View Full Version : Tax based on emissions - so expensive for big/fast cars!
My mate just bought a Mazda 6 MPS. 2.3litre turbo 4wd:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/assets/cms/3a1f347a-d96d-405b-9298-fab5fc11cced/Large%20Image%20(optional).jpg?p=081103_02:14
For £4k I was really impressed by it I have to say. It's not german build quality, it's not the nicest to look at (comparatively) and although it's quick (6.6 to 60, 260hp, 280ftlb), it's not going to shame the real quick saloons but for the price it's a genuine option.
Then he told me it was £470 a year to tax :eek:
Well, I've never had a car that attracted the post 1st March 2001 vehicle excise duty that's based on emissions but I have long thought that the value of high emissions cars registered just prior to the switch over date should surely hold their value far better in comparison to those registered just after.
I've not checked prices out but the further we go into the future, the more keenly this will be felt by any popular high emissions cars that were registered around that time, that have been really well looked after and are therefore still great cars to buy/own. Supercharged Jag XJR anyone (if you could afford the petrol, lol)?
For example, it would make a lot more sense to buy a Y plate (or v early 51 plate) E46 BMW 330i, than a 52plate (or later) one of exactly the same spec, condition, and mileage.
I know this might seem obvious but to someone like me who doesn't have a lot of money and often buys older cars that have been looked after (say around the £2-3k mark), this could make a thousand pounds difference in tax if you kept the car for 3-4years, so that then becomes a key element when choosing which car to buy.
Given that taxing your car is so damn costly, for my next car (I currently have a 1997 E36 323ise), I will certainly be looking through the most modern (for their time) and best looked after cars made in the year 2000.
Either that or find those cars which are comparable on tax before/after the switch over but are still exciting to drive. Anyone know of any options in this regard?
Some of the Jap imports are in the cheaper tax band, mainly due to over-sights (read data-entry c*ck ups) from the DVLA in correctly categorising & registering the cars on the UK database.
As a good example, I knew of several people on the MLR with similar models/age (post-2001) Evo's paying £220 per year, whilst the others were paying the £400 odd a year for road tax.
Always worth entering the number plate of any potential new purchases into the DVLA's road tax section to see what you'd be paying a year:
https://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/app/enquiry?execution=e1s1
If you can live with the fuel consumption then volvo T5s are a good example of this. Tax jumps fro 200 to 400 depending on the year of the car! An easy 300bhp can be had out of these but they eat brakes and suspension for a laugh.
I outed mine as I couldn't cope with 17mpg :eek:
markey b
19-12-2012, 11:20
Some of the Jap imports are in the cheaper tax band, mainly due to over-sights (read data-entry c*ck ups) from the DVLA in correctly categorising & registering the cars on the UK database.
As a good example, I knew of several people on the MLR with similar models/age (post-2001) Evo's paying £220 per year, whilst the others were paying the £400 odd a year for road tax.
Always worth entering the number plate of any potential new purchases into the DVLA's road tax section to see what you'd be paying a year:
https://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/app/enquiry?execution=e1s1
just had a look on there, pretty upset that i've just bought a 106 gti, and its £220 a year! rape!!
Andy, my mate has had an old T5 and a later XC70 (with XC90 wheels), both tweaked. The disc brake warping issue was ridiculous. Loved them other than that.
Oh and yeah, I remember him having to replace suspension parts along the way too. :agree:
My car falls in to the £460 bracket by just 2g/km. 2g/km less (less than 1%) and it would be £270. Crazy rules, there really should be more price breaks.
cook1981
19-12-2012, 12:26
Ive got a 53 reg subaru wrx and im sure its only £260
Mr Raider
19-12-2012, 12:32
5 GT £135 a year job done! :wasntme:
It's true, taxing a GTT is far less of a problem than most fast cars :)
Say you wanted to use it as a weekend car but wanted your daily to be modern, have plenty of poke but not attract a huge tax bill, what do you do?
Interesting that the WRX is relatively cheap given that it's subject to the emissions bracketing.
This was a decision for me when buying my S2000, basically the regs did come in 2001 as you suggest, but the leap was held off further on emmisions based around band "K". the lower cost of £270 was held on cars before the new registration in March 2006, cars after this date pay £460
Therefore for a "55" plate S2000 is considerably cheaper to tax each year than an "06" plate.
I dont know what other cars come into this bracket, but just a note as you could look to cars upto 2006 not just 2001.
It is noted on the below link as *
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables
5 GT £135 a year job done! :wasntme:
Get a bike!
160 mph, 40mpg only 76 sheets a year!!!!
Andy, my mate has had an old T5 and a later XC70 (with XC90 wheels), both tweaked. The disc brake warping issue was ridiculous. Loved them other than that.
Oh and yeah, I remember him having to replace suspension parts along the way too. :agree:
The stupid design on the v70 ment you couldn't do ARBs on their own (unless you had an ealry 850), need to get the whole bar as the bushes are bonded to it. Volvo wanted over £200 for that! Subframe drop to do the job. Pray they don't fail an MOT!!
Interesting that the WRX is relatively cheap given that it's subject to the emissions bracketing.
Could be a Jap import?
Saying that, thinking about it since my last post, I do recall a thread on the MLR where some latter model UK released/registered Evo's were also in the 'lower' tax band, yet no-one knew why (assume said DVLA feck up).
markey b
19-12-2012, 13:22
Get a bike!
160 mph, 40mpg only 76 sheets a year!!!!
YUP YUP! :agree:
Glad I started this thread now. One or two cheeky ways to reduce costs that I didn't know about before.
I've always wanted an S2000. If I ever have enough money for one, I now know they are more affordable to 2005 :)
The sweet spot for an S2000 is between MY2004 and MY2006 upto march. Its the AP2 (read as mk2) with the revised headlights, tail lights and bumpers etc, but with the lower tax.
They did still change suspension settings all the way up to its run out in 2009, but you can change most of the settings with a geo anyway.
Early AP1's can be had for little cash these days
wrightygtt
19-12-2012, 18:36
I have a 2005 wrx wagon not an import and that is around the 260 mark :) great car
DaveL485
22-12-2012, 11:09
Of course the other side of the emissions related tax coin is that some cars are cheaper.
2002 Volvo S60 D5 (2.5l, 5cyl Turbo Diesel)
Vehicle Excise Duty rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £107.25
12 Months Rate £195.00
is LESS than my 2.0NA Clio Sport!
Vehicle Excise Duty rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £137.50
12 Months Rate £250.00
And the 21 is right in the middle despite being the thirstiest of the lot :laugh:
Vehicle Excise Duty rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £121.00
12 Months Rate £220.00
:) cool.
The question is, is a year 2000 of the same S60 model more or less expensive than your 2002?
Also, is the Clio sport registered before or after the switch over? If before, what's the post-switch over rate for the same car, if after, what is the pre-switch over rate?:)
DaveL485
23-12-2012, 00:12
:) cool.
The question is, is a year 2000 of the same S60 model more or less expensive than your 2002?
Also, is the Clio sport registered before or after the switch over? If before, what's the post-switch over rate for the same car, if after, what is the pre-switch over rate?:)
The Pre 2000 S60 D5 would be the same as the 21 as would a pre 2000 Clio.
My Clio is a '53.
So one more, one less....balances out I guess :cry:
Someone i know recently bought a new m5, can't remember the exact figure but im sure his 12 months road tax was over £800. I swear i nearly **** :scared:
New cars its double the tax for first year
Did look at a cheap Focus 2 litre which needed a bit of work doing to it, then realised it was like £270 tax for the year, that was about half the price I was going to pay for the car :eek:
dangerous dave
23-12-2012, 13:48
When my brother turned up with a 1.4 hdi 206 I thought he was a fool, £30 tax, cheap insurance, 500-600 a tank all day everyday perhaps more if your super anal about your driving style.
Not as much of a fool as I thought.. :scratch:
The Pre 2000 S60 D5 would be the same as the 21 as would a pre 2000 Clio.
My Clio is a '53.
So one more, one less....balances out I guess :cry:
Ah right, that's interesting. So a Y plate S60 diesel is £220 a year to tax and a 02 plate £195 but the Clio effectively goes up from £220 to £250. :agree:
Not as bad as I thought, like the WRX situation. I suppose the big increase in tax is as I'd imagined, at the top end of the scale in terms of engine size (and any other engines that have particularly rubbish emissions I guess).
markey b
27-12-2012, 14:38
When my brother turned up with a 1.4 hdi 206 I thought he was a fool, £30 tax, cheap insurance, 500-600 a tank all day everyday perhaps more if your super anal about your driving style.
Not as much of a fool as I thought.. :scratch:
clio dci with a cheeky remap, £30 tax 80mpg ;)
only 470???? thats cheap! here in lovely ireland its a 1034 if its over 2301cc! thats 850GBP!
my mx3 is 1300 to tax! (not that it will ever see it!)
I was looking at the Volvo V50 diesel, remap to over 260ft/lbs and over 40mpg, tax at £170 a year. The 182 at the moment is £245. But then to be fair the flip side is the 18" tyres that need changing every 12k, DPF ain't cheap, focus running gear probably at Volvo prices :D
My 850r was a beast at 300ft/lbs but like the Andy M mentioned fuel consumption was an absolute joke :eek: top of the range with ALL the toys
The V50 sounds like a great option. Looks nice too. Are these any better on brakes and suspension than the larger V70's?
http://images.sytner.co.uk/w3images/used_stock/-361369/new_image_1.jpg
dangerous dave
28-12-2012, 11:56
I love the volvo's and I love there grandad image as it keeps young owners out of them, that can't maintain a fiesta let alone an ovlov.. They offer everything I want and need in a car I like, even the BMW diesel estates are tempting as they can cover almost as much as the starship enterprise in there lifetime.
Looks spot on Trev, they seem to tick the boxes. This is the 1 i'm mildy interested in
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221114337861;jsessionid=95F421F741BEE913BDF18F9DD6 908D24?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.ht ml%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D22111433786 1%26_rdc%3D1
A great option for the money. :agree:
old skool turbo power
08-01-2013, 22:25
only 470???? thats cheap! here in lovely ireland its a 1034 if its over 2301cc! thats 850GBP!
my mx3 is 1300 to tax! (not that it will ever see it!)
i was looking to get 172 but the tax was about 662 or sumthink like that,brought my leon cupra and that for the yr is 592 i think for a yrs so payed 6 months,leon in uk is 270...saying that ive only every seen 1 curpa r around :laugh:......not forgetting the vrt i payed to get it over here :confused::crap:
Guys, tell me the roads over there are in fantastic condition. :scared:
The stupid thing is , people with really massive engined cars will do low mileage say 3 to 6 K max - they pay the most tax based on CO2 emissions. Those with small engines will drive the most and pay the least tax, however because the big engined cars are doing less mileage they put out less CO2 than the small engined cars doing 15K+ miles a year!:wasntme:
How does taxing a person more for doing less mileage help the environment in the scenario above?
Car tax should be the same for all cars as its meant to pay for the upkeep of the roads.
Bring in per mile charging, the more miles you do the more you pay - that is the only way to force people to think about using their cars if they could walk to the shops..
small car 180 Gram per mile , 20K per year = 3,600,000 Gs of CO2 = Less tax more pollution
Big car 280 Gram per mile , 12K per year = 3,360,000 Gs of CO2 = more tax less pollution:cartman::cartman::cartman::cartman:
markey b
09-01-2013, 12:56
i have 4 cars and a bike, my car tax bill per year is pretty horrific, yet i can only drive/ride one at a time, surely they should road tax the driver not the vehicle, especially as the roads are still piss poor and i pay alot of cash
Both good ideas.
Tom's would work best IMO but be difficult to implement as it would mean tracking everyone's mileage. Which means a GPS black box that you can't tamper with in every car. Also, tax would have to be charged retrospectively (so probably meaning paying per month), as you never know how many miles you're going to do in the coming year exactly.
And this system wouldn't deter high polluting vehicles (we want cars to be cleaner so there needs to be an incentive).
Ideally I'd go with per vehicle, according to mileage, with an emissions multiplier. Paid for by whoever owns the vehicle (like now). If a car is shared, it's likely to be within a family so can be sorted out in family budgeting as it is now.
If a car is owned by a company, the company pays (with negotiations as to how this fits with the employment package per employee), as is now.
The technology to achieve this type of tax system is available and could be a prerequisite for new cars, like catalytic converters in 1991.
Penfold aka The Dealer
09-01-2013, 14:59
Most simple option would be to scrap road tax and put *p per litre of fuel at the pumps.... The more fuel you use the more tax you pay... Simples.
Also with regards to emissions lower emission cars should cost less and those with higher emissions should more with the excess money going into planting more trees etc...
:coffee: that might work.
markey b
09-01-2013, 15:51
Most simple option would be to scrap road tax and put *p per litre of fuel at the pumps.... The more fuel you use the more tax you pay... Simples.
surely the fact that nearly 80% of the cost of fuel is tax of some sort kinda covers this? maybe less wasted on benefits to people that shouldn't be in this country, and i dont mean that in a BNP way either
Penfold aka The Dealer
09-01-2013, 15:58
surely the fact that nearly 80% of the cost of fuel is tax of some sort kinda covers this? maybe less wasted on benefits to people that shouldn't be in this country, and i dont mean that in a BNP way either
Well ofcourse.... Lets face where there are benefits there will be benefit cheats, people that scam, steal, lie to get money....
The tax system in this country needs looking at, but i would rather live here than most of Europe... It's not perfect but it works... Kinda
dangerous dave
09-01-2013, 18:30
Most simple option would be to scrap road tax and put *p per litre of fuel at the pumps.... The more fuel you use the more tax you pay... Simples.
Also with regards to emissions lower emission cars should cost less and those with higher emissions should more with the excess money going into planting more trees etc...
That means i'll be paying road tax when I mow the lawn cut bricks and blocks at work, chainsaw stuff..
I think prisoners should fix the roads for free and we pay for them to sit in 5 star cells, I'd rather they earn it.
mk2LagunaOC
09-01-2013, 21:23
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Love that Mazda but not the tax I'm afraid that's what makes large cars go down in value a lot if you buy one you'll have to keep it as they can be hard to sell on unless you're near enough giving it away. It's like mk2 Laguna Turbos (petrol) are going cheap as anything cause of the tax so high and people get put of them but otherwise they are pretty good cars.
old skool turbo power
10-01-2013, 01:10
Guys, tell me the roads over there are in fantastic condition. :scared:
:laugh:jezzz some of them are ok tbh but if yout off out into the countryside then your be pretty ****ned imo,they is a main motorway that goes from the eastside to the west side of the country(galway to dublin)distance would be like going from bham to blackpool roughley,and that is a brand new fresh part of the motorway,its like the uk aroads double dual carraige way,3 tolls and thats it,thats prob the best part of the roads id say.not many pot holes though.
tax is expensive but the insurance it pretty cheap,i pay on the leon cupra 525 protected ncb,tpft thats not bad i think and petrol is from euro to £ is £1.26p.
i was checking out how much insurance for me back in uk and your looking at like £1,100:confused:.
id seen a aston martin v8 or v12 vantage a few wks ago on dublin plates up in dublin ..........2010 i think it was so they work on the engine cc so that a wopping 2350 euro a yr!!!!!!:eek:...LOL WTF good old euro zone for you ,irish gov prob getting a good wack outta it also :crap::rolleyes:
old skool turbo power
10-01-2013, 01:26
The stupid thing is , people with really massive engined cars will do low mileage say 3 to 6 K max - they pay the most tax based on CO2 emissions. Those with small engines will drive the most and pay the least tax, however because the big engined cars are doing less mileage they put out less CO2 than the small engined cars doing 15K+ miles a year!:wasntme:
How does taxing a person more for doing less mileage help the environment in the scenario above?
Car tax should be the same for all cars as its meant to pay for the upkeep of the roads.
Bring in per mile charging, the more miles you do the more you pay - that is the only way to force people to think about using their cars if they could walk to the shops..
small car 180 Gram per mile , 20K per year = 3,600,000 Gs of CO2 = Less tax more pollution
Big car 280 Gram per mile , 12K per year = 3,360,000 Gs of CO2 = more tax less pollution:cartman::cartman::cartman::cartman:
good point there made:agree:so much for the goverment telling you that we have to cut down on our CO2:confused:.....its a good point that J C said on top gear about electric cars...all sounds very good and yes,it can kinda work but in all honestley what good is the car when there is only so many charge points all over the uk,and even then you can only go so far till it all runs out....then the gov have to build the electric stations to charge up all these cars...and then charge & WAIT till you have full power.just think if one day your on a A road or a night time thinking you can reach the next station and then you run out :scared:
Perhaps the answer is standardised swappable batteries.
Then if you do run out, the AA can arrive with some charged batteries and swap them over and away you go.
Then at the charge point or filling station you just leave you nearly empty batteries and fit charged ones for the cost of the extra electricity to charge them, and carry straight on with your journey.
In the nanny state world of Health & Safety, that's never gonna happen, Ian.
I have just got my self a new tuition car and the road tax is FREE:coffee::smokin:
as has been pointed out i do 25000 miles a year so in all fairness i should really be contributing to the upkeep of the roads, i equal it out by paying tax on the 5 that barely does 1k per year. At least that's what i tell myself.......:laugh:
Penfold aka The Dealer
10-01-2013, 08:40
I have just got my self a new tuition car and the road tax is FREE:coffee::smokin:
as has been pointed out i do 25000 miles a year so in all fairness i should really be contributing to the upkeep of the roads, i equal it out by paying tax on the 5 that barely does 1k per year. At least that's what i tell myself.......:laugh:
Yeh I used to laugh at paying £20 tax and doing 35k hard miles in my old learner car...
In the nanny state world of Health & SafetyI was thinking of light weight, not back and joints straining lead acid batteries and spanners being needed.
Batteries will evolve. Like we have for cordless tools now, Lithium Ion, weigh barely anything. So changing the ones to power a car may become easy and quick to do.
It might be a small pack on it's own wheels which drop out like Thunderbird two, floats away on a mag lev in the forecourt floor and the replacement floats into the car chassis and clamps itself in place whilst your paying the bill.
The spent battery then joins a queue of other batteries in the building and is contactlessly inductively charged as it passes toward the front, ready to be dispensed into the next car.
Friction free and with no mechanical parts to wear out and no need for a human other than perhaps taking the cash at the til.
:they is a main motorway that goes from the eastside to the west side of the country(galway to dublin)distance would be like going from bham to blackpool roughley,and that is a brand new fresh part of the motorway,its like the uk aroads double dual carraige way,3 tolls and thats it,
What! Massive VED and massive fuel duty AND tolls! :xbones:
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