Running problems help please

[Aterro]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Hi,

Got sone running on my GT that I've just bought

It wasn't running great when I bought it.
The previous owner said its been bad since he built it.


It struggles to idle
Runs very rich
Sounds like it's pinking at low revs

It's a d reg

He has moved the Aei into bulkhead it's a 209 model Aei

Ignition timing----

Do I turn engine over until gearbox meets point on flywheel
Then check point faces first cylinder on cap ??
And if it doesn't??

Do I take it out completely, turn it to meet 1st on cap then stick in??

Or am I being stupid? And just change the Aei??

What's the difference between 208/209??

Cheers

[Trevhib]

Don't change the AEI unless you suspect it is broken in some way. The 209 is just a later version of the 208, with one or two very small changes, including a better ignition map. You're actually better off.

[Trevhib]

As regards timing, I'm a total dunce but there is loads in here:

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/search.php?searchid=5887

This one discusses timing marks and how to check timing with a strobe.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=30950

I assume it's possible for that to be correct but for the distributor to be out of alignment. So a search on how to check and adjust the distributor gear will also help. :agree:

[Aterro]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Ahhhh

Just found out Ignition timing isn't adjustable, just make sure distrubtor gear is correctly placed into engine

Guess it's not that then haha

[fastevo1]

Its not a black phase 1 from warminster is it?

[Aterro]

Nope.......

[youngscottie]

cylinder no1 is at the flywheel end
before getting to deep into it check the leads are on in the correct order
very common mistake

[Aterro]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x75/aaront1234/F2C100AD-0948-48CB-81CB-7ECD3247C003_zpsozykfsr7.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/aaront1234/media/F2C100AD-0948-48CB-81CB-7ECD3247C003_zpsozykfsr7.jpg.html)

This is my setup

[youngscottie]

If I were you I'd start at the beginning
Remove the rocker cover turn the engine to tdc no4 on the rock
Then check where the rotor arm is pointing on the cap

I can't remember the direction of rotation on the dizzy so turn it over
And check the rest of the lads are in order

[Aterro]

If I were you I'd start at the beginning
Remove the rocker cover turn the engine to tdc no4 on the rock
Then check where the rotor arm is pointing on the cap

I can't remember the direction of rotation on the dizzy so turn it over
And check the rest of the lads are in order


It turns clockwise

I don't understand what you've put above though -not fully anyway.

Can you re write it please?

[youngscottie]

If cylinder no1 is at tdc on ignition stroke then 4 is on the rock ie exhaust valve closing and inlet valve opening
If you never built the motor its worth checking can timing and dizzy gear position
Has it always run rough since the build or did it start after a bit
of use

[Aterro]

Just spoke to previous owner via a text.

He stated
Built it
Ran fine
Left in garage for 3 years
Then he tried to tune it as best as he could as it wouldn't run properly

When I bought it, he said to me it was ignition timing and he couldn't do it as he didn't have the timing light.

I bought it, read the Haynes manual and found out it's not adjustable.

It's fine whe iits moving along and under boost, doesn't cough or stutter at high revs at all.
Just super rich, and weird idle issues.
Under 2k sounds like it's pinking, usually sits around 1.5k
1.8k or even 1k sometimes haha

[rabbitstew]

Could be a combination of things. Mine idled like crap after I had the head/carb/manifolds gasflowed and ported out. The cause of mine was the restrictors in the breather pipes - id forgotten to put them back in. That seemed to resolve that issue. The rich running - you might be able to adjust the fuel mixture & carb to resolve that. Ideally you`d need an AFR gauge to see exactly what its doing throughout the rev range.

[Charlie]

Could be a combination of things. Mine idled like crap after I had the head/carb/manifolds gasflowed and ported out. The cause of mine was the restrictors in the breather pipes - id forgotten to put them back in. That seemed to resolve that issue. The rich running - you might be able to adjust the fuel mixture & carb to resolve that. Ideally you`d need an AFR gauge to see exactly what its doing throughout the rev range.

Hi sorry for butting in. I may have my restrictors in in the wrong place. does the large one go before the tee or after and the small one going out of the tee to manifold?

[rabbitstew]

Hi sorry for butting in. I may have my restrictors in in the wrong place. does the large one go before the tee or after and the small one going out of the tee to manifold?

I cant remember off hand without looking, but the thread below might help.

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=2074&highlight=breather+restrictor

"there are 2, 1 is between the T piece and the inlet manifold, and the other goes between the swirl pot and the T piece."

[Aterro]

Pretty sure there's no restrictors in the breather pipes

What do they look like? Pictures of location please?



Cheers

[Trevhib]

They look like the following, cost £13 in total and go in the places described above and as show in the pic on the linked thread:


Genuine Renault 5 GT Turbo Antipollution Large and Small Restrictors
http://www.gt-turbo-spares.co.uk/?page_id=26


http://www.gt-turbo-spares.co.uk/cart/images/products/Breather%20restitorL.jpg

http://www.gt-turbo-spares.co.uk/cart/images/products/Breather%20restitor%20S.jpg

[Alex]

As a quick test you could perhaps by-pass the breather system by removing the pipe on the inlet manifold and plugging it to see if the revs steady.

If it was running fine after he built it and it's been tucked away for a while I'd be stripping the carb down and giving it a good clean and put fresh fuel in.

[Aterro]

Hes drove it around 1k since he got it back out of retirement
and i did 60-70 miles driving it home from buying it.....

Ive just bought a second hand working carb to see if that sorts it and a carb rebuild kit from the shop on here!



Regarding the breather.

The restrictors, where should they be placed?? and there should be 2 of them, one smaller one bigger?

And where the breather system goes i have two ports on the back of the inlet ( below the carb)
should i just block them off and try it? to see if it is the restrictors?
cheers

[Aterro]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x75/aaront1234/IMG_5371_zps59d58794.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/aaront1234/media/IMG_5371_zps59d58794.jpg.html)


this is the engine in question..

The breather hose has definitely been replaced....

[Trevhib]

Regarding the breather.

The restrictors, where should they be placed?? and there should be 2 of them, one smaller one bigger?


It's been said three times now that there are two restrictors. It's mentioned three posts up that there is a small and a large one. On the link provided to the seller, you can see there are two; one small, one large. Five posts up there is a link and a quote from it describing where they go:

"One is between the T piece and the inlet manifold, and the other goes between the swirl pot and the T piece." I searched the boards for 'breather restrictor' and found the following, "they fit into the t-piece and are held in place by the hose clips."

Now see the pic below.

[Trevhib]

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong. This is the t-piece in question right?

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Troubleshooting%20pictures/IMG_5371_zps59d58794.jpg

The breather system looks to be correct but you need to undo the clips and check to see if the restrictors are fitted into the T-piece.

Don't get confused by the blue pipe-work, that is the boost circuit (larger ones) and some of the coolant circuit (smaller ones).

[Aterro]

Ahhhh i understand

so the two restrictors should be like this ( the red lines)

http://i62.tinypic.com/23staao.jpg


Thank you!

[Trevhib]

Yes, if what other people have written is right. Looks like the pipe to the manifold is the larger one and therefore should have the larger restrictor in it.

You might find that both restrictors are fitted but it's well worth checking to make sure, also check the pipes for splits. :agree:

Engine bay looks in good condition :)

[Alex]

smaller one bigger?

And where the breather system goes i have two ports on the back of the inlet ( below the carb)
should i just block them off and try it? to see if it is the restrictors?
cheers

If you're going to do this don't block both of them! Block the one on the right only. The one on the left goes to the brake servo.

[Aterro]

Yes, if what other people have written is right. Looks like the pipe to the manifold is the larger one and therefore should have the larger restrictor in it.

You might find that both restrictors are fitted but it's well worth checking to make sure, also check the pipes for splits. :agree:

Engine bay looks in good condition :)



Thanks!

Update:

I have just checked in the pipes ( picture below)

And there is no restrictors

The pipes have been changed also, and look similar in size currently.


So touchwood my running issuses are down to the restrictors not being there. Hopefully haha

I'll update this when I fit the new bits!


Picture : pipes in question are shown here
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x75/aaront1234/2014-07/938ED00D-31CA-4DE6-BFD5-80967A1D7BE4_zpsjyk6i8yq.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/aaront1234/media/2014-07/938ED00D-31CA-4DE6-BFD5-80967A1D7BE4_zpsjyk6i8yq.jpg.html)

[Trevhib]

If you order them from GT Turbo spares, get on the phone with Mike to check which one goes in which part of the T-piece. :agree:

[Aterro]

He hasn't got any in ATM

He may have sone second hand ones, but he said he will let me know.

[GTphil]

Maybe I'm missing a trick here but if i were you i would just get rid of the breather system all together. I have ran for years with the pipe on the back of the inlet manifold blocked off. The carb middle the actuator, and the carb base to the a.e.i with a boost gauge take off. Try this and if it runs ok your sorted.

If not i would be checking the accelerator emulsion tube is not blocked up or indeed any other part of the carb. Everytime i have left a carb with fuel in for more than say 12 months it's ran like a bag of spanners until the carb has been cleaned. Also the idle jet is a ballbag for blocking up, makes the car run like it has an air leak or something. Again i have had to repeatedly clean this out before it would run right.


You mentioned in one of your posts about trying a known working carb. Have you done this yet?

[Charlie]

Thanks!

Update:

I have just checked in the pipes ( picture below)

And there is no restrictors

The pipes have been changed also, and look similar in size currently.


So touchwood my running issuses are down to the restrictors not being there. Hopefully haha

I'll update this when I fit the new bits!


Picture : pipes in question are shown here
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x75/aaront1234/2014-07/938ED00D-31CA-4DE6-BFD5-80967A1D7BE4_zpsjyk6i8yq.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/aaront1234/media/2014-07/938ED00D-31CA-4DE6-BFD5-80967A1D7BE4_zpsjyk6i8yq.jpg.html)

The restrictor goes to the other side of the tee, don't know if this makes any difference.

[Charlie]

That doesn't look like the correct tee. The connection going to the manifold should be of smaller diameter and that's where the smaller restrictor goes and the larger restrictor goes to the opposite side of the tee of the pipe you have off. :agree:

[Aterro]

The previous owner updated the breather system hence different piping and tee.

I've ordered new tee, hoses and the two restrictors now

I'm awaiting my new working carb which was rebuilt

So just a waiting game now for parts!

I've got a renault diagram to show where restrictors go now, so that's all sorted too!

But your right Charlie! One before the tee then one after tee towards inlet way.

[Charlie]

The previous owner updated the breather system hence different piping and tee.

I've ordered new tee, hoses and the two restrictors now

I'm awaiting my new working carb which was rebuilt

So just a waiting game now for parts!

I've got a renault diagram to show where restrictors go now, so that's all sorted too!

But your right Charlie! One before the tee then one after tee towards inlet way.

All the parts you need are on ebay, the hose looks ok. Page 69 the restrictor's or on there is both sizes, cant remember the page number for the tee but there's a couple on.:)

[Trevhib]

The previous owner updated the breather system hence different piping and tee.

I've ordered new tee, hoses and the two restrictors now

I'm awaiting my new working carb which was rebuilt

So just a waiting game now for parts!

I've got a renault diagram to show where restrictors go now, so that's all sorted too!

But your right Charlie! One before the tee then one after tee towards inlet way.

Great news. Will be interesting to see if this fixes your problems. It will certainly help.

As for the diagram, please upload to the site.

[Aterro]

Diagram for future reference

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x75/aaront1234/ScreenShot2014-07-21at193124_zps6b89164c.png (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/aaront1234/media/ScreenShot2014-07-21at193124_zps6b89164c.png.html)

[Charlie]

Diagram for future reference

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x75/aaront1234/ScreenShot2014-07-21at193124_zps6b89164c.png (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/aaront1234/media/ScreenShot2014-07-21at193124_zps6b89164c.png.html)

Number 13 small restrictor number 11 large restrictor. :agree:

[rabbitstew]

Awesome i need to double check mine again as im about to replace all the hoses.

[Trevhib]

Thanks very much Aterro.

I have copied the file and uploaded it to the site in the dialogys technical documents folder:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/?path=Technical%20Files/R5GTT%20Dialogys%20Technical%20Documents/

[gorde 5]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Hi everyone,i owned this car and carb was fine and idled fine in winter but then in summer develepod fuel starvation due to heat,hose in air filter has a restrictor but could not find correct tee piece at time,re located ecu inside bulkhead as connectors prone were knackered,hope this helps, was a great car an i miss it already.