View Full Version : SO... where are we upto?
I'm interested to see where we are upto???
i.e. I've read "somewhere" on here that we're having the site look at by geeks?... so whats the outcome???
I read that you want a new SAR...... so have we had any people interested?? or is it going to drag on longer than an American election????
People haven't been paying.... well I was one, but I paid before xmas... dunno how long I had been expired but I didn't have an email or a 'banner' but when I went to edit my info it said I had expired... so I paid
so...
anything else???
this is the problem.... while we don't need to know... its NICE TO KNOW.... get over this problem guys or we're gonna being going in circles until we fall over
I'm interested to see where we are upto???
i.e. I've read "somewhere" on here that we're having the site look at by geeks?... so whats the outcome???
I read that you want a new SAR...... so have we had any people interested?? or is it going to drag on longer than an American election????
People haven't been paying.... well I was one, but I paid before xmas... dunno how long I had been expired but I didn't have an email or a 'banner' but when I went to edit my info it said I had expired... so I paid
so...
anything else???
this is the problem.... while we don't need to know... its NICE TO KNOW.... get over this problem guys or we're gonna being going in circles until we fall over
I'm sure Ian will be along with all the info soon enough, but..
The site was looked at, then nothing has been heard since, I believe Gordon may be discussing options as we speak.
a total of 2 people have applied for the SAR, I may put my name up, I have asked what it involves before committing myself.
I think Ian mentioned that Chris (Scoff) had sorted the expired members thing.
You are right though, we should be kept in the loop a little more, a little knowledge goes a long way sometimes.
Hopefully the Steve/Mart saga comes to a conclusion soon though as it has dragged on long enough.
That's all I know :)
Thanks for the update Steve it has gone all quite
Big Steve - Raider
26-01-2014, 18:28
Hopefully the Steve/Mart saga comes to a conclusion soon though as it has dragged on long enough.....
:uhhuh:
It's kind of difficult for the Committee to provide updates about every single thing frequently, especially when theres nothing very interesting to report! Generally speaking though:
The website - Not something I can accurately report on as I'm not a computer person. Ian S/Gordon B are looking into another provider I beleive, in an attempt to provide a better service.
SAR postion - Yes indeed we are after one. I have posted up the job role for anyone and evenyone who wants to apply. We have 1 definate person who has applied at present.
People that have not paid issue - Yeah weird one that and it's been something thats been very hard for anyone to notice. Scoff beleives it could be an issue with a bug on the website potentially. It's sorted now though.
Steve & Mart nonesense - This needs sorting ASAP and they'll be more on that soon. I beleive they both know what the Committee want from them.
That's generally the most important up to date stuff at the moment. :)
Alex, I can't talk for Steve, but I've had no contact from any CM's as to 'what the Committee want from them' in an official context.
Hi Mart.
I hope you guys get all this sorted out. :(
What the CM's require seems to have been laid out in Alex's thread here: http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=36239
"the committee need to understand how access was gained to the private boards...<and require> either <Mart or Steve> to provide an explanation."
Thanks Trev. Appreciated.
I don't understand why the CM's can't contact us directly, instead of airing the dirty laundry via 'power trip' esque posts for all to read?
Alex et all CM's - I've mentioned this several times already, so for the last time of saying it: I do not know who directly hacked or whatever that thread. Which part of that doesn't make sense?
My only 'guilt' in all this is deleting a thread, of which no-one was gonna subsequently be kept in the dark about. If you think that is worthy of a 6 month ban, then fine, crack on.
We'll simply ignore everything else I've done for the club over the past ~18 years eh...
Thanks Trev. Appreciated.
I don't understand why the CM's can't contact us directly, instead of airing the dirty laundry via 'power trip' esque posts for all to read?
Alex et all CM's - I've mentioned this several times already, so for the last time of saying it: I do not know who directly hacked or whatever that thread. Which part of that doesn't make sense?
My only 'guilt' in all this is deleting a thread, of which no-one was gonna subsequently be kept in the dark about. If you think that is worthy of a 6 month ban, then fine, crack on.
We'll simply ignore everything else I've done for the club over the past ~18 years eh...
You saw the thread mart so you must know I would know who has done it if I had seen it ? Steve has copied and pasted the commitee response to you both over to Facebook is that airing the dirty laundry enough for you? I also accept this situation is damaging the club. Also I think at least you reply to the threads in a decent manner. Steve could of posted on here to discuss this but instead copy and paste's it over to Facebook I suspect he likes the drama, or maybe it's for attention ? And now we have people on Facebook calling commitee members all sorts and it's laughable because they don't know any of us what we do or who we are. But we have put the ball in yours and Steve's court now
Big Steve - Raider
27-01-2014, 16:35
You saw the thread mart so you must know I would know who has done it if I had seen it ? Steve has copied and pasted the commitee response to you both over to Facebook is that airing the dirty laundry enough for you? I also accept this situation is damaging the club. Also I think at least you reply to the threads in a decent manner. Steve could of posted on here to discuss this but instead copy and paste's it over to Facebook I suspect he likes the drama, or maybe it's for attention ? And now we have people on Facebook calling commitee members all sorts and it's laughable because they don't know any of us what we do or who we are. But we have put the ball in yours and Steve's court now
Would it not be easier to post the CM's response and then leave the thread open for us to reply to..... Rather than immediately lock it down?! It's like pin the tail on the donkey trying to find the right place to reply!
Anyway, I Put my side of the story down in one of the other threads that got locked by the CM... :coffee:
If you're waiting for me to dob someone in for revealing what the Committee were saying about me then you might as well start my 6 month ban now as I ain't telling. :cooter:
Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite
Big Steve - Raider
27-01-2014, 16:49
Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite
Thank you Chris
andybond
27-01-2014, 16:53
Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite
Chris, from what I have seen of the CM boards , that is also hypocritical. CMs have written offensive things on there too.
This situation needs to stop , quickly before it sinks RTOC. I dont think it is fair of the CM to ask for information and threaten with a ban if not given especially after everything the restricted access ones have done.
Chris, if you're going to reply, then reply to me, about me/my post. If you have an issue with what Steve is or isn't doing, take it up with him on another post/PM.
For the umpeenth time of saying it, I saw screen-shots of that thread, which were emailed to me 3rd hand. I've since deleted the email & screen-shots, after I posted my thread about it in the 'bad threads' section a few weeks back (the one which you replied back in saying you had no problem talking to me face to face about it, or whatever the comment was now).
I don't know about your family health issues, nor have I read anything anywhere about it. I do have a heart though, so I'm sorry to hear that.
You're right, I have been replying & addressing all this in a decent manner; it's a shame the Committee hasn't.
As for the backlash on FB; the Committee brought this on theirself - They could've nipped this in the bud right from the start, let bygones be bygones, given us a slap on the wrist via a PM, etc etc, but no, they wanted to make a mountain out of a mole hill out of it. And for what? What is any of this actually going to achieve now?
Chris, from what I have seen of the CM boards , that is also hypocritical. CMs have written offensive things on there too.
This situation needs to stop , quickly before it sinks RTOC. I dont think it is fair of the CM to ask for information and threaten with a ban if not given especially after everything the restricted access ones have done.
Not everyone likes each other that's not a revelation Andy I could find stuff mart and Steve have written about others but to sneak about hacking or however it was done isn't on when as said there's stuff on there that was personal but I have learnt my lesson there now
Chris, from what I have seen of the CM boards , that is also hypocritical. CMs have written offensive things on there too.
This situation needs to stop , quickly before it sinks RTOC. I dont think it is fair of the CM to ask for information and threaten with a ban if not given especially after everything the restricted access ones have done.
Agree with andy her,whoever wrote offensive things from the committee should give an apology IMO ,I've not seen any of the committee saying sorry for offensive comments, so the committee can write offensive comments but members can't ?? Very poor show
andybond
27-01-2014, 17:13
Not everyone likes each other that's not a revelation Andy I could find stuff mart and Steve have written about others but to sneak about hacking or however it was done isn't on when as said there's stuff on there that was personal but I have learnt my lesson there now
Hi Chris,
I know that not everyone gets along. Thats life. I can accept that. What I am referring to fella is that you cant have a pop at Steve saying things if others on the CM have had a pop at Steve. Thats the matter of fact.
Regarding the personal stuff , I don't believe anyone has commented positive or negative? That has been left well alone ?
I should hope that any personal stuff is done outside the boards for security reasons. Stuff like bank details / logons etc in case of a compromised situation.
Agree with andy her,whoever wrote offensive things from the committee should give an apology IMO ,I've not seen any of the committee saying sorry for offensive comments, so the committee can write offensive comments but members can't ?? Very poor show
The thread that started on the commitee boards that got copied was in response to a lot of stuff written on Facebook Matt and we could go round in circles all day because if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?
Hi Chris,
I know that not everyone gets along. Thats life. I can accept that. What I am referring to fella is that you cant have a pop at Steve saying things if others on the CM have had a pop at Steve. Thats the matter of fact.
Regarding the personal stuff , I don't believe anyone has commented positive or negative? That has been left well alone ?
I should hope that any personal stuff is done outside the boards for security reasons. Stuff like bank details / logons etc in case of a compromised situation.
A lot of what is done on here is done using trust Andy so yea the cm boards being hacked is no good for the club . I also accept that once it starts with mud slinging it gets extremely difficult for it to stop because like it or not we are all just people and we all get angry say things and do things that on reflection weren't the best. Now as I keep repeating all I want to know is who did it once sorted I am happy to move on weather they read my thread or not that's where I stand on it
if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?
:coffee:
Chris, if you're going to reply, then reply to me, about me/my post. If you have an issue with what Steve is or isn't doing, take it up with him on another post/PM.
For the umpeenth time of saying it, I saw screen-shots of that thread, which were emailed to me 3rd hand. I've since deleted the email & screen-shots, after I posted my thread about it in the 'bad threads' section a few weeks back (the one which you replied back in saying you had no problem talking to me face to face about it, or whatever the comment was now).
I don't know about your family health issues, nor have I read anything anywhere about it. I do have a heart though, so I'm sorry to hear that.
You're right, I have been replying & addressing all this in a decent manner; it's a shame the Committee hasn't.
As for the backlash on FB; the Committee brought this on theirself - They could've nipped this in the bud right from the start, let bygones be bygones, given us a slap on the wrist via a PM, etc etc, but no, they wanted to make a mountain out of a mole hill out of it. And for what? What is any of this actually going to achieve now?
I don't dis like you mart lets just get that clear. There's times that you have annoyed me and I suspect I have done the same for you :laugh:. I also think both sides of this argument could of dealt with this better and got it sorted a lot sooner I don't accept it's the commitee making a mountain out of a mole hill if the source of the leak was disclosed weeks ago then this would of been long over with it damages the commitee but more importantly it damages the club.
andybond
27-01-2014, 17:32
hacked
Chris.
I have said this to a few people now.
It wasn't hacked. Hacking means a security exploit , or accessing something via a vulnerability. It wasn't that. The boards are vulnerable to several exploits as documented on the web. I haven't checked ( and as far as I know no one else has ) to see if they have been implemented. There are a few give aways to the exploits so you would notice. ( one isnt someone distributing the CM thread btw ;) )
I know that the information you are wanting wont be given up. I also know that if the information was given up , you wouldn't gain anything from it. The criteria for the restrictions have also changed as time has gone on.
All that this is proving at the minute are the things that keep going around in other threads about transparency, name calling and closed doors.
Its frustrating enough trying to reason sometimes , then coming back and a CM has closed the thread. So a new one is created and repeat.
Something needs to change. Quickly. I know an equal number on both sides. If I were king of the hill , I would look at a cease fire from both sides. Sit down and talk ( behind closed doors or PM ) and work through things. Miller , I am looking at you here.
Its frustrating ( to both sides ! ) that issues are not resolved and things cannot be let go.
Big Steve - Raider
27-01-2014, 17:33
if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?
Case in point...
Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite
Hold on. It was only today (Alex's thread) that Steve & I finally found out what it was that the Committee wanted from us.
At no point did any of you contact us before then explaining what the score is, and how this was to be resolved.
I've already, repeatedly, said I don't know who it was. So are you gonna ban me on the basis of not knowing who the person in question was/is? Utter madness.
I know I'm regularly ignored on here, but feck me, this is a whole new level!
Chris.
I have said this to a few people now.
It wasn't hacked. Hacking means a security exploit , or accessing something via a vulnerability. It wasn't that. The boards are vulnerable to several exploits as documented on the web. I haven't checked ( and as far as I know no one else has ) to see if they have been implemented. There are a few give aways to the exploits so you would notice. ( one isnt someone distributing the CM thread btw ;) )
I know that the information you are wanting wont be given up. I also know that if the information was given up , you wouldn't gain anything from it. The criteria for the restrictions have also changed as time has gone on.
All that this is proving at the minute are the things that keep going around in other threads about transparency, name calling and closed doors.
Its frustrating enough trying to reason sometimes , then coming back and a CM has closed the thread. So a new one is created and repeat.
Something needs to change. Quickly. I know an equal number on both sides. If I were king of the hill , I would look at a cease fire from both sides. Sit down and talk ( behind closed doors or PM ) and work through things. Miller , I am looking at you here.
Its frustrating ( to both sides ! ) that issues are not resolved and things cannot be let go.
I see what your saying the trouble is you would think if it wasn't one of the 2 lads then someone would be brave enough to admit to it rather than letting the other 2 take the wrap . Your right this is going round in circles and for both sides it's a crap situation but neither side wants to feel as tho they have given in/ lost. Hell I would even settle for how it was done ex commitee member with access still? and what was copied .and then for me it's over with. I have learnt my lesson even tho it's a so called private board it doesn't mean that's the case. And if it wasn't for my personal thread I wouldn't care
Adey aka Ewok
27-01-2014, 17:46
Hell I would even settle for how it was done ex commitee member with access still? and what was copied .and then for me it's over with.
thing is that's you, are you talking as a speaker for the committee or is it still there decision if information was to come forward?
Case in point...
That's called retaliation Steve. You have gone above and beyond with some of the comments you have made on Facebook compared to what was said in the commitee thread .So please stop making out your a victim and hold your hands up as well. We have all done and said things that haven't helped the situation
thing is that's you, are you talking as a speaker for the committee or is it still there decision if information was to come forward?
That's me and my personal feelings. But I could ask the rest of the commitee if that was good enough to get this sorted ?
Adey aka Ewok
27-01-2014, 17:52
That's me and my personal feelings. But I could ask the rest of the commitee if that was good enough to get this sorted ?
oh no im not asking that because i know something, just more into the workings of the cm. you would be happy, the powers at be wouldnt
Big Steve - Raider
27-01-2014, 17:56
...the powers at be wouldn't
The CRUX of the issue...
oh no im not asking that because i know something, just more into the workings of the cm. you would be happy, the powers at be wouldnt
That may be the case. This has dragged on long enough that if we could just get this sorted quicker then I honestly think that would be the best outcome. But the commitee makes decisions as a group so I can't promise anything
Adey aka Ewok
27-01-2014, 18:04
so whats the answer? there have been posts from cm's saying they would like to know, but how do the committee as a whole want to go about getting it resolved?
It was all outlined in Commitees post to the two lads adey. But as to how we get this resolved quickly and both sides can move on I don't know
As a complete neutral I see it like this:- In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you prove your innocence. With this in mind it is quite unreasonable to ask the accused to prove their innocence.
Unless I have missed something then the whole case regarding Mart and Steve is circumstantial. Unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that they "hacked" the private boards or it can be proved that they know who did it then the benefit of the doubt must go to the accused. This is how our free world works and I personally believe that this should be followed.
It appears to me that people are letting personal feelings towards each other get in the way. Please take a step back and look at the hard facts and evidence. As always there may be something that I am not aware of or have missed, if so then please accept my apologies. I am just offering a point of view that I have gained by what has been written in past and previous threads.
As a complete neutral I see it like this:- In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you prove your innocence. With this in mind it is quite unreasonable to ask the accused to prove their innocence.
Unless I have missed something then the whole case regarding Mart and Steve is circumstantial. Unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that they "hacked" the private boards or it can be proved that they know who did it then the benefit of the doubt must go to the accused. This is how our free world works and I personally believe that this should be followed.
It appears to me that people are letting personal feelings towards each other get in the way. Please take a step back and look at the hard facts and evidence. As always there may be something that I am not aware of or have missed, if so then please accept my apologies. I am just offering a point of view that I have gained by what has been written in past and previous threads.
:agree: well said.
Time the committee grew a pair and made a decision & stop dragging it out. I'm pretty sure I speak for the majority that this has gone on for long enough.
Ban them or reinstate them, it's not a difficult decision FFS.
Right, the way I see it, a thread pops up in the CM boards & a few names are mentioned, thread gets put in public, those people get the arse (& rightly so) & pull threads (wrongly) yadda yadda, committee have a bit of a knee jerk reaction as alot goes on in a few hours, which in hindsight you have to say, may have been orchestrated or it was just one of those times the timing just made everything fall in place at once which made it 'look' suspicious.
Whichever way you look at it, it has been allowed to go to far, Steve, dragging it up every opportunity has not, IMO, helped you at all.
The thread that started on the commitee boards that got copied was in response to a lot of stuff written on Facebook Matt and we could go round in circles all day because if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?
Chris I would just accept apologys for the comments mate , it's just a poor show that you are doing all the talking for the committee ,the committee members with the issues need to sort this out ,it's wrong mate like adey said it's you doing all the talking all time the chairman should ring Steve and mart or contact via email directly , why drag it out on the boards , it's the committee destroying this club in my eyes and most members will be argeeing with me .
andybond
27-01-2014, 18:34
Whichever way you look at it, it has been allowed to go to far, Steve, dragging it up every opportunity has not, IMO, helped you at all.
Its not like he could PM anyone about it Steve :p
The lad is stuck in limbo here really. If it were me and I hadnt heard anything I would be bringing it up too ...
Red October
27-01-2014, 19:31
Whats going on on Facebook is cringeworthy to be honest.
Its making the members look like antisocial idiots.
Its making the club look like antisocial idiots.
All involved should take a long hard look in the mirror and decide their mental ages, peoples respect for the club and eachother is getting pi$$ed all over and is affecting the whole scene for the worse.
I understand peolple are pi$$ed at each other but its bringing the whole renault turbo scene into disrepute irrespective whether or not your pro RTOC or RTOF.
Sort it in private or sort it NOW, dont prolong the agony, like a divorce just make sure you look after the kids :agree:
If we had PM access, I'm fairly sure this would've been sorted privately. However, we haven't, threads keep getting locked before we can reply, and no-one from the Committee has been in direct contact to us about it all.
That kinda limits our options.
Edit. And as I also posted above, it is they that made the mountain out of a mole hill, not us.
Big Steve - Raider
27-01-2014, 19:45
If we had PM access, I'm fairly sure this would've been sorted privately. However, we haven't, threads keep getting locked before we can reply, and no-one from the Committee has been in direct contact to us about it all.
That kinda limits our options.
Ok, so I've killed off the RTOC FB thread. Next move is the Committee's.
Red October
27-01-2014, 19:59
If we had PM access, I'm fairly sure this would've been sorted privately. However, we haven't, threads keep getting locked before we can reply, and no-one from the Committee has been in direct contact to us about it all.
That kinda limits our options.
Mart ive never met you and from what ive been told you have been a fantastic member and enthusiast for many many years which no one can take away. I understand your point 110%.
You've got to ask youself whether or not you want to continue or champion another thats how I'd feel.
This owning up issue will never happen and the situation will never cease.
Its decision time for all pal including the CM imo because the magnanimous man/men would see its hurting everything we all stand for Renault Turbo's :(
I have to speak up here too,
I have been a member since 1998 so I have seen a fair amount on here, always been a decent "grown up" site...
what I have seen on the boards for the last few weeks is utter sh1te and really needs to be sorted , in private, calls or PM's ...
NO ONE is guilty until proven otherwise or we run into a dictatorship, if thats the case then what the hell has gone wrong..???
IF someone has talked crap about someone else, private or not, expect the back lash in some form or another, talk sh1t about an ex wife and expect your car to be smashed up,
talk sh1t about a member behind their back and expect the consequences or man/woman up and say "sorry" , Like grown up's do...
I am only guessing on here but something has been said behind closed doors, for whatever reason have been opened... get over it, nothing is ever going to be secure because as long as 1 other person reads something then it has a possibility of being leaked..
don't want someone to know?????, then DON"T feckin say/type it in the first place....
Sorry to sound like Dad but someone , maybe more need a good slap around the ear and sending to bed to early, this is way beyond the naughty step now...
GROW UP.
rs250nut
27-01-2014, 20:25
I think you all need to wind your necks in, no offence but this has gone on long enough. This talk of no one wants to back down, what becuase you dont want to mug yourselves off? Piss poor imo, No one is bigger than the club but it seems you guys are trying to look after your own egos, like I said in the other thread you guys are acting like children and doing nothing but long term damage to the club, well done.
right WOW i asks a few little questions.......
but for ONCE can we hear from the chairman... i.e. all you other CM members - shut the &^%$ up
or do we not have one any more?????
tbh the only person who i've really seen try and calm things down are Ashy and Alex, others I've had pm's from 'newer' members and 'new' CM members asking me why do I keep sticking my nose in and why don't I stand up and help....
to answer that, I did in the past and once burnt.......
SO..... lets have a statement from our Chairperson stating whats going on, these are the facts, if not, Its time to put a new structure/team in place as its obvious to me that a few people on the committee are now running the club for their own gains/aims and the Chairperson has lost control of the club.
not much to ask is it.....So I now await to be banned....
its obvious to me that a few people on the committee are now running the club for their own gains/aims
Who are you talking about Moggy? And what do you think they hope to gain?
Moggy, so what are your questions? I agree with most of what you seem to mean, it needs someone who is seen to be "untainted" by all this to step in and make a few decisions but that will only work if everyone accepts those and I guess as he has been absent that is Miller.
Also have to agree with Ashy though, wooly phrases like the above don't actually mean anything and just stir the sh*t some more.
Ashy: who knows, but it seems a few are very quick to defend themselves. perhaps that just the way I see people..... what do they hope to gain; who knows, as they won't get a lot off here will they!!!!!
Hoolio; there are no questions, all I know is... if whatshisface who runs the country was never seen or never heard of, I know I wouldn't take much notice of any of his 'whatever you call it' people that help him run the country......
and its not to stir the shit as you put it.... i've been around here long enough and banned enough times to ask the right questions to get me banned! that wasn't one of them
its plain and simple.... If we have a chairperson, they should be the one telling us what is happening, and perhaps controlling certain committee members who seem to take everything so personally????
lets face it.... posts have been seen. perhaps just titles, maybe more. personally I couldn't care, but if people in there have been slagging people who can't see if off for whatever reason, they should be man enough or woman enough to stand up and say it to their face....
In my eyes the CM boards should be for discussion of accounts, and whats happening with events/website matters/problems, not somewhere for a select few to sit and throw stones on the minions below, perhaps that should be policed/moderated more than the 'normal' boards?
just a thought
Ashy: who knows, but it seems a few are very quick to defend themselves. perhaps that just the way I see people..... what do they hope to gain; who knows, as they won't get a lot off here will they!!!!!
Hoolio; there are no questions, all I know is... if whatshisface who runs the country was never seen or never heard of, I know I wouldn't take much notice of any of his 'whatever you call it' people that help him run the country......
and its not to stir the shit as you put it.... i've been around here long enough and banned enough times to ask the right questions to get me banned! that wasn't one of them
its plain and simple.... If we have a chairperson, they should be the one telling us what is happening, and perhaps controlling certain committee members who seem to take everything so personally????
lets face it.... posts have been seen. perhaps just titles, maybe more. personally I couldn't care, but if people in there have been slagging people who can't see if off for whatever reason, they should be man enough or woman enough to stand up and say it to their face....
In my eyes the CM boards should be for discussion of accounts, and whats happening with events/website matters/problems, not somewhere for a select few to sit and throw stones on the minions below, perhaps that should be policed/moderated more than the 'normal' boards?
just a thought
Are you referring to me moggy taking things personally? And the commitee boards aren't used to slag people off mate.
And the commitee boards aren't used to slag people off mate.
:coffee: I must've missed Miller's PM then...
it wasn't mate... but if you think it was aimed at you, your mistaken
and I've been sent enough posts, over MANY years off that side of the site mate.... and I know it to be true....... hey most of it was about me back in the day... shame the site crashed as i'm sure if you went back about 13-14 years... you'd find out how much most of us did for this site and got it thrown back in our faces..... :coffee:
perhaps you should run along, I'm hear all week.... try the fish
Ok mate thanks for reply. :)
and I've been sent enough posts, over MANY years off that side of the site mate.... and I know it to be true.......
There wasn't a CM board on the old site :confused:
oh thats a shame... I wonder where the pages of posts about banning me was hidden then.....
anyway - as per usual, this isn't about me.... this is about having a club run properly and fairly....
if this was in any other 'hobby' world.... and people actually had a little more interest, instead of 'breaking away' you could of had a vote of no confidence.... so I'm quite glad they broke away.... less mess to clear up. Although I now expect the rules to be changes yet again.
Guybrush
28-01-2014, 09:17
There wasn't a CM board on the old site :confused:
yeah there was. before vbulletin we had the dtdigital site which i maintained.
i coded the committee boards on that site.
Chairman ???
Shouldn't he be running the club and taking control of the committee and the members yet another massive thread about this and he's not commented yet ??
What's happening Chris ?
We know you are busy with your house ,but the club is a mess at the moment and it's been long enough again with this subject and an apology needs to be made about offensive comments etc and the club sorting ,so we can all get stuck in with are renault turbos
No apology needs making from me for offensive comments!
• I was reacting with a small comment to offence already given.
• In a private conversation about the contribution some people would have toward the rival club website.
• It was in a thread I started where I said I was resigning as I was so utterly repelled by some peoples behaviour and comments toward the efforts made by myself and others, and the last straw of a threat of another rival club being started, which then was started, for what appeared as a petty demonstration against a rebuttal I made previously against other previous offensive slagging off that I and other organisers of the FCS RTOC day had received.
There appeared to be a very small group of people actively working against the good of this club of 500 or so people, just because they were annoyed at have been strongly chastised for making comments that I and others found unacceptable.
I'm not sure that we've received any apologies for any of that or other slagging off. I'm not sure I care now.
There are people in this club who see, and work for and toward, the bigger picture and other people who appear to only see their own needs and those of their immediate circle of acquaintances.
Regarding the nonsense with the title of club chairman. This committee structure from the outset never had a king, dominar, all powerful super being, call the role what you want, Miller was never 'in charge' of the committee or the club. Just one of the management team with specific tasks, same rank as the other members of the team. The mistake was to use the title chairman as we didn't realise there were so many people that 'need' to look up to someone in charge and appear to not be able to comprehend there not being a overall parent figure. I don't think that way, but evidently a lot of people do.
Miller created the 'sin bin' as an alternative to banning which was the prevailing feeling at the time of an apparent concerted effort to damage this club / unseat some of all of the committee / or whatever the motive. There was no intelligent conversation taking place between the groups, in fact all the RTOC committee were banned from the rival website. What else were we to do here to protect this club and its interests and intellectual property other than ban or restrict the main protagonists of the rival club.
My feeling is that before we progress with this restricted members situation the RTOC should have an assurance to the RTOC membership from those concerned that they will make no further attempt to undermine or damage this club, or it's interests.
I feel the club should have an answer as to who filched the thread and what other threads were copied and distributed if any.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 18:36
It's all so childish, I said this because he said that, so silly.
If anything I have said has caused offence to anyone please contact me via pm or call me like an adult and I can discuss the matter and apologise if it is needed. Though I'm not actually sure I've said anything or bitched about anyone directly?
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 18:45
And now you've updated your post. Am I included in this group you speak of as the creator of the site? If u want to actually talk about it pm or call me
Adey, I'm listing the set of situations that caused this current predicament.
Didn't you already say that you didn't intend to have any damaging effect on RTOC? I seem to recall that.
The committee accepted what you said and reinstated you. It's a shame you didn't think of a PM to any of us at the time of setting up the RTOF to say something like. 'don't worry, not trying to cause any problems, just trying it out', or whatever.
But there are now questions remaining and demands being made of the committee and perhaps blame apportioned to them, so I'm attempting to clarify a few things that some people are not aware of.
It's a shame that there weren't simple clarifications at the time of the RTOF and actions taken on it's behalf, from the various people involved in what has been said since to be an unfortunate timing of certain events.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 18:58
There was no intelligent conversation taking place between the groups, in fact all the RTOC committee were banned from the rival website. What else were we to do here to protect this club and its interests and intellectual property other than ban or restrict the main protagonists of the rival club.
This was hard to do, considering no one was talking and all attempts to discuss anything were removed or locked down. This is an issue for here, not another site. blocking people was a knee jerk reaction to having my paid for services removed here, there membership was reinstated long before mine was. But again this is a discussion about rtoc, member access on another site has nothing to do with this discussion.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 19:03
Adey, I'm listing the set of situations that caused this current predicament.
The committee accepted what you said and reinstated you. It's a shame you didn't think of a PM to any of us at the time of setting up the RTOF to say something like. 'don't worry, not trying to cause any problems, just trying it out', or whatever.
I shouldn't need to but i can see you point and yes maybe in hindsight i should of. In return if you were worried any one of the committee could of contacted me to ask?
It's a shame that there weren't simple clarifications at the time of the RTOF and actions taken on it's behalf, from the various people involved in what has been said since to be an unfortunate timing of certain events.
No actions have been taken on my behalf but yes maybe for rtof. Again clarification could of been sorted along time ago with simple communication, to get my point across or speak to anyone directly took a committee member responding to me directly via fb, not rtoc and nearly 2 weeks later, where he then told me he thought i had already been contacted. no need to go round in circles over it, everyone needs to learn from it. Communication is the key:agree:
andybond
28-01-2014, 19:04
Regarding the nonsense with the title of club chairman. This committee structure from the outset never had a king, dominar, all powerful super being, call the role what you want, Miller was never 'in charge' of the committee or the club. Just one of the management team with specific tasks, same rank as the other members of the team. The mistake was to use the title chairman as we didn't realise there were so many people that 'need' to look up to someone in charge and appear to not be able to comprehend there not being a overall parent figure. I don't think that way, but evidently a lot of people do.
Hello Ian ,
The wording in the club section seems a little ambiguous in its reading. Lines such as
will oversee all aspects of the club
and
They will act as a figurehead of the club
although I appreciate there is a part stating that they have no controlling power as an individual .
I think the use of the title Chairman might need to be adjusted to if its causing issue ?
I feel the club should have an answer as to who filched the thread and what other threads were copied and distributed if any.
What do you hope to achieve from this ? What specifically will you gain ? By your own admission the data has little value.
I am not trying to be troublesome here , far from it. The ship is sinking Ian , we need to start putting things like this behind , adapt and grown.
Plenty was being said of FB though. A lot of it making the situation worse.
Hi Andy,
wording in the club section seems a little ambiguous
will oversee all aspects of the club
They will act as a figurehead of the club
although I appreciate there is a part stating that they have no controlling power as an individual.
I think the use of the title Chairman might need to be adjusted to if its causing issue? IIRC, it was 7 years ago!, by figure head we meant representation at events and to outside organisations. 'Oversee all aspects' proved to be a bit optimistic and anyway that's more or less what I was doing for the next year or two. Yes we've been mumbling about deleting the word 'chairman' for some time.
who filched the thread
What do you hope to achieve from this ? What specifically will you gain ?It's a security breach. It is still happening, might it happen again? It's a trust issue. There's a person that perhaps should not have that position of trust in the future. If it's too much for accomplices to dob in the one, then why not just put their hands up and admit it, like someone else was sensible enough to with another matter.
The ship is sinking Ian , we need to start putting things like this behind , adapt and grown.I don't think it is sinking. Why is it sinking? Events are being booked, people are joining, the FB areas are growing, the shop is selling stuff, there are new RTOC helpers and more offering help. Membership will be up quite a bit once the 'freeloaders' pay up :)
Yes, there were alot of 'keyboard warriors' on facebook... who aren't so rude on here.. hmmm.
I can understand wanting to know where the 'breech of trust' came from.. just so it didn't happen again.. but i think we all know where it came from & it won't happen again as they won't be in a position of trust again. Simples.
I think we ALL need to move on from here, a lot of damage has been done to RTOC over the last month that will take a long time to sort out.
andybond
28-01-2014, 19:26
eeek
Hang on a second. Who edited my post ? I did not leave it in this mess.
It was obviously me when I copied the whole thing to make my quotes within quotes reply. Sorry I left it untidy:)
Its ok , Ill let you off this once. DaveL485 wouldnt forgive you this easy though.
If you want to multipart quote its easiest to just hit the quote button on the bottom right and start inserting your own quote bits. Every set of quotes has to be paired.
You will note when you quote at the very top you can see a [ QUOTE= somename;some number ]
I have had to space mine out a little , or it will turn into a quote.
Scrap the number and the preceeding ; you dont need them
copy it , wrap it just around the bits you want to quote and use a [ /quote ] to finish the quote off. You can then make your own snippets up without having to edit others and leave them a mess. Some of use server geeks are very finicky about our paginations.
you didnt write this but Andy is quoting it
andybond
28-01-2014, 19:32
Yes, there were alot of 'keyboard warriors' on facebook... who aren't so rude on here.. hmmm.
Dont pussyfoot Steve. Name names..
Lowiepete
28-01-2014, 19:48
...and the point of this thread is? What I really mean is, where is it leading, positively?
As for the club not needing "a figurehead" or Chairman, I strongly disagree! If ever there
was a time when some strong "leadership" was needed, it is right now. If ever this club
was rudderless, then I don't think it could be more apparent that it is now. :dearme:
Regards,
Steve
andybond
28-01-2014, 19:49
...and the point of this thread is? What I really mean is, where is it leading, positively?
As for the club not needing "a figurehead" or Chairman, I strongly disagree! If ever there
was a time when some strong "leadership" was needed, it is right now. If ever this club
was rudderless, then I don't think it could be more apparent that it is now. :dearme:
Regards,
Steve
:agree:
The post got deleted on facebook so my 'proof' is gone Andy, therefor unfair to name anyone. ;)
But it wasn't you.. or Dave..
:agree::agree:
...and the point of this thread is? What I really mean is, where is it leading, positively?
As for the club not needing "a figurehead" or Chairman, I strongly disagree! If ever there
was a time when some strong "leadership" was needed, it is right now. If ever this club
was rudderless, then I don't think it could be more apparent that it is now. :dearme:
Regards,
Steve
...and the point of this thread is? What I really mean is, where is it leading, positively?
As for the club not needing "a figurehead" or Chairman, I strongly disagree! If ever there
was a time when some strong "leadership" was needed, it is right now. If ever this club
was rudderless, then I don't think it could be more apparent that it is now. :dearme:
Regards,
Steve
Thank you Steve... at last
so lets hear it from the Chairman.... if we don't have one.... lets get it sorted NOW
Ian i see what you're saying but you're as bad as the others now for going in circles
until Miller posts and stamps his foot thats all is going to keep happening
or If the club decide we don't need a chairperson.... well....
For what my opinion is worth, I feel that it's very important to have a Chairperson in charge of a club or organisation. Every single organisation has one...a Tesco branch has a store manager, a school has a Headteacher, a country a President, a football club a chairman, a ship a captain etc etc.
Sometimes, the person elected to be the figurehead has to make a final decision on a situation. It's just the way things are, if you have a group of people all trying to steer a ship in different directions it could spell disaster.
I would feel far more confident as a paid member of a club that had a final decision maker when things got tough!
andybond
28-01-2014, 20:24
For what my opinion is worth, I feel that it's very important to have a Chairperson in charge of a club or organisation. Every single organisation has one...a Tesco branch has a store manager, a school has a Headteacher, a country a President, a football club a chairman, a ship a captain etc etc.
Sometimes, the person elected to be the figurehead has to make a final decision on a situation. It's just the way things are, if you have a group of people all trying to steer a ship in different directions it could spell disaster.
I would feel far more confident as a paid member of a club that had a final decision maker when things got tough!
:agree:
For what my opinion is worth, I feel that it's very important to have a Chairperson in charge of a club or organisation. Every single organisation has one...a Tesco branch has a store manager, a school has a Headteacher, a country a President, a football club a chairman, a ship a captain etc etc.
Sometimes, the person elected to be the figurehead has to make a final decision on a situation. It's just the way things are, if you have a group of people all trying to steer a ship in different directions it could spell disaster.
I would feel far more confident as a paid member of a club that had a final decision maker when things got tough!
All decisions are voted for so no one person can run the club. With voting on things it keeps it fair. And a broad spectrum of opinions everyone on the commitee is from different walks of life. Of course it would be nice if miller could be more involved but he isn't the club can easily run without him until he can come back.
All decisions are voted for so no one person can run the club. With voting on things it keeps it fair. And a broad spectrum of opinions everyone on the commitee is from different walks of life. Of course it would be nice if miller could be more involved but he isn't the club can easily run without him until he can come back.
But It shouldn't be like that Chris. There should be an ACTIVE chairperson. If Miller can't fulfill his role he should give it up & someone else should be voted in.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 20:55
Of course it would be nice if miller could be more involved but he isn't the club can easily run without him until he can come back.
(please dont shoot me down as trying to bump off the committee) If thats the case why is there a need for him? if the club can run without him why is he there?
On the other side i do think we need a leader as such, a chairman, but an active one. Every other position in the club necessitates you to be available to work and be active, is it not the same for the chairman position?
Guybrush
28-01-2014, 20:56
On the other side i do think we need a leader as such, a chairman, but an active one. Every other position in the club necessitates you to be available to work and be active, is it not the same for the chairman position?
Ian has been doing this for years.
But It shouldn't be like that Chris. There should be an ACTIVE chairperson. If Miller can't fulfill his role he should give it up & someone else should be voted in.
And what would change if there was a chairperson? Would you prefer to have all decisions made by one person or would they still be voted for? If so then it's just another vote. If people need a chairperson to be on there back to do there role then they shouldn't be doing there role is my belief. But of course that is just my opinion and I also think that chris miller is very good when he is involved:)
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 21:00
Ian has been doing this for years.
if thats the case then there is no need for miller and Ian becomes chairman, if he doesnt want it then it should be put out to the member for vote.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 21:02
Maybe the answer is not to have a description of the club roles written by the cm alone, maybe input from the members is needed, that way anyone who takes up a role knows what the club as a majority want from them?
Guybrush
28-01-2014, 21:04
if thats the case then there is no need for miller and Ian becomes chairman, if he doesnt want it then it should be put out to the member for vote.
Even if adding Chairman to his job title makes no difference to how the committee works?
Or are you saying we need a dictator a la Bruce?
(please dont shoot me down as trying to bump off the committee) If thats the case why is there a need for him? if the club can run without him why is he there?
On the other side i do think we need a leader as such, a chairman, but an active one. Every other position in the club necessitates you to be available to work and be active, is it not the same for the chairman position?
I think it's only good thing when we discuss different ideas mate it's arguing that does everyone's head in? Ian has been seen as the leader of the club when miller is away but he always discuss's things with everyone on the committee and we vote and so on. In an ideal world then miller would be involved on an day to day basis. But I don't think it's for leadership but his experience and his passion for the club
Even if adding Chairman to his job title makes no difference to how the committee works?
Or are you saying we need a dictator a la Bruce?
No, the committee needs to be like a board with a chair, everyone has equal voting rights but the chair is empowered by the cm to enact those decisions and be seem as the figurehead.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 21:15
:agree:
No, the committee needs to be like a board with a chair, everyone has equal voting rights but the chair is empowered by the cm to enact those decisions and be seem as the figurehead.
Adey aka Ewok
28-01-2014, 21:20
No, the committee needs to be like a board with a chair, everyone has equal voting rights but the chair is empowered by the cm to enact those decisions and be seem as the figurehead.
this comment takes me back to
Maybe the answer is not to have a description of the club roles written by the cm alone, maybe input from the members is needed, that way anyone who takes up a role knows what the club as a majority want from them?
Should it not be seriously looked at? inline with what the cm have written to be the roles the members should have an input of what they want from the people in said positions?
No, the committee needs to be like a board with a chair, everyone has equal voting rights but the chair is empowered by the cm to enact those decisions and be seem as the figurehead.
:agree:
I think the committee just needs to be re arranged if I can word it like that votes etc on how's it's done ,miller / chairman name needs to be removed or name changed ,if we need one or not ,just have a committee that's it maybe , let the members decide on vote ,
Lowiepete
28-01-2014, 21:49
And what would change if there was a chairperson? Would you prefer to have all decisions made by one person or would they still be voted for?
I think the key word here is - leadership
Regards,
Steve
I think the key word here is - leadership
Regards,
Steve
As said steve ian has and is seen as the leader by the committee when miller isnt around unfortunately for ian he hasnt put himself forward for it thats just the way things are. And as said every decision is voted on we all have our own jobs that we get on with any help we need and we put a post up on the committee boards. I cant see why that Iis a problem it works:)
Big Steve - Raider
28-01-2014, 22:56
As said steve ian has and is seen as the leader by the committee when miller isn't around....
****RTOC Future Prediction****
January 15th 2064 - General Chat
It is with deepest sympathy that we must announce the Ian Simpson has stepped down from the Committee of the RTOC
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/BigSteveT/image.jpg (http://s306.photobucket.com/user/BigSteveT/media/image.jpg.html)
What changes the game rules here, compared to, eg, an office that has a weekly and monthly meeting, is that this an internet forum with an 'always on' committee meeting taking place 24 / 7 / 365.
Everything is always visible, all the stuff everyone is doing, plans, comments. It rolls on and on.
The job of the chairman of a board, during a meeting, is to direct the meeting, which progresses through a list in an order, following an etiquette. Then everyone goes away and communicates through a designated manager to report it all to a senior manager, which could be the board chairman. He is then, through a chain of command, also the organiser of activities away from the meetings.
This is superfluous for the way RTOC works.
Apart from events, where a report should be made to the committee from the event organiser and then made available for the members who were not there.
I recently added to the list of jobs thread, that the committee could do with a designated spokesperson to report stuff to the members.
Perhaps the people that advocate a leader could list here what the leader should do exactly, beyond what is done by other committee members.
Lowiepete
28-01-2014, 23:30
...an internet forum with an 'always on' committee meeting taking place 24 / 7 / 365. Everything is always visible, all the stuff everyone is doing, plans, comments. It rolls on and on.
So, if I read this correctly, this is a description of either a lack of structure, or lack of any
adherence to an existing structure. It can hardly be surprising that so many allegations
(real or otherwise) are being levelled against this by all and sundry. There is clearly an
unease that needs to be addressed.
The job of the chairman of a board, during a meeting, is to direct the meeting... etc, etc.
In other words sets the agenda (either directly mandated by the membership at a
General Meeting or by responding to ongoing situations) and then follows that through
to fruition.
This is superfluous for the way RTOC works.
Really? If that's the way any committee member sees this, IMO there is something very
seriously wrong.
Perhaps the people that advocate a leader could list here what the leader should do exactly, beyond what is done by other committee members.
I'm only speaking as an observer, but what I'm seeing here is a Committee under seige.
Apparently, this isn't the first time it has happened. If that's the case, then the agenda
being set by the Chairman should be in settling this problem once and for all.
Regards,
Steve
youngscottie
29-01-2014, 10:02
enough is enough
every organization in the world that's worth its salt has a one man at the top
its time we done the same
ian I like you because your visible and say what you mean ( no sugar coatings)
I may not like what you have to say but at least I know where I stand with you
so take the bull by the horns and sort this mess out please
our club has become a mess and we need a strong leader to sort it out
having spent time in millers company hes a really nice guy
but as active as he may be on the cm boards its very much the case out of sight out of mind to the ordinary members
if these internal feuds cant be resolved soon I fear the rtoc may not survive
and the members will move on
can the last man out turn off the lights please:cry:
andybond
29-01-2014, 12:20
enough is enough
Enough is when the items are fixed that come up time and time again and people reinstated. Thats when enough is enough. And not a minute sooner.
We have some top suggestions on here from people outside the normal loops. It would be madness to discount their opinion. They are going to be the most unbiased one way or the other of anyone.
youngscottie
29-01-2014, 12:36
Enough is when the items are fixed that come up time and time again and people reinstated. Thats when enough is enough. And not a minute sooner.
We have some top suggestions on here from people outside the normal loops. It would be madness to discount their opinion. They are going to be the most unbiased one way or the other of anyone.
That's why I'd like someone to take charge and sort it
Or do we just have another selection of threads and no results or execution of ideas
There's no captain sailing the good ship rtoc through these stormy waters
Adey aka Ewok
29-01-2014, 12:49
:coffee:
Maybe the answer is not to have a description of the club roles written by the cm alone, maybe input from the members is needed, that way anyone who takes up a role knows what the club as a majority want from them?
what I'm seeing here is a Committee under seige.
Apparently, this isn't the first time it has happened.
Its not, I've been on here since 1998 and its happened ever since I can remember, regardless of the club being run by a committee or a leader (Rach H) or a Dictator (Bruce) there have always been a small number of very vocal members constantly voicing their opinions which can be seen as trying to undermine the leadership. Its grown worse as the internet has become more accessible. I don't think Miller being more active or another CM stepping into that role would make the slightest bit of difference.
Perhaps its just the way it is and we just need to accept it and move on. This is the best car club I've ever been involved in and I think that's due to the enthusiasm of its members. Unfortunately the love that the members have for their cars and the club sometimes gets misinterpreted and snowballs into situations like this one.
The whole mess is linked to ND being at FCS which clashed with Sangliers and its now snowballed to where we are today.
Threads popping up like this time and time again under different guises don't really help we just end up repeating the same things over and over and everyone gets sick of it.
Adey aka Ewok
29-01-2014, 13:14
Its not, I've been on here since 1998 and its happened ever since I can remember, regardless of the club being run by a committee or a leader (Rach H) or a Dictator (Bruce) there have always been a small number of very vocal members constantly voicing their opinions which can be seen as trying to undermine the leadership. Its grown worse as the internet has become more accessible. I don't think Miller being more active or another CM stepping into that role would make the slightest bit of difference.
Perhaps its just the way it is and we just need to accept it and move on. This is the best car club I've ever been involved in and I think that's due to the enthusiasm of its members. Unfortunately the love that the members have for their cars and the club sometimes gets misinterpreted and snowballs into situations like this one.
The whole mess is linked to ND being at FCS which clashed with Sangliers and its now snowballed to where we are today.
Threads popping up like this time and time again under different guises don't really help we just end up repeating the same things over and over and everyone gets sick of it.
I was always going to fcs, even tried to big it up to the other members.
If its always been like this ashy isnt it a sign that people want change. Not everyone is vocal so a fair few probably wouldnt speak up, but the same things come up and maybe it is time to re evolve the club yet again. Maybe a simple vote asking if change is needed or should it stay the same. That way a view of what the club want will be seen rather than taking it as a select vocal fews opinion. Im not trying to undermine anyone in authority, i think most people who do or say anything on here are trying to do it for the good of the club. You all do a great job but people are voicing an opinion and it should be taken on board shouldnt it?
The same things come up over and over again, and people say they want change. For what the roles are within the club, there is only really Ian which has kept a position, all the rest have either been created to get people to do some jobs or changed hands or currently nobody assigned. When the time comes to actually put that change together, nobody is willing to put themselves forward apart from the people who have now got the roles.
Adey aka Ewok
29-01-2014, 13:32
i cant speak on behalf of the other members to that dale but i have myself offered help a few times over.
i cant speak on behalf of the other members to that dale but i have myself offered help a few times over.
Believe it was the car shows and updating of the front page?
They are trying to resolve this issue where you need full access to things to change just the front page, as far as I am away on this site. But that is in the process of being looked into. As can agree that the front page could do with a boost of activity, not that I look at that much as I go straight to forum page.
Adey aka Ewok
29-01-2014, 13:37
ive since applied for the role of SAR? i would of thought that would be up in the committee boards somewhere? If something needs doing the committee need to ask the members for help.
Ahh forgot about that one, was trying to remember off the top of my head. But yes you have applied plus about 2 others so far.
Incidentally, when is the closing date for applications for the SAR role? If that were made clear in the application thread it would be useful. That way those who applied have manageable expectations.
Edit - will ask the question in that thread.
Slammed 66
29-01-2014, 14:24
'Change'
The buzzword of the moment.
Change this, change that, add new features here, improve layout there etc etc
End scenario: things may well be improved but the same people with nothing better to do than moan, will continue to find fault elsewhere :crap:
I think Andy Bond summed it up perfectly when he posted this picture weeks ago
http://global3.memecdn.com/woman_o_914998.jpg
I'm sick of the bickering and BS from the last few months. I just hope that sooner rather than later we can get back to what matters and rediscover the club spirit that's missing now.
Whether everyone populates this forum or any other, if you have the same people then sooner or later you're going to have the same issues.
Here endeth the mumblings of a melancholy Wednesday afternoon :scared:
The whole mess is linked to ND being at FCS which clashed with Sangliers and its now snowballed to where we are today.
That didn't help matters, but the main reason this all kicked off was due to the slating a few of us received from CM's in 'that' thread.
Guybrush
29-01-2014, 14:31
That didn't help matters, but the main reason this all kicked off was due to the slating a few of us received from CM's in 'that' thread.
http://inayatscorner.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/the-whistle-blower.jpg
andybond
29-01-2014, 16:16
That didn't help matters, but the main reason this all kicked off was due to the incorrect allegations and assumptions that a few of us received from CM's in 'that' thread. Which hasnt been resolved yet but this issue is masking it.
Changed that for you Mart.
As a complete neutral I see it like this:- In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you prove your innocence. With this in mind it is quite unreasonable to ask the accused to prove their innocence.
Unless I have missed something then the whole case regarding Mart and Steve is circumstantial. Unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that they "hacked" the private boards or it can be proved that they know who did it then the benefit of the doubt must go to the accused. This is how our free world works and I personally believe that this should be followed.
It appears to me that people are letting personal feelings towards each other get in the way. Please take a step back and look at the hard facts and evidence. As always there may be something that I am not aware of or have missed, if so then please accept my apologies. I am just offering a point of view that I have gained by what has been written in past and previous threads.
I revert back to my previous post, this can be resolved in a matter of minutes! This will be the most contentious issue out of the way thus leaving the club to get back to normal. This will all be forgotten about in a month.
Guybrush
29-01-2014, 17:29
As a complete neutral I see it like this:- In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you prove your innocence. With this in mind it is quite unreasonable to ask the accused to prove their innocence.
Unless I have missed something then the whole case regarding Mart and Steve is circumstantial. Unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that they "hacked" the private boards or it can be proved that they know who did it then the benefit of the doubt must go to the accused. This is how our free world works and I personally believe that this should be followed.
It appears to me that people are letting personal feelings towards each other get in the way. Please take a step back and look at the hard facts and evidence. As always there may be something that I am not aware of or have missed, if so then please accept my apologies. I am just offering a point of view that I have gained by what has been written in past and previous threads.
You talk a lot of sense.
Fundamentally, Adey starts a similarly named forum, Mart removes the sangliers thread forcing people who want to go over to the new forum. Steve then further solicits the RTOC members via pm to get them over in the new forum.
'That' thread simply sprinkled sh1t on a bad situation.
There is no proof that Mart or Steve compromised the boards. I think it's quite reasonable to ask them to help tighten that loop. It has already been said that whoever leaked the information will not suffer any infraction points. If they're not forthcoming with information in order to restore their full member status then that's sad, but they should probably be restored to full member status for the reasons you mention.
My take on it is that there is no infraction category for anything to do with a conflict of interest. There probably should be.
That said, I think the committee need to make some positive change to eliminate the committee-member divide. The committee are just members like everyone else, not folks sat on top of an ivory tower.
One thing i do know is if half the flack the committee get, happened in the other car club i'm a member of, those members coming out with the insults would be banned immediately (not dragging it out for weeks/months like for DaveL485), most members would have the common sense and good grace not to act that way.
Lowiepete
29-01-2014, 17:34
OK, so we have gone round in another circle...
Perhaps the people that advocate a leader could list here what the leader should do exactly, beyond what is done by other committee members.
The above brings us back on topic. I'm certain that I'm not the only one with constructive
answers to that question. Am I? :eek:
This thread, like a few predecessors, is bound to go awry unless it stays on topic, which
as I understand it, is a quest to resolve an issue, rather than perpetuate it. Right?
In any kind of organisation that relies solely on volunteers, the highest priority is that
those volunteers feel valued. My fear is that the present constitution more or less
legislates against that. My feeling is that the Committee should be separated from the
Officers, with the latter being appointees of the Committee.
With the Committee being separated, it becomes the Executive Committee, responsible
for the legal, financial and adminstrative functions of the club. EC members have a shelf
life, say 4 years. Officers stay in place for the duration. There should also be some
succession planning, especially for key positions.
EC meetings should last no more than an hour, with probably no more than 6 meetings
annually. That makes being an EC member much less arduous than has been described
previously. Voting at meetings should only be done by EC members, however, if the
Chairman feels that a wider vote would be more beneficial for the club, then it should
be in his gift to extend the vote to all attending members.
Officers will need to prepare structured reports for distribution at least a week ahead
of EC meetings. They should attend EC meetings and be free to participate in the
ensuing discussion. The Committee should _not_ second guess reports from Officers
and it will be up to the Chairman to keep clear control over that. Something about
barking yourself...
Day to day running of the Forum should be in the hands of a competent admin team,
the administrator of which reports to the EC - that role should be supported by one
of the ordinary EC members. It'll be the administrator who advertises vacancies for
people like moderators, and suitable candidate names will be EC confirmed based upon
the admin's recommendations. The method of how appointees are recommended should
be in a written policy document.
Organisation of Events and Area Groups should have a Co-ordinator, again being given
support by another of the ordinary EC members. The aims and methods should also be
published in a policy document.
Publicity, Recruitment & Retail should occupy the remaining EC member, supporting three
officers who do their respective admin functions. Ditto about policy documents.
What I'm describing is a simplification of roles and clear function for each. That way very
clear policy documents can be produced outlining what the club wants to achieve and
how it will support members in reaching club goals. With them being visible to everyone,
there should more opportunities for members to come forward to fulfil a particular
niche.
Everyone should be clear about their own part within the engine, with no-one wanting
to let their little bit bring it to a grinding halt. If that becomes a cherished aim for all
involved, it should make succession planning a whole lot easier! It should also stop any
sidelines carping and forum moderators should be strong in their policy toward this.
OK guys, there's some meat to chew over. I'm hoping that when I return to this thread
some of you will have picked it up and run with it. By the way, I'm not carping from the
sidelines here, I'd be happy to play a small part too, but it has to be aboard a much
happier ship than at present. The cars that we preserve are a significant part of British
motoring history and it is up to us to go forward. Can we do that?
Regards,
Steve
Committee members made offensive comments on there boards for no reason about members and have not said sorry that's the point ,and until apologys are made it's going to carry on IMO ,it's not rocking horse science is it
And why they made those offensive comments what ever was said was beyond me ??
Who ever made those comments has upset members ,
It's all a bit naughty IMO and none of this should of happened in the first place
andybond
29-01-2014, 18:01
DaveL
Two things.
1) It was DaveL485 , aka Sibley , not DaveL aka I dont know. Some scammer.
2) I think the hassle Dave gave out was proportional to the hassle he got from some CM members. It was easier to ban than carry on. In a similar way it is easier to carry on depriving the two lads what they paid for.
Guybrush
29-01-2014, 18:02
Committee members made offensive comments on there boards for no reason about members and have not said sorry that's the point ,and until apologys are made it's going to carry on IMO ,it's not rocking horse science is it
Am sure as a general rule you're right. I'm not sure if an apology is the whole point of the current goings-on.
And why they made those offensive comments what ever was said was beyond me ??
People don't tend to censor themselves as much behind closed doors.
andybond
29-01-2014, 18:03
People don't tend to censor themselves as much behind closed doors.
I was always told if you dont have anything nice to say about someone , dont say it at all.
Behind closed doors , or not.
Guybrush
29-01-2014, 18:05
Two things.
1) It was DaveL485 , aka Sibley , not DaveL aka I dont know. Some scammer.
2) I think the hassle Dave gave out was proportional to the hassle he got from some CM members. It was easier to ban than carry on. In a similar way it is easier to carry on depriving the two lads what they paid for.
1) Ok, DaveL485.
2) I PM'd Dave about his approach. He ignored my advice, a couple of weeks later he got banned. I'd have banned him sooner if i was on the committee.
I was always told if you dont have anything nice to say about someone , dont say it at all.
Behind closed doors , or not.
I agreee. And am sure any posts of mine in that thread weren't trash talking.
I'm just pointing out human behaviour. :)
Committee members made offensive comments on there boards for no reason about members and have not said sorry that's the point ,and until apologys are made it's going to carry on IMO ,it's not rocking horse science is it
And why they made those offensive comments what ever was said was beyond me ??
Who ever made those comments has upset members ,
It's all a bit naughty IMO and none of this should of happened in the first place
Matt you couldnt be more wrong mate this is the problem. People dont actually know what happened that thread was after the committee had taken a load of crap on facebook and then a the thread was stolen from the committee boards by someone who is so pathetic that they wont admit to it and they are being protected by big steve who says he knows who it is but wont say and mart who has said he doesn't know. Thats whats happend my personl thread was on the committee pages now maybe I have myself to blame for assuming the site was secure. But how would you react matt ?
andybond
29-01-2014, 18:09
1) Ok, DaveL485.
2) I PM'd Dave about his approach. He ignored my advice, a couple of weeks later he got banned. I'd have banned him sooner if i was on the committee.
Thanks for point 1. It might be a little thing , but they are two different people. the main crux of the issue was a confusion with DaveL and Davel485.
Perhaps with the torrent of abuse from some of the CMs as well there could have been mutual bans? It appears the rules aren't for all. Instead of banning people , or threatening them with the ban stick why not listen to the issues ? Try and resolve / address ?
I agreee. And am sure any posts of mine in that thread weren't trash talking.
I'm just pointing out human behaviour. :)
:agree:
Matt you couldnt be more wrong mate this is the problem. People dont actually know what happened that thread was after the committee had taken a load of crap on facebook and then a the thread was stolen from the committee boards by someone who is so pathetic that they wont admit to it and they are being protected by big steve who says he knows who it is but wont say and mart who has said he doesn't know. Thats whats happend my personl thread was on the committee pages now maybe I have myself to blame for assuming the site was secure. But how would you react matt ?
I sent u a pm mate
andybond
29-01-2014, 18:32
committee had taken a load of crap on facebook 7
Chris , which FB page?
and then a the thread was stolen
It wasnt ...
big steve who says he knows who it is but wont say
What do you hope to gain ? I have told many people on the CM that the boards werent hacked. I have told the same people it wont happen again.
my personl thread was on the committee pages
Which wasnt leaked so why mention ?
Adey aka Ewok
29-01-2014, 18:54
Matt you couldnt be more wrong mate this is the problem. People dont actually know what happened that thread was after the committee had taken a load of crap on facebook
was the crap on fb in question that started it all on the rtoc fb page?
Big Steve - Raider
29-01-2014, 19:25
So are Mart and I reinstated or banned for 6 months....?
SIMPLE AS THAT!?
The CM can hold me to ransom for the identity of the leak all they like, but I'm not a grass. :coffee:
Sorry, but the CM continue to not look "Dynamic" the longer they string this out......
Chris , which FB page?
It wasnt ...
What do you hope to gain ? I have told many people on the CM that the boards werent hacked. I have told the same people it wont happen again.
Which wasnt leaked so why mention ?
You are only going off what you were told Andy they would of had access to commitee page how do you know they weren't sat round going through every thread. So it's my problem and I will mention I take it serious so to you it's not a big deal to me it is that's the end of it. What I hope to gain is to find out how it was done and why. There's been loads on RTOC Facebook page I just saw screen shots of what was said. I really couldn't care less about the name calling and so on
was the crap on fb in question that started it all on the rtoc fb page?
We were sent screen shots of loads of Facebook comments adey. I don't have Facebook but my girlfriend has so it's not ideal so only go off what I am seen or shown :)
andybond
29-01-2014, 20:39
lots of things.
Chris,
Irrespective of what may or may not have been looked at the personal information was not leaked.
I believe that the stuff on FB was put on there as it was one of the only places that could not have threads locked. What was the point of starting a new thread , a CM commenting on it and then locking it ( I must add I dont think you have done this ) without a right to reply.
All in all , there are 3 people who are caught up in the smaller picture from a coincidental series of events yet 2 are still banned.
There are lots of chaps hoping to further the RTOC, and lots that already have. Dont leave Mart and Steve out to dry, and open the door to some of the other guys who have posted in here.
dave j gtt
29-01-2014, 21:00
:burnrubber: some good posts...
Matt you couldnt be more wrong mate this is the problem. People dont actually know what happened that thread was after the committee had taken a load of crap on facebook and then a the thread was stolen from the committee boards by someone who is so pathetic that they wont admit to it and they are being protected by big steve who says he knows who it is but wont say and mart who has said he doesn't know. Thats whats happend my personl thread was on the committee pages now maybe I have myself to blame for assuming the site was secure. But how would you react matt ?
Chris, by posting " someone who is so pathetic" you have just made that post absolutely useless... IF you are lowering yourself to call names over something like this then you really need to think before you type...
Has this NOT already snowballed enough because of name calling????... :sad2:
as I have said before please GROW UP.. some great ideas as always brought up by a bad thread and completely looked over or ignored..
.. this goes to many people involved ...
:burnrubber: some good posts...
You learnt from your little holiday I hope... feel free to make points, just try not to be rude & abusive, & FFS make some sense this time :D:wasntme: :agree:
dave j gtt
29-01-2014, 22:58
You learnt from your little holiday I hope... feel free to make points, just try not to be rude & abusive, & FFS make some sense this time :D:wasntme: :agree:
:laugh: derogatory remark you receive infraction 5 points :p
:laugh: derogatory remark you receive infraction 5 points :p
:agree::wasntme:
Adey aka Ewok
30-01-2014, 06:32
We were sent screen shots of loads of Facebook comments adey. I don't have Facebook but my girlfriend has so it's not ideal so only go off what I am seen or shown :)
What I'm trying to get at is if the comments that started that thread on the cm boards weren't on the rtoc fb page then they really shouldn't be used against anyone. You guys are here to police rtoc and fb rtoc not every members individual profiles and comments on fb. You guys spying/having screen shots of people's conversations away from rtoc made you all starts a thread voicing concerns but with derogatory comments about members. That thread then made its way off rtoc. Can one of you confirm if this is correct?
What I'm trying to get at is if the comments that started that thread on the cm boards weren't on the rtoc fb page then they really shouldn't be used against anyone. You guys are here to police rtoc and fb rtoc not every members individual profiles and comments on fb. You guys spying/having screen shots of people's conversations away from rtoc made you all starts a thread voicing concerns but with derogatory comments about members. That thread then made its way off rtoc. Can one of you confirm if this is correct?
We were sent screen shots off a public page not off someones personal page off a group page. So no adey believe it or not the committee have better things to do than "spying" as you put it.
Adey aka Ewok
30-01-2014, 07:15
We were sent screen shots off a public page not off someones personal page off a group page. So no adey believe it or not the committee have better things to do than "spying" as you put it.
thats fine just wanted to know :agree:
thats fine just wanted to know :agree:
:agree:.
it's not rocking horse science is it
:laugh: :agree:
http://flashpulp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lrg_steel_horse-490x316.jpg
Matt Cole
30-01-2014, 19:48
So are Mart and I reinstated or banned for 6 months....?
SIMPLE AS THAT!?
The CM can hold me to ransom for the identity of the leak all they like, but I'm not a grass. :coffee:
Sorry, but the CM continue to not look "Dynamic" the longer they string this out......
Steve are you still on restricted access?:laugh: TBH its not rocket science who might be in the picture for invading the commitee boards. Its someone who your extremely loyal to and someone that was once on the commitee. I would guess that said person left the committee but did not have their privalidges removed. Ooohhhh who might that be do we think? :scratch::coffee:
Big Steve - Raider
30-01-2014, 22:37
Steve are you still on restricted access?:laugh:
Who took the jam out of your doughnut? (http://youtu.be/MrZKMgDTjsM)
Ooohhhh who might that be do we think? :scratch::coffee:
Sounds like you already know, Matt. Perhaps you could inform the Committee, so that Steve & I can be reinstated...
Guybrush
30-01-2014, 23:33
Sounds like you already know, Matt. Perhaps you could inform the Committee, so that Steve & I can be reinstated...
Probable Butt Hurt
Guybrush
30-01-2014, 23:57
Perhaps But Humorous
Tbh, it would be great if the CM could deduce who did this based on the available info* and then reinstate all those that aren't guilty of having done it (and I assume ban the person that did).
The restricted access that's been in place for those who're reinstated could be deemed punishment enough.
That would move this along somewhat without too much additional aggro for the protagonists on both sides.
*I have no idea though if there is enough information now in order to achieve this.
dave j gtt
31-01-2014, 20:38
two good members are better than none.
Matt Cole
01-02-2014, 11:19
Steves admitted he knows who did it. :scratch:I imagine the commitee have an idea who did it. Steve needs to man up and all can move on. For what its worth (and not a lot really) I think Mart should be reinstated.
Steves admitted he knows who did it. :scratch:I imagine the commitee have an idea who did it. Steve needs to man up and all can move on. For what its worth (and not a lot really) I think Mart should be reinstated.
:agree:
Big Steve - Raider
01-02-2014, 14:18
Steve needs to man up...
Man up about what Matt, who leaked the information? :scratch:
Given the insults I saw on the CM boards I don't owe them anything & as i've stated before, if they want to ban or reinstate me then that's their decision, they're just drawing it out. :coffee:
andybond
01-02-2014, 14:22
Man up about what Matt, who leaked the information? :scratch:
Given the insults I saw on the CM boards I don't owe them anything & as i've stated before, if they want to ban or reinstate me then that's their decision, they're just drawing it out. :coffee:
I also dont see what they will gain about finding out who did it ?
I also dont see what they will gain about finding out who did it ?
That's been covered at least twice Andy. Or did you mean you don't agree with what was said in regards to it?
FFS, The committee probably knows who it was, Mart says he doesn't know and Steve says he will never say. If this remains the same and I can't see it changing, then we are simply not going to move forward.
Time to put this one to bed, prolonging it any further will only achieve more strife.
ScottKinnear
01-02-2014, 15:11
Okay,
It was me.
andybond
01-02-2014, 16:11
That's been covered at least twice Andy. Or did you mean you don't agree with what was said in regards to it?
I was quite possibly me that mentioned it twice Trev. Difference being as we are going round in circles , I thought I would continue ..
No, I meant the CM have responded on that score. They have outlined why they feel they need to know.
FFS, The committee probably knows who it was
We don't.
If this remains the same and I can't see it changing, then we are simply not going to move forward.
It won't drag on past the 8th of Feb (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=36239)
Adey aka Ewok
01-02-2014, 19:32
Your holding both to account though one said he doesn't know?
Big Steve - Raider
01-02-2014, 20:03
It won't drag on past the 8th of Feb
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::banned:
It won't drag on past the 8th of Feb (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=36239)
As per that thread, I've given an explanation, repeatedly, so why am I still on R.A?
Mart is one of the most helpfull and knowledgeable people in the club.Time to end the madness.:agree:
As per that thread, I've given an explanation, repeatedly, so why am I still on R.A?
Maybe they don't believe you?
You've never given an explanation as to why you removed the Sangliers thread? Care to explain?
The CM's know the reason why, and it's already been mentioned (by Steve, in Adey's thread I think) for everyone else to see.
Apart from the event date, there wasn't that much info/details in the deleted thread anyway; it was mainly just chit chat.
The event has since been cancelled, so it matters ye not now.
Sending post as pm. And just realised I can't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a load of bull 2 of the most important long serving members and this happens ,some car club this is ,been a member for 8 years and rtoc is not the same as it was all the those years ago
Matt Cole
02-02-2014, 10:02
End of the day the club is an organisation like any other that offers a service and has people in charge. Business , car club it doesn't matter. You wouldnt go to work and start sniffing about your bosses file' o' fax deleting his meetings and ripping out information to put in your own file would you? Unless it was for personal gain or intended direct conflict.
Motives aside, the brains of the operation has been caught , given a chance to hand themselves in and hopefully remain a respected member of the club.
I've got the 8th of February highlighted in my fike o fax!:laugh:
So you can't delete threads that you yourself create? :scratch:
If that's the case, then why have the option of deleting it?
So you can't delete threads that you yourself create? :scratch:
Someone else with common sense :agree: That was my argument - If someone has started a thread on here, it's surely upto them, as the 'author' of that thread, if they inevitably want it deleted or not.
In this instance, that's exactly what happened.
I'm not aware of any club/forum 'rules' that say otherwise...
I've got the 8th of February highlighted in my fike o fax!:laugh:
Me too. Put it this way, if I end up getting banned over all this, then that 6 months ban might as well become a lifetime ban, as you won't see me back on here/at any future rtoc events.
Big Steve - Raider
02-02-2014, 11:15
Me too. Put it this way, if I end up getting banned over all this, then that 6 months ban might as well become a lifetime ban, as you won't see me back on here/at any future rtoc events.
:agree: x2
Matt Cole
02-02-2014, 11:27
So you can't delete threads that you yourself create? :scratch:
If that's the cascommittee scratchve the option of deleting it?
I was refering mainly to the attempt of pilfering of club articles and the unauthorised access of the comitee boards. The main issue with the deleted thread imo is that it was a thread put up for rtoc members to input to and to follow with progress. Im not sure the reasons why Mart removed it but as you say its an option available for people to use.
Guybrush
02-02-2014, 11:42
So you can't delete threads that you yourself create? :scratch:
It wasn't just a thread. It was an event. The sites capabilities for handing events is by using an event board.
Mart deleted an event in order for Rtof to have the exclusivity to discussing us lot going to Sangliers.
I'm not saying Mart should be banned over it (and any threat of banning hasn't been in relation to this thread/event) , but come on... it's not just a case of deleting a thread.
Gordon, to mention it again...
If someone has started a thread on here, it's surely upto them, as the 'author' of that thread, if they inevitably want it deleted or not.
In this instance, that's exactly what happened.
I'm not aware of any club/forum 'rules' that say otherwise...
Matt, just to clarify, neither Steve or I pilfered any articles (or attempted to), and neither of us had direct access to the CM boards.
This was mentioned & confirmed a while back.
Gordon, to mention it again...
Matt, just to clarify, neither Steve or I pilfered any articles (or attempted to), and neither of us had direct access to the CM boards.
This was mentioned & confirmed a while back.
Mart, just out of interest, the committee thread that you read, what format was it in?
I guess it was circulated on e-mail, was it .pdf, .jpg etc!
It wasn't just a thread. It was an event. The sites capabilities for handing events is by using an event board.
Mart deleted an event in order for Rtof to have the exclusivity to discussing us lot going to Sangliers.
I'm not saying Mart should be banned over it (and any threat of banning hasn't been in relation to this thread/event) , but come on... it's not just a case of deleting a thread.
RTOC and Sangliers event have no official ties- It was organised as a Jolly boys outing. RTOC didn't have anything to do with it in a financial capacity, so Mart can do what he wants with the thread he posted. If it was a RTOC funded day then yes he would be in the wrong. But it wasn't.
Mart created a thread, then deleted it. He broke no rules. It might have been flippant or petty in some people's eyes, but he broke no rules.
Mart, just out of interest, the committee thread that you read, what format was it in?
I guess it was circulated on e-mail, was it .pdf, .jpg etc!
jpg I guess (or whatever picture format is common with screen-dumps).
jpg I guess (or whatever picture format is common with screen-dumps).
Ok, on those screen dumps can you not see who's login was used, top right hand side.
Guybrush
02-02-2014, 13:26
RTOC and Sangliers event have no official ties- It was organised as a Jolly boys outing. RTOC didn't have anything to do with it in a financial capacity, so Mart can do what he wants with the thread he posted. If it was a RTOC funded day then yes he would be in the wrong. But it wasn't.
Mart created a thread, then deleted it. He broke no rules. It might have been flippant or petty in some people's eyes, but he broke no rules.
Please :rolleyes: you want to differentiate between events based on rtoc putting club money in? An event is an event.
So as a member with admin rights, I can go and delete peoples accounts. There's no rule explicitly saying I can't - guess its cool then :cooter:
Ashy, I've long since deleted the email/pictures, so have no copies of them now. I mentioned that a few weeks back.
Guybrush
02-02-2014, 13:36
Gordon, to mention it again...
If someone has started a thread on here, it's surely upto them, as the 'author' of that thread, if they inevitably want it deleted or not.
I don't agree. :)
Ashy, I've long since deleted the email/pictures, so have no copies of them now. I mentioned that a few weeks back.
Are you able to help locate the email/pictures?
Ashy, I've long since deleted the email/pictures, so have no copies of them now. I mentioned that a few weeks back.
That's a shame :crap:
Mart created a thread, then deleted it. He broke no rules. It might have been flippant or petty in some people's eyes, but he broke no rules.
So if you were a member who had a ferry crossing and hotels booked on the back of an event which was organised on the RTOC, regardless of who posted the original thread, you'd think it was OK if that event was then removed from the club and then reposted on a club that you weren't a member of?
Plus mart didn't create it, Steve did, also It was deleted by a member with admin rights who has been a trusted member and moderator long enough to know not to hard delete threads.
I don't agree. :)
Are you able to help locate the email/pictures?
Apart from asking Steve, who, as he's already mentioned to you, doesn't want to reveal the source, then no, I have no way of locating the screen-dumps.
Gord', I don't agree with most things on here, but c'est la vie. We all have our opinions, be it right or wrong. Obviously my definition of what I think is right/wrong is different to yours, hence why I still feel, in the grand scheme of things, this has been blown way out of proportion.
Ashy, that thread mostly consisted of chit chat, which, again, I've previously mentioned - As I posted above, bar the event date, there wasn't many, if any, other facts/details regarding the weekend.
The fact that Steve PM'd everyone meant that no-one was gonna be kept in the dark about this event, as I also keep on saying.
Seriously chaps, please read & digest my posts, as I'm sick & tired keep having to repeat them.
This is the post I removed earlier.
The CM's know the reason why, and it's already been mentioned (by Steve, in Adey's thread I think) for everyone else to see.
Apart from the event date, there wasn't that much info/details in the deleted thread anyway; it was mainly just chit chat.
The event has since been cancelled, so it matters ye not now.
Mart, with the greatest respect as I would like to see you reinstated, that answer does not really cut it. I thought moving all information on the Sangliers event (an event that mostly involved RTOC members) was pretty childish and you must have known that with the atmosphere as highly charged as it was, hard deleting the thread off your own back, was going to wind people up. A simple post closing the thread and letting peeps know where they could find the info may not have been tolerated but would have been seen in a better light. The fact that the event was subsequently cancelled does not alter what went before.
Like I said no axe to grind here and CM's aside I don't think members think what you did was sinister but are at a loss to understand why.
Julian, to confirm a couple of things...
It wasn't off my own back per se.
As the 'author' of a thread, I was (and still am) of the opinion that if said person wants their thread deleted, they're within their member rights to request that/have it carried out.
As I say, I'm not aware of any club/forum 'rules' that dictate otherwise.
As an aside, people seem to be forgetting there's 2 sides to this story. Let me assure you that it's certainly not all down to Steve & I for this sh1t storm...
As an aside, people seem to be forgetting there's 2 sides to this story. Let me assure you that it's certainly not all down to Steve & I for this sh1t storm...
I appreciate that and the reason I removed the post earlier was because I didn't want to add more sh*t to the storm but there were ways of gaining the moral high ground and tbh the antics of most involved have left none covered in glory. I was just trying to explain the way some may see your part in this.
Julian, if you had seen the screen-dumps in question, your perception regarding all this may be somewhat different.
As I say, there's 2 sides to this.
Matt Cole
02-02-2014, 15:09
Julian, to confirm a couple of things...
It wasn't off my own back per se.
As the 'author' of a thread, I was (ancommittee am) of the opinion that if said person wants their ththed deleted, they're within their member rights to request that/have it carried out.
As I say, I'm not aware of any club/forum 'rules' that dictate otherwise.
As an aside, people seem to be forgetting there's 2 sides to this story. Let me assure you that it's certainly not all down to Steve & I for this sh1t storm...
Mart so are you suggesting that steve was the author of the thread and he asked you to hard delete it? Also is it not known that as a commitee member you do not hard delete events/threads but move them to a specific area fir review? Fsir enough if steve wanted it deleting but again the question is still 'why was there a need to remove it and for what benefit'? Surely you can see members would question this?
Julian, if you had seen the screen-dumps in question, your perception regarding all this may be somewhat different.
As I say, there's 2 sides to this.
Believe me mart we have also seen a lot of things that have been written about us, so please don't make out you are hard done buy in that respect. But I have no issue with putting all the name calling behind us. Now taking a thread hard deleting it and putting it on another site do you think that's ok ? Now if you dealt with it how you normally did you would of moved to the bad threads section. But you didn't and that's the facts of the matter. So then a message goes on saying if you want to see updates on the sangliers thread then they will be on RTOF. So can you not see how that could of been seen as trying to pull RTOC members away and it's generally a poor way of dealing with things. And as a moderator you knew it was the wrong way
So if you were a member who had a ferry crossing and hotels booked on the back of an event which was organised on the RTOC, regardless of who posted the original thread, you'd think it was OK if that event was then removed from the club and then reposted on a club that you weren't a member of?
Plus mart didn't create it, Steve did, also It was deleted by a member with admin rights who has been a trusted member and moderator long enough to know not to hard delete threads.
I think you mis interpret what I'm saying. I don't agree that it was the right thing, but he broke no rules- so cannot be punished for it. Morally I don't agree with what he did.
Why did Mart have CM privileges if he wasn't on the committee?
Also is it not known that as a commitee member you do not hard delete events/threads but move them to a specific area fir review?
If they need reviewing. In this instance, it didn't.
Back in the day, Ian/Rach/Bruce left the board moderation to those doing it & what they thought best. I've been moderating for many years (and on the old gtturbo website too), and no-one's ever questioned my decisions before.
Yet, a sh1t storm brews over some emailed screen-shots/comments made by a few CM's, the Committee then point the finger at me for deleting a thread (which, hands up, I did), and here we are. Some may argue that that was to deflect some of the sh1t...
Fsir enough if steve wanted it deleting but again the question is still 'why was there a need to remove it and for what benefit'? Surely you can see members would question this?
Not really. If anyone (even you ;)) had contacted me saying they wanted their thread deleted, for whatever reason, I would have done so(*), assuming there was nothing detrimental to the club, or members that had posted in the thread, etc.
* Who am I, or anyone else on here, to disagree/argue if an O.P wants their thread deleting?
I think you mis interpret what I'm saying. I don't agree that it was the right thing, but he broke no rules- so cannot be punished for it. Morally I don't agree with what he did.
Why did Mart have CM privileges if he wasn't on the committee?
Mart was a moderator on RTOC mate
I think you mis interpret what I'm saying. I don't agree that it was the right thing, but he broke no rules- so cannot be punished for it. Morally I don't agree with what he did.
But as Gordon says above there's no specific rule saying I can't log in to the admin side of the boards and change your name to something derogatory. Sometimes common sense has to prevail!
Why did Mart have CM privileges if he wasn't on the committee?
He doesn't / didn't, he had moderator privileges which is something different.
But I have no issue with putting all the name calling behind us
Neither do I. In fact, I have.
However, the R.A is still current, so it's a bit hard to 'move on & forget'.
Btw, with the greatest of respect, please don't tell me how I should or shouldn't have moderated the boards. I was a CM/been moderating the boards long before you were on the scene.
Neither do I. In fact, I have.
However, the R.A is still current, so it's a bit hard to 'move on & forget'.
Btw, with the greatest of respect, please don't tell me how I should or shouldn't have moderated the boards. I was a CM/been moderating the boards long before you were on the scene.
And you still managed to make a mess of it mart even with your experience not a very good come back
But as Gordon says above there's no specific rule saying I can't log in to the admin side of the boards and change your name to something derogatory. Sometimes common sense has to prevail!.
Lol. I'm waiting for topcnut to be my new name...
I agree common sense should have prevailed. The big question is why Mart decided to do what he done.
Mart can you tell us what the reason behind you doing it?
Can the committee call a meeting at an event (not Sangliers ;) ) and hopefully sort it out once and for all?
Things get sorted a lot better face to face.
Big Steve - Raider
02-02-2014, 16:01
We were sent screen shots off a public page not off someones personal page off a group page. So no adey believe it or not the committee have better things to do than "spying" as you put it.
Not all of the Committee have better things to do Chris....
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/BigSteveT/1-3.png (http://s306.photobucket.com/user/BigSteveT/media/1-3.png.html)
And where was the screen shot took from Steve? Was it the RTOC Facebook page?
ok.... So what happends on the 8th???
what/whic 'pics/screen shots' are we talking about? as you'll be amazed how many have done the rounds
And you still managed to make a mess of it mart even with your experience not a very good come back
Sorry, remind me who you are again?
sorry, Remind Me Who You Are Again?
Roflol.....
Sorry, remind me who you are again?
:agree::agree:
Sorry, remind me who you are again?
What do you mean mart?
Matt Cole
02-02-2014, 16:25
ok.... So what happends on the 8th???
what/whic 'pics/screen shots' are we talking about? as you'll be amazed how many have done the rounds
:coffee:
Matt..... lol i'll be buggered if i'm reading through all 4 pages of Crap! all I wanted to know was when our mighty leader might say something.... and 4 pages on.... nothing :scratch:
Matt..... lol i'll be buggered if i'm reading through all 4 pages of Crap! all I wanted to know was when our mighty leader might say something.... and 4 pages on.... nothing :scratch:
I think Chris is actually Miller!!!!!! :eek:
I think Chris is actually Miller!!!!!! :eek:
I thought you were leavening Phil after what you said on Facebook or is that a different person
I thought you were leavening Phil after what you said on Facebook or is that a different person
Ha ha facebook what's that!!!
Chris it seems to me you have a big chip on your shoulder about something don't know the ins and outs but it's all getting a bit ott now.
Draw a line let go.
Try not to forget this is a car club not a secret service. In my opinion there should not even be CM boards, FFS just text each other!
Not getting drawn into the bickering as I am here for a laugh and share the knowledge of my cars and have been for 15 years or so.
Matt Cole
02-02-2014, 16:44
Matt..... lol i'll be buggered if i'm reading through all 4 pages of Crap! all I wanted to know was when our mighty leader might say something.... and 4 pages on.... nothing :scratch:
Lol. Ha ok fair enough mate. In a nutshell steve and mart are currently doing the green mile. 8th of feb is the execution! :mart::banned::popcorn:
Ha ha facebook what's that!!!
Chris it seems to me you have a big chip on your shoulder about something don't know the ins and outs but it's all getting a bit ott now.
Draw a line let go.
Try not to forget this is a car club not a secret service. In my opinion there should not even be CM boards, FFS just text each other!
Not getting drawn into the bickering as I am here for a laugh and share the knowledge of my cars and have been for 15 years or so.
I have no chip on my shoulder mate .
Big Steve - Raider
02-02-2014, 16:50
Lol. Ha ok fair enough mate. In a nutshell steve and mart are currently doing the green mile. 8th of feb is the execution! :mart::banned::popcorn:
:laugh: no last rights either
Matt Cole
02-02-2014, 17:02
:laugh: no last rights either
Steve, you'll be lucky if you get a read of this months PFC mag!:laugh:
:laugh: no last rights either
you just dont' want KD sneeking in dressed as a nun the night before *shudders!*
Big Steve - Raider
02-02-2014, 17:05
Steve, you'll be lucky if you get a read of this months PFC mag!:laugh:
Every cloud has a silver lining :wasntme:
I think Chris is actually Miller!!!!!! :eek:
Who's miller ???
andybond
02-02-2014, 18:32
Who's miller ???
Could be Mart. Havent seen him post in a while.
andybond
02-02-2014, 18:35
pilfering of club articles
One second there Matt. I hope this doesnt affect our mutual appreciation of the f4r with a T engine. :)
club articles. There is no such thing really. This whole thing about intellectual property of the club is a bit on a nonsense.
The author who writes the posts retains the IP. Unless specified by a terms and agreement when they sign up.
Its incorrect to say that RTOC own everything on here. They dont. The individual who wrote the post ( like the top articles by IanS ) are the IP owner.
Adey aka Ewok
04-02-2014, 06:38
Originally Posted by chris
We were sent screen shots off a public page not off someones personal page off a group page. So no adey believe it or not the committee have better things to do than "spying" as you put it.
Not all of the Committee have better things to do Chris....
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/BigSteveT/1-3.png (http://s306.photobucket.com/user/BigSteveT/media/1-3.png.html)
oh well that reads differently. Where were these posts steve?
Adey aka Ewok
04-02-2014, 06:39
One second there Matt. I hope this doesnt affect our mutual appreciation of the f4r with a T engine. :)
club articles. There is no such thing really. This whole thing about intellectual property of the club is a bit on a nonsense.
The author who writes the posts retains the IP. Unless specified by a terms and agreement when they sign up.
Its incorrect to say that RTOC own everything on here. They dont. The individual who wrote the post ( like the top articles by IanS ) are the IP owner.
well i said that when i was so say pulled up for it (even though it wasnt me or mart or steve?)
Matt Cole
04-02-2014, 08:49
3654articles Utterbyid that when i was so say pulled up for it (even though it wasnt me or mart or steve?)
Its not the legalities that's at question per se more the act of using the articles for the benefit of another web site/club. Andy im sure all systems will be back to normal shortly and we can get back to discussing bent f4rt con rods!:D
As a last thought on the use of articles, im sure if someone asked to share your porn collection you would be less than happy. After all you dont really own the females displayed!;)
Big Steve - Raider
04-02-2014, 08:50
Where were these posts steve?
These were part of the threads "liberated" from the CM Boards Adey which caused this sh1t storm.
Guybrush
04-02-2014, 08:57
http://bkopdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/4-days-to-go.jpeg
Big Steve - Raider
04-02-2014, 09:01
These were part of the threads "liberated" from the CM Boards Adey which caused this sh1t storm.
EDIT - The Facebook comments came from a feedback to a post from an original comment by Chris Smith aka Shopboy about a new car or something... (can't remember) It was a discussion amongst friends as you would in a pub. Didn't think it was going to be used as evidence in the Committee's Court Marshall of Mart and I that's resulting in our impending Ban come this Saturday... :coffee:
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 09:38
I haven't bothered posting on here recently..
But seeing as it looks like Mart &Steve are going to get banned, I will let you know all know how they saw the committee boards....
I still have access to the all boards.
During my time of membership bod I set up my account to have full access in the event of me being removed from the committee.
Please feel free to ban/remove me from the site.
My time here is over
I haven't bothered posting on here recently..
But seeing as it looks like Mart &Steve are going to get banned, I will let you know all know how they saw the committee boards....
I still have access to the all boards.
During my time of membership bod I set up my account to have full access in the event of me being removed from the committee.
Please feel free to ban/remove me from the site.
My time here is over
mine my membership is up at the end of month 8 years of rtoc is an end , club is not what it used to be ,this thread and subject is a joke and the committee are a joke , two of the best members on here and you restrict and are thinking of banning them wrong imo.
time to move on
And you still managed to make a mess of it mart even with your experience not a very good come back
Rude and disrespectful
Matt Cole
04-02-2014, 11:26
I haven't bothered posting on here recently..
But seeing as it looks like Mart &Steve are going to get banned, I will let you know all know how they saw the committee boards....
I still have access to the all boards.
During my time of membership bod I set up my account to have full access in the event of me being removed from the committee.
Please feel free to ban/remove me from the site.
My time here is over
Chris, all this could have been avoided if you had put your hand up in the first place. :coffee:
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 11:31
Chris, all this could have been avoided if you had put your hand up in the first place. :coffee:
This is true...
My intentions was not for all this shit to kick off.
I have spoke to a few committee members and apologised to them.
How ever nothing has changed, the club is going nowhere.... Fast, but that's a different story.
So Chris, it was you that took the snap shot of the CM boards? This is all the Committee really want to know.
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 12:18
So Chris, it was you that took the snap shot of the CM boards? This is all the Committee really want to know.
:agree:
the club is going nowhereWell you didn't help it go somewhere by resigning from the committee!!!
Now you're saying you actively worked to stop it going somewhere!!!
Then you complain it's not going anywhere!!!
I still have access to the all boards.Prove it!
PM me something recent from the committee boards.
Finally.
So, CM decisions can now be made properly in each member's case, permissions sorted where necessary, and then this can be closed out.
Then, all those that still want to leave can do so.
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 12:35
Well you didn't help it go somewhere by resigning from the committee!!!
Now you're saying you actively worked to stop it going somewhere!!!
Then you complain it's not going anywhere!!!
1), I had my reasons for standing down - you know exactly why I felt I couldn't work on the committee and that I needed time off the boards.
2) was not my intention to stop it going anywhere, was my intention to help push things forward and have abit of a shake up/motivation...
3) will be happy if that last statement is proved incorrect
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 12:38
Prove it!
PM me something recent from the committee boards.
When I next go home and have a spare 10 mins to log on a computer instead of my phone I will happily do so.
1),
2) was not my intention to stop it going anywhere, was my intention to help push things forward and have abit of a shake up/motivation...
That couldn't have gone more wrong could it! :laugh:
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 12:43
That couldn't have gone more wrong could it! :laugh:
Depends on what the future brings... when this website is migrated over to a new Forum it will "hopefully" be a big improvement....
It appears the committee/background members are now acting abit more productive and going towards the members wishes....if this had been done back in day X when it was first mentioned alot of the recent crap wouldnt have happened...
Well you didn't help it go somewhere by resigning from the committee!!!
Now you're saying you actively worked to stop it going somewhere!!!
Then you complain it's not going anywhere!!!
:agree:
Absolute joke Chris, very dissapointing! I can't believe you've sat by and watched all this unfold without saying something!
At least now decisions can be made and, as Trev says, those who feel the club is going now here can let their memberships lapse and leave. Hopefully then we can crack on and push the club forward without all the sh!te we've had recently!
Depends on what the future brings... when this website is migrated over to a new Forum it will "hopefully" be a big improvement....
It appears the committee/background members are now acting abit more productive and going towards the members wishes....if this had been done back in day X when it was first mentioned alot of the recent crap wouldnt have happened...
So your logic is you've done everyone a favour :laugh:
Penfold aka The Dealer
04-02-2014, 12:56
So your logic is you've done everyone a favour :laugh:
always look on the bright side of life Ashy...
And as for letting this go on for ages... I havent looked at this thread for a while (it dont appear in the live screen which is what I use on my mobile..
Originally Posted by chris
And you still managed to make a mess of it mart even with your experience not a very good come back
Rude and disrespectful
I have to agree....
Guybrush
04-02-2014, 13:59
Originally Posted by chris
And you still managed to make a mess of it mart even with your experience not a very good come back
I have to agree....
Lets not go nitpicking every argy-bargy on the site... Come on. :cooter:
Rude and disrespectful
Jrp please read the thread properly and see what led me to make that comment. Or the ones after I dont want to fall out with you but it seems as tho you are just trying to pick for a reaction its the second time you have done it pm me mate
Jrp please read the thread properly and see what led me to make that comment. Or the ones after I dont want to fall out with you but it seems as tho you are just trying to pick for a reaction its the second time you have done it pm me mate
I've read the thread thanks.
Big Steve - Raider
04-02-2014, 16:08
I trust Mart & I can look forwards to the reinstatement of our full membership status this evening, as swiftly as it was afforded to Adey aka Ewok?
B18ftMOJO5
04-02-2014, 16:32
Amen to that, finally this saga is hopefully concluded gentleman.:agree:
Guybrush
04-02-2014, 16:41
I trust Mart & I can look forwards to the reinstatement of our full membership status this evening, as swiftly as it was afforded to Adey aka Ewok?
Mart & Steve - putting all the other issues to one side the committee need to understand how access was gained to the private boards. Restricted access will remain in place until either member provides an explanation..
So, uh.... probably :scared::p
Stop moving the goalposts, Gord'. The Committee have got the answer they wanted, so there's no reason not to reinstate the both of us now.
Penfold, thanks for owning up. Takes a bigger man to do that.
:agree:
Absolute joke Chris, very dissapointing! I can't believe you've sat by and watched all this unfold without saying something!
At least now decisions can be made and, as Trev says, those who feel the club is going now here can let their memberships lapse and leave. Hopefully then we can crack on and push the club forward without all the sh!te we've had recently!
Push the club foward bit late now ,why didn't you start 12 months ago
Guybrush
04-02-2014, 19:39
Stop moving the goalposts, Gord'. The Committee have got the answer they wanted, so there's no reason not to reinstate the both of us now.
Penfold, thanks for owning up. Takes a bigger man to do that.
Eh?
I'm not moving any goalposts. I just quoted what Alex posted it the other thread.
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