How to get 220ish bhp

[R5GTTdrew]

Hello people, I was gona stick my 5 into Ktec to get the engine rebuilt and up to about 220bhp, but alot of u guys said other wise.

Has anyone on here got that bhp if so what mods did u do to get them??? Or anyone no how to get that bhp :confused:

[MR TURBO]

Hello people, I was gona stick my 5 into Ktec to get the engine rebuilt and up to about 220bhp, but alot of u guys said other wise.

Has anyone on here got that bhp if so what mods did u do to get them??? Or anyone no how to get that bhp :confused:

I'd like to know too....I think 180bhp is a nice figure!!Should be safe too!!

[J$£5GTT]

I'd like to know too....I think 180bhp is a nice figure!!Should be safe too!!

yer 180 ish,but really its all about acceleration.
;)

[5alldaway]

why have 220 ish when u can go to bb tuning and have 250+

[R5GTTdrew]

why have 220 ish when u can go to bb tuning and have 250+

BB tuning, r they expensive for the 250bhp mod??? Will that not b to much, ie u will need a LSD??? Suppose u would need that with 220bhp aswell eh!:confused:


Well what would u guys say is a quick 5 bhp, meanin where u get a fast 5 and not to much wheel spin and its undrivable???

If its 180bhp, what mods for that????

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Well both my 5's have around 180bhp....

Both done in different ways...

White 5.
T28
Pace Front Mount
Carb set up for 18psi by Mart from here...
and being on the rollers at Track and Road 176bhp and nearly the same Torque...
1/4mile at 13.9 @101mph

Where as my Grey 5 is
T2/T25
Low comp pistons (BB)
285 Piper Cam,
Double core Intercooler (BB)
Carb set up for 18psi
and i dont know what the bhp is but has done the 1/4 mile at 14.1 @99mph

When your doing trap speeds of 100mph that suggest that you have 170-190bhp.

Both different set up's, both same power both different to drive :-)

[renault5gtboi]

u wanna look into having a decent turbo at about a 1.1 bar and get your fueling sorted and a piper 285 cam with uprated springs and i reckon youll be neally at 180 :) ohh also if youve got a standard rad ide have a seporate oil cooler :)

[dave j gtt]

around 150 - 160 bhp is quick :)

and very easy to achive with near standard engine.

[Adey aka Ewok]

Well both my 5's have around 180bhp....

Both done in different ways...

White 5.
T28
Pace Front Mount
Carb set up for 18psi by Mart from here...
and being on the rollers at Track and Road 176bhp and nearly the same Torque...
1/4mile at 13.9 @101mph

Where as my Grey 5 is
T2/T25
Low comp pistons (BB)
285 Piper Cam,
Double core Intercooler (BB)
Carb set up for 18psi
and i dont know what the bhp is but has done the 1/4 mile at 14.1 @99mph

When your doing trap speeds of 100mph that suggest that you have 170-190bhp.

Both different set up's, both same power both different to drive :-)

get them turbos swapped over shoppers

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

get them turbos swapped over shoppers

I have always planned to do this... but only when i can get both cars on the rollers to set up the fueling :-)

[Big Steve - Raider]

I have always planned to do this... but only when i can get both cars on the rollers to set up the fueling :-)

Gotta get those little pinkies dirty sometime soon mate?! :wasntme:

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Gotta get those little pinkies dirty sometime soon mate?! :wasntme:

Actually this very very weekend i got abit busy, sorted out my hole underneath the bettery tray with fibreglass... just the fuel leak to sort and it should pass the mot :D

[5teve L]

T25 or T28
Decent intercooler (FMIC)
Carb jetted for the boost (pref not by k-tec or the likes :wasntme:)
Cam so you can rev it (285 or the likes)
decent clutch is a must (i'd go paddle plate with volvo cover or if you plan on running 180-200 & no serious drag just the green box valeo volvo)
decent exhaust (sidey or decent rear exit)
make sure the engine/cooling system is up to scratch in the 1st place.

That & 1.5 bar manifold can see you between 190-210...
Or at least on my car it was & that was running low comps, when the comp went up it was alot more responsive & at 24psi manifold was :smokin:
Not sure anything over 200 would last long without serious maintenance or loads of gauges/knowing the car well enough.... certainly not a daily driver..

All IMO of course.

[Maka]

id go with what steve says
nice hybrid turbo
front mount
piper cam
and get some one in the know to drill your carb jets.
You might need a decent acutator though to run between 18 - 20 psi boost.
decent tyres..scratch that...fooking awsume tyres

its all affordable and cheapish to do and you will get betwenn 180 - 200bhp easily.
If you can get al lthat horsepowero nthe ground in the R5 thn you will be one lucky mofo.

The above way seems to have been tried and tested by many on these forums..with good results. (bar me as i just cant get the power on the ground unfortunatly, i like to buy cheap ass tyres)

[newbstar*]

get them turbos swapped over shoppers
Also needs a cam :)

[Adey aka Ewok]

Also needs a cam :)
whys that? the low comp engine already has one

[Rob@Backyardracing]

God low comp and 18psi...... get the boost up and some ign advance or even better loads of nossssssssssssss:p:cooter:

[rennie5gtt]

mine has a stage 5 head, with bigger muilt engle vavle, standard engine part from that, front mounted intercooler, good oil cooler, alloy rad,better carb top, second hand uprated turbo what ever that is small lillte thing, and it does quater mile in 14.2 so all set up on a rr, so thing are looking good i say, soon have a 285 cam and t28gt, then what will it do, have not got a clue what the bhp is, but it is fun to drive, put a smile on all my m8 faces, lol.....?????

[dave j gtt]

i like to drive my car on my own :)

70kg all in ;) rapid haha

[R5GTTdrew]

Ok I bought a hybrid turbo from www.turbotechnics.com (http://www.turbotechnics.com)

It says power output 200-250bhp boosts 15-26PSI 360degree screwed thrust bearing for just under 600

Will this b a T28 or a T2 or???????

Anyone recomend any FMIC?????:agree:

[5teve L]

Stage 2 or 3 ??

I had a stage 2 many years ago & it made 180 bhp @ BB tunings RR with a k-tec 260 cam @ 20psi

[Adam L]

i like to drive my car on my own :)

70kg all in ;) rapid haha

You're a bit heavy aren't you... I'm only just over 60kg's:D

[dave j gtt]

yeah adam im bit on the heavy side at the moment :( :laugh:

been working with my dad scaffolding for local factory and the canteen is awsome put on a stone nealy in two months ouch. soon lose it tho not working there any more. and will miss my three meals i use to have there. plus i ate 1 at home :laugh:


with standard engine 15psi mani boost r5gtts are quick when on your own, if you got a passenger it makes a big differece to what you can burn off :wasntme:

[R5GTTdrew]

:(:( am a rugby player, and am 130kg!!:ashamed:

But am a big built mother hubbered lol

Its a stage 3 turbo a got from them. So just waitin to c what FMIC a get, might for for a forge one, but a wana keep the standard bumper and not have it showin, dont like that look.

[DaveMayGTT]

:(:( am a rugby player, and am 130kg!!:ashamed:

But am a big built mother hubbered lol

Its a stage 3 turbo a got from them. So just waitin to c what FMIC a get, might for for a forge one, but a wana keep the standard bumper and not have it showin, dont like that look.

You really are twice the man adamL is lol

[mad manz]

wot bhp am i runining m8?
stage 2 hybrid turbo
16 psi boost
side exhaust
induction kit
big front intercooler
few other little bits

i want 200 bhp

[Sparkie]

wot bhp am i runining m8?
stage 2 hybrid turbo
16 psi boost
side exhaust
induction kit
big front intercooler
few other little bits

i want 200 bhp

you are running 150-160bhp.

[5teve L]

you are running 150-160bhp.

I'll go with that as well.

[Ashy]

you are running 150-160bhp.


I would of said 153.8bhp with that setup guaranteed!!

[rs250nut]

What is the key to making a powerfull c1j, other than removing the 25mm restrictor?

[Matt Cole]

What is the key to making a powerfull c1j, other than removing the 25mm restrictor?

No need to remove it, maybe a slight 1.5 mm trim to 26.5 and then speak to stuart clarke who seems to have thrown bits together to achieve over 300bhp!!:scared:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

What is the key to making a powerfull c1j, other than removing the 25mm restrictor?

A good balance of parts, boost and rpm...........:) I dont think you need to spend a fortune on head work, forge this and that...

[gtmatt]

rob is right , i would not even mess with the carb apart from getting it jetted right , non off this grp a lark, nice turbo nice cam ,right set up:)

[rs250nut]

rob is right , i would not even mess with the carb apart from getting it jetted right , non off this grp a lark, nice turbo nice cam ,right set up:)

I know no one to set mine up for me I have a nice selection of parts I just dont think im getting the best out of the car

[Scoff]

220hp is pretty easy to do in terms of picking the right parts but you need to spend some time on getting the carburettor right, it gets tricky at that power level.

parts wise a standard engine with BP285, springs, T28 running 22psi or so and a good (as large as you can fit) intercooler will see you there. forget overly big downpipes, fancy exhausts, headwork, 'race' plugs, leads, all that crap, you don't need any of it.

[Tiny Tim]

You need sme bling though, right Scoff? :cool:

[RICHIE]

you get around 220 ish bhp when you buy the megane 225

[Sparkie]

What is the key to making a powerfull c1j, other than removing the 25mm restrictor?

breathing is the key.... easier to remove/enlarge restrictions on the exhaust side, than the inlet side.

[tiff_lee]

What is the key to making a powerfull c1j, other than removing the 25mm restrictor?
What restrictor are you referring to?

[Scoff]

What restrictor are you referring to?

the carburettor :)

[tiff_lee]

lol oh, opps

[Big Jim]

Classic case of something that you REALLY wouldn't want, actually working. No-one would (if they had a real choice) put a 25mm choke on something that was going to make that sort of power. Horrible pressure drop across the carb, excessive exhaust temps and residual cylinder pressures and the bloody things still make the beans.....

I give up:scratch:

[tiff_lee]

You know Jim this is the perfect sales pitch opportunity.....

In order to get 220ish bhp you need a Big Jim one piece downpipe! ;)
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?p=41349#post41349

[James_Surridge G1 5 GTT]

Hello people, I was gona stick my 5 into Ktec to get the engine rebuilt and up to about 220bhp, but alot of u guys said other wise.

Has anyone on here got that bhp if so what mods did u do to get them??? Or anyone no how to get that bhp :confused:

In answer to your original question (as always).

My car has a proven 220 BHP on rollers (no comments required)

Work all done by K-TEC.:)
:agree:

[Tiny Tim]

No disrespect James, was that advertised as one of their "350bhp" engines?

[newbstar*]

whys that? the low comp engine already has one
yes im stating the white one:rolleyes:

[5teve L]

In answer to your original question (as always).

My car has a proven 220 BHP on rollers (no comments required)

Work all done by K-TEC.:)
:agree:


So you could have spent the same amount of cash & got a faster car then :D
Or spent half the amount for the same power.... :wasntme:

[raj]

So you could have spent the same amount of cash & got a faster car then :D
Or spent half the amount for the same power.... :wasntme:

maybe time was an issue? he may have been going back n forth to iraq/afgstn!

im sure it was james car that ive seen a vid clip of.? was going kinda quick and im sure he was being followed by a kitcar? caterham? it looked quick never the less:agree:

james,what has your engine had done to it? your profile doesnt tell much.

[Scoff]

with james's engine bay he's paid for a lot more than good power output, it's a work of art that's had an awfull lot of time and effort spent upon it. it's not always just about numbers.

[Sparkie]

i know for a fact that he bought every single item Bob had to sell that was chromed.
i also know for a fact Jimbo isnt one for getting his carefully manicured nails greasy.:laugh:

[tiff_lee]

Oh blimey it does look nice, surprised a pongo can keep it that clean ;)

[dave j gtt]

220hp is pretty easy to do in terms of picking the right parts but you need to spend some time on getting the carburettor right, it gets tricky at that power level.

parts wise a standard engine with BP285, springs, T28 running 22psi or so and a good (as large as you can fit) intercooler will see you there. forget overly big downpipes, fancy exhausts, headwork, 'race' plugs, leads, all that crap, you don't need any of it.


thats my next move when i have funds, new engine and set up so i can change between oe engine standard little turbo 15psi and oe cam, an big turbo and 285 cam , clutch and none the fancie crap just clean tidy set up good cooling and lots more power :D

[5teve L]

maybe time was an issue? he may have been going back n forth to iraq/afgstn!

im sure it was james car that ive seen a vid clip of.? was going kinda quick and im sure he was being followed by a kitcar? caterham? it looked quick never the less:agree:

james,what has your engine had done to it? your profile doesnt tell much.

T'was tongue in cheek, hence the smileys :rolleyes::smokin:

[renault5gtboi]

can you give me a ruff guide what ill be running??
ive got group a carb
uprated feul pump
chargecooler kit
vnt turbo 16psi
green cotton large air filter
volvo clutch
l&b flywheel

lucking for around 170?? u reckon ime neally thair ??:)

[Sy5GTT]

It is all down to the correct fuelling. I thought I was running 140 - 150bhp @ 15psi but after a trip to the rollers I only made 118bhp. :cry:The car was running way way too rich (9.6 @WOT). If your carb is group A it may not mean it's set up to run 16psi. With the right fuelling 150 - 160 @ 16psi should be about right.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Newbstar,

My white 5 has the front mount and T28 but on a standard engine... i will put the front mount and turbo on my grey 5 as that has the low comp pistons and 285cam.

The white 5 will have a small turbo on a standard engine and the grey 5 will have a large turbo on it.

Just waiting for the weather to improve :-)

[minty83]

im sure it was james car that ive seen a vid clip of.? was going kinda quick and im sure he was being followed by a kitcar? caterham? it looked quick never the less:agree:

on route to the wrexham rolling road last year;)

[James_Surridge G1 5 GTT]

No disrespect James, was that advertised as one of their "350bhp" engines?

No not at all....ALSO please bear in mind we could go down the clasic "tuner or yourself" argument here........

I dont have the time or inclanation to do even the most basic mechanical things with an R5.

I had the money.....I spent it.....got exactly what I wanted with good customer service.

Thanks for the comments Mark and Chris..:agree:

Errr I have travelled to Wrexham once or twice!!:burnrubber:

[Frix]

No not at all....ALSO please bear in mind we could go down the clasic "tuner or yourself" argument here........

I dont have the time or inclanation to do even the most basic mechanical things with an R5.

I had the money.....I spent it.....got exactly what I wanted with good customer service.


fairplay to ya! :D

[James_Surridge G1 5 GTT]

maybe time was an issue? he may have been going back n forth to iraq/afgstn!

im sure it was james car that ive seen a vid clip of.? was going kinda quick and im sure he was being followed by a kitcar? caterham? it looked quick never the less:agree:

james,what has your engine had done to it? your profile doesnt tell much.

All in the article Raj. Your right Iraq and Afghan were certainly an issue. :agree:

[Sparkie]

can you give me a ruff guide what ill be running??
ive got group a carb
uprated feul pump
chargecooler kit
vnt turbo 16psi
green cotton large air filter
volvo clutch
l&b flywheel

lucking for around 170?? u reckon ime neally thair ??:)


you'll be getting 150bhp.
the vnt produces torque low down, and a standard cam doesnt rev too well. hence why the low bhp figure, but good torque. imho..

[newbstar*]

Newbstar,

My white 5 has the front mount and T28 but on a standard engine... i will put the front mount and turbo on my grey 5 as that has the low comp pistons and 285cam.

The white 5 will have a small turbo on a standard engine and the grey 5 will have a large turbo on it.

Just waiting for the weather to improve :-)
Personally didnt like the low com set up,wasnt responsive low down.Also poor mpg return,carb was set aswell,everyone to there own though.

[rs250nut]

I did not like my old low comp engine, no power what so ever before boost and it always felt you had to run more boost to compensate.

[renault5gtboi]

you'll be getting 150bhp.
the vnt produces torque low down, and a standard cam doesnt rev too well. hence why the low bhp figure, but good torque. imho..

ime getting a 285 piper cam and forge high comprestion wossner pistons and conrods then run at 26psi what can i look to achive then?? :)as to compared from my 150hp at the moment

[5teve L]

ime getting a 285 piper cam and forge high comprestion wossner pistons and conrods then run at 26psi what can i look to achive then?? :)as to compared from my 150hp at the moment


Prob a holed piston or cracked liner :wasntme:

[renault5gtboi]

Prob a holed piston or cracked liner :wasntme:

ime getting some steel liners mate lol !! i forgot to mention that ;)

[5teve L]

ime getting some steel liners mate lol !! i forgot to mention that ;)

Doesn't mean squat if it's not set up right, you'll be lucky to get to 26psi, i was at 24 psi manifold & it was running out of fuel @ 6k & that was with some propper jetting.. none of this grp A carp..

[renault5gtboi]

Doesn't mean squat if it's not set up right, you'll be lucky to get to 26psi, i was at 24 psi manifold & it was running out of fuel @ 6k & that was with some propper jetting.. none of this grp A carp..

good old marky b with the orange r5 gunna help me so i reckon ill get thair ;) as i bought the car off him originally and hees pushing 230hp with kinda standard internals so he mush be fueling them correct with his vnt

[Mart]

R11102

[RICHIE]

R11102

:mart:

[Mart]

Perhaps I'm missing what's special about 26psi, or is it 'pluck a random boost figure out the air' again?

[5teve L]

Itz coz my m8 Danny sayz i cn .:p

[renault5gtboi]

Perhaps I'm missing what's special about 26psi, or is it 'pluck a random boost figure out the air' again?

yeah it was a ruff figre as i carnt exactly say it could be 26 or 26.1 or 26.9 couldent it lmao:p i just ment a good top of 20psi figre thats wat ime aiming for sorry for not been pricise!!!

[Adam L]

What Mart was getting at is 26psi is alot of boost, you shouldn't need to run that much...

[Mart]

Exactly. High boost pressure isn't the be all & end all of obtaining a high hp... :rolleyes:

[The new Bill J]

Exactly. High boost pressure isn't the be all & end all of obtaining a high hp... :rolleyes:

lol bt it sowndz....,,. gd dwn da macdeez init........!!1! lolololooll

:sad:

[Mudslinger]

Personally didnt like the low com set up,wasnt responsive low down.Also poor mpg return,carb was set aswell,everyone to there own though.

would this not be down to the turbo size rather than the engine being low compression ??? im assuming it was a t28?

[Andrew Cooke]

Exactly. High boost pressure isn't the be all & end all of obtaining a high hp... :rolleyes:

hark at Mr standard:laugh:

[renault5gtboi]

What Mart was getting at is 26psi is alot of boost, you shouldn't need to run that much...


bear with me lol ime learning ime no engine scientist like u guys i wanna know how to get the max out put for my mentiond parts and if high comp is best or low comp?? piston to relate to the boost to not over boost my turbo if you know wat i mean :)

[Matt Cole]

My last engine did 190bhp at 17psi. Spent a long time setting it up.:p

[Rob@Backyardracing]

My current GT engine i had fitted to clio ran 110mph trap at 18-19psi map...No gas before anyone says.... and that lump is going in my ph1 :)... 67 runs down the strip, some reved to 8.2k and some up to 25psi and gas all std inners apart from cam... Never failed or missed a beat...

[Scoff]

bear with me lol ime learning ime no engine scientist like u guys i wanna know how to get the max out put for my mentiond parts and if high comp is best or low comp?? piston to relate to the boost to not over boost my turbo if you know wat i mean :)

renault5gtboi, what the guys are saying is that it's mighty hard work to get 26psi fueling properly. steel liners are not what you want, standard are plenty strong enough. you also do not want high compression, maybe you are confusing it with low compression ? what they're really saying is that things will break if the tune isn't 100% correct, regardless of steel this, forged that. aim for 20psi, and it's been known to make over 200hp at that when done right. it'll be a lot more reliable for you too.

[Mart]

hark at Mr standard:laugh:

http://www.lancerregister.com//images/smilies/nod.gif

[newbstar*]

http://www.lancerregister.com//images/smilies/nod.gif
you know you want 30psi in that new c1j mart.:devil:

[Mart]

Subtract 20psi or so, and that's where it's at bro.

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Subtract 20psi or so, and that's where it's at bro.

So no changes in the pipe line at all or to try out any ideas etc? just nice and std :)

[Mart]

Hook, line, sinker :agree:

[d110rkjste]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)


renault5gtboi, what the guys are saying is that it's mighty hard work to get 26psi fueling properly. steel liners are not what you want, standard are plenty strong enough. you also do not want high compression, maybe you are confusing it with low compression ? what they're really saying is that things will break if the tune isn't 100% correct, regardless of steel this, forged that. aim for 20psi, and it's been known to make over 200hp at that when done right. it'll be a lot more reliable for you too.

im running 20psi on my r5, an its rappid. all i have is front mount an new turbo with a head gasket, new pistons liners an tht. to get 200bhp safe spend cash on wise things rather than just wack the boost up

[Matt Cole]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)



im running 20psi on my r5, an its rappid. all i have is front mount an new turbo with a head gasket, new pistons liners an tht. to get 200bhp safe spend cash on wise things rather than just wack the boost up


I'm glad its got a gasket mate!:o

[Rob1980]

I'm glad its got a gasket mate!:o

Really? I run mine without, I find it too restrictive.

[LampsR5]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

i have a gt2056 running at around 18-20 psi with a side exit exhaust, not much lag at all got alloy carb top twin core intercooler and alloy boost pipes what you guys think id be running roughly? bear in mind its beaten my bros 5 which has been rr'd at 187 bhp (running a T3)

[Mudslinger]

why when peeps ask what power do you think ive got they then list aload of parts that have no bearing on power ie alloy carb top ,alloy boost pipes ???


im my opinion the only parts that will have a noticeable affect on power is the cam,turbo ,exhaust,carb mods/intake system and maybe I/C apart from that listing shiney bits doesnt add more power :)

[Frix]

why when peeps ask what power do you think ive got they then list aload of parts that have no bearing on power ie alloy carb top ,alloy boost pipes ???


im my opinion the only parts that will have a noticeable affect on power is the cam,turbo ,exhaust,carb mods/intake system and maybe I/C apart from that listing shiney bits doesnt add more power :)


dont say that i thought all the bling added an extra 100bhp!! ;)

[LampsR5]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

lol sorry was copying from a list i made :S my bad. So instead of ripping into my mistake :ashamed:, you happen to have an idea?

[Mudslinger]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

lol sorry was copying from a list i made :S my bad. So instead of ripping into my mistake :ashamed:, you happen to have an idea?

Im not ripping you m8 , i see the same thing on the boards almost on a daily basis, if i was to say what power i thought you had then you would think i was ripping you ;)

best bet would be to get it down to a rr and see ,failing that alot of peeps on here recon the best gauge of how much power you have is to run it down the strip :)

stating it beats my m8s is just nonsence imo :)

[5teve L]

Im not ripping you m8 , i see the same thing on the boards almost on a daily basis, if i was to say what power i thought you had then you would think i was ripping you ;)

best bet would be to get it down to a rr and see ,failing that alot of peeps on here recon the best gauge of how much power you have is to run it down the strip :)

stating it beats my m8s is just nonsence imo :)


Mine also, a different driving style/technique or just the different turbo can make alot of difference to which car is quicker, tyres, set up...
Best way is to RR them on the same day :) Or 'av it out on the strip

[Mart]

Either way, does it really matter?

[5teve L]

Either way, does it really matter?

It would seem so Mart, yes ;)

[Sparkie]

general rule of thumb:

assuming you have a decent cam, turbo, free flowing exhaust and have the fuelling correctly, it seems to follow that whatever boost you are running, just times it by 10 to get the bhp.... only seems to vary slightly by -10 or +10bhp.

:coffee:

[Mudslinger]

Either way, does it really matter?

odd post this 1 :confused:

i think it probably matters to every member of this club except you Mart , Most owners of any car want to know what power there car makes no?

or what would be the point of spending so much time /money and effort modifing them if we never new what power your car had gained from the mods.

[Mart]

What I meant is that anyone could pull any number out of the air, but in reality it means feck all; ie, perhaps his mate's car has more i.c.e/carries more weight, perhaps it runs on 18" alloys, perhaps it wasn't/isn't even running correctly, etc etc, ad nauseum.

RR's are a waste of time as there's far too many fudge factors involved, hence the only way to be sure is to put the engine on a dyno (£££), or run it on the strip, which some people can't be bothered with either.

And fwiw, I'd have personally thought most owners would want improved driveability, response, handling, braking, maybe even reliability, etc, rather than simply having 'bragging rights' power figures to talk about down the pub, which, as I mentioned before, are pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of real world things anyway.

[Mudslinger]

What I meant is that anyone could pull any number out of the air, but in reality it means feck all; ie, perhaps his mate's car has more i.c.e/carries more weight, perhaps it runs on 18" alloys, perhaps it wasn't/isn't even running correctly, etc etc, ad nauseum.

RR's are a waste of time as there's far too many fudge factors involved, hence the only way to be sure is to put the engine on a dyno (£££), or run it on the strip, which some people can't be bothered with either.

And fwiw, I'd have personally thought most owners would want improved driveability, response, handling, braking, maybe even reliability, etc, rather than simply having 'bragging rights' power figures to talk about down the pub, which, as I mentioned before, are pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of real world things anyway.

yeah well thats what was said in my first post to compare x car v's x car and try and come up with a power figure is nonsense i agree .

as for rr's being a waste of time i have to disagree maybe certain rr's aye fudge factor is used to often , but there are rr 's out there that do have a purpose , certainly makes mapping them a whole lot easier /safer .as for power figures if you use the same rr every time it going to give you a close idea , im still not convinced that running down the strip is more accurate as there is still alot of factors to take into account ( i dont want to argue about this ,its just my opinion )

as for the last point yeah driveability does play a big part but its a renault 5 we are discussing not a 400-500 bhp evo , i like to think most owners do consider this when modifing there car i mean what more can you do to the 5 to increase the drivability , most peeps have aftermarket suspension and brakes ,poly bushes stiffer engine mounts ,diffs,wheels and tyres, its not like we are all trying to get our 5's to 300 bhp + and running with standard brakes and suspension :)

[Mart]

yeah well thats what was said in my first post to compare x car v's x car and try and come up with a power figure is nonsense i agree

Aii, hence my 'does it matter' comment, so why the need to flag it up if I'm agreeing with you/you're agreeing with me? :confused:

Mapping can also be carried out on the road; I'd say it's more preferable. Any decent mapper worth their salts will always final-map a car on the roads. Of course, using rollers helps for getting a base map, or a 'good enough' map, but that isn't the subject of this thread, so not sure why we're now going down this path? I thought we were discussing power figures from rollers, not mapping on rollers?

As for improving driveability, your car is a good example of that for starters, in that you've converted it to efi, or am I stating something already obvious here?

[LampsR5]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

lol i guess, just said that so maybe it could help ppl guess roughly what power myn was, im going to it fuelled properly soon down hi tech...p.s the other 5 was my bro's (alex-R5's) old one...not a m8s :P

[Mudslinger]

forget it , your post of "does it really matter" came across as sarcastic either to my post or 5teveL 's,sorry i misunderstood the meaning of your post :)

the only reason i brought up mapping was down to your general statement of rr's are a waste of time, which in my experience is not the case not just for mapping but power figures aswell :) but id also like to add that doing the final mapping on the road is the easiest part .

peace dude ;)

ps nice to read your back as a 5 owner :)

[Mart]

forget it , your post of "does it really matter" came across as sarcastic either to my post or 5teveL 's,sorry i misunderstood the meaning of your post :)

You must've mate, as my/that comment wasn't even aimed at you or Steve :D

It's all good :agree:

[Scoff]

RR's are atleast a waste of my time, I guess it depends on how much you value your own time. Using one to make up a base map might save me 30 minutes for any given engine I map, so usefull for that sure but certainly not cost effective unless I owned it and made a business from it. Like mart says final tuning on the road is the single most important part of the whole operation, that applies to carburettors just as much!!

[clee]

I've got the RR setup all ready to go Scoff :laugh:
1276

[Scoff]

I've got the RR setup all ready to go Scoff :laugh:
1276

now don't go giving my trade secrets away :sad:

[Andrew Cooke]

I've got the RR setup all ready to go Scoff :laugh:
1276

that's how I mapped mine :D

[renault5gtboi]

right ime lilstening so if i get the fueling correct the standard intenals will be ok to tek the 20psi and i could run 200hp safly?? with a uprated cam?? i live in mirfield any one know of a really good rolling road set up place near leeds or surrounding areas :) any info will be gr8 as i want a power read out aswell

[Mudslinger]

RR's are atleast a waste of my time, I guess it depends on how much you value your own time. Using one to make up a base map might save me 30 minutes for any given engine I map, so usefull for that sure but certainly not cost effective unless I owned it and made a business from it. Like mart says final tuning on the road is the single most important part of the whole operation, that applies to carburettors just as much!!

Youve just got that special gift Scoff :p i doubt there is many car owners with the experience / confidence to be able to do the mapping by themselves, and most places that do mapping use rr's .I know there is a few guys out there that do live mapping on the road, the guy the dentist from the evo club is 1 guy i know off , i also look at some of the cars that drive in the time attack , most of these tuners map there cars on rr's ie Norris and extreme to name a couple all the high powered fords i know off are mapped on the rollers, all this final tuning stuff can be done on the rollers without the risk off being in an accident out on the road or breaking the law .

[Scoff]

Trust me, anything that gets a final map on a rolling road will need a lot of luck if the map is going to be anything like what I would accept as adequate.

[Mart]

I've seen a few of the Evo tuner's maps, and they're fecking shocking for so called professionals who supposedly know what they're doing :sad2: I'm not saying I'm the Ahmed Bayjoo or Mark Shead of the mapping game, but if this is the work of modern day/current tuners, things haven't really progressed from the days of off-the-shelf 'grp A' carbs.

[Mart]

Voila, one example of a tuner's (fuelling) map. No chance of that engine ever det'ing!

[Scoff]

I can echo what mart is saying, although I don't have any input on the Japanese world very often. I could show you some tuner maps I've worked on that have cost in the order of 1000 pounds and that were mediocre at best. Ofcourse, those people have been unlucky. Mud, you've been lucky finding yourself a good tuner that knows what they are doing (or more importantly, CARE about what they are doing since so many tuners know but don't care). I have no doubts that a clued up tuner will know how to use his dyno properly and will respect its limitations.

As for being blessed, here was me thinking it was the result of hard work and trial and error. There isn't much in my life other than good health I've ever been blessed with, it will have been a first.

[Mart]

And another, although this one isn't as bad...

[Scoff]

And another, although this one isn't as bad...

you boys have it easy with your "dial in an afr" tomy-my-first-map software :D ;)

but actually, it's fairly common practice for me atleast and others that I know to go heavy on the fuel in the higher regions of map that we havn't mapped. IE, if we're using a 300kpa sensor and the customer only wants 1.5bar of boost then there is 50kpa of uncharterd teritory ofcourse, so I'll go as rich as hell to make sure he doesn't blow it up when fingers start playing with bleed valves.

[Rob@Backyardracing]

I've seen a few of the Evo tuner's maps, and they're fecking shocking for so called professionals who supposedly know what they're doing :sad2: I'm not saying I'm the Ahmed Bayjoo or Mark Shead of the mapping game, but if this is the work of modern day/current tuners, things haven't really progressed from the days of off-the-shelf 'grp A' carbs.

I guess tho they have to at least make them more to cover the arse if a car fails etc in the owners hands as back in the day, i cant see a tuner pushing the cars map to the limits to what we would in this club to our own cars.. i guess its how shocking they are and i guess alot then :D

[LampsR5]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

one thing i dont know much about on 5's are the basic ecu's are you guys saying that their ecus can be mapped or we talking stand alone here? :scratch:

edit i have heard in the past someone told me they had a chip...lol but what would be the point on a carb?

[Rob@Backyardracing]

oh feck shockingggggggggg mart :crap:

[MR TURBO]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

one thing i dont know much about on 5's are the basic ecu's are you guys saying that their ecus can be mapped or we talking stand alone here? :scratch:

edit i have heard in the past someone told me they had a chip...lol but what would be the point on a carb?

Same here one of my mates had a tungy a good couple years ago and said something like he had a chip on it of some sort it was fookin quick tho

[Adam L]

Even when I had my Pulsar mapped last year, I was told it always needed finalising on the open road, which I already knew. I was offered the chance of using a rr and declined.

[Mart]

you boys have it easy with your "dial in an afr" tomy-my-first-map software :D ;)

but actually, it's fairly common practice for me atleast and others that I know to go heavy on the fuel in the higher regions of map that we havn't mapped. IE, if we're using a 300kpa sensor and the customer only wants 1.5bar of boost then there is 50kpa of uncharterd teritory ofcouse, so I'll go as rich as hell to make sure he doesn't blow it up when fingers start playing with bleed valves.

lol, it's not that easy :D

Of course, over-fuelling higher up the end of the scale, that isn't being used, makes sense for potential over-boost scenarios, but that first pic' I linked was a full range/scale map. 12's at idle & part-throttle, and down to 10's at wot. Crazy! From what I recall of the ign' map, that was fairly conservative as well.

Sure, I can appreciate that a tuner would want to err on the side of caution, but that map is taking the p1ss.

Anyway, soz, I've gone way off topic here, and didn't wish to post Evo/Jap related stuff (again :o) which doesn't have much relevance to the gtt.

[Mart]

Lamps, you can't 'chip' or reflash the gtt aei. The only way of making the timing 'adjustable' as such is to play around with the tdc sensor position, reverse the tdc wires, bleed off some of the air going to the vac' capsule, ground the knock sensor connector, etc.

[LampsR5]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

didnt think you could cheers for confirming that, i had a wierd feeling the guy i was talking to at kwik fit was talking complete b******s when i had my tyres changed there

[Mart]

oh feck shockingggggggggg mart :crap:

It is mate, and MLR people are paying a pretty penny to have their car mapped by some of these jokers.

On reflection, I reckon we got away reasonably light back in ye olde days of getting sucked into buying a 'grp A' carb from GT Tuning! :D

[Mart]

...kwik fit...talking complete b******s...

I can see a link there :D

[Sparkie]

all this because once upon a time 'someone' didnt get the same 260 bhp as their mate 'Gary' with exctly the same mods....

if they had, would the rtoc be a different place? :laugh:

[Mart]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

all this because once upon a time 'someone' didnt get the same 260 bhp as their mate 'Gary' with exctly the same mods....

if they had, would the rtoc be a different place? :laugh:

apparently 'something wasn't right'...

[Mart]

Yeah, the magazine quotes!

[Scoff]

bollox, just looked, can't find the copy of PGTI, was going to scan it up :D

I did find a 6yr old pgti with my old rear-engine in it and mart's raider / group thrash feature. some old faces in that.

[Sparkie]

please find this feature....

you have to! - its priceless!

[gtmatt]

i have got a pgti in front of me from sept/oct 2004 with a rr day with u lot on at northampton motorsport scoff 235bhp sparkie 194.5 and with troys view on the matter:)

[Scoff]

i have got a pgti in front of me from sept/oct 2004 with a rr day with u lot on at northampton motorsport scoff 235bhp sparkie 194.5 and with troys view on the matter:)

I got that one here too matt, it's got spencer's feature in it, the one we're talking about is a few years earlier still.

[Mart]

Ironic as it is, but the RR days (and the night) have been some of the best events we've ever had (excluding ND's of course).

Getting to that stage when we should do another one perhaps...?

[Logg]

mmmmmmmm back in the day when we all wanted 300bhp!

don't have a scanner so took a quick pic1 :eek:

[Adey aka Ewok]

mmmmmmmm back in the day when we all wanted 300bhp!

don't have a scanner so took a quick pic1 :eek:

pmsl, mart you were once a **** too, gosh i thought you were born a tuning god, what mods did the 5 have back then?

[Mart]

:wasntme: :laugh:

As (repeatedly) said, it's a misquote.

I also acknowledged, later down the line ;) that Gary's 271hp was a crock of sh1te, as were BB's rollers. Just like when 48 rr'd his car there, about a year or so afterwards, and mysteriously gained 40hp (or whatever it was) from a tdc wire swap...

[Mart]

The operator's comments are more worthy ;) plus not long after that RR day, the car done a 13sec' pass at Pod, which, back then, was a bit of a rarity for a gtt.

[Adey aka Ewok]

The operator's comments are more worthy ;) plus not long after that RR day, the car done a 13sec' pass at Pod, which, back then, was a bit of a rarity for a gtt.

shoulda got a 13 sec shirt from gt tuning lol in fact i might get some made for this years rtoc at pod, would be a good piss take lol

[Mart]

'GT Tuning - Staying ahead'.

'PMTuning - Staying in bed'.

[Big Steve - Raider]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Never seen that feature before!!

Love the Comment about your mate having 270bhp & your cars got the same mods! :wasntme:

[Big Steve - Raider]

'GT Tuning - Staying ahead'.

'PMTuning - Staying in bed'.

Amen! :laugh:

[J$£5GTT]

LOL @ fcuk knows what went wrong but its definatly getting the
nitrous!!
:laugh:

[Markey Mark (BD)]

please find this feature....

you have to! - its priceless!

I got both those mag features tucked away somewhere, i was in both too so kept them safe. I'll have to dig them out at some point and somehow load them up on here.

[Mart]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Never seen that feature before!!

Love the Comment about your mate having 270bhp & your cars got the same mods! :wasntme:

As I keep saying, you geeza, I mentioned nothing of the sort at the time...

[5teve L]

Yeah, yeah Mart, we believe ya :wasntme:

[Sparkie]

i was standing next to you Mart when you were moaning about it.
i think i caught your dummy and handed you a tissue....:laugh:

[Mart]

There's a difference between moaning and misquoting... ;)

[gttjames]

mmmmmmmm back in the day when we all wanted 300bhp!

don't have a scanner so took a quick pic1 :eek:

in the bottom left of that pic, chris gomm, how random i remember seeing his 5 at a motocross meeting i must of only been about 13. (pressuming its the same chris gomm)

[R5GTTdrew]

Have I started a war here??? I was only askin how to get 220ish bhp :laugh:

[DaveMayGTT]

mmmmmmmm back in the day when we all wanted 300bhp!

don't have a scanner so took a quick pic1 :eek:

By the look of it drew all you need to do is aim for about 270 and you will almost be there!

[Sparkie]

Have I started a war here??? I was only askin how to get 220ish bhp :laugh:


short answer: 22psi.

[Matt Cole]

No offence, but imo you can take at least 30 bhp off all of them figuers. I know how hard it is to achieve 200 bhp, setting up correctly and changing parts that fek up, just hoping it holds out long enough on the rollers to get a good figuer.:crap:

[Rob1980]

No offence, but imo you can take at least 30 bhp off all of them figuers. I know how hard it is to achieve 200 bhp, setting up correctly and changing parts that fek up, just hoping it holds out long enough on the rollers to get a good figuer.:crap:

:agree:. 170bhp will make for a very quick road car. IMO unless you are going to use it on the track or down the stip will you really need more?? Also it will be much easier to maintain if you have limited knowledge. I know that some of you do have 200bhp+ but you all have a brilliant understanding of the C1J and its add ons so you can use it day to day with no problems.

My advise would be to forget the 200bhp if you are going to used the car daily unless you know exactly what you are doing and how to spot problems before the esculate.

[Theros]

As you all know...it is not power that that brakes engine or parts from it.

It is usually carefree driver, person with limited knowledge or stupid driver who pushes engine to limits all the time and everyday...even Viper, Ferrari etc won't last long if you don't take care and push to limits from every light, every corner and almost every day.

[renault5gtboi]

were can i take my 5 for setting up?? and rolling road sesstion any good thorts??

[Rob1980]

were can i take my 5 for setting up?? and rolling road sesstion any good thorts??

If you have not already then get yourself a wideband kit and do it yourself.