View Full Version : What next, elec help
fishersaulgt
31-12-2008, 16:50
First post!
it started yesterday like always, ran the battery dead last night and now after fully charging it and checking its full it won't start or even turn over! The ignition dash Does not light up like usualy, no lights come on except when I turn my lights on.. there is power to everything, cd, lights. It's like a flat bat but it defnatly isn't!?
most normal car batterys will only re-charge about 3 times from a complete dis-charge,..before they are fooked,...so i was told..:scratch:, thats why i went for 2 stingers...they can be re-charged upto 350 times from a complete dis-charge...:)
fishersaulgt
31-12-2008, 16:58
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
it's not my batt I have tryed it in a different car, something points to ignition to me!
check all the terminals are tight, you could also try tapping the starter,....maybe?
fishersaulgt
31-12-2008, 17:08
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
checked them first!! Why arnt my ignition lights coming up on the dash?
Have you checked the fuses?
welcome to the boards btw :)
I guess you have both live wires bolted upto the battery (thick starter lead and thinner red lead going off to the cabin). I suppose you must if the stereo etc is working.
from that red wire it first goes to a big heavy connector behind the heater controls, mid way along the dash. from there it goes to the barrell.
fetch the plastic cowling off from below the steering wheel (torx screws) and you'll see that the barrell has 4 wires: thick red, white and 2 yellow wires.
you should have 12v on the red wire at all times. this comes from the battery. the white wire should have 12v on it while you turn the key to crank. this goes to the starter. the 2 yellow wires are the ignition "on" states, with the key fully on as if the engine was running there should be 12v on each of those too.
if you are missing 12v on any of the wires after doing the tests above then the barrell has got a fault. :)
fishersaulgt
31-12-2008, 18:26
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
cheers, ye checked, the starter isn't turning over I can't hear the fuel pump either! But everything apart from ignition and starting works, windows, lcks, ect
You wont hear the fuel pump as this only works when you crank the engine over
fishersaulgt
31-12-2008, 18:34
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Will check them in morning, one thing I forgot to mention, just trust me when I say my batt cables are tite.. When I flick the key to the starting pos all radio, lights,, power goes till I return to just ignition!?
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Will check them in morning, one thing I forgot to mention, just trust me when I say my batt cables are tite.. When I flick the key to the starting pos all radio, lights,, power goes till I return to just ignition!?
it does sound like the barrell.
bones660
31-12-2008, 20:58
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
it's not the barrel switch . [ if your sterio works ] i had this problem on a clio few weeks back . she had a new battery fitted . worked fine . then it just cut out . turned out to be the battery terminals corroded . cleaned them up, refitted them hey presto . sprung into life . point is . just double check the battery terminals are clean, ESPECIALLY WERE THEY CONNECT TO THE BATTERY TERMINALS THEM SELFS , ALSO CHECK THE BATTERY EARTH LEAD IS NOT CORRODED AT THE END WERE IT CONNECTS TO THE CAR BODY . FINALLY HAVE THE BATTERY DROP TESTED [ IF IT'S NOT NEW ] . MIGHT HAVE 12VOLTS SHOWING ON A TESTER . BUT THE AMPERAGE MAY NOT BE THERE . IE BURNT OUT CELL . HOPE YOU HAVE SOME JOY . :agree:
Woznaldo
31-12-2008, 21:58
When you're at 'ignition' do your electric windows work? Assuming you have them?
bones660
31-12-2008, 22:11
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
When you're at 'ignition' do your electric windows work? Assuming you have them?
cheers, ye checked, the starter isn't turning over I can't hear the fuel pump either! But everything apart from ignition and starting works,WINDOWS, LCKS, ETC
i only hear the fuel pump after i have cranked the car over..:scratch:, i dont hear it when i just turn the ignition on....is this right:confused:? on other cars in the past, i usually hear it when i turn the ignition on...:smokin:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
it's not the barrel switch . [ if your sterio works ] i had this problem on a clio few weeks back . she had a new battery fitted . worked fine . then it just cut out . turned out to be the battery terminals corroded . cleaned them up, refitted them hey presto . sprung into life . point is . just double check the battery terminals are clean, ESPECIALLY WERE THEY CONNECT TO THE BATTERY TERMINALS THEM SELFS , ALSO CHECK THE BATTERY EARTH LEAD IS NOT CORRODED AT THE END WERE IT CONNECTS TO THE CAR BODY . FINALLY HAVE THE BATTERY DROP TESTED [ IF IT'S NOT NEW ] . MIGHT HAVE 12VOLTS SHOWING ON A TESTER . BUT THE AMPERAGE MAY NOT BE THERE . IE BURNT OUT CELL . HOPE YOU HAVE SOME JOY . :agree:
"it is not the barrell switch" - excuse me for thinking I might know something about auto elecs :rolleyes: It's only my job ;) you are telling me that because the stereo works the barrell must be fine ? wrong. can you explain how that tells you if both ignition output's are OK (since there are 2 seperate yellow wires) and how it tells you that the starter switch (white wire) is also fine ? there is more than 1 set of switch contacts in a barrell.
i only hear the fuel pump after i have cranked the car over..:scratch:, i dont hear it when i just turn the ignition on....is this right:confused:? on other cars in the past, i usually hear it when i turn the ignition on...:smokin:
your other car's have been efi I guess, the gtt doesn't prime the pump when you switch the ignition on :)
your other car's have been efi I guess, the gtt doesn't prime the pump when you switch the ignition on :)
i was try to figure that out for ages...even though the car ran....:laugh:,....nice 1, happy new year to you mate..........:niceone:
bones660
31-12-2008, 23:55
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
"it is not the barrell switch" - excuse me for thinking I might know something about auto elecs :rolleyes: It's only my job ;) you are telling me that because the stereo works the barrell must be fine ? wrong. can you explain how that tells you if both ignition output's are OK (since there are 2 seperate yellow wires) and how it tells you that the starter switch (white wire) is also fine ? there is more than 1 set of switch contacts in a barrell.
TO BE TECHNICAL . IT NOT THE BAREL . THERE IS A SWITCH ON THE BACK THAT ATTACHES TO THE BAREL . YES YOU ARE RIGHT . THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE CONTACT IN THE IGN SWITCH . BUT IF THE FIRST CLICK IS POWERING UP THE STERIO AND THE WINDOWS . THIS TELLS YOU THAT THE IGNITION SWITCH IS FINE THE SECOND POSITION IS TO START THE ENGINE, THEN THE SWITCH RETURNS TO POSITION 1. I KNOW THAT THE DASH LIGHTS ARE NOT WORKING . WHICH IS WHY I SAID ABOUT THE BATTERY CONNECTIONS BEING AT FAULT .
IF THE IGNITON SWITCH WAS LIKE SOME CARS IE 3 CLICKS . I WOULD SAY YES IT COULD BE THE SWITCH . BUT WHEN THERE ARE ONLY 2 POSITIONS AND THE WINDOWS WORK WHEN SWITCHED ON . THEN NO . ALTHOUGH I MAYBE WRONG . THIS IS JUST MY OPINION . :agree::agree:
There are three positions to the 5GTT ignition switch, not two. The (non latching) third position is to apply voltage to, and allow the full current to flow to, the starter solenoid.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
TO BE TECHNICAL . IT NOT THE BAREL . THERE IS A SWITCH ON THE BACK THAT ATTACHES TO THE BAREL . YES YOU ARE RIGHT . THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE CONTACT IN THE IGN SWITCH . BUT IF THE FIRST CLICK IS POWERING UP THE STERIO AND THE WINDOWS . THIS TELLS YOU THAT THE IGNITION SWITCH IS FINE THE SECOND POSITION IS TO START THE ENGINE, THEN THE SWITCH RETURNS TO POSITION 1. I KNOW THAT THE DASH LIGHTS ARE NOT WORKING . WHICH IS WHY I SAID ABOUT THE BATTERY CONNECTIONS BEING AT FAULT .
IF THE IGNITON SWITCH WAS LIKE SOME CARS IE 3 CLICKS . I WOULD SAY YES IT COULD BE THE SWITCH . BUT WHEN THERE ARE ONLY 2 POSITIONS AND THE WINDOWS WORK WHEN SWITCHED ON . THEN NO . ALTHOUGH I MAYBE WRONG . THIS IS JUST MY OPINION . :agree::agree:
let me try to explain it. you have 3 sets of contacts in the barrell switch in the R5:
white wire - starter exciter
yellow wire 1 - main ignition live
yellow wire 2 - ignition live but NOT live when cranking
the stereo and other things are connected to the second yellow ignition output, so that when you crank they get switched off while you do it. it sounds like that part of the switch is still working.
the other more important things (like ignition, dash lights, alternator live) come from the 1st main ignition yellow wire, which sounds dead to me.
so if the barrell has a fault it's entirely likely that some things will work and others won't. if I suggest something on this forum it's for good reason, I don't make this sh1t up ;)
mightymanx
01-01-2009, 03:25
i had a very similar problem to this a few years ago on 1 of my 5s i new it wernt the battery cos that was new turned out it was the starter motor put a new 1 in and it was like a dream :D
newbstar*
01-01-2009, 10:52
engine earth?
bones660
01-01-2009, 11:03
let me try to explain it. you have 3 sets of contacts in the barrell switch in the R5:
white wire - starter exciter
yellow wire 1 - main ignition live
yellow wire 2 - ignition live but NOT live when cranking
the stereo and other things are connected to the second yellow ignition output, so that when you crank they get switched off while you do it. it sounds like that part of the switch is still working.
the other more important things (like ignition, dash lights, alternator live) come from the 1st main ignition yellow wire, which sounds dead to me.
so if the barrell has a fault it's entirely likely that some things will work and others won't. if I suggest something on this forum it's for good reason, I don't make this sh1t up ;)
PUT YER DUMMY BACK IN :). AS I SAID , IT WAS MY OPINION THAT IT IS NOT THE IGNITION SWITCH AT FAULT ,AND I STILL STAND BY THAT . :D:D:coffee:
PS PLEASE CAN YOU POINT OUT WHERE THE WHITE WIRE IS ON THE R5 IGNITION SWITCH . AS I CAN ONLY SEE 2X RED 2X YELLOW .
Tiny Tim
01-01-2009, 11:23
What a f***ing hero. :sad2:
bones660
01-01-2009, 12:03
just incase i am wrong , and it turns out to be the ignition switch , here is a link to one for sale . think price is quite reasonable . http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380085065832
bones660
01-01-2009, 12:05
What a f***ing hero. :sad2:
thanks . sorry can't say the same about you though . not much helpful advice in your suggestion , is there . :scratch::scratch::sad2::sad2:
fishersaulgt
01-01-2009, 12:52
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
happy 09 lads, the beast lasts another year! Got back from the
Pub at 3am and attacked the prolem.... And the awnser, some one got it right...
Engine earth!
PUT YER DUMMY BACK IN :). AS I SAID , IT WAS MY OPINION THAT IT IS NOT THE IGNITION SWITCH AT FAULT ,AND I STILL STAND BY THAT . :D:D:coffee:
PS PLEASE CAN YOU POINT OUT WHERE THE WHITE WIRE IS ON THE R5 IGNITION SWITCH . AS I CAN ONLY SEE 2X RED 2X YELLOW .
and here was me thinking it was you that had spat a dummy because you had started writing in capitals ;)
I thought I was being helpfull by describing the function of the barrell to you.
your picture is of a new barrell by the looks of it, the original had a white wire for the starter.
bones660
01-01-2009, 13:14
and here was me thinking it was you that had spat a dummy because you had started writing in capitals ;)
I thought I was being helpfull by describing the function of the barrell to you.
your picture is of a new barrell by the looks of it, the original had a white wire for the starter.
no i wasn't getting funny with you , nor did i intend on telling you how to do your job . i didn't know you were a vehicle electrics engineer . i was just speaking from past experiences . i have owned 5 turbos and worked on them for quite some time . since 1993 to be exact .
i have just copied a little bit from my first post . the bit were it says about the battery earth .[ALSO CHECK THE BATTERY EARTH LEAD IS NOT CORRODED AT THE END WERE IT CONNECTS TO THE CAR BODY ]. as it turned out to be the engine earth , you could say i was partly right .
anyway enough said . appoligies to you for it sounding like i was having a go at you . just one last thing . the barrel wright up very good an easy way to understand the working of it .
I wish I wasn't a fussy old git otherwise I wouldn't be bothered, but I am :D
battery earth and engine earth are not the same. if it was battery earth (or live) then the stereo, etc wouldn't have worked. I am a tard though for not giving the engine earth much thought!! the barrell honestly could give those symptoms, but you dismissed everything that I'd said.
bones660
01-01-2009, 14:00
I wish I wasn't a fussy old git otherwise I wouldn't be bothered, but I am :D
battery earth and engine earth are not the same. if it was battery earth (or live) then the stereo, etc wouldn't have worked. I am a tard though for not giving the engine earth much thought!! the barrell honestly could give those symptoms, but you dismissed everything that I'd said.
yes you are right . they are 2 different things . engine earth and battery earth . correct me if i'm wrong . do they both connect to the same thing . ie battery- car body, engine - carbody .
if the battery earth were it connects to the carbody was corroded and not making proper contact . would give the same affect .
i only say this because the clio that i looked at done the same as his 5 turbo . the clio's battery terminals were corroded . the sterio worked, the lights worked , but had no dash light and would not crank the engine over . cleaned the corrosion of and worked fine .
but i won't over look the ignition switch again mate . :agree:
no point in stressing about it mate, the problem has been solved :)
to answer question though, no, the battery earth and engine earth won't give the same symptoms. with no engine earth the starter and batt light (and temp sender, oil sender, etc) will not work. if the battery earth is bad then it's plausable that some of the low current things might still work, like sterero, but headlamps would be very dim but the dash lights would still work, it would all just go very dim (or off) when the starter tries to turn over.
Tiny Tim
01-01-2009, 14:13
thanks . sorry can't say the same about you though . not much helpful advice in your suggestion , is there . :scratch::scratch::sad2::sad2:
Thats because it was a statement, not a suggestion.
newbstar*
01-01-2009, 17:24
Always start with the simple things first.Some of us guys always expect
the more involved problem has occured.Im one of these people myself.Glad my suggestion helped.:agree:
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