Can almost see the finish line !!

[Mudslinger]

After all the setbacks ive had since i started this conversion i finally got the news ive been waiting pationtly for , the 5 was on the rollers all day today being mapped , with no problems :smokin:

the map is from scratch ,its runningOmex 600 with wasted spark and 3 bar map sensor so most of the time today was spent testing and calibrating the sensors /throttle positions ,all my previous problems have been sorted so its looking good to go :agree:

My original target when i set out was for 200bhp@wheels so im going to stick for this at the moment , get some time driving it then take it from there , its looking like the T25 is going to be the restriction but it should be good for a few more ,i dont no? maybe? 225-240 bhp should find out the morra :) fingers crossed .

ps. great work on the new site, all those involved need a pat on the back :agree:

[Marcus]

Awesome news fella :cool:

[paul b]

Big pat on the back to you too. Mr slinger of Mud....

cracking you tube vid for the start up........need to see her in action....SOON

[Andrew Cooke]

keep going, I'm looking forwards to seeing the torque curve

[Mudslinger]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

ah well theres always something that throws a spanner in the works :crap:

it seems theres a missfire problem around 6000rpm , couldnt quite find what the problem was on friday ,so mapping was aborted untill monday

we recon its ecu related , the car was happily going over 7k rpm with the old ecu so im hoping its just sommit stupid .

Really wanted my car back this week to get it ready for nat day :(

[Os8472]

First post!


New poster! (less than 10 posts)

ah well theres always something that throws a spanner in the works :crap:

it seems theres a missfire problem around 6000rpm , couldnt quite find what the problem was on friday ,so mapping was aborted untill monday

we recon its ecu related , the car was happily going over 7k rpm with the old ecu so im hoping its just sommit stupid .

Really wanted my car back this week to get it ready for nat day :(

I'm not trying to make you sound stupid but start with the simple stuff, the amount of times I've thought I knew better when there was a problem and the amount of time wasted trying to find the simplest problem is rediculas.

Check your plugs, HT leads, dizzy/coil pack (can't rememebed if you ditched the dizzy)

[Mudslinger]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

still not found the cause of the missfire :confused:

all the basic stuff has been checked ,and yeah Os8472 the dizzy is now ditched .

it seems its something to do with the ecu , AVA have spoke with omex and they now have a copy of the map progress, hopefully they will be able to pinpoint what the problem is .

i so want to come to nat day with the car running with a full map and boost to play with but time is fast approaching ,fingers crossed Omex have the answer

[Andrew Cooke]

I'll throw a couple of suggestions out:

too big a gap between the crank trigger and sensor

too little dwell for the coil pack

[Os8472]

Stupid question, what plugs are you using, I put a brand new set of iridiums in mine for the efi conversion but the ECU didn't like em, put some standard jobs in and she ran smooth as

[Mudslinger]

[quote=Andrew Cooke;4975]I'll throw a couple of suggestions out:

too big a gap between the crank trigger and sensor[quote]

wouldnt that show up the fault/ missfire through out the rev range and not just at 6k rpm?


[quote]too little dwell for the coil pack[quote]

ive no idea what u mean by this but ill certainly mention it tomorrow

cheers for the input Andy :agree:

It doesnt seem to be losing a spark ,its more a sensor/ecu problem

[Scoff]

Im with andy's suggestions, maybe you could do a log of the error and watch it back, see if it's loosing the crank angle. (rpm will most likely drop off or look sporadic in the log at the time of the fault)

[Scoff]

does it happen at standstill or just under load btw ?

otherwise, really looking good now :agree:

[Mudslinger]

im not 100% sure , im guessing if its happening underload it will be the same at a stand still . I never asked .. ill find out tomorrow

cheers scoff :smokin:

[Scoff]

well, if it only happens under load then the spark may just be too weak, so look at dwell time as andy says. If its there regardless of load then crank trigger is more likely :) a log will tell all though.

[D4WNO]

Keep on at Omex, I understand Adey aka Ewok had to give his car to them a couple of times to sort issues out. Maybe send him a PM and see what the issue was?

[Andrew Cooke]

a big clue will be what the rev counter does (depending upon what drives the rev counter) if it goes haywire, or drops to zero I'd say look at the trigger, if it follows what the engine is doing I'd look at spark energy (coil dwell). If it gets better by closing up the plug gaps, that is another clue that it's a spark energy problem.

best of luck sorting it - Andy

[Mudslinger]

Andy, the problem is only occuring under load ,ive mentioned to AVA about the crank trigger and coil dwell , both these had been checked and seem to be good .

After disscusions with Omex regds the problem they wanted to see the map so hopefully they will get back to us today .

I thought it might have been a fuel pump issue , but its showing good pressure .

Just need to hang on now to see what omex say :crap:

[newbstar*]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

any progress on the misfire:confused::)

[Adey aka Ewok]

Keep on at Omex, I understand Adey aka Ewok had to give his car to them a couple of times to sort issues out. Maybe send him a PM and see what the issue was?

was fixing/sorting out other companys poor work, nothing but helpfull, there going through a unit move at the mo but are always very willing to lend an ear and give advice, they will be at nat day too if you wana chat to them

[Mudslinger]

I wont find out anymore progress untill Monday . when hopefully Omex will have got back to us , yeah Adey Omex have been very helpfull ,i just hope they got the answers needed to fix this dam problem .

searched google about the missfire problem and found out that the 20+pin ecu plug on the omex 600 can cause this fault ,so ill need to check this on monday .

[Mudslinger]

Ok got some feedback from AVA today , Omex were back in contact today and have done some bech testing of the map , they recon all looks well and have advised to change the size of the resistors for the injectors :confused:

Fingers crossed this works , if it does ill be getting the car back thursady night , if it doesnt i could take it back part finished just to make nat day but im not really interested in that option , i want it finished .

[Trevhib]

i want it finished .

That probably rates as the biggest understatement of the new millennium so far.

[DaveAVT]

Does the car run lean at 6k?, if not then its not injector/resistor related.

Don't know how can they 'bench test' a map?

[EmmaB510]

hope you get it all sorted richie :D would be gr8 to see it again, but you can't rush these things :cry:

[Mudslinger]

That probably rates as the biggest understatement of the new millennium so far.

:laugh: ur not wrong m8

[Scoff]

If its under load then its either too small a spark (dwell time, plug choice, etc) OR a lack of fuel, which might indeed be that the injectors are doing something funny at a larger duty. The ignition issue would feel like a missfire, a "brrrrr" sound as it tries to boost, maybe dropping onto 3 pots or less. If it was an injector issue you'd expect to see it go lean as dave says before you actually feel the missfire.

Did you ever get a log of the fault ?

What ECU do you use ? If you want to send me the file I'll look over it for you, probably won't see anything that AVA havn't seen, but you never know :)

[Mudslinger]

Does the car run lean at 6k?, if not then its not injector/resistor related.

Don't know how can they 'bench test' a map?

Im not sure if its running rich or lean @6k all ava have told me is that its got a missfire which was making it unable to map and that it was an ecu related problem .

I havent got a clue how they Omex bench test the map , to be honest its probably just a term used to say they checked it ,

[Mudslinger]

If its under load then its either too small a spark (dwell time, plug choice, etc) OR a lack of fuel, which might indeed be that the injectors are doing something funny at a larger duty. The ignition issue would feel like a missfire, a "brrrrr" sound as it tries to boost, maybe dropping onto 3 pots or less. If it was an injector issue you'd expect to see it go lean as dave says before you actually feel the missfire.

Did you ever get a log of the fault ?

What ECU do you use ? If you want to send me the file I'll look over it for you, probably won't see anything that AVA havn't seen, but you never know :)

its an Omex 600 , the logs of the fault were recorded by ava and sent to Omex , I would need to ask ava for them .if i can get them ill certainly send it over for you to have a gander at :agree:

the problem is only happening under load ,so its more than likely leaning out at 6k causing missfire as you say . but ive never witnessed this in person so its kinda hard for me to answer , im sure ava no what they are doing and will have checked all that they could ,it wouldve been a last resort for them to contact Omex , all i can do now is wait till thursday afternoon and see how it pans out .

[Mudslinger]

well thats it for me , we had a good try at getting it finished but sadly its not making it this year :(

changing the resistors for the injectors solved the missfire problem :) its best run so far with 1 bar of boost was 183bhp @wheels at 6.5k but now i have a new problem,it keeps chucking the alt belt as soon as its over 6k the belt just comes off , its almost as small a belt as i can get ,its a brand new alt,bottom pully ,and water pump . tried making new bushes for the alt but still no joy ,in the end we gave up at 4pm this afternoon as i couldnt get another belt to replace the 3 that had already snapped till the morning:( and the mapper was fighting a losin battle .

its like it wants to lift off the water pump pully at high revs , is there a fix/mod to stop this apart from changing all the pulleys to groved ones?

It was just not ready for a track day yet ,also noticed a few loose nuts and bolts after its session on the rollers so wouldve had to have given it s good going over ,i really needed another week or so .

still its showing more positive results now that always helps and keeps us battering on hoping that 1 day ill get it finished

[Brigsy]

Is the bottom pulley on the right way? Might be worth changing the alt bracket too the bushes can wear out.

If all else fails use a bearing to tension it off the block, or another renault (twingo possibly?) has a tensioner that will fit to the o.e setup.

Good power for 1bar anyway, plenty to have fun on the track at nd :)

[Markey Mark (BD)]

An idea of mine is to try a campus bottom pulley, they are smaller in diameter so spins all the other pulley's slightly slower.

I had probs with throwing belts but then tried the pulley and never had a prob since, alot of the boys have used this mod and also you don't notice any difference in cooling since the pump spins slower.

[Mudslinger]

yeah its so ****in annoying , i recon some sort of bearing /bush to tension it might help ,ill defo look into changing to a campus pully see if it helps any , i got some metal bushes for the alt and its aligned perfect when u watch it running its perfect but as soon as u hit high revs it lifts off :crap: whats even more of a **** is its fairly tricky to get the belt on now cause of the speed pickup sensor and toothed wheel on the pulley.

cheers for the tips guys :)

im trying so hard to talk the mrs into letting me have the clio to come to nat but its not going down to well , shes not being left without a car :(

[paul b]

slinger of mud............have you got the little pin that bolts to the pump..item 31 on the pic by the belt..
its to stop the belt jumping off..???

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k168/paulb69_2006/dialogys/1120M06D_1.png

[Mudslinger]

slinger of mud............have you got the little pin that bolts to the pump..item 31 on the pic by the belt..
its to stop the belt jumping off..???
----

:eek: Hmm ive never noticed that before , id need to go have a look ,and seeing the car is 45 miles away it wont be tonight .
was this part fitted to the ph1 , i honestly think id have noticed that bit today if it was there.

cheers for the heads up ;)

[paul b]

well, i've seen them on all models...even one on my 9....

seen them on 1.2......1.4......turbo and n/a


I can VOR one and get it to ND for saturday morning...?????

hows that for service..or you can sort one tomorrow...sharpish

[Mudslinger]

Cheers for the offer m8 , but AVA are so busy i wont get it back on the rollers now to next week its still got a bit of work to do on the map , i will certainly phone first thing in the morning though and get them to check to see if im missing that guide and what the chances are of giving it another go at the mapping ,but i dont fancy my chances ,hes already spent more time with it this week than he had intended .
Ill certainly give you a shout if i cant get my hands on that part :agree:

[Adey aka Ewok]

mapped for a bar up 6k will be good enough to drive down wnt it?

[RICHIE]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

are you using a toothed belt mate all mine have popped off at high revs get a oe v belt as it sits deeper and seems to run smoother worked for me

[Mudslinger]

it probably would aye , but i dont want to take my car back untill the mapping is completely finished , other wise i end up at the back of the que , AVA want the car finished just as much as i do , but he strongly advised me against taking it on track at this moment untill its set up properlly, and to be honest i aint driving all that way to leave it sitting in a car park looking all nice and shiney .Ive done that at 2 events already and it bores me not participating in the track action.

I already bought my track pass for the weekend ,paid for ins and tax so beleive me if it was poss for me to come in the 5 it would be there .

Im still anticipating being there but in the clio , that way i get to go on track

[newbstar*]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

look at the bright side,powers looking good for whats on the car.At least it's been worth it in that area so far.And by the time events start next year all the little probs that im sure will crop up will be history.:agree:

[Trevhib]

You're within touching distance Mud! Gutted it's not finished for ND.

[Mudslinger]

really gutted to have not made nat day , but got some more progress today , its now made 212bhp @wheels with 1.5 bar , but the fuel pump is now at its limit .
Should get a pump on monday and take it from there :)

[Mudslinger]

Im going to pick the car up on monday :)
the mapping is complete now , and its making 220bhp @wheels im well pleased with that ,its made 20 more hp than i set out to acheive , it seems thats the most ill get out of the t25 as its becoming the restriction now .

i doubt ill change the turbo to a bigger one untill ive had a chance to drive the car and see what its like , but im guessing with 220hp its not going to be slow :cool:

ill get some videos up once ive got it back ,cant bloody wait now ,i just hope we get some dry weather to get out in the thing.

[raj]

:burnrubber::cool2:
cant wait to see some vids of the beast, get on it:cool:

[Mudslinger]

ok , i finally got the car back thursady night , fully mapped , still have a few issues to sort out though :crap:
it broke down on the way home as the draw pumps failed which pissed me right off .it has done over 50 power runs on the rollers and been driven a few miles before i got it back with no problems ,very unfortunate it happened once i started driving . to be honest i was almost ready to torch the fecker myself after i got stradded 10 miles from home at 12.30 am, i actually pushed it for over a mile to get off the main road untill i managed to get a m8 to come give me a tow ..
its also destroyed the cv joint again , drive shaft thats been shortened , so im going to look into getting a pukka 1 made . I know duncs got d/s's made any contact info ?

managed to get the pump off this morning and got a new 1 so im going to get it back on this afternoon and hopefully it will make a noise again ..

1 thing i will say is OMG its a feckin tool , it didnt quite sink in how fast it actually would be , its lighting up the tyres in 5th in the wet , @6500 rpm its making 212bhp @wheelsi in 4th gear with 1.5bar and still holds 200bhp up till 7200 where ive set the rev limiter for the moment , if i got a bigger turbo it could easily produce more power , but to be honest i think this is plenty with a good usable power band , comes on boost around 3k , tried adding more boost but there was no increase in power so basically the turbo is the restriction ....

im going to really try and get get these small issues sorted so i can take it to Miller and emmas rr day next week .

[Mudslinger]

Managed to get my hands on a new fuel pump this afternoon , and that seems to have sorted the problem .. :)

very strange how it packed in like that as it had no issues during the mapping or the test runs . probably just my ****ty luck ...

anyway now just to get this driveshaft cv joint sorted and im back in buissness :smokin:

ps had forgot how much of a c**t it is working underneath the car using jack and axle stands :crap:

[Mudslinger]

forgot to post this http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=145&pictureid=2287
the black shaded area is just ava logo , the colour printer was broke!!

what u guys think ?

i think the cam could do with a little adjustment ,its just not an easy thing to do while its on the rollers

[Bigfoot]

Sounds like fun

Dont know if they are any help to you

http://asp.drivelink.com/index_content.cfm

[Mudslinger]

cheers big foot :) got to be worth a try , im sure it was maybe just the gaitor thats been a bit tight and its split , but im going to look into getting a pukka 1 made ,even if its to make it a bit more reliable :)

[Andrew Cooke]

I'd say she's done, stop dicking and start driving :cool:

[Mudslinger]

what do u think off the power Andy ?

[Andrew Cooke]

what do u think off the power Andy ?

looks good to me, nice spread of power.

[Mudslinger]

it certainlly feels like a bigger engine than a 1.4 the way it pulls ,and the noise it makes its just crazy.

[Woznaldo]

Power looks, and no doubt feels, fantastic! I'd stick with your current turbo for driveability/fun.:smokin:

What C/R are you running out of interest?

Well done Mud, bloody good effort!:agree:

[Trevhib]

Looks like it goes ballistic at 3k rpm and stays over 195bhp between 5k and 7k rpm. Ace.

Torque curve available to see?

[Mudslinger]

Looks like it goes ballistic at 3k rpm and stays over 195bhp between 5k and 7k rpm. Ace.

Torque curve available to see?

AVA dont give a torque curve or flywheel figures so ill need to attend another rolling road just for some comparrison figures .

although i recon most rr's will have difficulty keeping traction on the rollers but ill soon find out , im planning on going to Miller and Emmas rr day next week ..

Woz ,, im unsure the exact c/r , i need to ask my m8 it is low though .

[Trevhib]

:agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

Looks like it goes ballistic at 3k rpm and stays over 195bhp between 5k and 7k rpm. Ace.

Torque curve available to see?

this is at the wheels, so you'll need to add your transmission loss of choice. I'd try and get rid of that boost spike for the sake of your transmission.

[Mudslinger]

interesting that andy cheers ;)

im guessing the idea is to have the boost curve more or less stay the same as the power curve?

[Andrew Cooke]

you can do what you want with the boost curve, it's whatever makes you happy. To my mind the transmission is pretty fragile and you should try not to have a big spike of torque. If it was me I'd want it to go to 1.6bar and stay there. I doubt that spike of torque does much for performance, and more than likely just makes the wheels spin when you're getting on the throttle coming out of a corner.

[Scoff]

maybe it's not a spike, it could be a little bit of wheelspin on the dyno as it comes up strong.

either way, cracking job, well done with it all :agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

maybe it's not a spike, it could be a little bit of wheelspin on the dyno as it comes up strong.

either way, cracking job, well done with it all :agree:

The boost is on my graph, you can read it on the original chart, pretty sure wheelspin won't make the boost spike.

[Scoff]

The boost is on my graph, you can read it on the original chart, pretty sure wheelspin won't make the boost spike.

oh, I didn't see a boost plot anywhere, I should have read the thread.

[Scoff]

infact, where did the boost plot come from ? I saw that you'd uploaded a plot andy, I thought maybe you'd extracted torque from the HP curve and done a new plot with both on it, I didn't imagine it would have boost on it.

[Andrew Cooke]

infact, where did the boost plot come from ? I saw that you'd uploaded a plot andy, I thought maybe you'd extracted torque from the HP curve and done a new plot with both on it, I didn't imagine it would have boost on it.

the numbers are in the little boxes on the original curve. It's in absolute millibars.

[Mart]

P3

[Scoff]

ah :)