wizards of 'ft

[Benjibrady]

Couple quick questions please guys;

1)To blank of the DV it am I right in thinking it should start like this

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1257.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1257.jpg.html)

And end like this

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1258.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1258.jpg.html)

2) My rev counter only seems to work above 3K Im not quite sure why but saw a vid on YouTube of someone with a conversion with the same problem, is this something that happens often and how can I fix it?

3) where abouts should the vaccumm for the ECU go?

4) Where abouts should I take the feed for my boost gaugenat the moment I have it on the throttle body When i rev the car up, the gauge on reads a vacuum so im trying to work out whether its in the wrong place or I have my pipework wrong.

Thanks as ever guys

[Adey aka Ewok]

That looks like an idle control valve to me? :confused: I don't know much about the b18 but should the dump valve be there to start with?

[Markey Mark (BD)]

1) Thats not the dv mate, thats pat of the idle control valve

The dv will be found on the boost pipe just off the turbo ;)

2) The rev gauge wire should really read below 3k unless you got a feed issue, interfeence or faulty clocks

3-4) both the ecu vac feed and the boost gauge can connect onto the outlets on the end of the inlet plenium, normally there are 3 on there (drivers side)

[jamesy12345]

^^^what he said.

The silver thing is the idle control valve, the black one is a non-return valve to prevent the boost escaping back to the turbo inlet hose.

When you up the boost the internals of the black valve can fail. I know you are talking about blanking them off but, just for info, if you are running about 1 barg of boost a good replacement for this and the dump valve in the turbo outlet hose is the VAG dump valve with part number 06A145710N....

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=19542&sid=b027ac8a41bc26bec9e69f9374220816

[SCHWARTZ]

Just remove the lot it will idle a bit higer when warm but that's about it.

[Benjibrady]

So no real concerns with the idle control valve then?

Any suggestions on what may be happening with the rev counter. It worked before the conversion and I've soldered it to the old three pin connector

[Markey Mark (BD)]

So no real concerns with the idle control valve then?

Any suggestions on what may be happening with the rev counter. It worked before the conversion and I've soldered it to the old three pin connector

You can use it with or without, i've found some cars ran ok without it some didn't. I kept it on my old van when i did the conversion but know Gary (schwartz) didn't have a reall issue without it

As for the rev gauge, maybe the soldered joint isn't a very good connection and causing you issues there possible or the connection on the ecu is poor too

[Alastair]

Would not fitting the Icv make it run rich? AFR were quite high in 11s but it ran sweet as a nut. (From cold) but as it warmed the AFR didn't lean off, perhaps it didn't get hot enough but we hadn't connected the fan so didn't want to chance it!

[Haz]

Or the idle control valve only lets air through that has already been measure by the afm so ratio won't change ;)

[Benjibrady]

Another question with the fueling.

Have driving the car a bit now, and cut and soldered up the loom. Car seems to still have the same problem. Late 12s early 13s off boost and then around 10 on boost. Now I'm only running actuator pressure atm which is around 8psi , do I just need to take it up until the fueling is right?

However having said that, would I still have my prominent hesitation as the ecu richens up the mixture?

[Benjibrady]

had another drive today, and im really struggling to make head or tail of this, the car is on the richer side of things somewhere between 12.8-13.5 of boost, drives well doesn't splutter etc. But as soon as she comes on boost as said before full scale richness and i can't work out why.
Currently im only running 8 psi on a T34, I dont know what the standard boost for the b18ft is but cant imagine its much more than that?
Injectors are standard, AFM hasnt been touched so im really struggling to see why its so rich,

Ive uploaded a stationary video (as it proved unsuccessful whilst driving) to sort of show the afrs. I appreciate the car isnt under load, but you get a reasonable idea of what the fueling is like across the rev range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sof2ZocYc5E

I could bleed of some of the pressure to the actuator but is this not just masking the problem?

:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:

[Nottswoody]

Is there any air leaks on the exchust giving false readings? Might be a place i woukd look bud. I wish i could help more but your ahead of me :)

[V Man]

I don't know much about these engines from a practical point of view but have one and need to get my head around them. Could it be that you have a much bigger turbo than standard ..... The ecu will be expecting a smaller t2 to spool pretty quickly so will adjust fueling for the forced induction at certain revs but seeing as you have a t3 it isn't going to be spooling so you have more fuel than air???

[Nottswoody]

Also perhaps check out the volvo forums they will know most things

[Benjibrady]

Nottswoody, i do have a leak on my exhaust but its between the downpipe and centre section after both lambdas so i couldnt see how it would cause a problem

V man you could be right with your though, but if you can imagine it plotted on a graph, after a say 1 or 2 seconds on boost would it not lean of once the ecu has corrected for the amount of air flow?

I stuck it on the 480 forums about an hour ago so will have to see if anyone can think of anything

[Nottswoody]

I had an air leak on my c1j and that sent the lamba crazy till I sealed it mate it's worth a try.. £2.30 gasket sealer works wonders :)

[TNT ANDY]

I currently have a leak on my exhaust which is before my lambda sensor and this also is playing havock with my AFR's.

I'm going to be relocating my lambda sensor with my new exhaust set-up to help minimise this type of problem.

[Benjibrady]

But if the exhaust is leaking after the lambdas where the gases have already been measured would it still make a difference?
Will definitely get the leaks sealed though certainly something to rule out

[V Man]

Yes. I would agree with you but it depends how much grunt the turbo is giving at 8 psi? Have you revved it quite hard and it made no difference?

[Benjibrady]

Yeah man done a few heavy duel carriage way runs and it doesn't really lean off. I'm lost for ideas

[V Man]

Yeah man done a few heavy duel carriage way runs and it doesn't really lean off. I'm lost for ideas

Can you just turn the boost up? Or is it standard ecu still?

[Benjibrady]

It is a standard ecu but has the scoff mod. Yeah can just raise the boost, but surely with efi the ecu should be capable of fueling for different levels of boost I.e between 5-15psi

[SCHWARTZ]

Run more boost.

[Haz]

Not read the whole thread. Are you adjusting the afm? What is the resistance reading? Is the turbo actually a t34? That will be laggy, poss 5k before it makes full boost.

[Haz]

Oh, this is over 2 threads, without a reply to my earlier comments. Std injectors aren't green, if they are bigger the afm will need turning down, if the anti tamper cover is still on the afm then it sounds like you haven't tried anything since the last comments/pm's??
So still. . . Turn the afm down ;)

[Benjibrady]

Oh, this is over 2 threads, without a reply to my earlier comments. Std injectors aren't green, if they are bigger the afm will need turning down, if the anti tamper cover is still on the afm then it sounds like you haven't tried anything since the last comments/pm's??
So still. . . Turn the afm down ;)

Apologies haz I thought I had, we checked the injectors, not green at all a sort of murky brown colour. Yeah it's definitely a t34 and can the the afm be turned down from standard?

[SCHWARTZ]

I would up the boost to about 14psi and see if that's any better.

[Haz]

Yeah orange/brown should be std injectors. Yeah the afm can be turned both ways. Use a multimeter on the outside pins on the ohms setting. Should adjust from 0-999 but drops off the scale before reaching both. It should be around 380 for std, up to 650 for boost increases. The adjustment alters the entire map so idle could end up rich to allow for good boost/revs ratio.
The click on the tps sensor, just as it closes and as the throttle opens, apparently moves the ecu to a set point on the map which fuelling is then corrected by the icv. If the tps sensor is unplugged you also loose the accelerator pump effect and will run rich.
If its a later lambda ecu, not having the probe will also make it run a tad rich.
How is the fuel system plumbed up? If there are any restrictions in the return line that would up fuel pressure, as would a dented fpr, or sticking injectors.
Have you pressure tested the boost circuit? Leaks will affect the fuel ratio, dv's blow off metered air, so goes rich while it is open.
Are the spark plugs std and new too, with correct gap?
I do think the t34 will be far too big, I have one on the 21, 2ltr 8v and it kinda responds like my old b18ft with the t28 with a .82 rear housing so unless your going for 300bhp, 7500+ revs, a billet cam and standalone then it will be miles off the std map.

[Benjibrady]

Yeah orange/brown should be std injectors. Yeah the afm can be turned both ways. Use a multimeter on the outside pins on the ohms setting. Should adjust from 0-999 but drops off the scale before reaching both. It should be around 380 for std, up to 650 for boost increases. The adjustment alters the entire map so idle could end up rich to allow for good boost/revs ratio.
The click on the tps sensor, just as it closes and as the throttle opens, apparently moves the ecu to a set point on the map which fuelling is then corrected by the icv. If the tps sensor is unplugged you also loose the accelerator pump effect and will run rich.
If its a later lambda ecu, not having the probe will also make it run a tad rich.
How is the fuel system plumbed up? If there are any restrictions in the return line that would up fuel pressure, as would a dented fpr, or sticking injectors.
Have you pressure tested the boost circuit? Leaks will affect the fuel ratio, dv's blow off metered air, so goes rich while it is open.
Are the spark plugs std and new too, with correct gap?
I do think the t34 will be far too big, I have one on the 21, 2ltr 8v and it kinda responds like my old b18ft with the t28 with a .82 rear housing so unless your going for 300bhp, 7500+ revs, a billet cam and standalone then it will be miles off the std map.

Yeah I have the later lambda ecu. The probe is present so unless the lambda sensor is faulty that hopefully shouldn't be a problem. Haven't tried adjust the afm down yet. I do have a multimeter so could take the ohmage down. What increments should I go down in?
Nah unfortunately I don't have any way of pressure testing the boost system. Could use some mk1 fairy liquid to try and find any. No blow off valves or the such.
Yeah new spark plugs. Haven't checked the gaps on them yet.
The return line was fine before the engine conversion with a small amount of armoured hosing just connect to the fuel rail. Could be sticky injectors or a faulty NRV but is he doesn't get really rich until it comes on boost which would possibly rule that out.
It has a .48 rear housing. Could well be really laggy, but I don't want to write it off until I've had a chance to try it. If I'm totally honest I quite like turbo lag, if I want to go really fast I'll take the clio, but I like the 'through back' feeling of turbo lag. I could well get sick of it and go back to a t25 but unfortunately like everything it comes down to money

[Haz]

just see what the resistance of the afm for starters, if its around std the assume the problem is elsewhere, but turning it down may be an option.
if you could fit an inline fuel gauge just before the rail that would rule that out too (i presume you did remove the gtt fuel reg, some have forgotten).
leaks do make a massive problem with the afm, and sometimes the positioning of it to, i'll have a nose through at you engine bay pics.
if the turbo only has a .48 shouldn't be too bad, like a std cossie blower, what size is the inlet? i prefer a bit of lag too but you dont want the 2k powerband too high, no point making full boost at 5500 when the limiter is at 6200, but yeah give it try.

[Benjibrady]

just see what the resistance of the afm for starters, if its around std the assume the problem is elsewhere, but turning it down may be an option.
if you could fit an inline fuel gauge just before the rail that would rule that out too (i presume you did remove the gtt fuel reg, some have forgotten).
leaks do make a massive problem with the afm, and sometimes the positioning of it to, i'll have a nose through at you engine bay pics.
if the turbo only has a .48 shouldn't be too bad, like a std cossie blower, what size is the inlet? i prefer a bit of lag too but you dont want the 2k powerband too high, no point making full boost at 5500 when the limiter is at 6200, but yeah give it try.

Tbh mate I've not the foggiest about the inlet size. Was sold to me as a standard cosworth turbo. And yeah I do get what you mean. Ideally want to be making full boost around 3.5k
Yeah I've definitely taken off the standard fpr as that's where I joined my braided hoses to. I'm not sure that I have a photo uploaded of where the afm is, unfortunately, due to my fannymould the turbo seats right over the top of the gearbox leaving just enough room to fit 90 silicon hose. - afm - 90 silicone air fiilter. All tucked behind the light.
Haven't got a fuel pressure gauge but maybe able to source one.

As a though. Could I take the ohmage of the afm down slightly and raise the boost to even out driving?

[SCHWARTZ]

You need to check you're fuel pressure if you're using an after maker fpr. You want 3bar withought the engine running but the pump going. If using a rising rate one this just caused problems for me. Upping the boost will lean out the fueling on boost and no where else. Adjusting the afm moves The fuel map along the Rev range bit, set to 650 o's things from there.

[Benjibrady]

Schwartz I'm using the standard fpr. Wasn't away that was how it worked adjusting the afm. It could do with being a touch more lean off boost so think I have a plan

[SCHWARTZ]

Turn the brass screw in the afm anti clockwise that will lean out the fueling a bit.

[Benjibrady]

Developed an interesting new problem,

Drove the car literally 2 mins the other day and all was fine, turned it off, when turn it back on, and it just wouldn't go. Turning over nicely, but wouldn't start.

Pushed it into the garage and swang through all the electrics and everything seemed fine, after a while pulled the plugs out to find them very black & wet. Cleaned them up, put them back in and tried again. After a long time off turning the car over, it just about got go, and for the first 10-15 seconds was misfiring horrendously. Yet after revving above 3k all was well and car ticked over sweet as a nut.


Fast forward to today. Exactly the same scenario, wouldn't start, yadda yadda yadda, cleaned the plugs and a little while later just about got it going.
Did away with the whole idle control system, which leaned the fuelling off on tick over very nicely, so now for the first time, afr's are around 16 on tick over. Yet turned it off, went to turn it back on again and it was the same story.

Struggling to diagnose this one, al thinks it could be a sticky diaphragm inside the fpr? Stuck for ideas on this one

[Haz]

Have you turned down the afm?

[Haz]

Where are the pics of your engine layout ?

[Benjibrady]

Yeah did have a fiddle with the afm which has made the afr's on Tick over much nicer (Didn't make any difference with all the idle control set up in)

The car started playing up before I adjusted it though

Unfortunately I don't have any recent pictures of the engine can grab one tomorrow. What is it you want to know?

[Haz]

K, so what were the afm readings to start with and now?
What afr's are you getting? The plugs are usually pretty clean on std setup's, what gap are they set to?
Is it only rich on boost still or everywhere?

[Haz]

Get a few pics, full overhead shot for general layout, boost run, fuel set up.

[Benjibrady]

K, so what were the afm readings to start with and now?
What afr's are you getting? The plugs are usually pretty clean on std setup's, what gap are they set to?
Is it only rich on boost still or everywhere?



I didn't do it by resistance wound it anti clockwise until afr's were where I wanted them. Didn't measure it as standard which was looking back an error.

Having set plug gaps as I bought the plugs, put them in and everything was sound. This literally started doing this after one journey.

Still rich everywhere but tick over now. Have fitted a bleed valve so that when this issue is sorted I can lean the fueling off on boost.


Will grab some upto date photos tomorrow, struggling to work this one out as fuel leaks, boost leaks etc should all cause it to lean of not go mega rich.

[Haz]

Just measure the resistance of afm, it may give an idea of how far out things are.
Plug gaps set to std? .8 is good. But for them to be fouled it must be really rich.
Sometimes simple things can be over looked when trying to fault find over the net, pics can help, still not as good as seeing the car though

[Benjibrady]

Just measure the resistance of afm, it may give an idea of how far out things are.
Plug gaps set to std? .8 is good. But for them to be fouled it must be really rich.
Sometimes simple things can be over looked when trying to fault find over the net, pics can help, still not as good as seeing the car though

Yeah I'll swing through it tomorrow and post up what it is.

Yeah I haven't touched plug gaps they are exactly how they came out of the box

And yeah I fully understand it's really hard over the net. It's really confusing. I thought that if it was ran for 5 minutes it should clear all the chambers out but it made no different. Makes me wonder if it's dumping a load of fuel in as I turn it off, or timing is out?

[Benjibrady]

here are some photos of the engine bay, looks really really bad in the photos but it isn't so bad in real life.

The resistance of the arm came back as 131 ohms


http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1403.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1403.jpg.html)

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1404.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1404.jpg.html)

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1405.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1405.jpg.html)

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1406.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1406.jpg.html)

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1407.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1407.jpg.html)

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1410.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1410.jpg.html)

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1415.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1415.jpg.html)

In this one you can just about make out the injector, I'm pretty sure its standard.

This was the state of one of the plugs

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/enjibenji112/IMG_1402.jpg (http://s893.photobucket.com/user/enjibenji112/media/IMG_1402.jpg.html)

What did happen this evening when i went to start it is for whatever reason the ecu didn't turn the fuel pump over, even when moving the key back from the start position, I shorted across the ecu (reading nottswoodys' thread i knew this isn't a good idea but wanted to check my wiring) and sure enough the pump turned over, yet the car still didn't start. Has me thinking either the ECU is faulty or the TDC sensor?

Recently I've had a problem with a stick start motor, could this have done anything to the flywheel which has caused it to mess up the timing.

[Haz]

Just nosing through the pics but on my phone so not great.
Afm reading is very low, std is around 380.
Get a shorter king lead and route it coil, air filter, turbo to cooler hose, dizzy. Fit yours other way round with 90 on the coil. Make sure it's away from tdc lead too.
Tidy the wires in the pink block, tape seperate or snip short. Careful that bit of loom is well clear of the wipers.
How's the oil breather setup done as that plug looks oily too. I'd be surprised if they run like that. Bin them and buy some standard rating champion single electrode plug.
In pic 6 that braided, from fuel reg, looped and into a black pipe. Why is it looped, what's the black pipe, existing gt? You got a better pic of that area? Or is it black pipe on start of rail, just curves and goes braided under the strut brace and the return goes straight down?
Sounds like your having same issues now, check same as nottswoddy's thread, start with tdc and power in the relevant places on the loom.

[Benjibrady]

Just nosing through the pics but on my phone so not great.
Afm reading is very low, std is around 380.
Get a shorter king lead and route it coil, air filter, turbo to cooler hose, dizzy. Fit yours other way round with 90 on the coil. Make sure it's away from tdc lead too.
Tidy the wires in the pink block, tape seperate or snip short. Careful that bit of loom is well clear of the wipers.
How's the oil breather setup done as that plug looks oily too. I'd be surprised if they run like that. Bin them and buy some standard rating champion single electrode plug.
In pic 6 that braided, from fuel reg, looped and into a black pipe. Why is it looped, what's the black pipe, existing gt? You got a better pic of that area? Or is it black pipe on start of rail, just curves and goes braided under the strut brace and the return goes straight down?
Sounds like your having same issues now, check same as nottswoddy's thread, start with tdc and power in the relevant places on the loom.

Yeah had to turn arm right down to get it to lean of on tick over, still very rich everywhere else in the rev range.
Ill order a shorter king lead, when you say 90 on the coil, do you mean so that the coil is upright?

Don't have a breather on the oil breather at the moment, is on the list of jobs, but wasn't aware it could cause much of a problem.

Only reason I went with those plugs was due to the fact they were recommended by eurocarparts, but yeah ill go back to single electrode plugs.

the braided fuel hose was larger than the standard hose so made up an adapter so that it would fit to the L shape pipe on the end of the fuel rail.

Is bizzarly very similar to notes' have been keeping an eye on his as well. Was going to buy myself a new tdc sensor but as it came to no avail for notts' i haven't bothered.

[Haz]

Rich everywhere would suggest no boost leaks. Upped fuel pressure, restriction in the lines, faulty fpr or injectors. Not much else it can be if everything else is std.
King lead doesn't have to be upright just swapping it round would suit the route better.
Most places try to sell race plugs, maybe not, but Volvo b18ft should be listed same as Renault f2n's,
Just check through same items as on the other thread before spending out on bits, as I said to him too I'm kinda at the point where I can't do anymore on here as ive said all i'd test. could just be a simple thing that's easier to notice at the car, but not the first time you do the conversion, which may not even be on the Volvo side of things.

[Benjibrady]

Rich everywhere would suggest no boost leaks. Upped fuel pressure, restriction in the lines, faulty fpr or injectors. Not much else it can be if everything else is std.
King lead doesn't have to be upright just swapping it round would suit the route better.
Most places try to sell race plugs, maybe not, but Volvo b18ft should be listed same as Renault f2n's,
Just check through same items as on the other thread before spending out on bits, as I said to him too I'm kinda at the point where I can't do anymore on here as ive said all i'd test. could just be a simple thing that's easier to notice at the car, but not the first time you do the conversion, which may not even be on the Volvo side of things.

I've bought a second hand fpr so I'm going to fit it and see if it makes any difference. Short of that I'm stuck unless it's a timing issue.

If I'm totally honest I sometimes struggle to see where the extra money in plugs goes. I know you get different heat ratings but a spark is a spark at the end of the day. I'll try a set of single electrode.

I'll try everything that is on notts page when I get a second on sunday. Thanks very much for you help haz has given me some things to try.

[Alastair]

Haz, thanks for the reply. I've been trying to help a Ben out as I get 5 mins too.

My thoughts were same as yours ref FPR, return to tank etc.

We will get a guage on it and have a look at the pressure...

I'm no expert on b18ft, more accustomed to c1j....!

[Haz]

No probs, just not alot more I can suggest from here, it's more about checking that things are as they should.
On one conversion a campus tank was used which the lift pump ports are smaller, looked fine to the owner but of course isn't. Not saying its that but I think this one is more a mechanical fault.

[Benjibrady]

I've absolutely no idea what's wrong with it. Haven't touched the car for a month as I've had some annual leave.

Anyway Opened the ecu to see if I could see/smell any signs of burning. Couldn't see anything so whipped it back on. Car started first click!

No idea what's wrong with it. I dread to say it but I wonder if I didn't have the connector plugged in properly seems unlikely but I don't know what else it could be.

Have got a good deal of ms1v3 & edis 4 fitted for £300 by a mate so seems silly not to bite his hands off for it. Does anyone know what a scoff modded ecu and jetronic is worth?

[B18ftMOJO5]

Great stuff so it was like any computer problem....lol switch off and restart works.;)

[Nottswoody]

Wish mine was so bloody easy.. Well done bud :)

[Benjibrady]

It has literally baffled me. All the misfiring, poor starting etc has gone. Even took it out for a drive (I forgot I'd putbleed valve on it! Hit the a38 expected 8 psi not 22! Pants well and truely shat )

Notts keep going with it mate' you'll get there

[Nottswoody]

Iv started chopping wires :eek: what's the worse that can happen :) it won't beat me il have a go as I'm not paying £100+ for a new loom if this don't work il pay 59p for a box a matches

[Benjibrady]

A mate and I went through mine and did the same. Pretty dull and painful taking all the leccy tape off but did look a lot smarter once It was all done

[Nottswoody]

Have you cut through the thick black ones? They seem to contain two/three other wires.. Done the rest and it's still the same just the thick black ones todo now

[Benjibrady]

I don't recall any thick black ones mate. I literally now have the wiring to each sensor, earths and loom live. I don't remember any thing else

[Nottswoody]

I don't recall any thick black ones mate. I literally now have the wiring to each sensor, earths and loom live. I don't remember any thing else

Iv chopped one black and it contains a black and a yellow I just joined them up an it's still the same :brickwall: il keep going for now.. Dam thing