VAG engines

[5teve L]

What are the limits of the VAG internals before you have to go forged ?
Is the VAG lump the same as the Audi pretty sure they are or similar....??
Do you have to change the turbo on them & manifolds or exhaust/cams to get the most out of them?
Thinking of a new car but want something a little different to play with, either an A3 or S3 (or if all else fails an 04 BMW 330 cd) :)

& yes i am aware this is a RENAULT Turbo forum, i know that some of you have/know VAG engines, hence the Q.

TIA
Steve

[Andrew Cooke]

Volkwagen Audi Group...

this or that breaks at x hp, cracking way to boost your turnover.

[Duncan Grier]

Steve so many variants between the VAG engines. But if your looking at the 1.8 20V turbo engine there are only a few differences

Turbos (of which are matched to a manifold / downpipe) K03, K03s & K04 (150, 180, 210/225) sts power and all can handle a remap to approx (200, 210, 280) some other parts are needed to extract this ie cooling / exhaust / air filter.

All versions can handle 300bhp day in day out, there are then differences berween engine spec where the rod pins are bigger (AGU, 22mm) vs say AUM (19mm) and apparently can handle 330-350 but a bit of a time bomb with rods at that power driven hard. Some people run more and have been ok - you take the chance but to get over 290bhp you are on new mani and turbo

Again depending on version clutch / flywheel to be reviewed - most scrap the dual mass for a G60 flywheel and VR6 clutch which will handle 300bhp and rev a lot quicker.

Oh injector are different between turbo specs also

If you have any Q just ask ;) not much I can't answer around the 20V turbo :D

Hope this helps a bit ;)

[5teve L]

Cheers Duncan, food for thought....

[Adam L]

ATP do a variation of turbo's for them too, GT28r, GT28RS, GT2871R and so on... I saw ATP's cast exhaust housing, and i've got to say, it's a pretty good peice of kit.

[Theros]

I assume that you are not speaking from diesel engines...

I know little bit more about diesel engines...for fact I knolw that Seat Leon with 1.9 TDi engine is able to handle 300 bhp and 520 nm of torque (but gearbox will surrend sooner or later).

Friend of mine has highly tuned diesel engine in Seat Leon y.m. 2000 (old fashion VW Golf diesel engine, so called Power Diesel). He measured power from engine: 560 nm and 298 bhp ....that is quite lot of when we are speaking about light weight car. He run with those about three months and then he broke gearbox. After power was decreased to 298 bhp and 500 nm...it lasts...at least better. He has run with that power for year and half.

[MR TURBO]

I assume that you are not speaking from diesel engines...

I know little bit more about diesel engines...for fact I knolw that Seat Leon with 1.9 TDi engine is able to handle 300 bhp and 520 nm of torque (but gearbox will surrend sooner or later).

Friend of mine has highly tuned diesel engine in Seat Leon y.m. 2000 (old fashion VW Golf diesel engine, so called Power Diesel). He measured power from engine: 560 nm and 298 bhp ....that is quite lot of when we are speaking about light weight car. He run with those about three months and then he broke gearbox. After power was decreased to 298 bhp and 500 nm...it lasts...at least better. He has run with that power for year and half.

What things are good for diesels for extra power??

[5teve L]

I assume that you are not speaking from diesel engines...

I know little bit more about diesel engines...for fact I knolw that Seat Leon with 1.9 TDi engine is able to handle 300 bhp and 520 nm of torque (but gearbox will surrend sooner or later).

Friend of mine has highly tuned diesel engine in Seat Leon y.m. 2000 (old fashion VW Golf diesel engine, so called Power Diesel). He measured power from engine: 560 nm and 298 bhp ....that is quite lot of when we are speaking about light weight car. He run with those about three months and then he broke gearbox. After power was decreased to 298 bhp and 500 nm...it lasts...at least better. He has run with that power for year and half.

I'd be interested to know whats been done to the engine to get those figures, Deisel is something i'm looking into as well :)

[Theros]

What things are good for diesels for extra power??

Depends what you are looking for.

It is very important to check type of pump that is in diesel engine. Rotary fuel injection pump and Unit injector....and of course advanced technology common rail.

I have tuned engines from all categories.

Increasing boost pressure is simpliest way. Cheapest mod is to add ballspring component. It is in t-shape and there are spring which is stiff. In this situation boost pressure have to increase enought that spring will implode and then let pressure go to IC. This might increase power 10-20 bhp.

Then second choise is to add more fuel which will increase power too. There are quite good instructions to do that...it will cost about 20€ and will increase power about 5-10 bhp. All necessary things can be bought from local shop. Little bit electronics actually.

Changing turbo is good way.

Timing is important. When you add boost pressure, use "powerbox" etc, then timing should be checked. It can be done using VAGCOM program (I have one) and cable. Should be used with laptop.

When we built my friends Leon we did following:

We changed turbo, exhaust manifold, exhaust system, bigger injectors (to add fueling), intercooler and timing. Funny thing is that consumption is same in normal drive and when you press pedal little bit more then it slightly higher (7.3 ltr/100 km).

Ask...maybe I can be more specific...it pretty hard to explain everything.

[Theros]

Actually one interesting thing is, that Seat (or VAG) gave papers where are 150 bhp for government. Actually 99% of Seat Leons have 160-175 bhp...even it says 150 in official papers. We have tested that with 7 different cars :).

Diesel is always fun ride, because of torque... 500 nm is quite lot of torque in small car.

In my Seat Toledo (couple of years ago) were only 198 bhp and 408 nm. It was fun to race against BMW 525D. Poor guy watched me when my Seat burned rubber when we left from lights ;) ... you should see his face :cool:

[5teve L]

Hmmm, thanks for that, i like the part where the fuel consumption is the same (if you drive normally round town)

Deffo something i'd be looking into... anyone know the fastest 1/4 mile deisel car :D

[Beardo]

what price are you likely to pay for a 1.8t engine roughly whether it be a 150bhp or 225bhp, as i'm thinking about one for the new project ;)

[Theros]

Hmmm, thanks for that, i like the part where the fuel consumption is the same (if you drive normally round town)

Deffo something i'd be looking into... anyone know the fastest 1/4 mile deisel car :D

Check from here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcQtDS-spWg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1AYa4_EHBs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ruZCq3yc4&feature=related

So...almost "standard" TDi VAG goes to 13.XXX 1/4 mile

[minty83]

what price are you likely to pay for a 1.8t engine roughly whether it be a 150bhp or 225bhp, as i'm thinking about one for the new project ;)
seen a few on a ebay, a freshly built forged 1.8t lump went for 660 couple of weeks back.. but then iv seen bam engines (tt) go for 1k... so id say allow for a 1k for engine, mani, injectors and turbo

[Theros]

First link from Finland...I know that guy. Car is MB 300D ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUppvE8zSdM


MB is fastest diesel...I think. But Renault Megane DTi (<-- 2001) is pretty fast too, if you tune up engine a little bit.

[T.K]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

I have an AGU coded Audi 1.8T for sale. It's the strong one (22mm gudgeon pins), with the big valve head. Mechanical throttle. I got what you neeeeed. Give me a shout if you're interested.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Theros,

Do you know anything about the Renault 1.5DCI 106hp engine?

I want to tune mine up once i retire it...

Best 1/4 mile so far is 18.09 @ 74.5mph :(

[Theros]

Theros,

Do you know anything about the Renault 1.5DCI 106hp engine?

I want to tune mine up once i retire it...

Best 1/4 mile so far is 18.09 @ 74.5mph :(

Hello....yes I have similar in daily use ;) ...I know something about it.

First thing and probably the cheapest solution is to to change program. Don't buy ready made chip (so called universal chip). Take your car to some workshop which can upload modified program. That way you don't need to change anything physically. That program will change timing, add fueling and increase boost pressure. That turbo is able to handle 1.4 - 1.5 bar (measured after IC). Before IC pressure should be about 1.8 bar...I don't know how much in PSI. If you change intercooler, then try to find "flow through IC". Therefore it won't stop air too much that it can cool down engine also.

Changing program will increase power to 130 bhp maybe little bit over...and that is still safe. Turbo is smaller that it is in dCi 1.9, so next step should be changing turbo.

If you are willing to do more at once, then change turbo and exhaust system and program.

[MR TURBO]

Theros,

Do you know anything about the Renault 1.5DCI 106hp engine?

I want to tune mine up once i retire it...

Best 1/4 mile so far is 18.09 @ 74.5mph :(

Also same question as above but for a Audi A3 1.9 td red I

[Theros]

Also same question as above but for a Audi A3 1.9 td red I

Is it power diesel or not? Is it rotary injection or unit injector?

Chespest and quickest way to increase power in old fashion TDi is to add bleedvalve (rises pressure higher before opening) and build mod to increase fueling. Should help clearly.

You will certainly need boost gauge that you can set up right boost level. Original turbo will handle about 1.4 bar (max. 1.6 bar). No more in long run.

Hmmm...you should do evry mod. Try to google instructions, but it should give about 10 bhp...maybe more and is very cheap to do :) ....

Next step is probably changing intercooler and then turbo.

Remember to place switch to evry mod. If mod is used when you start engine, then it might cause some serious starting problems :) .

Then there will come some black smoke ;) ....don't be scared. It is colour of power :), more black smoke, more power :) .

[5teve L]

Yes, i noticed the smoke :scared::eek:

Still a good crack to smoke people off the lights....literaly :laugh:

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Thanks Theros, gave me plenty of ideas...

For those who want to continue talking about Diesel Tuning perhaps we can use this thread..

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=3780