Phase 1 spring

[Jimmy_GTT]

I'm checking my front suspension and I'm wondering if the springs I have are really for GTT.
My car is phase 1. The springs I have have red any grey marks if I remember right.
Uncrompressed height 330mm, 6 total turns, external diameter 143mm wire diameter 12,25mm.
And somewhere (maybe in Haynes?) I've read that the GTT spring should have 12,75mm wire diameter.
I'm wondering if the lowering springs offered for GT Turbo on ebay would fit both phase 1 and phase 2?
So it would be great to collect some spring's specs.

[Matt Cole]

Standard springs are long gone, and even if listed as correct, you end up with Campus springs which are too long.:scared:

After market lowering springs will fit phase 1 and 2 (same diameter AFAIK), so i would go for those with a lowering height of your choice. ;)

[Jimmy_GTT]

I get you what you say. I always thought that the Phase 1 and 2 springs are different.
I have this info from a french C405 book:
31853

So if I would choose a 30-35mm lowering spring, which one will you suggest?

[Duncan Grier]

Not sure if it helps at all but iirc are phase 2 springs are shorter due to camber adjusting plate at the top of the strut, not sure mind?

My poor memory and v basic French read that as min authorised length again is the difference related to top mounts and struts or springs alone?

DG

[Jimmy_GTT]

As I remember earlier we only used phase 2 springs to lower a phase 1 GTT by 30mm.
That's why I'm questioning that the lowering springs could be the same for ph1 and 2.

[Duncan Grier]

Ok makes sense then in that a 30mm ph2 spring would lower 60mm approx on a ph1

I suspect a few of the known companies providing springs over the years would confirm or provide required ones?

Last time I did any suspension on a 5 it was custom coilovers with koni converting their normal kit to suit the vag conversion

[Ian S]

From that data, I'd expect phase two lowering springs to be 40mm shorter than phase one.

Just as that says phase two standard springs are 40mm shorter than phase one.

With lowering springs, you have to select you chosen spring rate, ie, 250 pounds per inch, or whatever g/mm. That determines how much the spring will compress when loaded. The front has about 600lb over each wheel, so 200lb/inch = 3 inches of compression.

Then you have to decide the open length, ie, the unloaded length of the spring, eg, 10 inches. So, that means the compressed spring height will be 7 inches.

Compare that to the original spring compressed length and you have your amount of lowering.

It's tricky to get right first go and it may take two or three goes.

[Matt Cole]

I don't see the point in running phase 1 strut components. :scratch:Change all to ph 2 and get 35mm lowering springs readily available.

[Jimmy_GTT]

But I already have Phase 1 Konis. Which I do not want to change...

[Jimmy_GTT]

From one company I have a reply.
They are selling Renault 5 GT Turbo springs (not lowering springs) with the following specs:
5,5 thread, 350mm unloaded height, 12,25mm wire diam, 143mm outer diam
They have a different spring to all other R5s. So It is not a campus spring.

Interesting as my red-grey phase 1 (?) springs are only 330mm. (Could be that they have already shortened due to age)
Wire and outer diam. is the same. But mine has 6 total turns.

My goal is right now to reveal this spring issue with phase 1 and 2 if they are interchangeable or if a phase 2 spring would extra lower the phase 1 car.

[Jimmy_GTT]

I've found a very good spring calculator on my friend's site:
http://www.dp-automotive.hu/index_eng.html
http://www.dp-automotive.hu/dpa_softwares.html#q3

I've entered the parameters of my springs and the result seems to be exact. With 250kg load estimated on a front wheel this spring should compress 125mm.
In the assembled strut the spring is compressed by 60mm, and I've measured an additional 60mm compression when strut is in the car under load.

[Thundercat]

Ph1 springs are definitely longer standard, most cases fitting ph2 lowering springs causes a considerable drop in ride height and also springs are loose when car is jacked up. Another option would be to obtain some coilover springs and adjustable platforms and run them on your konis to get ride height.

[Jimmy_GTT]

Ph1 springs are definitely longer standard, most cases fitting ph2 lowering springs causes a considerable drop in ride height and also springs are loose when car is jacked up. Another option would be to obtain some coilover springs and adjustable platforms and run them on your konis to get ride height.

But how can I convert my phase I Konis to cope with coilover springs?

Anyway I've found a company nearby who is manufacturing springs to nearly any spec.
I've talked to them yesterday and even the price is very good. 60-70 Pounds a set.
I want a minimal drop in height. Maybe 20mm. But want at least a 20% firmer springs.
I have 1 lowering spring which was in set with the Konis. It has a 30-35mm drop, but it is softer than oem phase 1 spring. (What the calculator prooves perfectly.)

So now I'm thinking about to have the following spec spring made:
290mm total length (Spring in place in the Koni is a bit less then 270mm so it would have a preload even when the car is jacked up.)
13mm wire diam
143mm outer diam
6 turns
If the calculations are correct it would give a spring which is 20% firmer than the oem and gives a 20mm drop.

[Duncan Grier]

I travelled to koni and converted mine to coilovers after my initial spec we also corner weighted the car and after a bit of revision were made up and collected the following week

The guy there who helped has long moved back to the states but dont remember is been silly money or if they would still offer the service

Seems sensible money for a punt on the custom made springs and hopefully the easier option

DG

[Matt Cole]

I travelled to koni and converted mine to coilovers after my initial spec we also corner weighted the car and after a bit of revision were made up and collected the following week

The guy there who helped has long moved back to the states but dont remember is been silly money or if they would still offer the service

Seems sensible money for a punt on the custom made springs and hopefully the easier option

DG
I remember you telling me about the custom konis Duncan when you had the Vag 5. I also remember how well it went round track. :D