View Full Version : 1.8t Ignition Amplifier query
Ok all peeps using the e420c can I please have some help I am having some problems in getting my 1.8t lump to spark. Everything else works and timing is
spot on.
I have wired it in as per the pic attached (please excuse my hand writing)
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1777&pictureid=8757
The 4 pin plug on the ignition amplifier I have left as VW had it wired in (you will note that the plug number on 4 pin plug do not correspond with the coils). All I have done is join wires on the 5 pin plug for connection to the e420 c IGN 1 to which I have 1 &4, and on Ign 2 has 2 & 3 on. Pin 3 on the 5 pin plug has been grounded to an earth point.
Went to start car last night and the amplifier smoked clearly I have done something wrong.
The individual coil packs are wired in as follows:
Pin 1 is trigger signal, (confirmed goes to 4 wire plug on above diag in the 1 3 4 2 order have checked all 4),
Pin 15 is ignition 12v supply,
Pin 4a is GND this is GND to the cam cover.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1777&pictureid=8772
I will add I have used the VW golf loom so 4 pin plug is as VW had it I have merely cut the main ecu plugs of and removed what I don't need and then soldered and heat shrinked into my Adaptronic e420c ecu loom
Amplifier Bosch 0227100211 wired as
4 pin plug (As VW had it originally)
Pin 4 - Coil pack 1
Pin 3 - Coil Pack 3
Pin 2 - Coil Pack 4
Pin 1 - Coil Pack 2
5 Pin plug on amplifier
Pin 1 - black/yellow IGN 1 Standalone ecu (coil 1)
Pin 2 - black/purple IGN 2 Standalone ecu ( Coil 3)
Pin 3 - Brown GND
Pin 4 - black/brownIGN 1 Standalone ecu (coil 4)
Pin 5 - black/blue IGN 2 Standalone ecu ( Coil 2)
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1777&pictureid=8755
Cheers for any advice or help
James
SCHWARTZ
20-05-2013, 16:23
That handwriting is un-excuseable:laugh:
As per pm even if you have it wired to the ignitors in the wrong order you would still get a spark but won't start as sparking wrong cylinder. Can the ecu drive something like this? Does it not need a small relayed circuit for this kind of thing?:scratch:
Just to add Scoff's advice via pm just now will look at resistance check's tonight (Chris many thanks)
Hi James
Not a good start ! If it smoked it proably means there is a problem with supply polarity or one or more coils are wired wrong or short circuit.
With the ignitor unplugged you should identify which pins on the plug go to which coil. Then with a multimeter you should check the resistance between these pins and the coil 12v supply one at a time. In other words you're checking the low tension resistance of each COP. Coils normally have somewhere between 0.5 and 1.5 ohms. If any of them are zero then you have a problem, because if we do not have at least 0.5 ohms on them all then the ignitor will fail in a big way.
Did it smoke before you turned the engine over or only when you tried to crank ?
Cheers, Chris
Ok just redone the coil part of the loom with new wire getting continuity and .5 ohms through the multi meter now. So thing's are looking up:D.
I have now wired the coil loom and ignitior as per attached, I have changed the order on the 4 pin plug also to match the 2nd diagram in this attached.
SCHWARTZ
20-05-2013, 21:06
Said it would be your dodgy wiring:cooter:
What I now ask is how / were in WARI can I setup the coil parameters so i don't overload the coil / amplifier and cause it to overheat :D I believe std coil's typical is 3.0 I am wondering if I can change this down to 1.8 which I believe is for a smaller coil.
On the mk4 golf gti this amplified came from it was mounted to the plastic airbox the rear of it is like a big heatsink so I have been told on the vw forums
"Dwell time" on the triggering tab James. 1800uS = 1.8mS
"Dwell time" on the triggering tab James. 1800uS = 1.8mS
Chris many thanks for clarification. Perfect amended that last night to 1800uS as you say.
I had it set at 4000uS I think this what cooked it :eek: and not my wiring:agree:.
It won't have been the cause james, even at 5ms it would have taken a long time to over heat the coils or ignitor. So if you havn't found a wiring cause for the problem then you need to keep looking! :)
It won't have been the cause james, even at 5ms it would have taken a long time to over heat the coils or ignitor. So if you havn't found a wiring cause for the problem then you need to keep looking! :)
:crap:
Not found any wiring fault's I re-done the entire coil and ignitor loom with new wire's and earth connection's I only re-used the coil plug's and ignitior plug's. In fact the coil and ignitor loom is now seperated from the rest of the loom so I can install and remove it seperatly at the mo to check thing's.
I will put it all back on and see what happens:scared:
Ah, I thought in your PM you said you were seeing 0 ohm initially and then the correct 0.5 ohm per coil after you had rewired. Just double check, but if you're happy there is 0.5 ohm between live and each coil wire going to the ignitor then you should be fine. I guess yoiu might need a new ignitor though! :crap:
PS, if the smoking happened before you cranked the engine then it is not the fault of too much dwell time. The ECU will only trigger the coils when cranking (sparking) so if something smoked before cranking then it has to have been a wiring, coil or ignitor problem.
Chris :)
Ignitior spec Bosch 211 means nothing to me:ashamed::laugh:
http://www.microsquirt.info/Bosch_211.htm
The ignitor spec is fine James, I use the same ignitor on other jobs :)
The ignitor spec is fine James, I use the same ignitor on other jobs :)
Thats good to know cheers ignitor is fried lol will pick up another
Getting pissed off now all re-wired again and a brand new bosch 211 ignitor and still no start dwell time set @ 1800uS. I have the ignitorr mounted to a nice alloy bracket in which I directlty on the back of that I have large i7 heat sink and fan mounted to it in attempted to keep it cool also desent cpu paste used :laugh::D
My concerns aee with just the 5 pin connector plugged in the ignitior doesnt get hot only wires to the 5 pin connector ign 1, ign 2 and gnd point. But when I plug the 4 pin and ignition on the ignitor gets very very hot quick:scratch:
The coil packs I am using are the dumb 3 pin type std equipment for the audi lump I have as is the ignitor.
The 4 pin plug goes direct to the coils as the signal wires / pin. The coils are 3 pin type signal wire as already said the other 2 pins on the coil are gnd which bolts to cam cover and an ignition live feed for the coil.
I am so stuck and peeved now anyone local to Southwater west sussex good at wiring and fancy having a look??
My home made 3 pin coils and bosch 211 ignitor loom
Basic leaving the following on main longer section with 4 pin ignitor connection for signal, GND to cam cover and 12v ignition feed.
Smaller loom in pic is 5 pin connector to ignitor with GND pins 1&5 linked (coil 1 & 4) IGN 1 Pins 2 & 3 linked (coil 2&3) IGN 2 and a GND.
Amplifier Bosch 0227100211 now wired
4 pin plug
Pin 4 - Coil pack 1
Pin 3 - Coil Pack 2
Pin 2 - Coil Pack 3
Pin 1 - Coil Pack 4
5 Pin plug on amplifier
Pin 1 - black/yellow IGN 1 Standalone ecu (coil 1)
Pin 2 - black/purple IGN 2 Standalone ecu ( Coil 2)
Pin 3 - Brown GND
Pin 4 - black/brownIGN 1 Standalone ecu (coil 3)
Pin 5 - black/blue IGN 2 Standalone ecu ( Coil 4)
Slight update still can't get the fecker started, firing order 1342 from cam cover end. Cam belt is timed in fine. IGN1 ECU controls 1&2 Ign 2 controls 2&3. Injectors are firing and engine is cranking nicely. Just back fire which to me say's wrong firing order:scratch:
Help new to this standalone malarky
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/F426%20BKB%20rwd%205%20GTT/RWD%20r5%201800cc%20turbo%2020v/th_20130603_224812_zps95e8a9b3.jpg (http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/F426%20BKB%20rwd%205%20GTT/RWD%20r5%201800cc%20turbo%2020v/20130603_224812_zps95e8a9b3.mp4)
http://s252.photobucket.com/user/GTTJames/media/F426%20BKB%20rwd%205%20GTT/RWD%20r5%201800cc%20turbo%2020v/20130603_224812_zps95e8a9b3.mp4.html
Wasted spark should fire on the power and exhaust stroke. So wont matter if you have 1&4 round the right way.
Try swapping 1&4 with 2&3 if that makes sense lol.
Or if you can swap the signal in the coil plug? On a cossie you just swap the 2 outer wires on the plug into the coil pack.
Wasted spark should fire on the power and exhaust stroke. So wont matter if you have 1&4 round the right way.
Try swapping 1&4 with 2&3 if that makes sense lol.
Or if you can swap the signal in the coil plug? On a cossie you just swap the 2 outer wires on the plug into the coil pack.
I'll give it ago can't hurt anything :agree:
I'll give it ago can't hurt anything :agree:
Just left a reply on fb, it looks to have fuel & must be firing as it back fired ?? So got to be wrong order ??
Just left a reply on fb, it looks to have fuel & must be firing as it back fired ?? So got to be wrong order ??
Will swap wires over laterz and try. Can't see FB at mo phone internet 3g network seems to be down :scratch: first time since I have had phone hopefully be back up soon.
Reversing wires made it worse lol
Giving up for now hopefully it will fix itself by the next time I go to car which wint be this week as now losing enthusiasm:(
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