Access to RTOC Forums from Outside

[Lowiepete]

Hello Folks,

I'll start this thread with a quote from our Projects & Restorations Forum...

Steve,

This looks stunning and problems aside will make you very happy when complete I'm sure!

The small attention to detail such as the door cards and parcel shelf make it stand out
from the normal oe restorations although it all seems to fit in extremely well!

If the pictures are a true reflection, this car is worthy of showing at major events.
I would start with retro show this year and get it displayed proudly.

Keep us informed!;)

Now, I've yet to get round to thanking Matt for his hugely complimentary remarks but
the reason for the quote leads to a request. As more of us opt for "agreed value" and
other specialist insurances, a minefield in itself, giving "read only" access to the Projects
& Resto thread, to those with whom we negotiate I feel would be very useful.

It certainly adds value to being a member. When people with clout in an owner's club
are moved to make such remarks, then it adds weight to what you're talking about
over the 'phone, often to a form-filling person of little knowledge.

It also allows members to point friends and family toward their documented work
through posted links on social media. Although IMO that's probably secondary, it
is still a window into our world.

I don't feel that it's my place to start a poll on this idea, so if a committee member
feels the need, please go ahead. Basically, it's a small change to the viewing/posting
permissions, so it's not a difficult idea to implement. I'll apologise to Mick in advance
for creating more work ;)

Regards,
Steve

[Ian S]

You have to bear in mind that running this club is not for free and so it has to generate revenue to exist.

For some years that's been probably the most popular board. If it were open to everyone in the www without even registering, some current members would not need to log on to keep up with projects, or be a member, and as that board is the only reason some people pay to join, or come here at all, it would reduce membership numbers a bit.

Whether the fact the world could see it would make other people join so as to post there and show off their car to a wider audience I don't know. Would a thread view do that? It would need a more gallery style that we've not been able to do.

Insurers often do have access to the club. Would you ever get a phone clerk looking up your thread on the internet during a renewal phone call? Their job is to offer the least value and highest premium whilst undercutting other insurers. Agreed value is done by a specialist department, or whatever, not over the phone.

[Lowiepete]

You have to bear in mind that running this club is not for free and so it has to generate revenue to exist..
Ian, you seem to have overlooked the words read only
I'm not suggesting for one moment there is open access...

Regards,
Steve

[Lowiepete]

Agreed value is done by a specialist department, or whatever, not over the phone.
I disagree! The conversation leading up to all that does start with a telephone
call, and what better way to show how serious you are than to point someone
to your thread?

Regards,
Steve

[Matt Cole]

I think Steve's suggestion may have been prompted by my link on fb to his restoration thread. I sometimes do this when a good thread is available or updated to generate interest.

Obviously this could only be viewed by paid members and that of paid members actually frequenting rtoc fb at that time.

I do wonder if we would generate more traffic to the website if read only access to project threads were to be provided? In turn, it may generate enough curiosity for the rest of the site for people to join.

My question is, would the paid members object?

[Ian S]

read onlyNo, my point in made for the case of read only. Obviously it couldn't be posting. Normally only registered users can view, same as with Facebook; you need to sign up and have an account to view Facebook. Your suggestion is that non registered users, ie, family members, random insurance clerks, can view. In other words, open access to view.


I do wonder if we would generate more traffic to the website if read only access to project threads were to be provided? In turn, it may generate enough curiosity for the rest of the site for people to join. My question is, would the paid members object?We don't know. What we do know is that some people have said they only come here to view projects in that thread. Giving that away would be income lost. Yes it probably would generate more views for the project thread but would any of those people want to pay to join?

[Ian S]

The conversation leading up to all that does start with a telephone call, and what better way to show how serious you are than to point someone to your thread?My experience so far when I tried to get an agreed valuation is that the insurance company required a form to be completed and submitted with good quality photos and any other evidence.

The phone clerks neither know nor care about, nor want to know anything about, nor have the brain power to not be overwhelmed by, agreed valuations.

The one occasion I've emailed photos to a phone clerk he was speechless, mind blown, couldn't comprehend what anyone would have / want a car like that / parts like that, take photos like that, etc, he just looks up the computer screen and reads it to the customer. Thinking, knowing stuff, deciding anything, not part of his job.

I would expect that with most insurers, an end user is not likely to be able to speak in person to the people who decide the agreed valuations. Sales anyway at, eg, Footman James, Graham Sykes, probably some others, have access to this forum and can look at your thread. Not that they have, a keen salesmen would just use their log-on to place adverts or sometimes answer questions.

[Goobie]

Going back around ten years ago, you was able to tick a box for your build thread to be private or public. I am mearly just pointing out an old feature.

[Ian S]

Well remembered :) Someone from the 'old' site :) This would have been on the original Mark Philips, DTDigital bespoke website that he wrote.

A lot of it had those tick boxes and some of the site was open for the public to view. I'm not sure if they had to register to view.

vBulletin does not have that. To configure it takes some time and patience to pick through the lengthy and complex forum permissions area of the admin control panel. I have done it years ago but no longer recall how.

[Lowiepete]

For some years that's been probably the most popular board. If it were open to
everyone in the www without even registering, some current members would
not need to log on to keep up with projects, or be a member, and as that board
is the only reason some people pay to join, or come here at all, it would reduce
membership numbers a bit.
You claim it's the most popular board. Let's look at some facts. Speaking about
my own thread, over 4 years here it has had 8,000+ visits. Now let's compare that
to another site, not Renault related, where over the same period there have been
close to 300,000 visits! Now, that's what I call busy. In a week over there I can
get 50% of my total visits here, by posting just twice!

Now, let me tell you about my attitude over the 4 years. I have been far more
willing to post to the other board than on RTOC, so much so that I never ever
compose new posts on this site. What's far more valuable to me in that context
is the feedback from car enthusiasts in a different field. What I'm certain of is that
without the other Forum, I would not have put in as much effort in writing reports
or taking photographs as I have!

I absolutely agree with Matt over the greater exposure. To be frank, my feeling is
your attitude to all this is so 1990s. We have a word for it these days, it's called
protectionism and it is well proven to be counter-productive. Even you speak of
people being mind-blown. Well, if that happens to inspire someone else to have a
go for themselves and join us as a result, then I'm doing far more good than just
"preaching to the converted". The latter will have been there and done that.

I don't think it can do any harm for the club to take advantage of the expertise
and to showcase work done by its members. After all, without fail, it's all pretty
darned good! When all the nonsense reared its head back awhile, I took the
view that as a member of an Owner's Club it was down to us to provide a
positive input and carry _our_ club onward and upward. I don't know much
about boosting, but I hope that I have kept my part of that mantra. To be frank,
if this last century attitude still prevails as it did then, I'm really very saddened!

The way of the modern world is exposure, exposure, exposure. It's no good
anyone trumpeting about the Renault Turbo Owners Club if there is very little
that visitors can see to back up the claims. Yes, it's mostly about bite-sized
chunks of information, but I cannot see membership suffering by being open
and welcoming. I'm not in any way suggesting that the entire site be opened
to allcomers, but at the same time I don't think there's enough available to
do much capturing or inspiring.

Regards,
Steve

[Ian S]

A lot of the RTOC committee over the years have been in favour of complete closure of the site to non paying members. It's been the prevailing sentiment. Some wanted to increase the fee to make if more exclusive. I always said the opposite to that. I wanted a lower fee, as we now have down from £25, I suggested many times we lower it further to try and get more users, always to majority opposition. I wanted the open General chat in 2008, which we now have, even though some people have wanted to stop that.

I'm not 'protectionist' or 'stuck in the '90's' and it's insulting of you to make such comments.

RTOC does not have paid advertising. It has to meet is costs or go extinct. There won't be any views of anything if the bills can't be paid. Therefore people need reasons, incentives to pay to join. The clubs economic model is based on that from the beginning after it grew to big to be hosted and managed for free by it's owner as his home chat page / web site and was donated to the 5GTT owners Clubs, a club charging £25 a year for membership back then. How much would that be now? But yes, the free info on the internet and Facebook has changed all that and now people expect everything for free and accept the annoying adverts everywhere.

What is the other site you're referring to? How is it paid for? RTOC does not have anyone to organise and control paid advertising so it can't use that. Anyway, would anyone want to pay to advertise on small car forums now?

[tubbyG]

I have visited some forums as a guest where you can view a limited number of pages say 5 or so without requiring any sort of log in. Anymore then it asks to log in or sign up. This would definitely let some potential members get a taste of what is available to full paid up membership. I assume this could be done using some sort ,of IP tracker or something.

Would this be a viable option? But only to view general chat/projects side of the forum.

I personally would not want any unpaid member to have full "read only" access to the site as they would then be able to obtain or view lots of the valuable informaton that has taken many years to accumulate which is the reason so many members join in the first place.

Many full members here only use the site for its valuable knowledge in the tech section or in past projects who dont even post so I believe that paid membership would actually fall if access was given to all.