View Full Version : Re: Starter Motor
Mr Raider
02-12-2013, 14:53
Need a new starter for the 5 as the solenoid connection has melted and broken up, would prefer a valeo as they last forever, although seen a RTX starter on ebay for a good price, Lucas ones are around £20 more. Anyone have experience of the RTX starters? these are also available from Euro Car Parts :scratch:
i have one of those weird airy fairy uprated k-tec cgb ones,been on the raider for over 4 years now with a heatshield,no failures at all.
valeo are old school and prone to sticking like a tung to a nipple with super glue on it.
Mr Raider
08-12-2013, 21:49
Ah ok mate, who made your starter? bought a cheap & cheerful RTX unit, then thought better of it and swapped it for a Lucas starter the next day. I would have liked a new valeo if I could of got one as they last forever, my 11 turbo still has the original from 1986 with heatshield lol
not sure who makes them,brand new valeo would be nice,but these new units are very reliable.
Guybrush
10-12-2013, 16:59
wasn't the laguna starter the "uprated one" :D:coffee:
Isn't there an issue with the Laguna starters when being used on a GTT?
Isn't there an issue with the Laguna starters when being used on a GTT?
Apart from spinning over quicker, no problems as far as I am aware.
Well, doing a search brings up a number of threads. One with Mart saying to steer clear of Megane/Laguna type starters and one or two other members saying similar things.
Maybe it's something to do with the dowel location, maybe it's to do with number of teeth, maybe it's to do with the associated heat-shield, maybe it's something else I haven't listed, maybe it's a mixture of the aforementioned, maybe it's all of the aforementioned.
I'm not sure but if you're in the market for a new/reconditioned starter and are considering going with something that's not OE. Do some research on it first.
phase i 16 v turbo
10-12-2013, 17:40
From memory some had incorrect number of teeth?
Mr Raider
15-12-2013, 19:24
Went with the Lucas unit from Euro Car Parts about £75 exchange instead of the cheaper RTX unit from ECP thats non exchange,both specified for the gt turbo & c1j engine online as checks car registration :)
TNT ANDY
15-12-2013, 20:30
Laguna unit's don't like the radiant heat from the exhaust, so if you do fit one, make sure you have the downpipe wrapped and the heat shield in place.
Mr Raider
15-12-2013, 22:54
Pretty sure its not a laguna unit, probably have to take it off again to check! lol bought a starter heatshield so will pop that on soon ;)
It always makes me laugh when I hear the word "uprated" before starter motor. How can you have an unprated starter motor? It either starts the car or it doesn't! :D
Mr Raider
16-12-2013, 12:30
It always makes me laugh when I hear the word "uprated" before starter motor. How can you have an unprated starter motor? It either starts the car or it doesn't! :D
EXACTLY mate! aiiitt but it giv it anudder 15 BHP innit bruv ;) :laugh:
Mr Raider
16-12-2013, 22:08
The one I fitted to the raider yesterday is a lucas LRS00505, not sure what that means but it was on the lucas box from Euro Car Parts, seems a good starter, turns over quickly and smoothly, 2 year warranty as well :)
I recall somebody mentioning the so called uprated starter motors off the laguna had plastic internals?
Alluded to in the other thread :agree:
The one I fitted to the raider yesterday is a lucas LRS00505, not sure what that means but it was on the lucas box from Euro Car Parts, seems a good starter, turns over quickly and smoothly, 2 year warranty as well :)
That's the right one for the car rather than the laguna version.
Mr Raider
24-12-2013, 16:01
Ok so ive fitted new starter, dowels there etc and when the car starts it sounds like the engine is turning the starter motor over as its running, not crunching noises just the whirring of the starter :(.
Today Ive taken it off, checked it over put a battery on the starter and the solenoid pushes the cog as if to engage and turn the flywheel then shoots back when power taken away (key has stopped being turned). Any ideas why its doing this? dont want to run it for long like this and wreck the starter, could it be a relay? signal wire from ignition bad connection? :scratch:
It's supposed to do that, or am I misunderstanding.
ScottKinnear
24-12-2013, 16:11
I'm not sure on your problem mate, but I bought the rtx starter first and the holes match up but the top one sits the starter in wrong. Grounded the crap out of my fly wheel. Changed it for the Lucas one and there are no problems :)
Mr Raider
24-12-2013, 22:42
It's supposed to do that, or am I misunderstanding.
Well it starts engine fine,however i can hear the starter motor still whirring away say 20-30 seconds after ive released they key from start engine position,therefore engine is now turning starter motor over so its making a noise
Mr Raider
24-12-2013, 22:44
I'm not sure on your problem mate, but I bought the rtx starter first and the holes match up but the top one sits the starter in wrong. Grounded the crap out of my fly wheel. Changed it for the Lucas one and there are no problems :)
Oh no, I originally bought an RTX then next day took it back for a lucas, didnt even fit RTX heard they are pony lol
Well it starts engine fine,however i can hear the starter motor still whirring away say 20-30 seconds after ive released they key from start engine position,therefore engine is now turning starter motor over so its making a noise
Ok but you say the drive is retracting as it should, so how can the engine carry on turning the motor?
Lowiepete
25-12-2013, 01:19
Valeo Starter Motors (http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/starter-motor/renault-super-5-b-c40-1-4-turbo-120hp_v1995_g2.html) here...
With Season's Greetings,
Steve
Mr Raider
25-12-2013, 14:54
Ok but you say the drive is retracting as it should, so how can the engine carry on turning the motor?
Connected to a battery in garage and it retracts,not sure if it does it on the car however can hear it seems to be getting turned over by the engine.
Mr Raider
29-12-2013, 11:18
Still got the same problem,is the LRS00505 made for the gtt? could it be a wiring fault somewhere causing engine to turn starter over whilst engine running?:confused:
Start it up and take exciter wire off see if it stops the noise thats the best way
TNT ANDY
29-12-2013, 11:27
Still got the same problem,is the LRS00505 made for the gtt? could it be a wiring fault somewhere causing engine to turn starter over whilst engine running?:confused:
Need a bit of TNT buddy?
TNT Tricky Nicky
29-12-2013, 14:57
Is the key coming out of the starting position? Might be ignition barrel, just happened to be sticking now as you've been giving it more wellie due to the starter motor playing up before :coffee:
Mr Raider
29-12-2013, 21:56
Start it up and take exciter wire off see if it stops the noise thats the best way
Lol that thought did cross my mind ;)
Mr Raider
29-12-2013, 21:58
Need a bit of TNT buddy?
Yeah think so fella, Tuesday dayime inkeeping with TNT ;)
Mr Raider
29-12-2013, 22:00
Is the key coming out of the starting position? Might be ignition barrel, just happened to be sticking now as you've been giving it more wellie due to the starter motor playing up before :coffee:
As far as I know although could give it a turn back from starting postion :scratch: take barrel out and clean up? Starter relay playing up maybe?
TNT ANDY
30-12-2013, 10:43
Yeah think so fella, Tuesday dayime inkeeping with TNT ;)
I'm back in work bud, can havea butchers Friday night if you want.
Mr Raider
30-12-2013, 19:15
I'm back in work bud, can havea butchers Friday night if you want.
Thanks Andy, going to take another look tomorrow and see whats what :)
Mr Raider
31-12-2013, 16:07
Had another look at the starter today, not the best conditions for it! lol All back together, starter heatshield fitted, exhaust back on. I have now remotely connected the white starter wire, so the white wire from iginition is connected to a longer wire, and another spade put on the starter itself so that I can get it to start then disconect these wires to see if it is the ignition barrel. Anyways ive done this and I seem still to be hearing the starter being turned over by the engine with these wires i fitted today disconnected :scratch: :cry:
not sure who makes them,brand new valeo would be nice,but these new units are very reliable.
Got a price for a new valeo one yesterday 75 + vat
Mr Raider
05-01-2014, 22:46
Thanks mate, where was this from out of interest? Got another starter on the way so be good to get this one on and see how it is :)
My local motor factors but I'm from N Ireland.
Got a price for a new valeo one yesterday 75 + vat
cool,just make sure to fit the oe heat shield with it!
:D
Yea, got a new one. Cheers:)
Mr Raider
11-01-2014, 18:29
Ok,I bought another starter as the Lucas from Euro Car Parts seemed to be getting turned over by engine once started and making a strange noise. Fitted the other starter today, the gear that tuns flywheel appers not as exposed/sticking out compared to Lucas starter. Anyways all fitted,fire it up and ive stil got same noise that starter is being turned!!! flywheel appears ok although will have a closer look, whats causing this? electrical issue or damaged flywheel causing starter to not disengage? :cry:
Your not having much luck are you mate :confused:
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 19:30
If you have has multiple starters and the problem hasn't changed, that would suggest it's not the starter motor causing the issue...assuming its fitted right and the dowel is in place.
What makes you think it's the starter motor? Just a sound? Have you traced it with a stethoscope or similar?
Mr Raider
11-01-2014, 19:53
If you have has multiple starters and the problem hasn't changed, that would suggest it's not the starter motor causing the issue...assuming its fitted right and the dowel is in place.
What makes you think it's the starter motor? Just a sound? Have you traced it with a stethoscope or similar?
The old valeo starter was fine apart from when the solenoid went, Ive fitted 2 replacement starters and once started the engine the starter is whirring away even though key released and exciter wire is disconnected, dowel is in gearbox top right bolt hole as viewed from passenger wing, fitted correctly bolts nipped up etc. Positive wire with exciter on top solenoid terminal, negative on bottom solenoid terminal,exciter terminal on spade. You can hear starter still turning when engines running
DaveL485
11-01-2014, 21:20
Positive wire with exciter on top solenoid terminal, negative on bottom solenoid terminal,exciter terminal on spade. You can hear starter still turning when engines running
Lets make sure this bit is right: You should only have TWO connections from the car to the starter.
1) The exciter wire, which is a spade terminal to the back of the solenoid.
2) The main power feed from the battery +ve to the back of the solenoid, 13mm M8 nut.
The earth is through the casing/gearbox. You do not connect an earth lead.
There is also a connection from the main solenoid +ve in to the motor of the unit, but this is integral to the starter motor assembly. You should only connect one spade terminal and one M8/13mm nut ring terminal.
Top right image of the 3, you only connect to the top M8 nut. Don't touch the bottom one.
http://www.warmstrong.co.uk/media/uploads/cat-285/ta060000050_renault_starter_motor.jpg
NOTE: I refer to starter motor connections only. In many cases, like the 21, there is a lead from the same terminal on the starter main +ve to the Alternator. I cannot remember if this is the case on the 5.
car.crash
11-01-2014, 21:25
Ok,I bought another starter as the Lucas from Euro Car Parts seemed to be getting turned over by engine once started and making a strange noise. Fitted the other starter today, the gear that tuns flywheel appers not as exposed/sticking out compared to Lucas starter. Anyways all fitted,fire it up and ive stil got same noise that starter is being turned!!! flywheel appears ok although will have a closer look, whats causing this? electrical issue or damaged flywheel causing starter to not disengage? :cry:
Count the teeth on both starters, the uprated ones had a extra tooth, I had to swap the ring gear on a flywheel as the starter destroyed it. Seen it on a few engines
This was the new slim black one the was not on exchange opposed to the old fat one.
Mr Raider
11-01-2014, 21:36
Dave, thanks for that mate,i have however connected the exciter wire & also the wire with the exciter from connector of death to top solenoid connection and other wire with starter support bracket to bottom solenoif connection,both M8 nuts as per haynes. Have I misinterpreted this or got it wrong? lol
TNT Tricky Nicky
11-01-2014, 23:02
Dave, thanks for that mate,i have however connected the exciter wire & also the wire with the exciter from connector of death to top solenoid connection and other wire with starter support bracket to bottom solenoif connection,both M8 nuts as per haynes. Have I misinterpreted this or got it wrong? lol
Take a picture bud, i'm confused as to what you've put where. I read that as the alternator wiring is on the same connector as exciter? If so thats why, as soon as the engine is running the starter is being excited by the alternator wiring :scratch: is the battery warning light going out?
Spade connecter on top of starter = exciter
Battery lead + alternator wire = 13mm m8 nut
As daveL(485 these numbers are important) said
DaveL485
12-01-2014, 00:17
Take a picture bud, i'm confused as to what you've put where. I read that as the alternator wiring is on the same connector as exciter? If so thats why, as soon as the engine is running the starter is being excited by the alternator wiring :scratch: is the battery warning light going out?
Spade connecter on top of starter = exciter
Battery lead + alternator wire = 13mm m8 nut
+1, picture please.
As daveL(485 these numbers are important) said
:laugh::laugh::agree: you tit!
Mr Raider
12-01-2014, 10:48
Whoops! lol so i see what ive done, is this other wire thats in trunking with exciter for the alternator?This is the problem having not much time and removing original starter then fitting replacement over 3 weeks later:ashamed: :dearme:
Mr Raider
12-01-2014, 17:44
Just enough daylight to jack car up, get offside front wheel off and disconnect the connector I put on the solenoid to starter connection and move to the battery 12v positive connection on the solenoid instead and... it starts and runs perfectly with no starter whirring noise!!! Thanks for the help guys, much love
:yeah::burnrubber::burnrubber:
DaveL485
12-01-2014, 19:32
Just enough daylight to jack car up, get offside front wheel off and disconnect the connector I put on the solenoid to starter connection and move to the battery 12v positive connection on the solenoid instead and... it starts and runs perfectly with no starter whirring noise!!! Thanks for the help guys, much love
:yeah::burnrubber::burnrubber:
:agree: glad I could help.
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