intercoolers/chargecoolers, talk to me

[Adey aka Ewok]

ok so on my little project im going to run some sort of charge air cooler. space means that if i fit an intercooler i will have to reduce the size of the rad, its already small so not feeling reducing its size. I could go custom and fit a cooler the same size as the rad and have a custom rad mounted directly behind it the same as a lot of manufacturers are doing though i have seen some nice tube type charge coolers. i could effectively run a pre rad as large as my rad and have a short pipe run. who has experience with them and any pros or cons? a cutom rad and cooler is going to cost and a custom prerad and charge cooler will also cost a fair bit though i could use my original rad in that setup. what route would best suit my needs?

[rs250nut]

Pwr make some nice stuff if it's a barrel type cooler your looking for

http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=67

They even list a cfm - hp chart above, with charge cooling I suppose the larger the water side of things the better, I mean if you have a large rad and plenty of water coupled with a decent pump where can things go wrong other than adding to much weight maybe.

[boostjunky]

If you're short on space my choice would be to keep original coolant setup and fit a chargecooler with one or perhaps two heat exchangers either side of the oem coolant radiator (space permitting). Using a chargecooler will also keep your boost plumbing simplified :agree::smokin:

[DaveL485]

Short answer:
Only go with a chargecooler if you're short on space or frontal area/capacity to cool. Otherwise intercooler.


Long answer:
A Chargecooler is more efficient that an intercooler, but you still need to cool the water back down with another rad, so you end up with two sets of inefficiencies. The overall efficiency might be (at best) the same as an intercooler, but probably less.
Also there is the added complexity of multiple rads, pipework, header tank and pump etc... it's a lot of kit to find space for and rig together.


If I was building a GTA or something similar then I would use a CC.

[ren5gord]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

I had all the same problems as you with cooling and fitting everything in the std engine bay space.

You also need to think where you are going to mount the airfilter and once you start making some real power the std oil cooler isnt up to the job.

I use a fiat (2006) 500 main water radiator as it fits perfectly in the space, and a fiat cinqitento rad for the chargecooler, with a oil water cooler as well.

You can fit in a decent size air2air intercooler without major mods to the front of the car anf losing space for the coolant raf.

[Red October]

ok so on my little project im going to run some sort of charge air cooler. space means that if i fit an intercooler i will have to reduce the size of the rad, its already small so not feeling reducing its size. I could go custom and fit a cooler the same size as the rad and have a custom rad mounted directly behind it the same as a lot of manufacturers are doing though i have seen some nice tube type charge coolers. i could effectively run a pre rad as large as my rad and have a short pipe run. who has experience with them and any pros or cons? a cutom rad and cooler is going to cost and a custom prerad and charge cooler will also cost a fair bit though i could use my original rad in that setup. what route would best suit my needs?

If you pm me your mobile number I can send you some pictures of my setup sparkie built which is unique to say the least with cc 2x rads, 172 rad, ic all behind oe setup bodywork with next to 0 choppage.

[markey b]

i've only got a radtec chargecooler on my mr2 because someone decided to put the engine in the wrong place, otherwise, intercooler

i think TNT andy went from PWR to cossie and the intercooler recorded lower temps

[Trevhib]

If you pm me your mobile number I can send you some pictures of my setup sparkie built which is unique to say the least with cc 2x rads, 172 rad, ic all behind oe setup bodywork with next to 0 choppage.

I think that a lot of people here would like to see those pics. Are you able to upload them to RTOC?

[TNT ANDY]

i've only got a radtec chargecooler on my mr2 because someone decided to put the engine in the wrong place, otherwise, intercooler

i think TNT andy went from PWR to cossie and the intercooler recorded lower temps

Markey - it's all relative buddy and tbh it really depends on what you're pushing out of your turbo. I can run my T25 @ 16psi and get a 15 degree above ambient all day on track. This will be about 170bhp. If I'm up at 20psi I'm seeing +30 degree's. That's not because I have a **** cooler, I'm way past my turbo's efficiency and just pushing out red hot air.

My next plan is to get the T28 on very soon and get back up to Scoff to get that mapped up. If I can have that @ 200bhp and be seeing no more than say + 15 degree's I'll be keeping that set-up, otherwise it's a massive FMIC for me. But it's well documented that you can easily go too big and losing all sorts of efficiencies. I'm really not cleaver enough to work this out, so it's gonna be a case of trial and error for me.

This all said - you can push air into your engine at 70 degree's if you like and so long as it don't det and all temps are kept in check I would imagine all is good - but not as good as it could be.

I'll be happy if I see no more than 40 degree's on any given day.

[Red October]

I think that a lot of people here would like to see those pics. Are you able to upload them to RTOC?

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20131005-WA0002.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20131005-WA0002.jpg.html)

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20130921-WA0002.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20130921-WA0002.jpg.html)

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20130921-WA0001.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20130921-WA0001.jpg.html)

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20130921-WA0000.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20130921-WA0000.jpg.html)

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20130903-WA0000.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20130903-WA0000.jpg.html)

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20131005-WA0003.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20131005-WA0003.jpg.html)

Copyright Sparkie!!! :agree:

[andybond]

Looks top dollar that Ash.

[R5MJH]

[/URL]

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG-20130921-WA0002.jpg (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20131005-WA0002.jpg.html)



(http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20130921-WA0001.jpg.html)



[URL="http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20131005-WA0003.jpg.html"] (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/RedOctober5/media/IMG-20130903-WA0000.jpg.html)

Copyright Sparkie!!! :agree:


looks like a frenchies mod too:laugh::laugh::agree::agree:

they love a PWR:wasntme::wasntme:

[R5MJH]

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o626/biglarge1/pwr_zps207a403d.jpg

as i said pmsl:laugh::laugh:

[Red October]

I noticed a lot of the French lads ran them at Pod last year on the sunday after ND. After speaking to a few of them I decided to get one and also decided on a small fmic. UK climate isn't far off the French one these days lol

In the summer on track ill have the best of all worlds and if the PWR screws up the boost I can get rid, but it should be cool as ice with 2 150X450 CC rads wit 2x pumps.

[DaveL485]

Ashy, did you do any testing as regards which way around to put the IC and CC in sequence? Curious as to which way around would be the most effective....brain suggests the way you have it is probably right, but some numbers to that effect would be interesting :agree:

[Red October]

Ashy, did you do any testing as regards which way around to put the IC and CC in sequence? Curious as to which way around would be the most effective....brain suggests the way you have it is probably right, but some numbers to that effect would be interesting :agree:

Never got far enough to do some numbers testing before she packed up on MOT emissions.

I intend to do a decent study on everything next year when its rebuilt...........again!

[Trevhib]

Cool setup, thanks for uploading :agree:

[Sparkie]

Ashy, did you do any testing as regards which way around to put the IC and CC in sequence? Curious as to which way around would be the most effective....brain suggests the way you have it is probably right, but some numbers to that effect would be interesting :agree:


to be honest it was more a case of getting it to all fit.
i reckon the chargecooler is better at getting rid of the majority of the heat due to the heat transfer properties of the water , but can never really get it as cold as a large front mount intercooler ( if it were used on its own )
hence the smaller intercooler afterwards to really get it chilly.

with the rad fan on, at idle, the front mount intercooler got very cool, which was encouraging.

probably suffer from carb freeze now.....

[DaveL485]

t
probably suffer from carb freeze now.....

Hahaha sods law! I know a 21 that runs the CC-IC setup and it seems to work really well.

[Woznaldo]

Good ducting is worth it's weight in gold. A good tight seal and a good exit route if possible. A proper ducted setup like Russell's works well, but most won't want to cut into the bonnet to make it work.

[Adey aka Ewok]

well as im a pikey and dont like spending money im going to try with a pace charge cooler. will fit a decent sized rad for it. will get me on the road again sooner but might change at a later date

[Andrew Cooke]

well as im a pikey and dont like spending money im going to try with a pace charge cooler. will fit a decent sized rad for it. will get me on the road again sooner but might change at a later date

You're only going to be running ~1.2bar, so you don't need the kind of cooling that the GTT needs, but you will still need the flow. Try and measure CC water temperature, you don't need a hugely fast acting sensor for this, but if you can keep the water at about 5C above ambient you'll be golden. Certainly you need to keep it under 40C.

[Adey aka Ewok]

good to know, cheers. realistically im about 1-2 months away from having it on there and running, so ill makes sure a water temp gauge is on the build list :agree: