JC5 final drive ratios?

[Andrew Cooke]

anyone got a list of which standard final drives are available?

I know of 4.07, 3.89, and 3.29.

Looking for something for the Twingo, anything between 3.29 and 3.89? I don't think I'm brave enough to go 3.29, but might...

[Andrew Cooke]

found an old list, but it seems to predate clio 172s so there may be others

http://www.getflat.co.uk/phcdownload/upload/manuals/clio172/MRBVJBJC.pdf

so that makes 4 final drives:

17/56 3.29
15/58 3.87
15/56 3.73
15/61 4.07

[Andrew Cooke]

found an old list, but it seems to predate clio 172s so there may be others

http://www.getflat.co.uk/phcdownload/upload/manuals/clio172/MRBVJBJC.pdf

so that makes 4 final drives:

17/56 3.29
15/58 3.87
15/56 3.73
15/61 4.07

found another one 3.56.... that's probably the lot.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

CB0M/phase 1 172 has a 3.86.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

A phase 2 172 has a 4.07.

[Andrew Cooke]

CB0M/phase 1 172 has a 3.86.

yep, that's the 15/58

I'm thinking that standard GTT has a 3.73, weighs about the same as the Twingo and has similar OD tyres. With a 2L engine and turbo it should pull something taller comfortably. There is no advantage in top speed going taller than the 3.73, and for best performance that's probably the way to go, but cruising will be better with a lower ratio.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Would a deisel gearbox from say a scenic 1.9 dci work better with a boosted engine?
Very long stacked ratios ideal for boosted lumps and long final, but twingo lighter and with smaller wheels?

[Andrew Cooke]

I'm not sure. My thought is that the basic characteristic of the boosted 172 will be like the 172, but a 3L version of it. I think it'll like the standard rev drops when 'going for it'.

The diesel box has a lower first and second than the 172 box, the rest aren't that much different.

I think first in the diesel is 15.2 overall, and in the 172 12.5, so the diesel will have a lower first than a standard 172. Whereas if I use the diesel final drive and 172 gears that becomes more like 10.1, so a chunk taller than the 172, but with smaller wheels, less weight, and more torque....

btw, the standard 2nd in the 172 is 7.6, so a 172 box with diesel final drive will come in about mid way between the standard 1st and 2nd.

[Tutuur]

I had a dci 82 gearbox on my 2.0turbo 9 before i swapped for a 02m. Loved the ratio's!

Here you go:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee490/tutuur/renault%209%20F7R/71BF9EC3-4E9B-4FD1-9D8B-D6B9E8E04A55-1482-0000044BDAFAE750.jpg

This was with approx 250bhp and a 950kg car so i reckon it'll be great for the twingo.

[Andrew Cooke]

I had a dci 82 gearbox on my 2.0turbo 9 before i swapped for a 02m. Loved the ratio's!

Here you go:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee490/tutuur/renault%209%20F7R/71BF9EC3-4E9B-4FD1-9D8B-D6B9E8E04A55-1482-0000044BDAFAE750.jpg

This was with approx 250bhp and a 950kg car so i reckon it'll be great for the twingo.

was first a bit of a comedy gear?

[Andrew Cooke]

I'm struggling to find the diff I want, I'll probably have to buy a whole gearbox to get it.

I'm looking for one of the following if you have one lying around, or know where to find one...

In order of preference (all JC5):

3.56 (16/57)
106 (megane 2L IDE 2000 - one on Ebay)
126 (Kangoo)


3.29 (17/56)
002 (19 TD)
035
052 (megane TD)
107 (megane 1.9 dci 102 ~2002)
128 (clio1.5 DCI 80 2001)
138 (megane dci)
140 (clio 1.5 DCI)
144


3.73 (15/56)
005 (laguna diesel ~1996)
036 (laguna 2.2td)
058 (scenic Td ~1996)
067 (scenic 1.9td)
103 (ditto)
109 (ditto)
113 (ditto)

no guarantees on the models and the same box could be in other cars.

[Tutuur]

No comedy gear at all mate, mind you the petrol gearbox doesn't have a longer 1st too. First gear sucks anyway with 300bhp!

[Alastair]

Are you putting a slipper diff in it Andrew?

I have a load of tables for all the early jb and some jc boxes... But I think you sent me the link in the first place!

Let me know if you need it?

Be brave and go for a low final drive, makes 4th interesting lol!

[Andrew Cooke]

Yep, the Gripper is going in, but it's turning into an epic... kerching...

I've found some lists on line, although they don't always agree.. Sadly the list you have is from 1997, so doesn't cover anything after JC5-079, or is that wrong?

I think the 3.56 will be grand, it'll drop the revs at 70 from 3170 to 2770

[Andrew Cooke]

if my sums are right the 3.56 should give reasonable traction in 3rd, whereas the 4.07 will be a bit sketchy..

poor mans traction control, stick it in 3rd and boot it :laugh:

3rd should be good for 100mph

[SP33DY]

Try Glen Hi5 as he ended up with my old JC5 128 gearbox. He only wanted the casing but I'd stripped 3rd so just gave him the lot. He might still have the innards lying around.

[Tutuur]

That has a 3.29 fd

[Alastair]

if my sums are right the 3.56 should give reasonable traction in 3rd, whereas the 4.07 will be a bit sketchy..

poor mans traction control, stick it in 3rd and boot it :laugh:

3rd should be good for 100mph

That's what I do! Lol although I've gone for a 4.xx and slicks...! I don't need much more than 120 flat out on stage! Try and find a jb3 068... They were the best ratios I could find but getting the box is tricky!

[Andrew Cooke]

I bought the JC5 106 off ebay for it's final drive, I hope it's Ok....

[Andrew Cooke]

good news, the ebay box did indeed have a 16/57 final drive and it's now on it's way to gripper where hopefully it will be joined to the diff :)

[Alastair]

good news, the ebay box did indeed have a 16/57 final drive and it's now on it's way to gripper where hopefully it will be joined to the diff :)


I've got a gripper with a 4.2 and 062 ratios, from a Megane, long first and close up to a fairly long final drive. The other box is a Gtt one with a quaife and a few stregnthening mods. Love the quaife the gripper is a bit snatchy...

[Andrew Cooke]

do you know how your gripper is set up?

It's a tricky thing with a plate diff, there is so much that can be adjusted, ramp angles, preload, and number of plates, plus using friction modifiers in the oil that I doubt 2 are the same.

I can't remember how mine was set up before, I know it had a fair bit of preload (although I now think I wanted more), I assume all the plates were active. I hated it in my 5, coming from a spool I found corner entry inconsistent, so I assume this was the diff unlocking. The spool is a rough tool, but it's consistent.

I suspect it'll come back in a 1.5way form with less preload and working plates, I do wonder if it might be easier to drive if it was 1 way. I liked the spool under braking, it stopped me locking the inside front, but on the road I won't be driving like that and only really need the extra drive out of the corners.

[Matt Cole]

Im hoping to nab the diff out of an R26 and use it in my 225 box. I hoping the standard 225 ratios will work well in the gtt.

[Andrew Cooke]

Im hoping to nab the diff out of an R26 and use it in my 225 box. I hoping the standard 225 ratios will work well in the gtt.

do you know anything about that diff and ratios?

[Tutuur]

Won't work in a jc5 and also the gearbox won't fit the older style engine blocks

[Andrew Cooke]

Won't work in a jc5 and also the gearbox won't fit the older style engine blocks

Matt has that covered...

looks like the diff is one of these:

http://www.gkn.com/driveline/our-solutions/trans-axle-solutions/limited-slip-and-locking-differentials/Documents/datasheets/Helical-engl.pdf

so similar to a quaife.

[Andrew Cooke]

Im hoping to nab the diff out of an R26 and use it in my 225 box. I hoping the standard 225 ratios will work well in the gtt.

I think the R26 uses the ND0-020 box, if so the ratios are on page 5

http://getflat.co.uk/6034A.pdf

I don't know what's in the 225, you should be able to confirm if it uses the same ratios.

it lists the following for the r26:

3.15/1.94/1.39/1.05/0.81/0.67 F/D 4.07

a 172 box (jc5-129) has

3.09/1.86/1.32/1.03/0.79 F/D 4.07

so the first 5 gears are slightly shorter than the 172 box, and 6th is a nice extra gear.

to make 5th in a 172 the same as 6th in the R26 box you'd need a 3.45 final drive, so half way between the 3.56 I'm getting and the 3.29 of the diesel.

assuming you rev to 6500 in each gear the rev drops are:

------172 -R26
1-2 2581 2493
2-3 1891 1844
3-4 1436 1574
4-5 1481 1515
5-6 --------1092

[SP33DY]

I ended up pulling my R26 box apart and dropping the diff in a brand new ND0-001 diesel gearbox, the more relaxed ratios should work well with what I've got planned and besides I found the old diesel JC5 - 128 had the perfect ratios when I was at 340-375bhp.

Obviously time will tell :D

[Alastair]

do you know how your gripper is set up?

It's a tricky thing with a plate diff, there is so much that can be adjusted, ramp angles, preload, and number of plates, plus using friction modifiers in the oil that I doubt 2 are the same.

I can't remember how mine was set up before, I know it had a fair bit of preload (although I now think I wanted more), I assume all the plates were active. I hated it in my 5, coming from a spool I found corner entry inconsistent, so I assume this was the diff unlocking. The spool is a rough tool, but it's consistent.

I suspect it'll come back in a 1.5way form with less preload and working plates, I do wonder if it might be easier to drive if it was 1 way. I liked the spool under braking, it stopped me locking the inside front, but on the road I won't be driving like that and only really need the extra drive out of the corners.

It's got 4 pressure and 4 friction each side and savage ramps, it makes a lower power car savagely quick with the 4.2, the Megane engine at 176bhp kept up (nearly) (particularly on the twisties with a 240bhp Gtt on EFi but you really have to work the box...!

Why didn't you go for the quaife on a road car? I really rate them as they are so smooth?

[Andrew Cooke]

Why didn't you go for the quaife on a road car? I really rate them as they are so smooth?

I already had the gripper.

[Andrew Cooke]

I ended up pulling my R26 box apart and dropping the diff in a brand new ND0-001 diesel gearbox, the more relaxed ratios should work well with what I've got planned and besides I found the old diesel JC5 - 128 had the perfect ratios when I was at 340-375bhp.

Obviously time will tell :D

did you use the final drive from the R26, or the diesel?

[SP33DY]

From the Diesel, but if it's horrendous I've still got the R26 one to swap. It's massively overgeared in 6th, 200mph+ :D

[Andrew Cooke]

From the Diesel, but if it's horrendous I've still got the R26 one to swap. It's massively overgeared in 6th, 200mph+ :D

indeed, your 4th is about the same as a standard clio sport top, and your top is almost 60% taller :wasntme:

Overall the ratios look similar to your JC5-128 box 1-5, with the benefit of an even taller 6th. :agree:

[SP33DY]

indeed, your 4th is about the same as a standard clio sport top, and your top is almost 60% taller :wasntme:

Overall the ratios look similar to your JC5-128 box 1-5, with the benefit of an even taller 6th. :agree:

Just think of the economy :laugh:

[Matt Cole]

I ended up pulling my R26 box apart and dropping the diff in a brand new ND0-001 diesel gearbox, the more relaxed ratios should work well with what I've got planned and besides I found the old diesel JC5 - 128 had the perfect ratios when I was at 340-375bhp.

Obviously time will tell :D

Steve, your an utter tosser!:D I was looking at pulling the gear set from the diesel NDO as fitted to the 175 and Later Lagunas because as you say, 1-4 are short, which i guess suits the heavy 225/R26. Missed out on the podium with that one!:cool: Also the NDO 225 ratios are very similar to the PK box as used in the 197/200 i think? which has awful ratios for a medium weighted hatch.

Andy, interesting info, i got so far reaserching and gave up as im still some way from worrying about gear ratios!:cry:

[SP33DY]

Matt, I thought the clio 197/200 used s tl4 gearbox?

[Andrew Cooke]

megane is certainly PK4

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.renault.com%2Fdownload%2Fme dia%2Fspecialfile%2F31645_1_5.aspx&ei=BUaBUrfeL9CBhAfZhYDQCQ&usg=AFQjCNEjg9RlNZZKpYHSPAuGznJ_cPXTKw&bvm=bv.56146854,d.ZG4&cad=rja

must be an easier way :laugh:

[Matt Cole]

Matt, I thought the clio 197/200 used s tl4 gearbox?

Your most likely right although I have seen reference to the first gen 197 having a Pk thing. Not that I would ever entertain a PK box. Utter crap they are. ...:crap:

[Matt Cole]

megane is certainly PK4

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.renault.com%2Fdownload%2Fme dia%2Fspecialfile%2F31645_1_5.aspx&ei=BUaBUrfeL9CBhAfZhYDQCQ&usg=AFQjCNEjg9RlNZZKpYHSPAuGznJ_cPXTKw&bvm=bv.56146854,d.ZG4&cad=rja

must be an easier way :laugh:

Andy. Your right. I guess its a suck it and see. Hopefully driveable:D