View Full Version : Ap Paddle clutch + "green" Valeo cover
So after some poor information on here i'd like to update the records.
The Ap paddle disc part number Cp4814-25 and the "green box" valeo cover.
The diaphragm springs foul on the centre plate spline boss and springs whenever hitting full clutch pedal travel which in turns speeds the input shaft up and you cannot engage gears.
So Que a frustrated night taking out a gearbox again to fit the valeo centre plate.
Well it seems within 3 months and about 500miles my new clutch doesn't like 26psi in 5th and lots of flatshifting.
And back to the Ap paddle i have sat here....
So i decided to speak to the makers AP racing, and within 2 emails + 1 picture of the areas of concern. They wanted me to send them my paddle and the cover plate luckily i have a old "green" cover.
They emailed me back today and confirmed the Paddle part numbered cp4814-25 does indeed fouls the spline boss and then the springs in the centre plate at full travel.
BUT now the interesting part
There's been a lot of cp4814-19 plates going to france/spain insterestingly enough :rolleyes:.
I shall quote the email so people can see.
We list another version of the this plate that we title Reverse Build instead of your CP4814 -25 conventional Pyramid Build.
Basically Reverse Build moves the hub nose a damper spring windows 1.5mm away from the Diaphragm Spring. It also uses a Retainer plate centre that has the height of the damper spring windows ground down by 1mm in height to add more clearance
With these 2 mods its likely sufficient to allow the Diaphragm Spring to clear at full travel and this method doesn’t shorted the spline.
I've given them the go ahead to do what is needed to ensure it doesn't foul on the cover.
Once the plate comes back i will refit it and let everyone know if it works :agree:
Couldnt be arsed to post this on facebook as the information gets lost in seconds
francob80
11-12-2015, 13:22
Great info Fordy, based on your previous posts on Facebook I went with the Helix paddle option instead, still not fitted mind you but this is valuable info nonetheless.
could you possibly take a picture of the mods when it comes back too?
ive fitted the ap centre and a volvo green outer on the f7rt
Yes i shall take pictures when it returns.
If you've fitted the CP4814-25 I promise you at full travel it will rub and speed up the input shaft and you wont beable to select gears depending how sloppy your gearbox is.
I found this out after i rebuilt a gearbox so as you could imagine i was pissed having to take it all out again when i had the idea of its done and forgotten about.
People know of this problem and the cure..."just dont press the pedal all the way down to the floor"
Here's a Iphone quality picture of the concerned area, spline boss outer edge
Yes i shall take pictures when it returns.
If you've fitted the CP4814-25 I promise you at full travel it will rub and speed up the input shaft and you wont beable to select gears depending how sloppy your gearbox is.
I found this out after i rebuilt a gearbox so as you could imagine i was pissed having to take it all out again when i had the idea of its done and forgotten about.
People know of this problem and the cure..."just dont press the pedal all the way down to the floor"
Here's a Iphone quality picture of the concerned area, spline boss outer edge
I've just put one of these into my rebuilt engine , I'm going to be pissed if I have to take the bloody thing out again for a clutch issue for sure .
turbo ted
11-12-2015, 23:57
Had this problem years ago with a helix paddle and helix cover plate my simple solution fit a clutch stop on floor job done;)
francob80
12-12-2015, 14:35
Had this problem years ago with a helix paddle and helix cover plate my simple solution fit a clutch stop on floor job done;)
I hope i don't have the same issue when my helix paddle kit is fitted. :mad:
Loving the feature in PFC by the way. :D
Loving the feature in PFC by the way. :D
off topic
anyone got a copy to scan and post up
turbo ted
12-12-2015, 19:04
Performance French cars
It was an often done thing here in RTOC 10 or more years ago; AP centre and Valeo 801015 cover.
I think it's in my article. No-one had that problem so perhaps they changed one or other design?
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=4749
If you give me the end result info when it all pans out, I can update that article.
They must have changed the design as I had an AP paddle plate in my old raider with a valeo cover and a long arm conversion and it was absolutely fine. No problems at all and it did probably 5k and about 30 or so QM's.
Good shout posting up about it. As fingers crossed no one else has to take their gearbox back out after a clutch change. If that happened to me the air would have most certainly been blue:laugh:
Fair play to AP for sorting it out. Your gonna love the abuse a paddle can take;)
Somethings changed somewhere, but as of current I've first hand experienced them not fitting.
I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere ap racing changed the listing from -19 to -25 for the Renault 5
I've just had mine running and tried getting it in gear to no avail on full depression, looks like she'll be getting a bump stop till I blow the engine up again and sort it then . :(
I have a spare used but good Helix Paddle cover plate if anyone needs it 200mm version for C1j or F7p
in gear to no avail on full depressionHow about part depression?
Is that what you mean Turbo Ted, with the floor stop? The clutch needs to not go all the way down?
How about part depression?
Is that what you mean Turbo Ted, with the floor stop? The clutch needs to not go all the way down?
Yes if you dont go the to the full natural stop of the pedal it will go into gear with no problems. The problem i think i will have is working out where the best place to put a stop with out it causing the clutch to slip on gear change. ( Or am i just over thinking here? )
Every time you press it all the way down little bits of swarf are being created, could works its way into the release bearing, input bearing and damaging the seal or in between the clutch plate and cover or flywheel scoring the face.
Every time you press it all the way down little bits of swarf are being created, could works its way into the release bearing, input bearing and damaging the seal or in between the clutch plate and cover or flywheel scoring the face.
i would suspect it will be weaking the spring plate too.
This case is now confirmed cured and closed.
Email back from AP today.
They reworked my plate into a cp4814-19 plate.
Tested n confirmed that it now clears the valeo cover at full travel.
If someone could send me photos of their -25 plate then I can make comparison photos of my -19
It does certainly look nice.
And because they rebuilt my plate.
I've now got the thicker friction plates and the -19 hub setup
Hence why the box and plate now have a cp4814-special written on them
francob80
18-12-2015, 09:19
Did they charge you anything Fordy or was it FOC?
I just called AP Racing and they're changing my -25 order for a -19. Is there any way one of the senior RTOC people can email them about the problem?
Did they explain what happened? Ie, did they change the part number of the original part that did fit? Or change the part but keep the number, then have to make another part, same as the old part, and create a new number?
The AP CP4814-25 has a thickness of 7.62m and the CP4814-19 is 7.11m. I spoke with Nick Olson at AP Racing who said the -19 is thinner and might wear alot quicker depending on what it's mated to. :confused:
The Cp4814-25 is a "Conventional Build"
The Cp4814-19 is a "Reverse Build"
The -19 "build" moves the spine nose and springs closer to the flywheel 2-3mm.
No parts have been changed from the -25 plate i sent them.... only reordered to gain clearance.
They have machined the Spline boss at a taper and the "spring window" edges flatter
They've retained my 7.62mm pads.
The problem is with the -25 and Valeo "green box" cover
The recommended paddle part number is now CP4814-19 if you do not wish to make clutch pedal stops
If you speak to them when you order a CP4814-19 and ask for 7.62mm friction pads i'm sure they could accommodate your request, if you have good conversation skills that is.
So that would suggest AP make two different versions of the -19, the standard and the 4.62mm pads.
Will they be making an other part number the special special, not -25, not -19?
I sent a -25
I got back my -25 but built to -19 specs
They retained my original -25 pads
My part number is cp4814-special.
That's it.
Order cp4814-19 when using valeo green box covers.
Cp4814-25 is designed for OE covers
Or if your scared of wear, ring and ask for a custom cp4814-19 with 7.62mm pads
Thread closed.
You didn't get a -25 back.
You got a -19 with 25 pads. That is not a -25 or a -19.
So the answer would be to ask for a cp4814-special and ask them to confirm that it's the -19 with the -25 pads.
Thanks for your feedback :)
Just order -19
Or custom -19 with 7.62mm pads
Will change my order to include 7.62mm pads...thanks all :agree:
Very happy with my new purchase cp4814- special reverse build. Pete Collen is the person to speak with at AP Racing Techical Dept for more info.Thanks again Ian ;)
Excellent, we have the actual full part number from the box :)
Good photos :) Thanks for posting all that Vinny.
At some point I'll try and get this new info into the article :agree:
They are probably one of the most helpful company's I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with, Ap went well beyond anything I expected
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