View Full Version : Oil not reaching the rocker?
After putting the 5gt back together after a recent headgasket change & oil change I turned the car over and besides it being a little tappy all seemed well.
Whilst leaving the car to idle I checked the oil filler cap and there was no oil under the rocker cover area. :scratch:
The gauge next the temp on the dash shows the oil at constant 4, I presume this is the pressure?
Any ideas as to what this could be, as I dont fancy taking off the sump to refurb the oil pump if its not that.
Its killing me trying to get this thing on the road!!!!! :mad:
Cheers in advance.
Mike
out of interest, did you take the rocker gear apart at any point during the rebuild.?
Yeh so the head was left with just the valves and no rocker gear, so i could have it skimmed.
Yeh so the head was left with just the valves and no rocker gear, so i could have it skimmed.
ok but did you actually disassemble the rocker gear? as in take the shaft out so everything separates.?
i ask this because one of the solid bits that bolts to the head has a hole in it for the oil to travel up and through. im just thinking if youve had it apart you may have refitted the bit in the wrong location.? just a thought.
Cheers for that Raj, I took off what i call the 'rocker rail' runs the nearly the full length of the head and has washers for the cylinder head bolts.
I will take a photo of mine tonight and let you guys see what you think. Hope fully I have bolted it up wrong. :sos:
Andrew Cooke
25-02-2009, 13:03
did you fit the headgasket upside down? is that even possible?
did you fit the headgasket upside down? is that even possible?
No im sure of that, it says on the gasket which way it goes and I did it with a mate who is fairly competent.
where does the oil pressure reading come from? the bottom end or top? :scratch:
Andrew Cooke
25-02-2009, 13:12
the oil pressure is measured below the gasket. I don't suppose you took any pictures as you were putting it together?
So if there is a pressure reading this suggests the pump is ok?
Tbh I dont think I did, I maye have one or two little cheeky shots at home which il have a look on the laptop for.
This has totally stumped me!
I cant see how the oil cant make its way to the top!
I had this on an engine I bought, a so called expert tunner, I won't say which CAMBRIDGE REBORES had fitted the rocker shaft turned 90degrees meaning the hole in it didn't line up with the hole in the pedistal oh and they fitted a campus oil pump, make sure the shaft is in the right position, it shuld have a half circle cut out at eash end which lines up with the bolt that holds the shaft in place.
As far as I know thats the only direct oil feed from the bottom end up, thats why I fill my cam followers with oil during a rebuild and pour oil over the rocker asembly just before I start a new engine, its abit anal I know but better to be safe than sorry.
Andrew Cooke
25-02-2009, 20:13
As far as I know thats the only direct oil feed from the bottom end up, thats why I fill my cam followers with oil during a rebuild and pour oil over the rocker asembly just before I start a new engine, its abit anal I know but better to be safe than sorry.
you mean you put oil in your engine? always a good idea to put oil in the engine before you start it.
you mean you put oil in your engine? always a good idea to put oil in the engine before you start it.
No I mean pour it over the whole rocker assmebly and not just in the oil cap
Tiny Tim
25-02-2009, 20:18
No I mean pour it over the whole rocker assmebly and not just in the oil cap
Yeah, you might want to sprinkle a tad more in there too...
Andrew Cooke
25-02-2009, 20:26
No I mean pour it over the whole rocker assmebly and not just in the oil cap
you must use thin oil, I've never been able to put oil in the engine without filling the rocker cover and having to wait for the oil to find it's way into the sump.
you must use thin oil, I've never been able to put oil in the engine without filling the rocker cover and having to wait for the oil to find it's way into the sump.
I use 15/40w I never just fill the oil throught the cap, I take the rocker cover off and pour the oil over the whole lot lot, takes ages to get through
Cool I hope it is just that then! :agree:
Thanks guys I will keep you posted.
Hi guys! I cant really see anything, but your eyes are better than mine! I dont fully understand how the oil makes it up if the rocker assembly covers the hole? Heres are some pics, let me know and I can take some more.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/misky88/PICT0583.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/misky88/PICT0584.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/misky88/PICT0586.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/misky88/PICT0587.jpg
michael tierney
26-02-2009, 20:02
remove your plugs and your rocker shaft assembly and spin the engine over with the starter.you should see oil coming up from a hole beside one of the rocker pedastil studs....if not u have a gaskit prob.:)
Matt@CodeRedMotorsports
26-02-2009, 20:24
I use and old dizzy drive with the gear machned off, a stub welded to it and spin the oil pump with an elecric drill to prime my engine.
Iv seen the shaft and it wasnt lined up correctly. Finely tuned it, but still no oil.
Can i take the turbo oil feed off and see if there is any pressure? as i dnt want to take the head bolts off again as that will mean new gasket aswel and money is little tight tbh!
Just taken the turbo oil feed off and the pump is defo working.
If I have a gasket problem what can it be Michael?
As it can only go on one way! Im sooooooo confused! :scratch:
remove your plugs and your rocker shaft assembly and spin the engine over with the starter.you should see oil coming up from a hole beside one of the rocker pedastil studs....if not u have a gaskit prob.:)
misk im passing tomorrow as ive got to go bradford. if you can take the rocker shaft off and plugs out i can have a quick look.
michael tierney
27-02-2009, 22:39
theres only one locating dowel i think its in the middle so check along the head/block to see if its in line (straight)with the head.
THE MASTER
28-02-2009, 03:06
the head gask can be fitted upsidedown . wich could block the oil feed to the head .
if you run the engine with no rocker cover on your just looking for a splatter of oil . not loads of oil .....but you should have some oil
:popcorn:
THE MASTER
28-02-2009, 03:10
out of interest, did you take the rocker gear apart at any point during the rebuild.?
good point raj
there is one stool that feeds the oil into the shaft
:eek:
Hey guys! cheers for all the advice!
Big shout to Roy for dropping by and confirming my worse nightmare! lol
As they say 'off with the head' lol
Just when i saved all my insurance, tax & mot money i get this kick in the crown jewels!
Argh well an easy fix i supose! :crap:
Mike
it wont be a easy fix if you do it again :laugh:. just make sure all the holes line up along the head. or give us a shot of when you are going to refit the head and ill pop along.
so what was it? did you fit the h/gasket on upside down? lol
so what was it? did you fit the h/gasket on upside down? lol
Duno yet not taking the head off until the new gasket is here, so i can do it all in one day rather than loose bits lol.
Im guessing it went on wonkey! il let you know later next week!
it wont be a easy fix if you do it again :laugh:. just make sure all the holes line up along the head. or give us a shot of when you are going to refit the head and ill pop along.
lol cheers roy, yeh il defo be phoning you up! :agree:
Duno yet not taking the head off until the new gasket is here, so i can do it all in one day rather than loose bits lol.
Im guessing it went on wonkey! il let you know later next week!
misky, use an old headbolt with the bolt head cut off, screw it into any bolt hole other than the one with the locating dowel. your gasket will stay put:) its what ive always done.
also good to cut a slot in the end of the cut off bolt, so you ca use a screwdriver to get it out.
I did it with a mate who is fairly competent.
Bit of a gutwrench for him if the gasket has been fitted incorrectly.
Andrew Cooke
02-03-2009, 13:13
Bit of a gutwrench for him if the gasket has been fitted incorrectly.
you have to be wary of 'fairly competant' mates, they're the ones who leave washers on top of the pistons.
washers on top of the pistons.
you mean the free floating compression ratio manipulation device?
**** update***
Just taken the head off to find that the headgasket was on correct. :(
I turned over the car and covered the 'oil hole' but no oil came out. :scratch:
I know that the oil pump is working as before i took the head off i removed the turbo oil feed and cranked it which produced a pint of oil.
I then thought that the 'hole' might be blocked so i got a trust wire hanger and pushed i there was no oil on that though?
What can it be this is doin my nut in!! :mad:
Cheers.
**** update***
Just taken the head off to find that the headgasket was on correct. :(
I turned over the car and covered the 'oil hole' but no oil came out. :scratch:
I know that the oil pump is working as before i took the head off i removed the turbo oil feed and cranked it which produced a pint of oil.
I then thought that the 'hole' might be blocked so i got a trust wire hanger and pushed i there was no oil on that though?
What can it be this is doin my nut in!! :mad:
Cheers.
im presuming you checked the oil hole in the head before re fitting it and the hole on the engine block itself. i have just tried it and i can blow through both with ease. i know that the oil gallery has a head bolt that passes straight next to it mabe some swarf has dropped or got into either of the holes
Andrew Cooke
18-03-2009, 20:03
**** update***
I turned over the car and covered the 'oil hole' but no oil came out. :scratch:
did you refit the dizzy drive when you turned it over?
Hey Richie, Yeh the head hole was fine.
I think I found the problem! I used some welding wire on hole in the block and i think it was blocked! cranked it over anyway and oil came out! result!! :agree:
Time to put it back together!
For everyone that has helped me with advice on this, Thanks! Its great having you guys on here for this kinda stuff! :D
Mike.
If you've just poked a blockage out of the oil system, you really want to consider stripping it down and removing whatever it was before it ends up somewhere else and causes oil starvation or gets jammed in the crank bearings when you're doing 70mph...
If it's big enough to block the head oil supply, it's not going to end up in the oil filter - it's going to sit in the sump. At least do an oil change and see if it comes out the drain...
If you've just poked a blockage out of the oil system, you really want to consider stripping it down and removing whatever it was before it ends up somewhere else and causes oil starvation or gets jammed in the crank bearings when you're doing 70mph...
If it's big enough to block the head oil supply, it's not going to end up in the oil filter - it's going to sit in the sump. At least do an oil change and see if it comes out the drain...
Yeh thats what I have planned, doing it tonight. Got too dark to change the filter and drop the oil last night. Going to do this before the head even gets close to going back on.
i thought the oil feed to the head went via the cam... i think the diagram is in haynes manual. if it does then the particle that blocked it, might be now be stuck in the oil bath next to the cam.
I hope not! :sos:
Is there an easy way to check?
Andrew Cooke
19-03-2009, 13:33
**deleted due to creeping insanity**
The insanity has reached a new level!!!
Dropped the sump, changed oil/filter. Patical was not found, im guessing it was old oil clogged up as it was while since it ran & it was cheap asda oil last used.
Put head back on, new gasket/bolts etc etc.
Came to turn it over but it wont start!!!
You can hear the starter motor turn, but no spark!?
If there is a strater motor problem am I correct in saying this would not turn the dizzy gear thus not giving a spark?
What other checks can I do to get it started?
Checked the fuses, checked the king lead with spark plug, tried to jump start but to no avail also lightly knocked the starter motor.
Loosing the will to live!!!
:cry:
Alastair
23-03-2009, 11:22
Misky, a few questions:
Does the starter turn the engine over?
How did you test for a spark? I would suggest a sparkplug in king lead as you said, well earthed to the block (away from any fuel) where you can see it, ie not in direct sunlight as youll struggle to see the spark - turn engine over .
Do you have an immobiliser?
When you turn the engine over can you hear the fuel pump run?
To answer your question - If the engine is rotating then that will turn the dizzy and the AEI will 'see' rotation from the timing sensor. As long as the engine rotates you should get a spark.
Check the connections to the AEI.
The starter just keeps turning (can hear a repeatative clicking aswell)
The fuel pump switches on as you hear a groan when the ignition is turned on.
I checked for the spark by using a plug in king lead and earthing on the water pump which I have done in the past with no trouble.
No I dont have an immobiliser, so can rule that problem out.
Yeh I unbolted the AEI and checked the connections but they look ok.
I have a spare unit which im going to try tonight.
If that does not work im clueless.
Alastair
23-03-2009, 12:31
OK well good luck, If your engine is actually turning over and the fuel pump is running then you should be getting a spark.
You could (but i am not convinced it is this) check the ignition relay next to the AEI, also make sure you have 12 volts on pin a (yellow wire iirc) to the AEI white connector (one on the top).
Ill try and dig out a photo later tonight when i get back from work.
Cheers for that mate, il have a look tonight, when I get in.
Just thought would the tdc wires affect the strating problem?
As its in a right state! 2 connection blocks found on it and one came undone and I wasnt sure which way round they went as the fools used differnt couloured wire. :sad2:
I want to replace with one length of wire anyway what type should I use?
Alastair
23-03-2009, 17:46
Just thought would the tdc wires affect the strating problem?
As its in a right state! 2 connection blocks found on it and one came undone and I wasnt sure which way round they went as the fools used differnt couloured wire. :sad2:
I want to replace with one length of wire anyway what type should I use?
Sounds like TDC sensor is your best bet first mate... new they are only a few quid, so for peace of mind id go new. However, any reasonable thickness two core wire will suffice as an interimm, originaly they are red and white, about 0.5mm^2. If you get them the 'wrong' way round dont worry, that'll just give you some ignition advance at the lower end - see articles section on the site. Id solder and heat shrink them carefully though, the signal is fairly weak.;)
Markey Mark (BD)
23-03-2009, 17:58
As Alister says, TDC sounds like the likely problem there if its really that bad.
my god misky its being a **** aint it lol
Yeh just a little Richi! lol
Right heres what im going to do:
New tdc wire,
Change the battery
Change the king lead then see what happens.
Well guys, Its working!!!! Starting issues down to a tdc fault, and now lovely oil is spluttering all over my rocker assembly!
Im so happy! weeks of depresion have now ended! :D
Just got to fix my crazy indicators and its going for a mot! :agree:
Cheers for all the advice given to me, its realy helped!
Mike.
Hopefully you get it MOT'ed, thoroughly enjoy driving it, then decide you'd be mad to sell it!
Hopefully you get it MOT'ed, thoroughly enjoy driving it, then decide you'd be mad to sell it!
The for sale ad is down. Im in love again. ;)
Good fcuking lad! Knew you couldn't do it :D
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