View Full Version : Acrimonious whinging
andybond
11-01-2014, 18:17
I prefer to call it voicing what is wanted by most members yet they don't shout up for being smacked down.
Bury your heads in the sand. Pretend the problem isn't there. Quality.
car.crash
11-01-2014, 18:29
There is no problem, apart from you.
andybond
11-01-2014, 18:57
There is no problem, apart from you.
There is an irony in your statement.
You are the very thing a club doesn't need. You don't nail your colours to the mast. You hover around arguments waiting to stick the boot in and you are critical of just about everything and everyone.
Grow up and formulate an argument rather than the throw away one liners of abuse that you seem to only be capable of.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 19:03
There is no problem, apart from you.
Take a look in the mirror son, you're the epitome of the word problem with attitude like that.
andybond
11-01-2014, 19:06
What's up now Andy ?
:D
Title of the forum is wrong mate. Its inflammatory , and insulting.
Why couldnt it be called the forum that doesnt display on the live board.
subtext : contentious issues are held in here. Enter at your own risk.
and just to be really , really arguementative , some members DO want to see that threads occupy the live feed :eek:
I see... so you're just being a cheeky northerner again. :cooter:
andybond
11-01-2014, 19:13
I see... so you're just being a cheeky northerner again. :cooter:
Or as its known , correct .
:D
dangerous dave
11-01-2014, 19:14
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qbuzbXuWwmU/TfgNkbGYpWI/AAAAAAAAAIE/vofAVg_oyxQ/s1600/Double+Facepalm.jpg
Or as its known , correct .
:D
In yours & probably dave's 'collective' opinion... :wasntme:
dangerous dave
11-01-2014, 19:18
There is an irony in your statement.
You are the very thing a club doesn't need. You don't nail your colours to the mast. You hover around arguments waiting to stick the boot in and you are critical of just about everything and everyone.
Grow up and formulate an argument rather than the throw away one liners of abuse that you seem to only be capable of.
Yawn...
Perhaps it should be renamed andy&dave forum.... :sad2:
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 19:32
Perhaps it should be renamed andy&dave forum.... :sad2:
Perhaps the Committee should be renamed "Elitist-never-wrong-we-will-silence-you-board"
:laugh:
Big Steve - Raider
11-01-2014, 19:39
At least Andy & Dave get a response from the Committee when they post :rolleyes:
dangerous dave
11-01-2014, 19:40
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rLHpEHrXcWg/TskKIQGKmOI/AAAAAAAABgQ/CkY1WGbvazs/s1600/yawn.png
Big Steve - Raider
11-01-2014, 19:43
I'll post it in here then........
OK, so because I messaged all of the people who showed some interest in Sangliers telling them that my future updates would not be posted on the RTOC but elsewhere I cannot now buy some parts for my car through the classifieds section??
Feels like a little bit of an over reaction to me.
So what exactly does my £15 Membership entitle me to now???
I await your response.
"Acrimonious whinging"
I thought it it showed a rare sense of rather dry humour.
:agree: :)
Too dry perhaps.
Va Va Voom
11-01-2014, 19:53
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Hi
Just thought I'd pop my head in to the site and see what was happening.
So what 's the problem with you all. I thought we were on-line mates?
ScottKinnear
11-01-2014, 19:56
I'll post it in here then........
OK, so because I messaged all of the people who showed some interest in Sangliers telling them that my future updates would not be posted on the RTOC but elsewhere I cannot now buy some parts for my car through the classifieds section??
Feels like a little bit of an over reaction to me.
So what exactly does my £15 Membership entitle me to now???
I await your response.
I'll quote this because I remember you asking a few days ago.
I'll post it in here then........
OK, so because I messaged all of the people who showed some interest in Sangliers telling them that my future updates would not be posted on the RTOC but elsewhere I cannot now buy some parts for my car through the classifieds section??
Feels like a little bit of an over reaction to me.
So what exactly does my £15 Membership entitle me to now???
I await your response.
I thought you were just in a temporary state of "purdah" whilst the situation was pondered. At least you still have a voice on here which is more than can be said for others on the other site.
Adey aka Ewok
11-01-2014, 20:14
This is a thread about things going on this site, no need to bring "the other" into it, especially if your facts are incorrect
Big Steve - Raider
11-01-2014, 20:16
I thought you were just in a temporary state of "purdah" whilst the situation was pondered. At least you still have a voice on here which is more than can be said for others on the other site.
The more i look Hoolio, the more i discover how myself and the other Two Amigo's have had many membership privileges removed and we are no longer allowed to post in ANY of the car forums..... :jerkoff:
andybond
11-01-2014, 20:26
At least Andy & Dave get a response from the Committee when they post :rolleyes:
This is true. But alas not from PM fromMiller. Ashy has been informative , as have Lee , Slammed66 , Chris and a few others. I have asked stuff from IanS and he has been forthcoming too.
And I cant help but noting its the CM and Mods who jump in a shown the yawn faces with a vast majority being in support on the non CM ..
Just an observation like ..
andybond
11-01-2014, 20:31
Can a CM help me out here ? Publicly ?
Over on 21toc , if I create a vote as an admin I can see who voted which way. I cant change it but I can view it.
Can you guys do that ?
Reason being , I really need to see if it is the Dave + Andy show in all this.
If I created a vote asking a generic question of :
Do you think the club is being run in the correct way
with 3 answers.
Yes
No
Dont care
I wouldnt want the members to think they are being spied upon.
Does that seem fair ?
Thing is Andy, how does that help. We already know there is a problem, what we need to know is where the biggest problem lies & try to address it in a manner that suits everyone equally.
Red October
11-01-2014, 20:40
:D
Title of the forum is wrong mate. Its inflammatory , and insulting.
Why couldnt it be called the forum that doesnt display on the live board.
subtext : contentious issues are held in here. Enter at your own risk.
and just to be really , really arguementative , some members DO want to see that threads occupy the live feed :eek:
He's got a point, the description is badly worded considering whats going on round the club, baiting almost.
andybond
11-01-2014, 20:42
Thi g is Andy, how does that help. We already know there is a problem, what we need to know is where the biggest problem lies & try to address it in a manner that suits everyone equally.
Steve. Did you type the first part with your face then mate? :p
Ok , my plan was as follows. Condensed stuff as not to bore the pants off you just yet.
1st Vote : Issues
Yes/No/Maybe
2nd Vote :
What with?
Multiple vote areas such as
Website / Mobile Access / CM / Democracy of voting in to CM / Classified / Facebook Integration.
Then based on that what you can do is work out what the major issues are , fend them off and fix them , and start working through the issues. Otherwise you are just scatter gun approaching.
That make sense ?
andybond
11-01-2014, 20:43
He's got a point, the description is badly worded considering whats going on round the club, baiting almost.
Careful Ash , you will be branded into the Dave and Andy club.
On a serious point at least its not just me ..
( or Dave )
Steve. Did you type the first part with your face then mate? :p
Ok , my plan was as follows. Condensed stuff as not to bore the pants off you just yet.
1st Vote : Issues
Yes/No/Maybe
2nd Vote :
What with?
Multiple vote areas such as
Website / Mobile Access / CM / Democracy of voting in to CM / Classified / Facebook Integration.
Then based on that what you can do is work out what the major issues are , fend them off and fix them , and start working through the issues. Otherwise you are just scatter gun approaching.
That make sense ?
Yep, perfect sense..... be nice if it was as clear cut as that, don't think it will be though.. someone, somewhere is still going to be put out... what will you do if it's you ?
andybond
11-01-2014, 20:52
Yep, perfect sense..... be nice if it was as clear cut as that, don't think it will be though.. someone, somewhere is still going to be put out... what will you do if it's you ?
Democracy and majority rules doesn't it ?
Its the way it should be.
Do it that way over on 21TOC and most other boards. Inevitably someone will feel put out , but if its 1 in 100 then unfortunately that's life. You can please everyone all the time.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 20:58
So what 's the problem with you all. I thought we were on-line mates?
We were, and still are apart from me and Ian S, he won't be my friend because he thinks i'm DaveL, whereas I am actually DaveL485, an entirely different person.
This is where my particular issues began, and the way I have been reacted to because of this, the repeated attacks and vilification is why I take particular pleasure in pointing out the shortfallings of the way this place is run. And there are many.
It's crazy really, a recognition of error and an apology would have turned me from a bullied and bitter member into a useful resource, but instead i'm now branded as a trouble making conspirator with ambition to take over the whole club. According to the powers that be, I am in cohorts with Andy Bond to achieve global domination, starting with the RTOC.
It's also massively entertaining, watching this lot screw over a car club. Massively. I am truly entranced and intrigued trying to figure out how the collective intelligence of the hierarchy reach their decisions.
I think I might give Jeremy Kyle a ring. It'll be a nice change from DNA tests, Adultery and bottom feeding mouth breathers abusing each other between dole cheques :laugh:
We were, and still are apart from me and Ian S, he won't be my friend because he thinks i'm DaveL, whereas I am actually DaveL485, an entirely different person.
This is where my particular issues began, and the way I have been reacted to because of this, the repeated attacks and vilification is why I take particular pleasure in pointing out the shortfallings of the way this place is run. And there are many.
It's crazy really, a recognition of error and an apology would have turned me from a bullied and bitter member into a useful resource, but instead i'm now branded as a trouble making conspirator with ambition to take over the whole club. According to the powers that be, I am in cohorts with Andy Bond to achieve global domination, starting with the RTOC.
It's also massively entertaining, watching this lot screw over a car club. Massively. I am truly entranced and intrigued trying to figure out how the collective intelligence of the hierarchy reach their decisions.
I think I might give Jeremy Kyle a ring. It'll be a nice change from DNA tests, Adultery and bottom feeding mouth breathers abusing each other between dole cheques :laugh:
If this is your sole motivation then you just lost a degree of support.
andybond
11-01-2014, 21:10
If this is your sole motivation then you just lost a degree of support.
Hoolio,
Dont take that post literally dude.
I think some of it is tongue in cheeky. Especially the world domination thing.
I am going alone for that bit.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 21:11
If this is your sole motivation then you just lost a degree of support.
If you review my posts, suggestions and so on, I think you'll find there is good material there. I am losing interest in this club though after the treatment of me and my friends recently....so yes sadly for RTOC I shall be diverting my efforts elsewhere, by the looks of it.
Good post though. Kind of shot me down there. You should be on the committee, thats the way it should be done :agree:
I am going alone for that bit.
But but but....you promised..... :cry::cry:
Tbh I did take it with a small pinch of salt and I agree things could have been handled a lot better (on all sides) I would really prefer it if nobody left ( I got banned from the RTOF for trying to start that discussion) and you know we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 21:24
Tbh I did take it with a small pinch of salt and I agree things could have been handled a lot better (on all sides) I would really prefer it if nobody left ( I got banned from the RTOF for trying to start that discussion) and you know we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.
:agree:
Good show. Keep that attitude up and you'll get a ban :laugh:
[adds pinch of salt]
He's got a point, the description is badly worded considering whats going on round the club, baiting almost.Baiting actually :)
I'll change it to something more serious at some point, perhaps when I feel a predominantly amicable vibe :)
Adey aka Ewok
11-01-2014, 21:26
Remember this is a discussion about this site not others. Anyone can come see your posts and it did come across especially when u admitted coming across just to say what you did, as trying to start grief between 2 forums
andybond
11-01-2014, 21:27
Baiting actually :)
I'll change it a some point, perhaps when I feel a predominantly amicable vibe :)
I could say thats an abuse of power.
But I wont.
( was that amicable enough ? :D )
Tbh I did take it with a small pinch of salt and I agree things could have been handled a lot better (on all sides) I would really prefer it if nobody left ( I got banned from the RTOF for trying to start that discussion) and you know we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.
:agree:
Do you think the club is being run in the correct wayA FAR better question is, "please suggest how you think the club could be managed better".
We don't need votes and polls. Look at that poll Gordon did. 30 responses. That's normal around these parts to that sort of thing.
Adey aka Ewok
11-01-2014, 21:33
Tbh I did take it with a small pinch of salt and I agree things could have been handled a lot better (on all sides) I would really prefer it if nobody left ( I got banned from the RTOF for trying to start that discussion) and you know we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.
Tbh I did take it with a small pinch of salt and I agree things could have been handled a lot better (on all sides) I would really prefer it if nobody left ( I got banned from the RTOF for trying to start that discussion) and you know we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.
tell you what here it is
"Brilliant, asking want we want and all the answers so far have been pretty much what is already available elsewhere. Instead of jumping ship why are you guys not staying put and trying to fix it. Ridiculous."
not really a start to a discussion i don't think more a statement.
andybond
11-01-2014, 21:35
A FAR better question is, "please suggest how you think the club could be managed better".
We don't need votes and polls. Look at that poll Gordon did. 30 responses. That's normal around these parts to that sort of thing.
Too open a question Ian. Too many variables.
Starting with digital answers where there are only two variables and drill down later.
he thinks i'm DaveL,I already stated very clearly that I NEVER thought you are DaveL, and that as far as I know THIS IS NO DAVEL. And that I merely couldn't be bothered to reach over and press 485.
This is where my particular issues beganNo you're committee bashing started that whole thing off, causing the reaction from the committee. Would scarcely have know you existed otherwise. You made a big splash and a bad name for yourself.
branded as a trouble making conspirator with ambition to take over the whole club.You've worked hard to achieve this status.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 21:44
A FAR better question is, "please suggest how you think the club could be managed better".
I have given you this many times. You just respond with abuse.
Elect a new Chairman, someone with the time and motivation to manage the club, be proactive, reactive, innovative and responsive.
He should redefine roles and redistribute workload according to availability and capability of resource, consulting with those resources in doing so. Roles with more than one volunteer can be elected by club vote if so desired.
The Chairman manages these roles and supports where necessary. Obviously there is a little more to it than that, but thats the core of it. Thats the first step.
My initial response to this was one word. "Resign". In an attempt not to be a complete ****head, I decided to make one last attempt at reason. Do with it what you will. It will benefit everyone, but if I had to select one person it would benefit most, Ian, it would be you.
ScottKinnear
11-01-2014, 21:44
Baiting actually :)
I'll change it to something more serious at some point, perhaps when I feel a predominantly amicable vibe :)
You don't help yourself :sad2:
I am losing interest in this club though after the treatment of me and my friends recently....so yes sadly for RTOC I shall be diverting my efforts elsewhere, by the looks of it.A growing number of people will be glad to read that.
In fact we're starting to learn that you're the reason some members are leaving. Not to go to the other site, just to get away from you posts. And Andy's, the two of you bouncing off each other, hence the new phrase, the Andy and Dave show, that's not a compliment.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 21:47
I already stated very clearly that I NEVER thought you are DaveL, and that as far as I know THIS IS NO DAVEL. And that I merely couldn't be bothered to reach over and press 485.
You are a LIAR. A plain, downright liar. You have outright accused me of being this other bloke twice on an open forum.
You even made point of saying I was banned for this-and-that and I went and asked Bruce Hockley to confirm I was not this guy, which he did.
I can't believe you even dare type that Ian, it's such a blatant lie.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 21:51
A growing number of people will be glad to read that.
In fact we're starting to learn that you're the reason some members are leaving. Not to go to the other site, just to get away from you posts. And Andy's, the two of you bouncing off each other, hence the new phrase, the Andy and Dave show, that's not a compliment.
You have some gall. You really do. I wonder if you would be this brave in person. Unlikely.
we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.As we've been saying and asking for continuously for years.
& so we start again.. :cry:
Too open a question Ian. Too many variables.
Starting with digital answers where there are only two variables and drill down later.A yes / no is meaningless.
Maybe as well start the 'drilling down' at the start.
Especially as we already know the final answer. The club has needed more help for a long time and has not been in receipt of it. The club does not need to get rid of anyone. It needs more people doing actual work.
People leave fast enough of their own accord as it is.
Tbh I did take it with a small pinch of salt and I agree things could have been handled a lot better (on all sides) I would really prefer it if nobody left ( I got banned from the RTOF for trying to start that discussion) and you know we really need people with drive and energy to keep this place moving.
tell you what here it is
"Brilliant, asking want we want and all the answers so far have been pretty much what is already available elsewhere. Instead of jumping ship why are you guys not staying put and trying to fix it. Ridiculous."
not really a start to a discussion i don't think more a statement.
And enough to get me a ban? I've said worse on Clio sport and been fine and they really are a bunch of fascists.
Andy, can you think of anything you can offer the club as help ? Serious question, you are quite vocal, so lets try to put it to some good use maybe ?
If you see Moggy's thread it does pretty much sum things up, what has happened before & is happening now & some suggestions on how we should start moving forward, not backwards as we seem to be now.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 22:02
content removed by me (5teve) as it does nothing other than cause more problems & had other members names involved...
Adey aka Ewok
11-01-2014, 22:03
And enough to get me a ban? I've said worse on Clio sport and been fine and they really are a bunch of fascists.
thats a matter for a different site, though im happy to discuss it further but not here, when i was under fire here and that's getting posted up there, along with screenshots being used against me, my first response close the doors down for a while until everything calmed down. apologies if this was not your intention but thats how it came across, especially when it wasnt really a new thread or a discussion more a dig. no more needs to be said regarding it on this site as discussing issues between the sites really isnt good practice
car.crash
11-01-2014, 22:05
Andy can't answer as to what the club needs as he doesn't have a clue, his goal is to have Daves helmet so deep up his arse King Arthur himself couldn't free it.
Why are these pr1cks even being humoured. All they are doing is stirring sh1t. We all know it.
dangerous dave
11-01-2014, 22:06
Give them a refund and ask them to close the door on the way out. :agree:
Elect a new Chairman, someone with the time and motivation to manage the club, be proactive, reactive, innovative and responsive.The plan was to do away with the title of chairman or president as some people see it as their target. I feel we'd be better with a group of people sharing the work load.
There is a role for someone to join the dots at times and that has been missing. But no-one has offered up their services.
Generally people who have had some solid help to offer have been gratefully welcomed by the rest of the management team and started getting on with it.
Often a few weeks later they realised they had either not the time or not the motivation and left again.
redefine roles and redistribute workload according to availability and capability of resource, consulting with those resources in doing so. Roles with more than one volunteer can be elected by club vote if so desired.In a club this small with so little help that is meaningless. There are no roles with more than one volunteer!!! You can read but you appear to not comprehend. It seems like you memorised or cut and paste these definitions from a management text book.
You have made some mature posts lately. If you started and carried on that way things would have gone a lot better. The calendar thing was great. You do seem like you have some energy and might be able to be useful. I'm not sure anyone will want to work with you.
And to a lot on onlookers it really does appear that you just want what you perceive to be the top job for yourself.
You have some gall. You really do. I wonder if you would be this brave in person. Unlikely.I was repeating to you what other people are saying. Not my feeling.
Your post looks like you are threatening me with violence.
Really, for a while I've been standing in the way of you being outright banned.
I'm no longer going to do that.
There are member complaints about you. Committee complaints about you. People leaving because of you. People asking why are we letting you carrying on like you are.
You have outright accused me of being this other bloke twice on an open forum.I have stated that. I did not mean I think you are someone called DaveL.
Dave... Ian... SHUT UP! NOW
this is going in bloody circles and is NOT HELPING, i know who both of you are and thats all that matters, and I love you both equally
right back to my sheep
some suggestions on how we should start moving forward
Giving the '3 Amigos' full access back would be a start.
I guess we'll never get 'that' decision explanation, so fine, let's let bygones be bygones, and get back on with the show.
Or is there still some axe to grind with us?
Giving the '3 Amigos' full access back would be a start.
I guess we'll never get 'that' decision explanation, so fine, let's let bygones be bygones, and get back on with the show.
Or is there still some axe to grind with us?
I personally don't know Mart. That would be for those who know the full details.
Personally, like I said, from my point of view it looked a little knee-jerk with all that was going on, but then I may not know the full story ??? If there was more to it of course.
Why couldnt it be called the forum that doesnt display on the live board.
subtext : contentious issues are held in here. Enter at your own risk.
and just to be really , really arguementative , some members DO want to see that threads occupy the live feed :eek:Mainly because I didn't think of it :)
Scoff did look into that option of people selecting what they wanted in the live window but he hasn't time to pull that one off. Anyway, it maybe all change in a few weeks.
Or is there still some axe to grind with us?
yeah.... your a shandy drinker in a foreign land :wasntme:
yeah.... your a shandy drinker in a foreign land :wasntme:
:laugh:
Btw, you moany Welsh barsteward ;) I personally didn't see your post asking about the Sangliers hotel. If you didn't get a reply, which I guess you didn't, you should've dropped me an abusive text :D
andybond
11-01-2014, 23:48
A yes / no is meaningless.
Maybe as well start the 'drilling down' at the start.
Especially as we already know the final answer. The club has needed more help for a long time and has not been in receipt of it. The club does not need to get rid of anyone. It needs more people doing actual work.
People leave fast enough of their own accord as it is.
I disagree.
If you start with a yes / no you have already asked a killer question.
Those with the No can drop out. For you can deal with them later.
Those on the yes side can now be queried.
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 23:49
Dave... Ian... SHUT UP! NOW
Funny how the thread was OK before he showed up ain't it. You'll notice he particularly singled me out again as well, despite that car crash idiot being even more obnoxious than I....not to mention his fellow CM sweeping the evidence of his outright lies under the rug by editing my post.
I'm done with the arguments now anyway. I'll leave the self-pitying, bitter, defunct old man to his miserable life.
andybond
11-01-2014, 23:49
Andy, can you think of anything you can offer the club as help ? Serious question, you are quite vocal, so lets try to put it to some good use maybe ?
If you see Moggy's thread it does pretty much sum things up, what has happened before & is happening now & some suggestions on how we should start moving forward, not backwards as we seem to be now.
I have offered web services , offered to point people in the direction of RTOC.
I would be happy to liase with other groups.
On the sole proviso I was voted to do the job by the members
andybond
11-01-2014, 23:52
Give them a refund and ask them to close the door on the way out. :agree:
Andy can't answer as to what the club needs as he doesn't have a clue, his goal is to have Daves helmet so deep up his arse King Arthur himself couldn't free it.
Why are these pr1cks even being humoured. All they are doing is stirring sh1t. We all know it.
Here comes captain and chaos.
Hold hands lads . Play nice.
Mr Car Crash , I trust one way we will meet. I hope so.
some members DO want to see that threads occupy the live feed :eek:
I've put a button at the top of the Live window to toggle between filtered and un-filtered :)
You will have to re-load the Live window to see it.
andybond
12-01-2014, 00:20
I've put a button at the top of the Live window to toggle between filtered and un-filtered :)
You will have to re-load the Live window to see it.
Its wrong what they say about you Scoff.
I told them all the time.
;)
No politics here. I'm just doing what I think helps everyone. :)
andybond
12-01-2014, 00:22
;)
No politics here. I'm just doing what I think helps everyone. :)
With genuine feeling , I think I am too.
Big Steve - Raider
12-01-2014, 09:42
Giving the '3 Amigos' full access back would be a start.
I guess we'll never get 'that' decision explanation, so fine, let's let bygones be bygones, and get back on with the show.
Or is there still some axe to grind with us?
Did we get an answer on this? Given that this section of the boards is now called "Beyond this gate there will be monsters, enter at your peril." I guess we wont and the axe's are sharpening up nicely.
Can i request a refund of 3/4 of my membership fee given that i'm not getting my moneys worth now.
There is a big division in this club at the moment. I am a member here and on the "forum that shan't be named". I am sick to death of all this bollocks every time I log in on here.
There are members on here which I don't particularly like, and vice versa but we make sure we steer clear and have minimal doings with each other.
This is going to sound a bit stupid, but if you don't like someone, just ignore them.
And if you really can't stand someone, PM them & arrange a place you can meet up and discuss face to face. If their opinion is different to yours, put your side over in a diplomatic way, thus engaging debate.
Wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep. Words to live by.
Enough of all this bullshit.
Rtoc are looking at this wrong.
Members took it upon them selfs to build a better forum.
Rather than get all bitchy about it, what Rtoc should do is sit down and think why did they feel the need to make a better forum, what is Rtoc doing wrong to make members feel like that, what can Rtoc do different.
The way Rtoc is handling this, too me is very sad, Rtoc is a well known forum for many many years, so why be scared of a newly made forum with hardly any posts on it?
Maybe a bit of competition would be good for Rtoc to kick it up the arse and bring life back into it.
All this bollocks has nothing to do with the club its about the people in it.Anyone no longer interested in these cars needs to do one.These cars attract young,old,northerners and southerners.Basically people that are totally different from one another and under normal circumstances would never mix.Thats why the club and the people in it need to keep it about the cars and nothing else.If someone posts something and you can help,then reply even if you dont like that person.:hump:
All this bollocks has nothing to do with the club its about the people in it.Anyone no longer interested in these cars needs to do one.These cars attract young,old,northerners and southerners.Basically people that are totally different from one another and under normal circumstances would never mix.Thats why the club and the people in it need to keep it about the cars and nothing else.If someone posts something and you can help,then reply even if you dont like that person.:hump:
Exactly. :agree:
If someone posts something and you can help,then reply
I would, but the '3 amigos' have been locked out of posting in the 'main forums' as well.
What with the lack of replies to our questions, I'm not sure what's trying to be achieved here?
Funny how the thread was OK before he showed up ain't it. You'll notice he particularly singled me out again as well, despite that car crash idiot being even more obnoxious than I....not to mention his fellow CM sweeping the evidence of his outright lies under the rug by editing my post.
I'm done with the arguments now anyway. I'll leave the self-pitying, bitter, defunct old man to his miserable life.
I will answer this the open forum Dave as I have nothing to hide, please don't PM anymore.
I had to delete the whole thing as it not only had your point in it, being a screen grab (where did you get that BTW) it also had other members names in it, which quite frankly puts us 3 steps back rather than just fuelling the Dave vs Ian fires that you were trying to do.
I hope that answers your question. No sweeping up, hiding evidence etc. I was just doing what I thought best for the forum.
You have some followers, some haters, some that don't really care & are just fed up with all the sh1t stirring that you seem to do. As soon as Ian posted you jumped on him, he defends himself & it continues.... I'm fed up with it & I'm sure most of RTOC is, just leave it both of you.
Personally I have got to the stage where if it were up to me, I'd just ban you, not because you have an opinion, but because you are plain annoying now.
DaveL485
12-01-2014, 19:21
I will answer this the open forum Dave as I have nothing to hide, please don't PM anymore.
I had to delete the whole thing as it not only had your point in it, being a screen grab (where did you get that BTW) it also had other members names in it, which quite frankly puts us 3 steps back rather than just fuelling the Dave vs Ian fires that you were trying to do.
I hope that answers your question. No sweeping up, hiding evidence etc. I was just doing what I thought best for the forum.
You have some followers, some haters, some that don't really care & are just fed up with all the sh1t stirring that you seem to do. As soon as Ian posted you jumped on him, he defends himself & it continues.... I'm fed up with it & I'm sure most of RTOC is, just leave it both of you.
Personally I have got to the stage where if it were up to me, I'd just ban you, not because you have an opinion, but because you are plain annoying now.
Wow, you're as deluded as he is then...hairy muff. Duly noted.
andybond
12-01-2014, 20:45
not because you have an opinion, but because you are plain annoying now.
Its not really full on bona fida genuine out of the ordinary reason for a ban thst Steve. Ban ricardo cos he has gone supercharged. Thats annoyed me. ( nowt personal ricardo ) . C'mon, thats just not a valid genuine reason.
Its not really full on bona fida genuine out of the ordinary reason for a ban thst Steve. Ban ricardo cos he has gone supercharged. Thats annoyed me. ( nowt personal ricardo ) . C'mon, thats just not a valid genuine reason.
Andy, wind it in.
DaveL485
13-01-2014, 09:38
Andy, wind it in.
So, let me get this straight, I protest at being flamed by Ian due to a case of mistaken identity, he continues to rip me up and dirty my name on here, I protest, he continues, I protest more, he then denies he ever mistook me for someone else, I post evidence that that is an outright lie, then YOU cover it up AND then try and make us be quiet?
Jesus Christ. Morality or integrity are obviously not required to serve on the Committee :disagree: After the treatment of Mart, Steve and Ady as well you should be utterly ashamed, all of you.
Slammed 66
13-01-2014, 09:42
After the treatment of Mart, Steve and Ady as well you should be utterly ashamed, all of you.
At least they can still access the site Dave!
You're a moderator on that board, so what does that say for your morality and integrity? Have you complained about unfair treatment on there?
Pot & kettle
Adey aka Ewok
13-01-2014, 09:55
At least they can still access the site Dave!
You're a moderator on that board, so what does that say for your morality and integrity? Have you complained about unfair treatment on there?
Pot & kettle
You had your access back days ago, if you tried logging on before running your mouth you would know that
Slammed 66
13-01-2014, 10:03
You had your access back days ago, if you tried logging on before running your mouth you would know that
Seeing as we had no place to discuss that, it's a little hard to know wouldn't you say?
And as it turns out you're wrong. Perhaps if you'd have checked before running your mouth you'd have noticed still banned
Adey aka Ewok
13-01-2014, 10:07
Seeing as we had no place to discuss that, it's a little hard to know wouldn't you say?
And as it turns out you're wrong. Still banned
In fairness I have no place to discuss my issue, I get no response.
For the other comment then I do apologise, I lifted the ban late on the 10th or so I thought. I will look into it when I can get to a PC. Again apologies if I am in the wrong.
Slammed 66
13-01-2014, 10:12
Again apologies if I am in the wrong.
Accepted and thankyou :agree:
So, let me get this straight, I protest at being flamed by Ian due to a case of mistaken identity, he continues to rip me up and dirty my name on here, I protest, he continues, I protest more, he then denies he ever mistook me for someone else, I post evidence that that is an outright lie, then YOU cover it up AND then try and make us be quiet?
Jesus Christ. Morality or integrity are obviously not required to serve on the Committee :disagree: After the treatment of Mart, Steve and Ady as well you should be utterly ashamed, all of you.
You are both as bad as each other now.
I already stated that I felt there was probably a knee-jerk reaction over Steve, Mart & Adey, I can't see the CM boards so can't say anything more on that.
I covered nothing up, if it just involved you & Ian I would have left the post, I couldn't edit it as it was a screen shot & had other members names in it that I thought would just drag more crap up again, as I stated previous, so no hiding anything. I have deleted nothing else of yours.
My personal feelings toward you are that I feel you should be banned, if Andy carries on, the same for him, maybe not permanent but a ban all the same till the site starts to move forward, which it can't with you two piping up all the time.
I think we need to move forward with some of the suggestions from members in Moggys thread, you just keep taking us back & will always do that all the time Ian is here, newsflash, I doubt Ian will be going anywhere, he has done & still does more than you know to keep RTOC running, I very much doubt anyone else, save Scoff, would put in as much free time just to keep a car club running over the last 10 or more years, especially with the amount of crap they get for doing it.
At least they can still access the site Dave!
Only a couple of sections, but, granted, it's not an out-right ban.
As I posted before though, I'm failing to see why this was implemented in the first place, and what it's now trying to achieve?
[/scratched record]
andybond
13-01-2014, 10:39
with the amount of crap they get for doing it.
Steve , I haven't give Ian crap. I have tried to help with some bits and feedback on others.
I think its a fair thing if I said that Ian and myself aren't going to see eye to eye on things and leave it at that. I think that's fair Ian ?
Ill sit back , and be ready and waiting to help if needed. If not I know of a few plans that are going to happen and I am excited to see how they pan out.
Big Steve - Raider
13-01-2014, 14:14
Why has Dave been Banned then Committee??
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/BigSteveT/Capture.jpg (http://s306.photobucket.com/user/BigSteveT/media/Capture.jpg.html)
Who of the 3 Amigo's will be next..
I'm sure we can guess, you aren't a daft lad Steve.
I'm also sure the committee will post up, not that they have to give a reason at all to us.
Guybrush
13-01-2014, 15:35
I am sick to death of all this bollocks every time I log in on here.
You, me, the committee and 95% of the members.
You, me, the committee and 95% of the members.
I'm sick of it too
Lowiepete
13-01-2014, 19:15
I think we need to move forward with some of the suggestions from members in Moggys thread...
Oh my, quelle surprise! Someone noticed that thread exists then. For so many to profess
their tiredness of all the negativity, it seems that people still prefer to head for this thread
instead.
I had put some thought into what I posted there. My hope being that peeps might pick
it up and run with it - bouncing some positive ideas about which perhaps we can live with.
No such luck...
I'll leave you guys to your "Acrimonious whinging" - it's so clearly in vogue here :( :cry:
Regards,
Steve
The answer to all this is very easy.
Everyone step down. Then the club, all members whom wish to vote, can vote the admin/commitee in.
If at that point, all the same admin get in. Thats it. Discussion over.
This club was ran far far better in the last decade.
Time for change.
Agreed:agree:
Time For Change!
There needs to be action now, no more words! stick a poll up to see if the members want change or not.
Agreed, we do.... but we need 'doers' not people that say they will do things & then back out after a few weeks of it.. There aren't many that are willing to give up personal time to keep a car club running..
The answer to all this is very easy.
Everyone step down. Then the club, all members whom wish to vote, can vote the admin/commitee in.
If at that point, all the same admin get in. Thats it. Discussion over.
This club was ran far far better in the last decade.
Time for change.
So the committee steps down how does the club keep goin while the vote goes on ? And then say new members get voted in how do they know what to do or how to do it?:confused:
Agreed, we do.... but we need 'doers' not people that say they will do things & then back out after a few weeks of it.. There aren't many that are willing to give up personal time to keep a car club running..
You don't know until you try!:)
You don't know until you try!:)
I don't think you can just oust the current committee, I think if people want roles they should be bought into the CM to 'help', see how they get on & then a vote. Or we could end up as Chris says, with a load of new people without a clue what to do.... it won't work.
Some roles are easy to do, some are not.
Being a member of a shooting club that has a committee & constitution (of which I am on the committee), trust me it won't work.
andybond
14-01-2014, 09:57
I don't think you can just oust the current committee, I think if people want roles they should be bought into the CM to 'help', see how they get on & then a vote. Or we could end up as Chris says, with a load of new people without a clue what to do.... it won't work.
Some roles are easy to do, some are not.
Being a member of a shooting club that has a committee & constitution (of which I am on the committee), trust me it won't work.
Could you dissolve the current people , vote in a "holding" member and form the comittee whilst being overseen by the holding member.
Once the commitee is formed the holding member retires ?
Phil you say time for change can you tell me what you want to change and how you would do it ?:)
I feel what we need to do is people continue adding to Moggys thread http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=36004.
This way we should start to see a pattern of what people think needs to happen, & maybe some suggestions will come from it that make sense (as they already have) & we can implement them into the club.
Not everyone will be happy, no-one ever is, that's life unfortunately.
I for one would like to do a simple vote, who is happy with the way the club is run, who wants change, who doesn't care as long as the crap stops.
andybond
14-01-2014, 10:02
I for one would like to do a simple vote, who is happy with the way the club is run, who want's change, who doesn't care as long as the crap stops.
Hey up buddy. I have proposed this but had the answer that people on here dont vote.
I would counter that if you force people to vote they will ...
Phil you say time for change can you tell me what you want to change and how you would do it ?:)
Add this into Moggys thread please if you have some input though Phil, or it will get lost in this thread. :)
Hey up buddy. I have proposed this but had the answer that people on here dont vote.
I would counter that if you force people to vote they will ...
It is true, in the past the voting thing hasn't worked, I feel, like you, we should give this a go to see the outcome. It would need to be worded simply & have 3 options ??
andybond
14-01-2014, 10:53
It is true, in the past the voting thing hasn't worked, I feel, like you, we should give this a go to see the outcome. It would need to be worded simply & have 3 options ??
I think you have to phrase the questions positivity.
1) Do you feel change is needed within the running of the club
A) Yes
B) No
etc
I dont think this will come to fruition though unfortunately.
Good idea keeping everything in one thread so that people's views and opinions do not get lost.
However, might I add that if a member does ask a question or come up with an idea, that those who are in the position of oversight of the club and the decision makers answer that question? Even if they think the idea is foolish or completely unrealistic, just a response saying so would show members that their opinions are at least being heard.
Thank you
andybond
14-01-2014, 12:37
Good idea keeping everything in one thread so that people's views and opinions do not get lost.
However, might I add that if a member does ask a question or come up with an idea, that those who are in the position of oversight of the club and the decision makers answer that question? Even if they think the idea is foolish or completely unrealistic, just a response saying so would show members that their options are at least being heard.
Thank you
Thats a top idea.
Any vote on electoral matters should require a minimum % of the membership to take part in order for the results to stand.
It would maybe make sense not to use the total number of club members as the 100% measure, since a number are totally/virtually inactive. Perhaps those who have logged on to the site at least x times in the last x months should be used to identify the total number of active members.
For example:
total members - 400
total members deemed 'active' - 180
% required for electoral voting to be legitimate - 51%
Minimum votes required - 92
A mailshot to the membership could be done beforehand.
Hold the vote before people step down then.
So the current Gang/Posse stay in place and simply apply for thier roles.
Im sure some of the staff will stay in place even after voting.
You can see who is likely to get voted out as they are the ones least likely to accept this kind of reform.
:agree:
andybond
14-01-2014, 14:19
Any vote on electoral matters should require a minimum % of the membership to take part in order for the results to stand.
It would maybe make sense not to use the total number of club members as the 100% measure, since a number are totally/virtually inactive. Perhaps those who have logged on to the site at least x times in the last x months should be used to identify the total number of active members.
For example:
total members - 400
total members deemed 'active' - 180
% required for electoral voting to be legitimate - 51%
Minimum votes required - 92
A mailshot to the membership could be done beforehand.
Seems logical. :agree:
Hold the vote before people step down......the current incumbents stay in place and simply re-apply for their roles.
You can see who is likely to get voted out as they are the ones least likely to accept this kind of reform.
There is no need for reforms to achieve the above. Those things are already covered within the existing club rules.
1) Do you feel change is needed within the running of the club
A) Yes
B) NoThis is just a con.
With all due respect, I have no respect for this nonsense.
The answer will be an overwhelming yes!
Even if a tiny tiny change is needed, then there is only one answer.
There is always some change needed.
So lets our save ourselves a load a time wasting and lets assume the vote has happened and the answer was yes.
• What changes are proposed.
• This is what the club as a whole needs to identify and work on.
The committee are very busy lately making a lot of changes.
Hold the vote before people step down then.
So the current Gang/Posse stay in place and simply apply for thier roles.
Im sure some of the staff will stay in place even after voting.
You can see who is likely to get voted out as they are the ones least likely to accept this kind of reform.
:agree:
Danny, i have a lot of time for you mate.. but you don't half talk some :crap: sometimes.. :wasntme:
andybond
14-01-2014, 16:31
This is just a con.
So lets our save ourselves a load a time wasting and lets assume the vote has happened and the answer was yes.
Ian , If I had of posted that you would have come down on me like a ton of bricks. Anyway , work through the next bit with me :
Assume what Trev said was taken up , 51% of all active people need to vote.
If 51% of the active vote , voted that NO they dont think anything needs doing then continue down the path that you are going down.
If it goes the other way , then readdress.
Its not a snipe or a winge at you or the CM , its to find out if there is a problem. I dont get why you are so defensive over this bit ? I appreciate everything in life can be improved on , but there is little point in terms of a club if noone wants it. That is all the first question is establishing.
I know the CM are working on stuff because we have had long PM's about it but the other guys out there will have to read between the lines and the post the Ross has put up. Why not tell them the things that you guys are trying to achieve ? Everyone loves a trier , even if some of the stuff doesnt come off.
When you put it like that, fair enough :)
There has been so much antagonism and sniping lately with little or no real justification.
We know that some changes are needed, already established that ages ago.
The simple problem is, and has been, lack of man power.
It's good and encouraging that people do make a general offer to help out. The difficult part is matching that to what needs to be done.
One role here probably is someone to do that matching.
Establish what is needed, write some detail and establish what it is that people offering can do.
If I or other people currently managing the cub could easily whip this up then we would have by now.
I was up until nearly 3 am again last night doing general stuff for the RTOC. On Saturday I worked 13 for the RTOC of the 14 hours I was up. Yesterday, today, a lot of days, a lot of hours. Other people have been putting in a lot of time lately too.
It would be good people offered to do some specific task that we could get going. Two people offered to do stuff with the home page a few months ago but that was not so easy to make happen. In time it may be.
Danny, i have a lot of time for you mate.. but you don't half talk some :crap: sometimes.. :wasntme:
LOL hi lover.
:cooter:
andybond
14-01-2014, 16:45
When you put it like that, fair enough :)
I think we nearly agreed on something.
This could be uncharted territory.
:eek:
I dont think anyone out there doubts your work and commitment to the club Ian. I never have.
JP Racing
14-01-2014, 16:56
Ok instead of voting on the current committee positions, like some people want, would it not be better to list all the roles that need filling with a brief description of the roll and candidates can put there names down and we can vote all these new people in that can help out. Makes sense to fill these rolls first before we have any major change. Just an idea
andybond
14-01-2014, 16:59
I see what you are saying , but some people might not like or want to work alongside the current people plus in whatever short timefram they might have to revote.
I think the idea of a steering group could work , or alternatively a transitional Chairman who does holds the club together for the few weeks that a transition is in place.
Failing that , Scoff is politically uncorrputable so could keep the site running in transient times.
But this is moot until it is ascertained whether a change is wanted.
ScottKinnear
14-01-2014, 17:00
LOL hi lover.
:cooter:
Hey if it's not the old leader of the call of duty 3 [c][t] clan!!!
You still playing? I am although not half as sharp as I used to be :(
Little punks!!!!
Any vote on electoral matters should require a minimum % of the membership to take part in order for the results to stand.
It would maybe make sense not to use the total number of club members as the 100% measure, since a number are totally/virtually inactive. Perhaps those who have logged on to the site at least x times in the last x months should be used to identify the total number of active members.
For example:
total members - 400
total members deemed 'active' - 180
% required for electoral voting to be legitimate - 51%
Minimum votes required - 92
A mailshot to the membership could be done beforehand.
:agree: have to agree a vote is the only way around this. Maybe also give the positions / roles a length of time a couple of years:scratch:.
andybond
14-01-2014, 17:37
Maybe also give the positions / roles a length of time a couple of years:scratch:.
Agree with that .
They already do.
http://www.rtoc.org/club/?show=committee
Adey aka Ewok
14-01-2014, 17:43
the rules currently state, if i read them wrong that the term is a year, and members stand for re election, voted for by the committee and then told to the club at the agm. thats if im reading them right? thing is i think we are all thinking along the lines of the club voting but as far as i read ( again could be wrong) the committee make the decisions on who are in the committee? Is this correct?
Adey aka Ewok
14-01-2014, 17:45
the rules currently state, if i read them wrong that the term is a year, and members stand for re election, voted for by the committee and then told to the club at the agm. thats if im reading them right? thing is i think we are all thinking along the lines of the club voting but as far as i read ( again could be wrong) the committee make the decisions on who are in the committee? Is this correct?
arghhhhh dam no edit button! unless i read them wrong not if i read them wrong, also could of deleted it after the link was posted :crap:
From my experiance it's more like ...we have a vacancy ...no-one applies for the role or at most only a couple and if we are lucky we manage to get someone that sticks with it for more than a few months ...
Yes the committe make the decision but that's irrelevant if it's a choice of 1 .
Sorry to piss on any parades of a brave new world but really ,honestly, and with zero axe to grind that's what happens Adey .
Adey aka Ewok
14-01-2014, 17:52
yeah cool, just double checking that's how it was written. I think the general majority of people are thinking that they some how get to vote members into the committee, and thats just not how it works :agree:
Lowiepete
14-01-2014, 18:24
OK, so now that this thread has turned toward positive replies, here's my 2p.
Having closely read the club constitution, there is IMO a flaw - one which inevitably leads
to accusations of clique etc. There should be clear demarcations between elected officers
and appointees. The top 4 positions, plus committee members per se should all be elected
by the membership - preferably by postal ballot / online ballot. Terms of office should also
be looked at - maybe eligible for up to 4 years, in place for 2 years without challenge.
The appointed officers should only be appointed by the committee - events organiser,
shopkeeper, publicity officer, etc. They should not be considered as committee members!
All appointed officers can/should attend committee meetings but whether or not they
take part in a committee vote should be in the gift of the chairman.
The whole point is to spread the workload over as many heads as possible so that the
post-holders are able to give it their all. Many hands etc...
The above should go some way toward solving current issues.
Regards,
Steve
People keep moaning and making opinions on about the club ,why don't we just have a vote about the changes etc or this threads will go on and on ,or is the commitee keep going to ban members and restrict them
Hey if it's not the old leader of the call of duty 3 [c][t] clan!!!
You still playing? I am although not half as sharp as I used to be :(
Little punks!!!!
Greetings!
add me fella HtecElite-Kenobi
ScottKinnear
14-01-2014, 20:46
Greetings!
add me fella HtecElite-Kenobi
Will do.. You playing on ps4?
People keep moaning and making opinions on about the club ,where don't we just have a vote about the changes etc or this threads will go on and on ,or is the commitee keep going to ban members and restrict them
Come again :scratch:
Come again :scratch:
Edited it , done on my phone as the website is phone friendly :)
leads to accusations of clique etc.The committee has never been the 'clique'. Some members have commented over the years that there have been a group of members who think they ARE the RTOC rather than part of it. This has gone on a lot longer than there's been committee.
The whole point of the committee is to spread the workload so it's not just one person and maybe a couple of friends doing everything.
Red October
15-01-2014, 01:40
The whole point is to spread the workload over as many heads as possible so that the
post-holders are able to give it their all. Many hands etc...
The above should go some way toward solving current issues.
Thats the best way to achieve the common goal. Fill the roles that are empty and provide any support for the people in roles who are struggling or busy. Sort of like a gym buddy per se. We all know life is busy and sometimes it takes priority over hobbies and intrests so a role helper would make sense.
There is so much energy and abundance in this club im sure it wont crack, fade or splinter. Its how we all channel our efforts. In moggys thread there is the answer to 99% of problems or most issues the club has.
From someone who over the last few weeks who has become sick to death of the acrimonious whinging, perhaps there is some light in the tunnel. Good luck to all who are positively involved and the comittee :agree:
The fact some of them are busy on here at 1.38am as I post is a testament to there commitment.
Lowiepete
15-01-2014, 03:33
The committee has never been the 'clique'. Some members have commented over the years that there have been a group of members who think they ARE the RTOC rather than part of it. This has gone on a lot longer than there's been committee.
The whole point of the committee is to spread the workload so it's not just one person and maybe a couple of friends doing everything.
Please Ian, don't take my posts out of context. Now is not the time for CMs to be on the
defensive. The emphasis is that there have been such accusations quite vociferously
made and under your present constitution that perception will continue, regardless of it
being real or not. I'm not making accusations here! I'm simply commenting upon a quite
dreadful situation as I see it. Someone with fresh eyes and dismayed by the negativity.
As for your last sentence, again, isn't that exactly what people have perceived to have
happened? All I've read of late is that too few people are sufficiently active. I agree with
the spirit of what you're saying, wholeheartedly, and the suggestions I'm making are not
attacks, but simply a different, more open, way of looking at things. We all hate change,
but change is inevitable if the club is to move ahead. No organisation stands still and
thrives.
Regards,
Steve
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