Losing faith

[JohnAldridge101]

Soo.... Bought my 5 a few years ago off good old eBay, needing "minor" work to get running and on the road again, the engine had been rebuilt and just needed all the pipe work installing, so with some help of the forum I managed to put everything in place and fire her up, was well chuffed, then a lot of white smoke knocked the smile off my face, the previous owner didn't clean any of the old head gasket off the block or head when installing the new head gasket, really annoying, sooo I rectified this problem, started her up again, white smoke again..... :( just a little water in the manifold and exhaust system I thought, then White turned to grey :sad:

Grey smoke + wobbly turbine shaft = new turbo time, again a little dis heartened to say the least! I bought a t2t25 hybrid jobby from a member and all was well :sad2:

Sat in the drivers seat ready to turn the key (king lead disconnected to prime new turbo with oil) and turn! Nothing.. Not a single dash light, checked battery voltage, was something like 12.4v, I won't repeat the language that spilled from my mouth.

At that point I really had had enough, so I parked the car up in a garage went to Afghanistan and returned to a freshly built garage enough to house 3 cars, did a few months work on my house and a few other cars and vans, then one night around 9pm I decided to drag the 5 out of my mom n dad's garage tow it to my house and finally finish the bugger.:cool:

I made a list of jobs to do and started to crack on, I had concluded the alarm / immobiliser system had kicked in killing all electrical systems, so a few hours after work for a week I had removed all 3 alarms, a Renault one, a Gemini one and a Meta one, one of the previous owners must of been paranoid as hell.

All the wiring was repaired and good as new, time for start up, a minute on the starter motor and a little solvent cleaner down a vacuum hose she fired up and ran fairly well (a little hesitant) considering being stood for 3-4 years. A little test drive was needed around the block.

A list of new problems,
Won't engage reverse, linkage fouls on exhaust pipe
Had to operate accelerator and choke to pull off with out stalling
100 meters up the road started popping banging flames out the exhaust lighting up the entire street, a little entertaining but when it cut out and would not start up again 200 meters from home I wasn't best pleased :cry:

After a long push home and back into the garage I slumped onto my stool (half dead from exhaustion) and pondered how to make a fire seem accidental.

Air + fuel + ignition, fundamentals of an IC engine.
I have air
I have ignition (spare plug inserted into the king lead and wound the engine over, lots of bright sparks, lifted the plug away from earth and spark jumped 4-5 cm lifted a little further and I got a healthy shock haha:laugh:
Fuel, has to be fuel, so I prepared my work bench like an operating theatre, über clean and organised, stripped the carb, cleaned very thoroughly in solvents and ultra sonic bath, inspected everything swapped a few items over from a spare carb and reassembled.

Fitted onto car and diddly squat will not even attempt to fire, gutted, removed the carb stripped again and reassembled, still nothing.

Got so annoyed with the engine I decided to remove the rear bumper :scratch: it was sagging a little, only to find the bloody side panels are rotten, I'm dreading taking any more body kit off and finding what horrors await me.

And now I'm considering a long walk off a short pier.
Thanks for reading my little rant.

[DaveL485]

Air + fuel + ignition, fundamentals of an IC engine.


Fuel
Spark (correctly timed)
Compression

Fuel can be provided as simply as tipping an egg cup full down the choke to get a couple of fire events.
Compression is mechanical and can be measured with a tester (and to be fair you can usually hear the difference when spinning over if there is a big issue)
Spark...little harder. You can verify its there as you have done...King>Dizzy, Dizzy>Plug but you need to make sure its at the right time.


Or...you could just burn it :laugh:

[chris]

I would put money on timeing being out the popping and banging but strange that it wont start after already running once. Also when I took my alarms out I had to bypass the relay by the aei. I am sure that it was your dad that came to mine in shrewsbury and picked up an engine block? . I see your in Telford I could maybe come give you a hand?

[JohnAldridge101]

Fuel
Spark (correctly timed)
Compression

Fuel can be provided as simply as tipping an egg cup full down the choke to get a couple of fire events.
Compression is mechanical and can be measured with a tester (and to be fair you can usually hear the difference when spinning over if there is a big issue)
Spark...little harder. You can verify its there as you have done...King>Dizzy, Dizzy>Plug but you need to make sure its at the right time.


Or...you could just burn it :laugh:


Compression is there, noticeable change in starter motor sound when plugs are removed.
Will check with tester though.

Had an old window clean bottle filled with fuel, sprayed down the carb and fired up.

[JohnAldridge101]

I would put money on timeing being out the popping and banging but strange that it wont start after already running once. Also when I took my alarms out I had to bypass the relay by the aei. I am sure that it was your dad that came to mine in shrewsbury and picked up an engine block? . I see your in Telford I could maybe come give you a hand?


Yes thats right i have the block at work all clean ready for painting and then big things are planned, gordini head, fancy internals and few other goodies, just want the car on the road for now to gauge what i want from it. Thanks so much for the block.

Im certain the timing is correct, and ignition system working as it should

a hand would be great, or an accomplice to hold the matches haha
I read through your resto thread lastnight, im jealouse of the paint and those wheels, and your functioning engine haha, be interesting what the verdict is from forge.

Will take a trip up to CGB and buy a complete working carb me thinks

[chris]

Took pipe off carb and into a container and then cranked. Fuel pump only works when cranking the reason I say this is because, you mentioned that when you spray fuel in carb it fires. Fuel pump relay can stick theresloads of things

[andybond]

As Chris said. Start at the beginning.

Take the fuel pipe off that goes into the side of the carb. Grab a jam jar or something clear and place pipe into it.

Crank over the car.

Any fuel ?

If not it sounds like your fuel pump relay is U/S. Its hiding behind the glovebox ( well behind and underneath ) and its marked CARTIER. It should be black , but hte odd ones are green.

Let us know how that goes.

FWIW , it does sound like the timing is 180 degrees out. The car will start and idle with this but will pop bang and misfire like mad ..

[andybond]

a hand would be great,

where abouts are you ?

[JohnAldridge101]

Im in telford, west midlands

Fuel definatly is being pumped, disconnected the pipe to fill up my squirty bottle.

[Guybrush]

Buy a spare working carb and see how that compares?

[JohnAldridge101]

I think thats the only way round it

[andybond]

Buy a spare working carb and see how that compares?

Naw , not yet. We havent checked everything else first !

This kinda leave ,

TDC ,
Timing
Carb.

Next up, timing.

I would whip off the dizzy cap, get to TDC and check the rotor arm position.

[JohnAldridge101]

Naw , not yet. We havent checked everything else first !

This kinda leave ,

TDC ,
Timing
Carb.

Next up, timing.

I would whip off the dizzy cap, get to TDC and check the rotor arm position.


Engine at TDC piston number 1 closest to fly, fly marking lined up with gearbox marking 0 degrees.
Cam shaft gear dizzy drive chunky end to fly,
Rotor arm 8 degrees past TDC, copper contact facing to front of car and number one contact on cap.

All plugged up and nothing still.

Turning engine over I felt the fuel pump, working.
Boost gauge pipe off, squeeze bottle spraying fuel down it, cough, splutter and fired up. Only while spraying fuel manually

[TNT ANDY]

Check spark plug gaps and clean plugs. I had no end of troubles getting Fluffy started once due to saturated and fowled plugs.

[Andy M]

Few more things to check:

If you have verified fuel is getting to the carb, verify its actually getting into it. Crank the car for a 30 seconds or so, whip the carb top off and check the float bowl is full of fuel or loosen the drain / main jet access to see if anything drains out.

Is your accelerator pump working? Whip off the carb elbo and check for the squirt of fuel when the throttle is opened.

Make sure the idle jet is clean and clear, may take a good few goes at cleaning before it's clear completely.

[JohnAldridge101]

Plug gaps are ok, needed a little closing up out of the box.
After winding engine over a few times and removing plugs, still look like new, no fouling or dampness, only oil on the thread from me when inserting them.

Drained float bowl, hooked battery to pump, primed, drained bowl again, compared the two container levels and practically the same, turned the key and just kept turning over

Accelerator pump works fine, good amount of fuel, constant "squirt"

[Andy M]

So fuel and spark look to be ok, as long as you're getting both on the key. Leaves timing and compression.

Have you done a compression test?

As for timing, you could still be 180 deg out. Change the leads to 4-2-1-3 to rule it out.

[DaveL485]

squeeze bottle spraying fuel down it, cough, splutter and fired up. Only while spraying fuel manually

Has anyone paid attention to this?

It's obviously a fuel delivery problem.

If the pump is running, then my next point of call would be checking flow out of the back of the regulator, and in to the carb.

If that is present then I would assume the float is stuck in the carb bowl and probably take the top off the carb to see if the bowl is empty.

[JohnAldridge101]

Has anyone paid attention to this?

It's obviously a fuel delivery problem.

If the pump is running, then my next point of call would be checking flow out of the back of the regulator, and in to the carb.

If that is present then I would assume the float is stuck in the carb bowl and probably take the top off the carb to see if the bowl is empty.


Drained the bowl, activated fuel pump, drained bowl again, same ammount of fuel drained.

I took the carb back off yesterday took it to work and cleaned everything again, blew through with an air line and all seems clear and clean, drained fuel tanks last night, will fill with fresh fuel tonight and new fuel filter and try again, the petrol has got to be 4-5 years old, im clutching at straws really, and getting fustrated.

Thanks for all the help guys

[Guybrush]

You need to have someone pop round with a spare fuel pump, fpr and carb :p
Test which one is failing you.

[Benjibrady]

If you cover postage buddy I have a fpr, carb & fuel pump you can borrow if needs be

[LiamR]

If you cover postage buddy I have a fpr, carb & fuel pump you can borrow if needs be

This is what the club is all about :agree::agree::agree::):agree::agree::agree:

[JohnAldridge101]

Wow what a difference fresh fuel makes, cranked for 30 seconds then fired up, runs really well.

One or two issues, idles a little high, haven't adjusted idle screw or idle jet yet.

coolant pipes to heater matrix are close to the exhaust down pipe

a little smokey, white smoke, cleared a lot in the 5 mins I had it running, will run for a little longer and see how she goes.

Will have this sorted in no time, next up a little body work.

Thanks to everyone who contributed

[JohnAldridge101]

If you cover postage buddy I have a fpr, carb & fuel pump you can borrow if needs be

Thanks for the offer buddy but I've finally got the bugger sorted :yeah:

[DaveL485]

the petrol has got to be 4-5 years old

And there we have it....maybe not so bad on an injected car but on a carb it's a killer.

[DaveL485]

Wow what a difference fresh fuel makes

Note to self: Read whole thread before responding to a post :laugh:

[Andy M]

Glad you got there in the end :agree:

1st rule of GTT ownership is to never lose faith :D

[TNT ANDY]

Good Jawb :agree:

[chris]

All is good now then well done mate :agree: