already remove the cap from the fuel tank ? im having the same problem in my twingo turbo... lol

problems removing the pipes? I got them off, but have since bought a tool off ebay, not tried it yet....

like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-PRO-TOOLS-3pc-FUEL-LINE-COUPLING-PLIERS-SET-plier_W0QQitemZ380131892455QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_M easuring_Tools_Levels?hash=item5881a05ce7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

[FQ200turbo]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)


problems removing the pipes? I got them off, but have since bought a tool off ebay, not tried it yet....

like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-PRO-TOOLS-3pc-FUEL-LINE-COUPLING-PLIERS-SET-plier_W0QQitemZ380131892455QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_M easuring_Tools_Levels?hash=item5881a05ce7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

no, the cap to get the fuel pump

[Andrew Cooke]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)



no, the cap to get the fuel pump

ahhh, big screwdriver and a hammer:laugh:

[FQ200turbo]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)


ahhh, big screwdriver and a hammer:laugh:

loool :D

[Andrew Cooke]

I've not totally stopped working on it, only almost....

I've been swapping the 172 gear linkage into the Twingo to give clearance to the cat, I may still need to tweek the length, not sure yet.

The rear mount is coming along nicely, as soon as I get a free evening where I'm not roped into being a removal man, drunk, dinner guest etc. I'll have a crack at welding in on. I'll take some pics when there is something more to show.

Drilled the bottom damper mount to 14mm and offset a mm to fit the 172 hubs, I'll leave the top one until I bolt everything up and check the camber.

Added a bit more bracing to the fabricated front engine mount - it's location was a bit undefined, it won't be once I weld the bits on...

[Ashy]

The rear mount is coming along nicely, as soon as I get a free evening where I'm not roped into being a removal man, drunk, dinner guest etc.

Being a socialite seems to be hampering your progress Andrew!

[Andrew Cooke]

Being a socialite seems to be hampering your progress Andrew!

tell me about it :sad:

National day is just around the corner, and I really want to play on the track.

[Andrew Cooke]

no, I'm not going to sit in your garden eating ice cream, I'm going to do some welding....

The rear mount is now pretty much tacked in place, the new bush housing is tacked onto the subframe, and now just needs tacking onto the bracket on the engine. I'm looking forward to removing the engine and subframe so that I can weld everything the right way up. I don't like being showered with sparks :cry:

Back to being a removal man / socialite tomorrow night, but might get chance to play more on Friday evening/ Saturday morning.

[Mart]

Looking forward to seeing this at ND mate.

Chop chop ;)

[Ashy]

kin'ell thats gona be a stiff rear mount!!

[Andrew Cooke]

kin'ell thats gona be a stiff rear mount!!

big engine + small car = not much space for engine to flop about in :D

The poly mount is pretty thick, I can always drill holes in it to soften it off a bit, that said, I'll bet it's not as stiff as a mini engine mount. (certainly not as stiff as the mount in my GTT :laugh: )

[Matt Cole]

kin'ell thats gona be a stiff rear mount!!

We need to build him a REAL mount marrow!

;)

[Andrew Cooke]

Tonights fun..

finished tacking up the rear mount.
pulled the engine out
removed the subframe
did a bit of bracket welding
checked the cam timing, it's out so I need to set it right.
pulled off the gearbox, checked the clutch, it looks to have been replaced, as has the flywheel, all OK.
removed the flywheel to check the crank seal, it's weaping, so it looks like I know why the bottom of the engine/gearbox is oily.

[Scoff]

I have a home made cam alignment tool, if you need a loan.

[Spooky]

I need to do the cambelt on my 172, any takers...*cough cough...SCOFF*...:laugh:

[Scoff]

lol, drop me a pm if you need to loan it spooks.

[Andrew Cooke]

I have a home made cam alignment tool, if you need a loan.

I have an alignment tool, need to make something to lock the cam pullies and crank.

Any idea what the part number for the crank seal is?

[Spooky]

PM...:D

[Lewis]

Any idea what the part number for the crank seal is?

77 03 087 224 CRANK SEAL M2 £14.81


Double check that before ordering though.

[Scoff]

8mm punch or rod to lock the crank off (feed it through the block, bottom right hand corner at the front behind the star head bolt).

I have the cam locking tool, albeit home brew, or you can buy the real tool from ebay these days it seems.

[Scoff]

But you mean the tool to lock the pulleys themselves. I've never bothered though, you find that if you de-grease the mating surfaces as you are supposed to, then lube the bolt, the pulleys do not turn as you torque them up.

[Andrew Cooke]

8mm punch or rod to lock the crank off (feed it through the block, bottom right hand corner at the front behind the star head bolt).

I have the cam locking tool, albeit home brew, or you can buy the real tool from ebay these days it seems.

I've got the ebay C shaped cam alignment tool, and pin for the crank. I'll probably make something to lock the pullies, it's only a couple of triangular bits of ally and a bolt.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I've got the cam locking kit from when i did Millie's if you want a lend!? :D

[Andrew Cooke]

77 03 087 224 CRANK SEAL M2 £14.81


Double check that before ordering though.

that number seemed to work ok, ordered the crank seal, camshaft bungs, and new bumper bolts. The seals and bungs were on the shelf, but the bolts will be in on Thursday, guess that's a road trip on Thursday lunchtime then...

I'm thinking about replacing the steering arms, trackrod ends, wishbones, bushes, and bottom ball joints.

[Matt Cole]

iv'e just done the crank seal on the 225. I had to drive the seal in a couple of mm further to miss the deep scoring from the original seal. Seems to be ok.

[Matt Cole]

Oh and just thought, can you do a guide andy on the procedure to do the belt etc. I bet a few peeps would be interested.:agree:

[Ashy]

Oh and just thought, can you do a guide andy on the procedure to do the belt etc. I bet a few peeps would be interested.:agree:

its in the workshop manual marrow... HERE
(http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Ashy%20172%20turbo/172_pdf%5B1%5D.pdf)

[Spooky]

nice one ashy, thatll come in handy :agree:

[Matt Cole]

its in the workshop manual marrow... HERE
(http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Ashy%20172%20turbo/172_pdf%5B1%5D.pdf)

Ah ok thanks chief!

[Andrew Cooke]

iv'e just done the crank seal on the 225. I had to drive the seal in a couple of mm further to miss the deep scoring from the original seal. Seems to be ok.

you can do the same thing on the c1j :agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

reached a bit of a milestone tonight, I assembled the first parts :)

Ok, it wasn't much, just fitted the crank seal and refitted the flywheel, clutch and gearbox.

Ordered some more parts today:

Wishbones with bushes and bottom ball joints
trackrods with trackrod ends
water pump

none of the bits had failed, but were feeling tired. I bought all OEM stuff rather than noname ebay stuff, cost a bit more, but I want it to last.

I hope noone expects to see bling under my bonnet :laugh:

[Spooky]

Mr Cooke, if you're about one evenin' I may come and have a gange :D

[Andrew Cooke]

Mr Cooke, if you're about one evenin' I may come and have a gange :D

give it a couple of weeks, it's a bit like an explosion in a parts factory at the moment, hopefully it'll look more like a car by then :)

[Spooky]

Cool beans, plus it'd give me a chance to pick your brain on a couple of things :)

[Andrew Cooke]

chance to pick your brain on a couple of things :)

the truth always outs eventually :D

[Spooky]

oh i plan to take advantage of my time :D

[Andrew Cooke]

a wee bit of fettling tonight;

the fuel tank now has a 172 pump in it, a bit of a fiddle, but it'll be OK....

I made a gizmo for locking the cam pullies in place, worked very well for undoing the nuts. It's too dark out for setting the cam timing, but it should be a doddle now:scared: I'll try and take some pics of it in the daylight.

If DHL is to be believed I'll be getting the wishbones, trackrods, water pump etc delivered tomorrow. It's a pity the weather is looking dodgy for the weekend.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I've got 172 Cam Locking tools? :innocent:

[Andrew Cooke]

I've got 172 Cam Locking tools? :innocent:

so have I now :D

[Os8472]

Less tlaking more building please:D

[Andrew Cooke]

the cam timing decided to bite me in the bum, the wee allen key thing on the tensioner decided to snap off as I was finishing the job off - time for a deep breath and a coffee..

The mounts are now fully welded:agree:

I stripped the wishbones off the subframe, they came apart very easily, and as a bonus I can't believe how light the twingo subframe is, I can easily lift it up and over my head with one arm :sad2:

I pulled the water pump, I'm glad I ordered a new one as it looks to have been weeping from the lower drain hole. As an aside there seems to be a difference of opinion on whether you should swap the water pump when swapping the cam belt. I think I probably would in future.

Just need to work out how to get the trackrods off the rack (see http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=8966 )

[Andrew Cooke]

Just remembered that I was going to upload a picture of my home made pulley locking gizmo

[Andrew Cooke]

cripes, not long until national day, I need to get my finger out :eek:

tonight's jobs:

-refit subframe
-try and remove trackrods - got bored, gave up
-set cam timing, fitted covers and bungs
-fitted new water pump
-filled front engine mounts with 'tiger seal' to stiffen them up somewhat
-swapped the top mounts on the coilovers to the Twingo ones - the 172 ones looked similar, but weren't the same
-had a quick look at the alternator mount, I'm going to make the tensioning stick out of some of the bits I bought to make traction bars out of.
-got dumped

[Spooky]

cripes, not long until national day, I need to get my finger out :eek:

-got dumped

ive got a big tent :laugh:

[Mart]

got dumped

Sh1tter. Sorry to hear mate :(

On the bright side, at least you can now concentrate on getting your motor sorted in time for ND :agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

On the bright side, at least you can now concentrate on getting your motor sorted in time for ND :agree:

exactly, the big push is on and I'm looking into guilt free quality shed time :D

[James5]

Sh1tter. Sorry to hear mate :(

On the bright side, at least you can now concentrate on getting your motor sorted in time for ND :agree:


Sorry to hear that matey, but as Mart says there is a bright side plenty of more time now to plough into the Twingo. Looking forward to seeing this @ Nat Day matey burning up Mallory Park.

[Andrew Cooke]

Tonights jobs:

- swapped the trackrods, what an epic, my grips weren't really man enough, so I ended up welding lumps on to give them something to bite into. Done now, but next time I'd remove the rack and get it in a big vice.

- answered the phone, big mistake, ended up sitting through a post mortem....

- cracked on with the alternator tensioner. I refitted the loom, engine mount, and alternator to check what goes where. A bit of welding, sawing, drilling and tapping saw the tensioner roughed out. It needs a bit of detailing, but it looks like it'll work well. Finding a L/H 3/8 UNF tap was fun :sad2:

tomorrow night depends upon the weather, but hopefully I'll finish the alternator tensioner and paint some stuff.

[Matt Cole]

We need photos!!:cool:

[Andrew Cooke]

We need photos!!:cool:

lol, not much to take pictures of, but I'll take a couple when I get chance.

Just ordered a pair or Brembo HC disks and DS2500 pads, I wasn't going to bother, but I'd be a bit peeved when the brakes faded after 3 laps of Mallory.

[James5]

Andrew, So looking forward to seeing this going around Mallory, wonder what it will handle like.

[Andrew Cooke]

just on the phone to the insurance co, currently on hold...

"so, this engine change, roughly how many percent more power than the standard one does it make, 5%, 10%, 15%?"

"about 300%"

"I'll go and speak to our underwriter..."

:laugh:

[BriC]

just on the phone to the insurance co, currently on hold...

"so, this engine change, roughly how many percent more power than the standard one does it make, 5%, 10%, 15%?"

"about 300%"

"I'll go and speak to our underwriter..."

:laugh:

:laugh:

[Spooky]

:burnrubber:

[Andrew Cooke]

hmmm, they don't sound interested in insuring it. Oh well, back to Flux, any other suggestions?

[Bigfoot]

http://www.graham-sykes.co.uk/

Try them if you dont have much luck with others, they didn't have any problems with insuring me with all vehicle changes when Flux wouldn't insure me when I got my car at first.

[Spooky]

who did you ring And ?

liverpool victoria ?

hic ?

i wouldnt know as i dont use either of them at the mo :laugh:

[Andrew Cooke]

who did you ring And ?

liverpool victoria ?

hic ?

i wouldnt know as i dont use either of them at the mo :laugh:

that was tesco, just on the phone to flux...

[James5]

hmmm, they don't sound interested in insuring it. Oh well, back to Flux, any other suggestions?

:laugh:300%

Performance Direct insured my 5 with the F4r lump with an agreed valuation. It was cheaper to Insurer than my orginal C1J with all the mods on that delcared.

[Spooky]

the best way is ring about i suppose :crap:

how far along are you with the car, she running ?

and what day you coming up ?

[Andrew Cooke]

OK, flux want £658 TPFT since I've only got 12 months no claims on the second car. Think I'll try performance direct, and see what happens

I hate ringing around insurance companies - last claim 1985 I think:scratch:

[Andrew Cooke]

the best way is ring about i suppose :crap:

how far along are you with the car, she running ?

and what day you coming up ?

I wasting build time on the phone, it's looking tight to get it finished, engine still on the floor... I plan to drive up on Friday, I think I'll get breakdown cover, never had it before:sad2:

[Gymnast]

HIC have always been pretty good for me ... also you should get a discount if you mention you're an RTOC member ... :)

My insurance is £400 FC, agreed £4K value ... but that is a restricted mileage classic car policy

[Spooky]

Well, if you can get the car mobile, itll be a good test drive upto Mallory :D

If you were going Saturday, I'd meet up with you...with a tow rope and tow bar just in case.

Join the AA for around 7-8 quid a month for breakdown/recovery.

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Performance Direct seem the winners to me, they reflect your NC over aswell..

[Andrew Cooke]

Performance Direct seem the winners to me, they reflect your NC over aswell..

I've dropped into their pinball machine, I'm current being bounced off cushions and kicked into the thing that goes ding ding ding :sad2:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Leave it to a rainy day Andy, get building, speaking of which i really should get out of bed and hunt around some scrap yards for a z6 :ashamed:

[r5 rich]

green light insurance I am with, they beat flux and other companies by 400 on engine conversion car!

[Andrew Cooke]

green light insurance I am with, they beat flux and other companies by 400 on engine conversion car!

Excluded vehicles



BMW E36 models - (E30/E46 derivatives are still acceptable)
Citroen Saxo models
Ford Sierra RS500 model
Honda S2000, Integra DC2 & DC5 imports (UK DC2's are acceptable)
Lotus Elise/Exige
Nissan 200SX/Silvia models (All)
Porsche (except Boxster)
Renault Clio 172 “Cup” (non-ABS) model - (All other 172 derivatives are acceptable)
Skoda Fabia/Octavia models
TVR (all models)
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
LHD vehicles (except Golf Rallye and Lancia Delta)
Vehicles not listed by The Association Of British Insurers (ABI) (http://www.thatcham.org/abigrouprating/)


The above have been excluded based upon our historic claims performance with the specific models listed above - Most other Performance model vehicles are currently acceptable. We reserve the right not to offer a quotation. We are unable to offer quotations to existing customers by this method. Greenlight Insurance have been trading within the specialist vehicle Insurance market since our launch in 1996 and our target market has always been that of specialist vehicles for the enthusiast, whether it is a Modified Car, Track Car, Custom, Hot Hatch, Performance Car or Kit Car.


I guess a LHD car with parts from a non ABS clio 172 would be excluded then...

[Mart]

Andy, give Keith Michael Ins' Co. a call, and if possible, speak to a guy called Jeremy (Jez). He used to own a gtt, was a member on here (so mention you're an old timer from rtoc, or something), he gave me a good discount on the Evo's insurance, and might be able to sort something out for you.

[Andrew Cooke]

just for Matt, a picture

Brembo HC disks and DS2500 pads, heavy stuff:cry:

[Matt Cole]

just for Matt, a picture

Brembo HC disks and DS2500 pads, heavy stuff:cry:

Nice!:D

What size are the discs? I could'nt believe the weight difference between standard and 285's!

[Andrew Cooke]

Nice!:D

What size are the discs? I could'nt believe the weight difference between standard and 285's!

280mm I think, it's all 172 stuff

and I'm removing 239x8mm disks, so these are something like 3x the weight (I guess that ties up with having 3x the power :cool:)

[Gymnast]

these are something like 3x the weight

Get the drill out ;)

[Andrew Cooke]

Get the drill out ;)

I did think that if I didn't get around to fitting them I could attach them to a length of chain and chuck 'em out the back