Improving the torsion bar

[Os8472]

Ok guys I'm on a quest for handling improvements, front ends are easy but torsion bars are a pain but I've had one idea, someone has probably done it already which is great because you can tell what to do.

Say I turret the rear arches so I can fit full length upright dampers and springs and then removed the torsion bars leaving the rear beam suspension sorted by the springs and dampers would that work? or am I missing anything?

[Woznaldo]

When people turret the rear end, they normally keep the std torsion bars and use a light assister spring to 'add' to the spring rate. The advantage of this is keeping the unsprung weight to a minimum (light springs, light weight).

You can of course, ditch the torsion bars altogether and go even softer at the rear if you wanted but there little advantage to be had if at all, but I'm no expert.

The most expensive route is to go for uprated torsion bars for someone like www.renaultpower.com in Germany

http://www.renaultpower.com/?rS=parts&cid=109

I even looked at having custom torsion bars made but it was going to cost A$700 (GBP450) which is way more than I want to spend!

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

I seriously think about chopping the toaster about too much oli, after all it's easily reverted to standard as it stands.

If you're serious about rear turrets get a campus to chop about and play with. I could even tell you where there is a pair of front turrets ;)

[Os8472]

Whoops sorry folks, forgot to say this for the 9 not the 5, strictly speaking the rear arches are already turreted, the main reason I'm thinking about this the back is saggy as fook and I'm sure it's the torsion bars that's the problem and trying to find replacements is going to be next to impossible

[olidaviesuk]

Stiffer rear end doesn't always mean a better handling car, look at the rollbar and rear geometry, for a £ for £ handling benefit these will make far more difference than just making the rear of the car stiffer... An unwelcome side effect of updating the torsion bars will make the car undrivable in the wet....

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

Stiffer rear end doesn't always mean a better handling car, look at the rollbar and rear geometry, for a £ for £ handling benefit these will make far more difference than just making the rear of the car stiffer... An unwelcome side effect of updating the torsion bars will make the car undrivable in the wet....

so oli, what have you done on the 5 regards this....:)

[olidaviesuk]

Talk to Matt, we're doing a custom rear beam on an exchange basis with adjustable toe and camber ;-)
so oli, what have you done on the 5 regards this....:)

[Woznaldo]

That does sound intriguing!

Oli is right, increasing the rear roll stiffness will have far more beneficial effect than just making the rear spring rate harder. That said if you increase the spring rate at the front it's nice to add some to the rear too. That way the balance is restored to a certain extent.

Whiteline do a bolt on rear Anti-roll Bar for the Clio 172/182 that could be adapted to work on a 5,9,11 or Clio1. It even has some adjustability built in.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=BRR10Z

[James5]

Woz check out ricardos clio182 he has the rear whiteline arb conversion fitted:agree:

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showpost.php?p=280722&postcount=48

[Os8472]

Stiffer rear end doesn't always mean a better handling car, look at the rollbar and rear geometry, for a £ for £ handling benefit these will make far more difference than just making the rear of the car stiffer... An unwelcome side effect of updating the torsion bars will make the car undrivable in the wet....

True but when's massive 68bhp can cause the exhaust to practically hit the floor when booting it there's deffinatly room for improvement

[olidaviesuk]

If you look at how most front wheel drive touring cars are set up they will have 3-400lb front springs and substantially less at the back (this is generalising quite a bit but...) with very big anti roll bars. From PURELY a handling viewpoint, if your cars rubbing at the back then it's too low... However, I do get that a lot of people aren't just tracking/racing the car and want the rear lowered for looks as well, in which case you will need to stiffen the back a bit...


True but when's massive 68bhp can cause the exhaust to practically hit the floor when booting it there's deffinatly room for improvement

[Os8472]

If you look at how most front wheel drive touring cars are set up they will have 3-400lb front springs and substantially less at the back (this is generalising quite a bit but...) with very big anti roll bars. From PURELY a handling viewpoint, if your cars rubbing at the back then it's too low... However, I do get that a lot of people aren't just tracking/racing the car and want the rear lowered for looks as well, in which case you will need to stiffen the back a bit...

Er it's not lowered :( the arse is just saggy as fook

[olidaviesuk]

Fook..... Something's up with that then, as std it's not a terrible setup, bump stops still in one piece? Or torsion bars/anti rollbars not in properly?


Er it's not lowered :( the arse is just saggy as fook

[Os8472]

Fook..... Something's up with that then, as std it's not a terrible setup, bump stops still in one piece? Or torsion bars/anti rollbars not in properly?

I replaced the rear dampers and it helped a bit, bump stops are fine.

I'm thinking the torsion bars are twisted or something, can torsion bars wear out?

[Brigsy]

Standard dampers are gash, put some better dampers on as a starting point

[Os8472]

Standard dampers are gash, put some better dampers on as a starting point

I did, mk2 clio jobs, loads stiffer than OE

[Brigsy]

Put some decent koni or something like on mate?

[Os8472]

Put some decent koni or something like on mate?

The clio dampers should of been more than up to the job, the torsion bars is where fault lies

[Brigsy]

The clio dampers are only bog standard items though? Fit a 19 16v beam?

[Os8472]

The clio dampers are only bog standard items though? Fit a 19 16v beam?

Yes but there in mint condition and the mk2 clio dci is heavier than an R9. Yes R19 items would be better but if the torsion bars aren't doing there job properly, stiffer dampers are only going to hide the problem.

Any back to my original question, the rear arches are turreted so fitting normal upright shocks and springs would work if I removed the torsion bars and let the beam act as a trailing arm setup.

Is there anything I need to be awear of in doing so?

[Tony Walker]

will the bushes in the arms be strong enough to cope without the torsion bars in?

[Os8472]

will the bushes in the arms be strong enough to cope without the torsion bars in?

That's the kinda thing I was thinking about, I'm sure someone else has done it before, would be nice to see how it went

[Ian S]

When I lowered a friends 5GTT, before the fitted the rear shocks, he drove the car out of the drive to the road so he see the rear to front height gradation.

I was amazed at how far and much the rear bounced with no shocks on. That was a 25,000 mile car so the bars were probably not faulty.

Fitting the new Konis he bought lifted the rear height somewhat and stopped it moving much.

Are those Clio shocks at the same angle on the 9 as the Clio? That might have an effect of their effective damping. I guess if they are more upright on the Clio they'd be softer than would be needed for a lower fitment.

My Fiat Cinquecento has not exactly trailing arms at the rear but wishbones at a slight angle or two so they change the camber and / or toe bit as the wheels go up and down. It has inclined shocks and short upright springs. The back end seems to handle much better than the 5. But it does have a lot less power and a lot less suspension travel. It's nearly on it's bump stops all the time which is not good on bumps.

[Ashy]

Yeah I think they took the bushes out and used ball race bearings, there was a thread about it on here. I'm sure it's something the Peugeot lot do as a fairly standard upgrade!

[Ashy]

Here (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=20939&highlight=Rear+bearings+bushes) you go.

[Os8472]

When I lowered a friends 5GTT, before the fitted the rear shocks, he drove the car out of the drive to the road so he see the rear to front height gradation.

I was amazed at how far and much the rear bounced with no shocks on. That was a 25,000 mile car so the bars were probably not faulty.

Fitting the new Konis he bought lifted the rear height somewhat and stopped it moving much.

Are those Clio shocks at the same angle on the 9 as the Clio? That might have an effect of their effective damping. I guess if they are more upright on the Clio they'd be softer than would be needed for a lower fitment.

My Fiat Cinquecento has not exactly trailing arms at the rear but wishbones at a slight angle or two so they change the camber and / or toe bit as the wheels go up and down. It has inclined shocks and short upright springs. The back end seems to handle much better than the 5. But it does have a lot less power and a lot less suspension travel. It's nearly on it's bump stops all the time which is not good on bumps.


Well my 9 has just about hit 90k and no one has ever touch the torsion bars, probably seized to f**k

The clio dampers sit at about same angle as they do on the 9

When I first fitted them the rear improved a lot over what it was before but still wasn't right, the back hasn't been lowered as it was owned by a older chap

[Os8472]

Here (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=20939&highlight=Rear+bearings+bushes) you go.

Ah very handy, ill have a proper read of that tomorrow before lunch.

I'm thinking if the torsion bars are worn ill leave them in so the bearings don't take full load of the beam and theyll act as helper springs as such then add upright springs and dampers to most the work, if I use Coilovers I'd be able to the damping rate and ride height from much easier.

What you guys think?