base map, help please! lol

[markey b]

does anyone make sense of this?!?

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1731&pictureid=8233

its supposed to be a base map, i have no clue what it all means, i just want the base to be the same as the renix to start but no idea what means what, its all numbers and left to my own devices i'll destroy my car :disagree:

[Ashy]

You mapping it with tps as main load rather than map?

[markey b]

nope its 3bar map, just shows TPS on the graph :confused:

basically where my car is there is no wifi, so i want basemap as close to renix as poss, so at least i can drive it out and around for a bit with it no worse than before,

the nodiz isn't even fitted yet, its powered up on my floor with a jump pack just to get the map off and hopefully start to learn how to understand what it all means :laugh:

any pointers as to what to change initially greatly recieved, i know its on the car yet but i'd like to be able to fit it, use it and get it mapped properly at a later date :smokin:

[Scoff]

Grab everything below 101 (ie 101 - 250) and knock 2 degrees off. That should put you in the ballpark.

[markey b]

Grab everything below 101 (ie 101 - 250) and knock 2 degrees off. That should put you in the ballpark.

thank you! hopefully i can get it to a pro (yourself maybe :p) when its all up and running properly, but the distance from mine to yours is not only my anual mileage, but also worth 2 rebuilds to get there going on previous form :laugh:

[Mart]

Interesting scaling. Is that default?

[markey b]

yup its the base map for a gtt supplied on the nodiz... i wanted to see if it could be made any better before even trying it

[Mart]

Not so much the timing values, but the actual 'Y' (tps/map) scaling.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Would be interesting to compare that to the "safe" map here.....
http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=1113

[TNT ANDY]

thank you! hopefully i can get it to a pro (yourself maybe :p) when its all up and running properly, but the distance from mine to yours is not only my anual mileage, but also worth 2 rebuilds to get there going on previous form :laugh:

It's worth the trip fella:agree:

[markey b]

hopefully these look a little better :agree:

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1731&pictureid=8236

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1731&pictureid=8235

[Red October]

Had the lad whos mapping mine look at the programme today. He reckons he can map these off the top of his head with this its that easy. By next friday it will be running. Good luck marky b.

[markey b]

Had the lad whos mapping mine look at the programme today. He reckons he can map these off the top of his head with this its that easy. By next friday it will be running. Good luck marky b.

yeah changing stuff is easy if you know what your changing lol

only thing im worried about is that im pretty sure a 3bar map only goes up to 21psi... what happens if (when) boost goes off the map?

[Red October]

Oh right. The reason of the 3bar map sensor was to give the noDiz a wider scope through the rev range. Pretty pointless using a 3 bar unless your trying 18+psi, I may be wrong but thats how I understood it mark.

[Tony Walker]

i think Markey b has a tendancy to run alot more than 18psi :D:agree:

[Os8472]

i think Markey b has a tendancy to run alot more than 18psi :D:agree:

Yeah add another 10psi to that figure and your getting close ;)

[Logg]

yeah changing stuff is easy if you know what your changing lol

only thing im worried about is that im pretty sure a 3bar map only goes up to 21psi... what happens if (when) boost goes off the map?

3 bar map sensor should read up to 28/29psI

[Os8472]

3 bar map sensor should read up to 28/29psI

Still not enough for Mr B :laugh:

[markey b]

:cooter: I love a bit of boost

[philr5t]

:cooter: I love a bit of boost

You staying with the Vnt mate ????

[Matt Cole]

3 bar map sensor should read up to 28/29psI

Really? I thought that would depend on the atmospheric pressure but normally taken as 1 bar. A 3 bar MAP would only give you max 2 bar. Then it depends on its scale of the particular sensor you have. I would have thought at least 0.3bar from the limit, hence, 1.7 bar max to be safe. May be even less if you having boost spiking issues................:crap:

[markey b]

You staying with the Vnt mate ????

Yes indeed fella, just bought another one for it lol, don't think I could deal with a normal turbo, more lag and less punch would mean a safety but less exciting car to drive lol

[philr5t]

Yes indeed fella, just bought another one for it lol, don't think I could deal with a normal turbo, more lag and less punch would mean a safety but less exciting car to drive lol

You should be fine with a 3bar map sensor then as my Vnt maxed out at around 25psi and didn't make anymore power

[Woznaldo]

Really? I thought that would depend on the atmospheric pressure but normally taken as 1 bar. A 3 bar MAP would only give you max 2 bar. Then it depends on its scale of the particular sensor you have. I would have thought at least 0.3bar from the limit, hence, 1.7 bar max to be safe. May be even less if you having boost spiking issues................:crap:

It does depend on atmospheric pressure, but lets just say we are at sea level and we have standard atmospheric pressure (atm). 1 atm = 14.696psi or 1013.25 millibars or 101.325kPa. As we go up in altitude, atm will lower for the same temp and humidity.

We don't need to be that accurate, especially as the actual atm is dependent on the conditions of the day, therefore we will say that 1 atm = 1 bar or 14.7psi, this will leave 29.4psi for boost, based on a 3 bar MAP Sensor.

I have a 4 bar MAP Sensor built in to my Megasquirt, so I can run up to 43psi of boost........ probably for about 5 secs before the engine goes pop!

[Matt Cole]

It does depend on atmospheric pressure, but lets just say we are at sea level and we have standard atmospheric pressure (atm). 1 atm = 14.696psi or 1013.25 millibars or 101.325kPa. As we go up in altitude, atm will lower for the same temp and humidity.

We don't need to be that accurate, especially as the actual atm is dependent on the conditions of the day, therefore we will say that 1 atm = 1 bar or 14.7psi, this will leave 29.4psi for boost, based on a 3 bar MAP Sensor.

I have a 4 bar MAP Sensor built in to my Megasquirt, so I can run up to 43psi of boost........ probably for about 5 secs before the engine goes pop!


Ok, i'll explain what i meant:

1 bar MAP sensor is capable of reading intake pressures below or equal to atmospheric pressure, for this reason a 1 bar MAP sensor is suitable only for naturally aspirated engines (ie not turbo or supercharged), ie inlet pressure pre boost as in vacuume.

2 bar MAP sensor is usually capable of reading intake pressures up to 1 bar of positive pressure above atmospheric. This is equivalent to around 14.7psi of boost or 100kpa of positive pressure. This sensor is suitable for turbocharged or supercharged vehicles running 15psi of boost or less ie, vacuum plus 14.7psi positive pressure.

3 bar MAP sensor is usually capable of reading intake pressures up to 2 bar of positive pressure above atmospheric . This is equivalent to around 29.4psi of boost or 200kpa of positive pressure. This sensor is suitable for reading positive pressures between between 15psi and 30psi of boost. As stated earlier, it does depend on the scaling. Some nasty sensors only read up to 3.8 or so volts.

[Ashy]

Matt you've lost me on that one, you're saying a 3 bar sensor is capable of reading 2 bar positive pressure? But then that's what you are questioning when logg said the same thing above?

[Matt Cole]

Matt you've lost me on that one, you're saying a 3 bar sensor is capable of reading 2 bar positive pressure? But then that's what you are questioning when logg said the same thing above?

No im not im agreeing with logg :scratch:

The main point im making is some sensors scale differently and dont actually do 2 bar.

[Woznaldo]

Matt you've lost me on that one, you're saying a 3 bar sensor is capable of reading 2 bar positive pressure? But then that's what you are questioning when logg said the same thing above?

Sorry Matt, as per Ashy, I only posted my waffle as I thought you didn't think it could read 2 bar (29.4psi) of positive pressure?

[Logg]

I think what Matt was getting at is that even though a 3 bar map sensor can read 28/29psi- 2 bar positive pressure. due to atmospheric losses and wanting a safety margin you wouldn't run that pressure but probably 26/27psi.

Mark if you was to run more boost than the sensor could read you'd map highest point of the map for your actual max boost level. But that wouldn't be advisable as you'd loose your safety of having a over boost cut and control the map between 29psi to say 34psi. But the Cossie boys seem to do that. :scratch:

[TNT ANDY]

:laugh: I love this - why don't map manufacturers just sell 3 bar map sensors as 2 bar map sensors and save the confusion. This is very much a Spinal Tap moment, 'this one goes upto 11' :laugh:

I know the reasons btw, we don't suffer too much over here in ol Blighty with variance of ATM. It'd just save confusion, that's all I'm saying.

[Scoff]

:laugh: I love this - why don't map manufacturers just sell 3 bar map sensors as 2 bar map sensors and save the confusion. This is very much a Spinal Tap moment, 'this one goes upto 11' :laugh:

I know the reasons btw, we don't suffer too much over here in ol Blighty with variance of ATM. It'd just save confusion, that's all I'm saying.

That would be more confusing, to have a "2 bar" map sensor with a range of 3 bars :confused: Best to leave it as it is I think :cool:

[Matt Cole]

I think what Matt was getting at is that even though a 3 bar map sensor can read 28/29psi- 2 bar positive pressure. due to atmospheric losses and wanting a safety margin you wouldn't run that pressure but probably 26/27psi.

Mark if you was to run more boost than the sensor could read you'd map highest point of the map for your actual max boost level. But that wouldn't be advisable as you'd loose your safety of having a over boost cut and control the map between 29psi to say 34psi. But the Cossie boys seem to do that. :scratch:
:agree: Theres some manufacturer info on the web somewhere from Bosch relating to some of their OEM sensors. Im sure there was some graphs showing the relation between voltage and pressure.

[Scoff]

Yes, the datasheet for the 3 bar weber marelli is on my website somewhere. It's linear up to 29psi, some sensors are log so you need to be carefull.