Koni Suspension

[Wallace]

Hi all,

Following on from this thread: http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=30543

PLEASE FAMILIARISE YOURSELF WITH ALL THE INFORMATION IN THIS THREAD, so you are happy with what is on offer, should you have a question that has not already been raised then please feel free to do so.

Please note: I have opted out of springs on this group-buy – it’s mostly due to the lack of stock from Koni direct! - If things had been a simple kit, readily available then we could have progressed with a ‘FULL’ kit to include springs, but this has taken up enough time and just hasn’t been straight forward. There are numerous suppliers of Koni springs on the internet.

This is now your chance to speak up if you are wanting Koni Suspension Parts – And I propose that ALL monies are paid by the END OF DECEMBER, to enable us to make the purchase beginning of JANUARY? It goes without saying that some people (myself being one) get paid at the beginning of the month, if this is the case then speak up and we will together agree a confirmed date
KEY FACTS
· The KIT Comprises of: Pair Rear Shocks(adjustable)+Pair Front Shocks(adjustable)-Phase 2 ONLY!
· All monies are to be paypal’d to: shop@rtoc.org (shop@rtoc.org) on an agreed day/date (this will extend for perhaps 1 week only)
· Within this payment YOU MUST include: your user name, your name, and your preferred delivery address
· Within the payment, PLEASE INCLUDE an extra £10 for delivery to your specified delivery address – If purchasing from SOUTHERN IRELAND/HIGHLANDS etc delivery cost is £15 – If purchasing from the CHANNEL ISLANDS delivery cost is £23

NEITHER THE CLUB NOR MYSELF will deal with the actual despatching/delivering of the items-this is to be done by Koni, all we will do is forward the appropriate information to them (This charge is STANDARD RATE, whether you purchase just 1 set, or more sets!)
Listed below, are what Koni (UK Based distributor) are offering at trade prices, assuming we (the club members) can generate a large enough order to get the trade prices: 10 kits+

*FRONT SHOCK ABSORBERS (pair) – Phase 2 vehicles only - Part No. 8741/1167-SPORT @ £180.00 incl VAT
EXAMPLE HERE: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Koni-Renault-R5-Super-GT-Turbo-C405-phase-II-87-90-Front-Sport-Shocks-Dampers-/271037370598?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4011623711697856765%26pid%3 D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D271037370598% 26


*REAR SHOCKS ABSORBERS (pair)– Phase 1 & 2 compatible – Part No. 26/1299-SPORT @ £96.00 incl VAT
EXAMPLE HERE: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Koni-Renault-R5-Super-GT-Turbo-C405-phase-II-87-90-Rear-Sport-Shocks-Dampers-/280943676566?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41698c4c96

TOTAL FOR KIT = £276.00 INCLUDING VAT

GRAND TOTAL FOR KIT INCLUDING DELIVERY (MAINLAND ONLY) = £286.00 INCLUDING £10 DELIVERY CHARGE!

There is bound to be things I’ve missed, or further queries, but I have tried to keep this as simple as possible:

(1) Add your name to the list on this thread, once we have the required numbers (fingers crossed)we can agree a money transfer day.
(2) Total up yourself (including delivery charge!) what you owe, send the money to the club WITH YOUR DETAILS.
(3) Beginning of January we place an order.
(4) Delivery date T.B.C from Koni, Wallace to advise via Koni and club website.

[Wallace]

(1)Wallace
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[Mart]

Top top work Alex :agree: :cool:

(1) Wallace
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[Fishey]

(1) Wallace
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[Numptysnumnuts]

(1) Wallace
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[Logg]

(1) Wallace
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[1988cab]

(1) Wallace
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[LiamR]

(1) Wallace
(2) Mart
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(7) Liamr..
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[Big Steve - Raider]

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[Nottswoody]

(1) Wallace
(2) Mart
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(9)Nottswoody
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[Mr Raider]

(1) Wallace
(2) Mart
(3) Fishey
(4) Numptysnumnuts
(5) Logg
(6) 1988cab
(7) Liamr..
(8) Big Steve - Raider
(9)Nottswoody
(10)Mr Raider

[MikeA]

If I'm honest I'd rather pay in January sometime. Bit tight with Xmas and all but will do what needs to be done.

Thanks again to all for arranging.

(1) Wallace
(2) Mart
(3) Fishey
(4) Numptysnumnuts
(5) Logg
(6) 1988cab
(7) Liamr..
(8) Big Steve - Raider
(9)Nottswoody
(10)Mr Raider
(11) MikeA

[Wallace]

Nice one guys:agree:

I will contact PPD tmrw,and see if perhaps if we gave them a deposit then we can reserve what we require.

I'm going to suggest we aim to make the FULL payment within the first 2wks of January.

To keep this thread to a minimum, could peps just post if they can't or have a problem with paying around then?Ok guys......12 'kits' have been ordered from PPD with our name on them!

I sincerely ask that if your name is on the list-please please do not mess about when paying time arrives!

They have agreed to order them in WITHOUT a deposit, and are happy to be left with maybe ONE kit, but not any more!

RTOC rule of 3 cannot come into play here:agree:

Once they contact me to say they have arrived, I'll let u all know:agree:

[LiamR]

I agree, thanks for sorting this. A great group buy :)

[Mr Raider]

Hats off to Wallace (Alex) for sorting this mega deal out, top man! got the cash good to go when required :agree: :)

[Wallace]

Nice one guys:agree:

As above Ian and I agree, let's start getting monies paid over now:agree:

Please please don't forget the required information, user name etc!!!

And just be prepared to wait, they are in manufacturing now-so can't expect anything till end of January I would have thought as its xmas etc

Once again, as soon as I know anything I will post on here:agree:

[Jonny Hogan]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

urgh ... had a week or so away from the forum.

I am absolutely needing one of these kits - is there anyway wallace you'd be able to add another numpty on there ???

J

(1) Wallace
(2) Mart
(3) Fishey
(4) Numptysnumnuts
(5) Logg
(6) 1988cab
(7) Liamr..
(8) Big Steve - Raider
(9) Nottswoody
(10) Mr Raider
(11) MikeA
(12) Jonny Hogan

[Ian S]

Please send your payment to shop@rtoc.org

PLEASE NOTE:

We are paying £286 to Koni so you have to make sure we receive £286 to pay them on your behalf.

PayPal deduct £9.92 if you send £286 (3.4% + 20p) so if you use PayPal you have to pay their fee yourself.

Or PayPal us £296.30.




If anyone needs or prefers to use bank transfer then:

Barclays
RTOC Shop
20-72-89
40934070

I think there's no message area with that so you'll have to tell me by PM your
• delivery address
• real name
• user name

Thanks :)



PS:
It might be that if your PayPal account is in credit, there's no fee.

PayPal Gift should be OK as you can trust us :) :scared:

But do PayPal get a bit funny when a lot of gifts are received? Especially as it's a large sum and we're not exactly a personal account holder. I've heard forum talk of them locking accounts but not seen the evidence.

Maybe we'll be OK with few gifts if most are bank transfer?

Bank Transfer is good. And then send me a PM with your details :)

See how helpful we are :) For an easy life we could have just said PayPal us £296.30.




We may put the price up for any left over from this group buy and put them in the shop but for now RTOC is not making any profit of these.

[Wallace]

Ian, you are a true gent! - Thank you!

I'll BAC's mine over too.

[gttjames]

cheers ian. For your info i have recieved alot of paypal 'gift' payments and sent and never had a issue.

Il check paypal balance etc and make payment, cheers

[Ian S]

We probably can add a pair of rears to the order if anyone wanted. We can certainly ask PPD.

There shouldn't be much wrong with good second hand ones though? The rear are mono-tubes and though I don't know it for a fact, maybe they last longer? Hunch based on that Bilstein mono-tubes are said to last very well.

In the other thread someone may have wanted Koni phase one, I seem to recall that some eBay trader may have been offering the Phase one shocks, but that may be the same story as the Fiat Cinquecento, listed on not actually available, and de-listed from eBay when I asked him and he then phoned (PPD) Koni to find what I already knew, they were discontinued, but he was also told they are only available if 100 are ordered.

[Ian S]

Now that we've reached 10 payments, is our order going in this week?The order went in already on the basis that we would get the payments and I (the shop) would buy the remaining few kits if there were any. :) See post 16.

Just in case some people are wondering, some extra were added to the original 12 in that post.
:cool: :)
Will get this payment in tomorrow, is that still okYes, of course :)

[LYNCHSTAR]

is this deal on a full kit only. i only want front shocks for my phase 2 i have rear ones already.:)

[Wallace]

is this deal on a full kit only. i only want front shocks for my phase 2 i have rear ones already.:)


As per PM - Yes full kit only:agree:

At these prices its worth getting new and selling your old:agree:

All i will say is, dont delay please because once they arrive in the UK the payment will be sent straight away - this group-buy has gone very smoothly and i want this wrapped up, as does Ian i would assume;)

[Nottswoody]

1) Wallace - Paid Bank
(2) Mart - Paid Bank
(3) Fishey - Paid Bank
(4) Numptysnumnuts - Paid PayPal
(5) Logg - Paid PayPal
(6) 1988cab - Paid Bank
(7) Liamr.. - Paid Bank
(8) Big Steve - Raider - Paid Bank
(9) Nottswoody - Paid Bank
(10) Mr Raider - Paid Bank
(11) MikeA - Paid Bank
(12) Jonny Hogan -
(13) gttjames - Paid PayPal
(14) Lynchstar - Paid PayPal

[Wallace]

Good effort everyone:agree::agree:

Thank you:agree:

All in all, gone/going well:agree::agree:

As soon as i hear anything i'll post up here, and if by around mid Jan i've heard nothing, i will contact them for some kind of update:agree:

[Wallace]

Don't hold me to this:wasntme:

Koni uk are saying: first batch (10+ kits) will arrive to them End of January?!

Second batch: Mid February?!

So really by the end/mid February it'll be a done deal:agree::D

I'll keep you all posted:agree:

[Ian S]

Come the time, PPD will send me the pro-former, I'll pay it and forward the list over to them. They'll then send them all at once I expect.

[Wallace]

im ready, at work so il make payment tonight when i get home:)


Nice one James:agree:

The payment effort is appreciated everyone- because its just saved a load of faffing about:agree:

[Ian S]

..Still need you're delivery address.

Can you PM it to me please.

[Wallace]

Hey all,

Koni have had delivery of all the Rears:agree:

Fronts will be next week:agree:

Once again, when alls complete we'll start getting the money over to them (Thank you Ian:)) and can at that point get an idea of when we'll see them on our doorsteps:D

Keep ya posted:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

[LYNCHSTAR]

cant wait to recieve them.:)

[Mr Raider]

Still need you're delivery address.

Can you PM it to me please.

Pm'd to you Ian, sorry didnt see this post! looking forward to the end of the month! :D

[Wallace]

Right then guys, PPD called me on Friday to say they had 11 kits in stock in the UK ready to ship!

Soooo as of today, Ians has VERY kindly arrange the payment and sent them the individuals shipping details:D

Obviously that doesn't complete everyone's orders, so i have taken it upon myself to just send them to the people who have either expressed that they need them quickly! Or in the order of payment!

Forgive me if this causes a problem or pisses you off - buuuut I can't mess around giving preference to each individual!

THESE ARE THE MEMBERS THAT WILL BE ON THE NEXT DELIVERY!!!
(1) Lynchstar
(2) gttjames
(3) jonnyhogan

Once I hear from PPD, I will pm you guys and post on here to finish this and get you guys sorted! I'm sorry it's not been in one hit, but that's been out of my control!

[Nottswoody]

Ooooh I was just thinking of these today :) iv had crap or second hand crap on my car some owning it and although iv made the car abit quicker iv never had confidence in the corner and the rides been terrible on my back lol... Oooh I hope these help?

Thanks to you guys for organising this I will have these on the weekend they arrive :cool: top blokes the both of yer I will get you a drink when I see you cheers

[Mr Raider]

Well said :agree: :) its an awesome deal really, cant wait to get them its like christmas allover again! :cool:

[Numptysnumnuts]

Just out of curiosity and please don't laugh:rolleyes:

There is no special tooling needed to swap these out:scratch: Bit late in the day I know beings as they are here somewhere :cool:

[B18ftMOJO5]

Do you have to order a complete set. I just need some adjustable rears. I have working leda ones in the front.

[Nottswoody]

Just out of curiosity and please don't laugh:rolleyes:

There is no special tooling needed to swap these out:scratch: Bit late in the day I know beings as they are here somewhere :cool:

I wouldn't of thought so.. Just be aware that you will probably need new bearings maybe rubber mounts and check your top hats.. I believe Bigfoot was buying some in to help out members..

[Ian S]

For the top you'll need the Allan key and 21mm(or 22mm?) ring spanner.

Perhaps spring compressors.

[Ian S]

Do you have to order a complete set. I just need some adjustable rears. I have working leda ones in the front.There might be some used one for sale from buyer in this thread.

We only ordered full sets from Koni. That's what they got for us. We have another 3 full sets spare.

[Nottswoody]

Wow thanks guys these just popped up through the post.. Thanks again..

[Mr Raider]

Big thanks guys, took delivery of the Koni's this afternoon :) :agree:

[MikeA]

Just got my delivered. All looks good so far so big thumbs up and thank you to everybody involved for arranging this! :agree: :D

[Logg]

Got mine today as well

thanks everyone involed in sorting these out:agree:

[Ian S]

Very good :) I paid for the 11 sets on Monday afternoon so that's nice and quick processing :)

What are you all doing for springs? Re-using what you have?

[Alex]

I must say this has been one of the best group buys I've seen on the RTOC - most fall by the wayside before even getting off the ground!

Side decals anyone...... :scared:

[Nottswoody]

I will either be using 50mm apex springs or 40mm spax not sure yet really if I had of been off work today for happier times they would of been on my car by dinner..

You do know there's going to be a thread on from this "what set up you using today?" Lol

As for decals I was thinking of taking off my oe Renault badge and replacing it with some big "I'VE GOT KAHONIES INIT" :scared:

[Fishey]

Big thanks to everyone involved in this, got mine today, hopefully have them on Saturday morning. :)

[Nottswoody]

Suspension Tuning Tips by Bob Tunnell

Before getting into specifics of suspension tuning, here are some thoughts about suspension tuning drawn from my own experience...
1. When listening to advice, consider the source and the context. Many of the Internet special interest groups are a wonderful source of information. But one of the biggest drawbacks to all the advice you see on SIGs is that the authors are rarely qualified to offer SPECIFIC advice for YOUR car. It's easy to SOUND like an authority... it's rare to actually BE one. When reading their advice, pay particular attention to what make and model of car they own and drive, what modifications have they made that are truly applicable to your car, how experienced they are, what discipline are they tuning for (autocross, road race, street, track, etc.), and how closely their budget resembles yours.

2. Be specific in your analysis. If your car is pushing, pay particular attention to *when* it pushes. Is it on initial turn-in? Is it mid corner? Is it on corner exit? Or is it a combination of all three? For example, if a car pushes in mid corner, but not upon entry or exit, chances are the problem lies with alignment, spring, or bars... not the shocks. So it's critical to properly identify the symptom and isolate the true cause of the problem... the treatment needs to address the root cause.

3. Fix the end of the car that has the problem. If your car isn't turning in properly, don't adjust the rear of the car to try to make the front end work better. Conversely, if the car is extremely tail happy because of low rear grip, decreasing the front grip to compensate may make the car feel balanced, but it will ultimately make you slower. Often in Stock class autocrossing or road racing we're forced into adjusting the "wrong" end of the car because rules limit our ability to adjust properly, but these methods should be considered a last resort.

4. Don't discount driving technique as a big factor. Most drivers don't like to hear this, but it's true. I can't tell you the number of times I've been told by a driver, "My M3 pushes like a pig!" But when I get in the car it seems perfectly balanced to me. I'll ask the driver what his previous car was and invariably it was a Camaro, Mustang, Corvette, or other high horsepower RWD car. M3s were not built to handle the same as pony cars and they cannot be driven quickly with the same technique. Slow sweepers in particular need to be entered slowly, under control, and "carved"... not tail-out Dukes Of Hazard style. And the best part -- changing your driving technique doesn't cost you anything!

5. For the best results stick with one tuner. Professional high performance tuners know more than anyone else about how to make your car fast. We work on making cars faster and handle better day in and day out. We know which products perform best together and which ones don't. By mixing and matching products -- usually in an attempt to get the lowest price -- customers often end up with a car that doesn't respond like any of the advertising claims they've been reading. Put a pot pouri of components on your car and you'll likely end up with a mixed bag of results and wasting your money. Different tuners have their areas of expertise and their advice.... spend a little extra, discuss your needs and budget with a professional tuner, and you'll likely get far more value for your money.

6. "Compromise cars" will not do everything well. I am frequently asked how to set up a car that will be good on the track, but still plenty comfortable to drive on the street. Not everyone can afford to own enough cars to have one for a commuter, one for autocrossing, one for road racing, one for rallying, and another for concourse events. Most of us are forced to live with compromises... one, or maybe two, cars that have to perform a variety of functions. When asking a tuner for advice on how to set up your car, you must first determine in your own mind what compromises you'll be able to live with and be certain to communicate your needs. If winning autocrosses is more important than having a luxurious ride during your 5-minute commute, chances are you'll be happy having your car set up more for performance. But if you drive an hour to work over frost heaves and tar strips, you probably should set up your car more for comfort and leave the WRC Championship for another time. BMWs are amazing cars and can do a lot of things well, but don't expect a tuner to do the impossible.



And about the following Shock Tuning Guide in particular...

7. The following guide is for tuning shocks for road racing -- autocross tuning can be very different. Road racing maneuvers are almost always done "in phase," meaning the link between driver input and vehicle response is usually linear, or very close to it. In Autocross we frequently encounter "out of phase" maneuvers, meaning secondary inputs are often necessary before the vehicle has even had time to respond to the initial input... slaloms and high speed offsets are good examples of maneuvers rarely encountered in road racing. The suspension tuning is often one quite differently.

8. Guides like these almost always assume you are able to change all elements of the suspension. The guide below (and most guides like them) are based on the assumption that you have already optimized the spring rates and that you are dealing with a fairly balanced, competent, road car. For most of us we rarely encounter this "perfect" situation. In Showroom Stock road racing or Stock Category autocross, for example, we are faced with preparing a car as it comes from the factory and cannot change spring rates. We often deviate from these basic guidelines to "trick" the car into doing something that would make factory shock engineers cringe. <g>

9. Make the shocks do their job and let the other suspension components do theirs. The primary job of the shocks is to do two things -- affect ride quality and control the rate of weight transfer. Don't ask them to act as springs (unless you're stuck with the dilemmas I presented in #1 or #2). In terms of handling control, shocks do very little in the middle of a corner. Springs and sway bars have a much greater affect on handling in the middle of a corner. By paying particular attention to #4, you'll have a better idea whether the problem lies with your shocks or elsewhere.



And one last general guideline to keep in mind...

10. In general, stiffening one end of the car will reduce the mechanical grip on that end. In other words, when you raise the spring rate, increase sway bar size or stiffness, stiffen the bump or rebound of a shock, install firmer bushings, etc. you will reduce the grip on that end and decrease traction. To increase grip you must lower the spring rate, increase the sway bar size of stiffness, soften the shocks, use softer bushings, etc. (Tire pressure is another contributing factor, but that's a discussion for another day.)





KONI shock tuning guide
Suggested Adjustment Procedures For Road Racing Use
(from the KONI NA Factory Tuning Guide)

Adjusting The COMPRESSION (Bump) Damping Control (Very Important to do this FIRST!)

Bump damping controls the unsprung weight of the vehicle (wheels, axles, etc.). It controls the upward movement of the suspension as when hitting a bump in the track. It should not be used to control the downward movement of the vehicle when it encounters dips. Also, it should not be used to control roll or bottoming.

Depending on the vehicle, the ideal bump setting can occur at any point within the adjustment range. This setting will be reached when "side-hop" or "walking" in a bumpy turn is minimal and the ride is not uncomfortably harsh. At any point other than this ideal setting, the "side-hopping" condition will be more pronounced and the ride may be too harsh.

STEP 1: Set all four dampers on minimum bump and minimum rebound settings.

STEP 2: Drive one or two laps to get the feel of the car. Note: When driving the car during the bump adjustment phase, disregard body lean or roll and concentrate solely on how the car feels over bumps. Also, try to notice if the car "walks" or "side-hops" on a rough turn.

STEP 3: Increase bump adjustment clockwise 3 clicks on all four dampers. Drive the car one or two laps. Repeat Step 3 until a point is reached where the car starts to feel hard over bumpy surfaces.

STEP 4: Back off the bump adjustment two clicks. The bump control is now set. Note: The back off point will probably be reached sooner on one end of the vehicle than the other. If this occurs, keep increasing the bump on the soft end until it, too, feels hard. Then back it off 2 clicks. The bump control is now set.

Adjusting the REBOUND Damping Control

Once you have found what you feel to be the best bump setting on all four wheels, you are now ready to proceed with adjusting the rebound. The rebound damping controls the transitional roll (lean) as when entering a turn. It does *not* limit the total amount of roll; it *does* limit how *fast* this total roll angle is achieved. How much the vehicle actually leans is determined by other things such as spring rate, sway bars, roll center, ride heights, etc.

It should be noted that too much rebound on either end of the vehicle will cause an initial loss of lateral acceleration (cornering grip) a that end which will cause the vehicle to oversteer or understeer excessively when entering a turn. Too much rebound control in relation to spring rate will cause a condition known as "jacking down." This is a condition where, after hitting a bump and compressing the spring, the damper does not allow the spring to return to a neutral position before the next bump is encountered.

This repeats with each subsequent bump until the car is actually lowered onto the bump stops. Contact with the bump stops causes a drastic increase in roll stiffness. If this condition occurs on the front, the car will understeer; if it occurs on the rear, the car will oversteer.

STEP 1: With rebound set on full soft and the bump control set from your earlier testing, drive the car one of two laps, paying particular attention to how the car rolls when entering a turn.

STEP 2: Increase rebound damping three sweeps (or 3/4 turn) on all four dampers and drive the car one or two laps. Repeat Step 2 until the car enters the turns smoothly (no drastic attitude changes) and without leaning excessively. An increase in the rebound stiffness beyond this point is unnecessary and may result in a loss of cornering power. Note: As with the bump settings, this point will probably be reached at one end of the car before the other.

However, individual drivers may find it desirable to have a car that assumes an oversteering or understeering attitude when entering a turn. This can be easily "dialed-in" using slightly excessive rebound settings at either end.

[1988cab]

Got mine today too, quality! Cheers everyone!! Think I will have to get some new springs, only have 50mm ones and don't wanna f up my new Koni's by going too low?

[LYNCHSTAR]

still waiting for mine what are the best springs to get who,s using what.

[Jonny Hogan]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Hi guys, yet to receive shocks but hopefully any day now, also yet to make a choice on springs ... i did find the folowing though on the GT Tuning web site ... has anyone else considered this ? Is it required ? Apparantly GT Tuning think so !



NEW GTT Camber Correctors (S106)
Essential new product for all lowered GT Turbo's. GTT Camber Correctors allow the user adjustment of the front camber settings. This is necessary due to the excessive negative camber that automatically occurs when the front is lowered, i.e. the wheels 'splay out' at the bottom. The camber correctors (one for each side) are fully adjustable. allowing any competent tyre and wheel alignment centre to re-set the camber to 1º NEGATIVE (standard setting).

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

If anyone in the south east needs springs swapping/top mounts swapping and dont have the relavent tools etc, just give me a shout.

[Wallace]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Hi guys, yet to receive shocks but hopefully any day now, also yet to make a choice on springs ... i did find the folowing though on the GT Tuning web site ... has anyone else considered this ? Is it required ? Apparantly GT Tuning think so !



NEW GTT Camber Correctors (S106)
Essential new product for all lowered GT Turbo's. GTT Camber Correctors allow the user adjustment of the front camber settings. This is necessary due to the excessive negative camber that automatically occurs when the front is lowered, i.e. the wheels 'splay out' at the bottom. The camber correctors (one for each side) are fully adjustable. allowing any competent tyre and wheel alignment centre to re-set the camber to 1º NEGATIVE (standard setting).

Jonnyhogan - Lynchstar

Juuuust in case you've missed it, please read my post 34:agree::agree:

[Wallace]

Right then guys, PPD called me on Friday to say they had 11 kits in stock in the UK ready to ship!

Soooo as of today, Ians has VERY kindly arrange the payment and sent them the individuals shipping details:D

Obviously that doesn't complete everyone's orders, so i have taken it upon myself to just send them to the people who have either expressed that they need them quickly! Or in the order of payment!

Forgive me if this causes a problem or pisses you off - buuuut I can't mess around giving preference to each individual!

THESE ARE THE MEMBERS THAT WILL BE ON THE NEXT DELIVERY!!!
(1) Lynchstar
(2) gttjames
(3) jonnyhogan

Once I hear from PPD, I will pm you guys and post on here to finish this and get you guys sorted! I'm sorry it's not been in one hit, but that's been out of my control!


Diisss one:agree:

[Ian S]

GTT Camber CorrectorsThese might be the ones where you need to file slots from the bolt holes in the new Koni's when they join to the stub axle carrier.

Another way is camber correcting bolts.

[Ian S]

Suspension Tuning Tips by Bob TunnellOnly read the last bit. These Konis don't have bump adjustment. They don't have a load of clicks. The rear is three settings I think, and the front might turn smoothly, I don't remember how many turns.

Koni do suggest starting off with soft all around.

[Nottswoody]

Only read the last bit. These Konis don't have bump adjustment. They don't have a load of clicks. The rear is three settings I think, and the front might turn smoothly, I don't remember how many turns.

Koni do suggest starting off with soft all around.

Cheers Ian if you could do the delete thing I just copied and pasted on my iPhone.. I'm putting these on today so any suggestions would be magic :)

[Nottswoody]

Iv fitted the rear but they seem very soft and bouncy will have to look into the settings first as I haven't a clue.. Cupa tea first then crack on with the fronts :)

[chris]

Iv fitted the rear but they seem very soft and bouncy will have to look into the settings first as I haven't a clue.. Cupa tea first then crack on with the fronts :)

:agree: take some pictures mate

[Nottswoody]

Iv fitted the rear but they seem very soft and bouncy will have to look into the settings first as I haven't a clue.. Cupa tea first then crack on with the fronts :)

Right then they are on and iv been out.. Tried it with 50s and yep it's too low I think so first chance I get there going to 40s the 50s are just too uncomfortable.. The backs are Definatley too soft I think so i am going to adjust them soon as someone else works out how to doit because I can't lol..

[LiamR]

Mine have arrived :) top job guys. Well done.

It's what the rtoc is all about :agree:

[Ian S]

adjust them soon as someone else works outIIRC, you push and twist them (off the car). Is there a button to hold down at the same time. Weren't there some instructions?

[Bigfoot]

IIRC, you push and twist them (off the car). Is there a button to hold down at the same time. Weren't there some instructions?

The rear suspension you push in a button to them adjust to the 3 settings, the tops you click between each setting. Well on the older ones they did.

[Nottswoody]

IIRC, you push and twist them (off the car). Is there a button to hold down at the same time. Weren't there some instructions?

Just pictures really the fronts are simple the rears I couldn't do I pushed them all the way in but couldn't feel anything engage.. Iv watched the you tube clips but there all different set ups.. When dose any man follow instructions? :)

[Nottswoody]

Iv probably missed something but I saw no buttons

[Bigfoot]

Just pictures really the fronts are simple the rears I couldn't do I pushed them all the way in but couldn't feel anything engage.. Iv watched the you tube clips but there all different set ups.. When dose any man follow instructions? :)

Think you have to spin it till the button actually pushing in properly and locks it in place for you then to go through the settings.

[Nottswoody]

Think you have to spin it till the button actually pushing in properly and locks it in place for you then to go through the settings.

I think I will need a vice to do this as its way to hard

[Bigfoot]

I think I will need a vice to do this as its way to hard

Whats too hard?

[Ian S]

Should be easy. No tools needed.

[Logg]

Its very easy mate once you have the nack.

1 pull the plastic boot down

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/L0GGTT/411B3B30-9FF9-430F-8D58-214D0B83EFC5-11117-000009E823F58D64.jpg

2 at the bottom of the rod theres a sliver cap push this up and under the plastic spacer you'll find the button

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/L0GGTT/C3E13BA2-817D-4F11-9978-D910FEB8DB28-11117-000009E82C72682D.jpg

3 push button and twist the other end of the shock.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/L0GGTT/98BD2AC4-5AB1-404B-AC57-FE25C93E8446-11117-000009E83459A073.jpg

Hope that helps mate

[Nottswoody]

I knew someone would come to the rescue :) :niceone:
I didn't even see that at all so could this be done with one end still attached to the body? Bit of a gaff getting drivers side as the tanks there..

[LiamR]

And has anyone got a little guide and pictures for adjusting the fronts??:)

[Logg]

And has anyone got a little guide and pictures for adjusting the fronts??:)

I think you need the shock built up for the fronts. but going by the little koni pictures its just a case of locking the shaft with a spanner and then putting a allen key through the hole in the top of the shaft and twisting

[Logg]

I knew someone would come to the rescue :) :niceone:
I didn't even see that at all so could this be done with one end still attached to the body? Bit of a gaff getting drivers side as the tanks there..

I think you might be able to do it by unbolting just one of of the ends of the rear shock. So sort of on the car :crap:

[Nottswoody]

I think you need the shock built up for the fronts. but going by the little koni pictures its just a case of locking the shaft with a spanner and then putting a allen key through the hole in the top of the shaft and twisting

:agree: the fronts were the easy part the 11mm nut on top is for holding while you tighten the shocks so you don't have to hold the shaft with mawlgrips.. Realised that after the event :p the stick something thin enough in the little holes clockwise for hard anti for soft..

[Nottswoody]

I think you might be able to do it by unbolting just one of of the ends of the rear shock. So sort of on the car :crap:

I would think so well that what I'm going to do.. :agree:

[LiamR]

Thanks for the replies guys :)

[Ian S]

It might be nice to have a write and and some photos for the articles section.

Showing these being fitted and how to adjust them. And some reports on the setting that you'll all used. The springs heights compared to OE if you can get that measurement. This is because the ride will be harder the nearer you are to the bump stops.

[Big Steve - Raider]

It might be nice to have a write and and some photos for the articles section.

Showing these being fitted and how to adjust them. And some reports on the setting that you'll all used. The springs heights compared to OE if you can get that measurement. This is because the ride will be harder the nearer you are to the bump stops.

Yes defdinately! :agree::agree::agree::agree:

Advice from :mart: on the best settings would be a boon also!

[Ian S]

Just remembering something someone recently posted about the back of the car breaking away if the rear is hard compared to the front.

Mine use to do that if pushed hard enough. The rear was very hard from the Bilstein tarmac rally shocks, but yielded over big bumps at higher speeds, eg, 70mph.

For roundabouts and back doubles it was excellent, the back was 'planted'.

But on bends that the front was on the limit at about 40mph, the back would swing out after the bend which was not so good.

And for 40mph straight 'flat' lanes, the back could bounce on the tyre pneumatics and the rear skit side to side, which was rubbish. I realised recently, 6 years after the event, that I should have wound the rear trailing arms up quite a bit so there was still downward movement in the rear suspension once the shocks were on, as those very high pressure gas shocks had pushed the trailing arms down to the limit of the shocks outward extension. If I parked the car on uneven road one rear wheel would be in the air!

I presume this meant that with the higher loading from a faster sustained bend, the inner rear wheel would lift off the road, where a softer rear, or one with available downward wheel movement, would keep the inner wheel down enough to give some grip.

It's taken me all these years to realise that! I kind of woke up the other week with it all clear in my head.

[Jonny Hogan]

Diisss one:agree:


That's cool mate absolutely fine by me, many thanks.

(note that PPD will be contacting me direct re my order as its a VAT free delivery to Jersey ... thanks for your help on this also)

J

[Jonny Hogan]

These might be the ones where you need to file slots from the bolt holes in the new Koni's when they join to the stub axle carrier.

Another way is camber correcting bolts.


Hi ian sorry mate but are you saying either the GTT plates or camber correcting bolts are nescessary or not ? Cheers

[Ian S]

Neither necessary.

Lowering the car increases the negative camber for the front wheels.

This reduces the contact patch a bit on the straights. But may improve grip a bit for the outside front wheel on a corner. But may decrease grip for the inner wheel.

The camber correctors may improve the contact patch on the straight, but may make it worse for both front wheels on a corner.

[Nottswoody]

So iv just been out in the 5 on my private road picking up parts and gave it some wellie round the bends.. I'm happy with the back on soft as it stuck v well of course I will try different setting when I have time.. But the fronts on soft are a little slippy over 70 so I think I'm going to try them a bit harder for cornering.. Anyone else got them on yet? Any other feedback?

[Mart]

Rear ride-height also plays a part - The damper setting won't make much difference if the rear is slammed to the deck; ie, v little shock movement.

I'd say for the majority of fitment, the mid-setting on the Koni rears will be sufficient enough, even for track use. It's not like the 3 settings are going to give you that much to play with anyway :)

Front setting is personal choice, trial & error for sure, combined with spring rates & height drop of course, but don't expect miracles to happen by simply winding the hardness in/out if the rest of the suspension setup is worn to buggery, and/or the geo' is miles off.

Wishbone/arb bushes, track-rod & ball-joints, steering rack itself, even engine mounts, all play a part as well.

Likewise, with tyres - You can have the full-on Mansell setup, but the dude with 888's will be lapping you in no time if you're running 'wanli ditchfinders'...

[Nottswoody]

Everything's newish no more than a year including my tyres but they are only road tyres after all. I had full wheel alignment probably two months ago.. A lot of the above 70 slide was down to damp conditions aswell but I was pushing it abit as you do.. Don't get me wrong I'm more than happy with the konis I was just hoping someone else tried different set up to just the "soft" setting I tried first.. I looked today in prima racings magazine and they were over £500 :eek: boys we did well.. Thanks again :)

[Wallace]

Everything's newish no more than a year including my tyres but they are only road tyres after all. I had full wheel alignment probably two months ago.. A lot of the above 70 slide was down to damp conditions aswell but I was pushing it abit as you do.. Don't get me wrong I'm more than happy with the konis I was just hoping someone else tried different set up to just the "soft" setting I tried first.. I looked today in prima racings magazine and they were over £500 :eek: boys we did well.. Thanks again :)


:D:Dtis a bloody good price:agree:

Think we all knew once we could get a full kit it was soooo worth it.

My car doesn't even need new suspension yet:laugh: but couldn't resist:wasntme:

Just glad that I could help others out and as a result got mine cheap too:smokin: (I did pay the same as everyone else just for the record;):D)

[Wallace]

Right then guys, PPD called me on Friday to say they had 11 kits in stock in the UK ready to ship!

Soooo as of today, Ians has VERY kindly arrange the payment and sent them the individuals shipping details:D

Obviously that doesn't complete everyone's orders, so i have taken it upon myself to just send them to the people who have either expressed that they need them quickly! Or in the order of payment!

Forgive me if this causes a problem or pisses you off - buuuut I can't mess around giving preference to each individual!

THESE ARE THE MEMBERS THAT WILL BE ON THE NEXT DELIVERY!!!
(1) Lynchstar
(2) gttjames
(3) jonnyhogan

Once I hear from PPD, I will pm you guys and post on here to finish this and get you guys sorted! I'm sorry it's not been in one hit, but that's been out of my control!

Update for you guys still waiting (I wont forget these are still outstanding!!!)

PPD have today 'confirmed' they are due the remainder of the kits 1st week in March!

I say 'confirmed' because the original order of fronts arrived 2 weeks early and the rears arrived 2 weeks late.

Delivery dates from their factory are obviously out of my control, but I won't let this drag on, if they continue to move dates back then I will of course start to kick up a fuss, and get things moving quicker:agree:

[gttjames]

cheers Wallace!

[Wallace]

cheers Wallace!

No worries mate - will keep u guys in the loop:agree:

[Wallace]

QUICK UPDATE:agree:

PPD have taken delivery of the fronts, and the rears are due to them Friday.

Once again this could change, but at present hopefully by the end of next week everyone will have had their kits:agree::agree::agree:

[gttjames]

Nice!

[Numptysnumnuts]

Trying to fit my Koni's and wish I could say its all plane sailing but it ain't. 2 days I have been at it and fitted backs (6 hours for passenger side and 2 hours for drivers) and managed to get the front drivers side apart after 5 hours. Everything welded itself in rust. Will post pictures of my old shocks once I finish.

Question. Does anyone know where I can get the suspension gaiters for fronts and are they needed. Also after the little rubber bush that sits around the base of the smallest top hat. Spoken to Mike who sorted out most of the bits but doesn't have these two parts (need for both sides just in case). At the moment my front s in pieces until I can get these.

[chris]

Trying to fit my Koni's and wish I could say its all plane sailing but it ain't. 2 days I have been at it and fitted backs (6 hours for passenger side and 2 hours for drivers) and managed to get the front drivers side apart after 5 hours. Everything welded itself in rust. Will post pictures of my old shocks once I finish.

Question. Does anyone know where I can get the suspension gaiters for fronts and are they needed. Also after the little rubber bush that sits around the base of the smallest top hat. Spoken to Mike who sorted out most of the bits but doesn't have these two parts (need for both sides just in case). At the moment my front s in pieces until I can get these.

Hi mate if mike aint got them bob will at cgb i had everything for mine

[Numptysnumnuts]

Will give him a go but not sure. Bought a few things from them in the past and whilst they are taken off used 5's they have always been damaged as in broken. Window motors are now paperweights both jammed and the wing mirror is an ashtray as the adjusting wires snapped. Try getting them changed was impossible.

Would these items be new?

[Ian S]

To get those top nuts off I've tended to take the assembled struts to a garage / wheels centre / someone who would do it for a very small fee by using their air tools.

[Numptysnumnuts]

That would be handy except. Rear ones just spun on one side. The one that did come undone has the metallic sleeve from the old suspension strut welded to it through rust and the front strut had the nut jammed solid. Had to cut the rear nut with a dremmel and the the sleeve. As for the front strut that had to have the strut cut just to get the other bits off as it just spun the strut when trying to undo.

[Mart]

Impact wrench makes life easier - Had all 4 shocks swapped over within an hour on Saturday.

Try to source/fit the gaitors, as they do help protect the shock rods.

[Ian S]

front strut had the nut jammed solid....that had to have the strut cut just to get the other bits off as it just spun the strut when trying to undo.Hence the air tools, as Mart has also said.

[Mart]

A decent battery power one is just as good :agree:

[Ian S]

Can you suggest a decent one Mart?

There are some fairly poor battery ones. The Snap On seemed good but at about £300 a bit expensive.

[Bigfoot]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-CP2400-Cordless-Impact-325lb-ft/dp/B000RUA0W6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

this one should be up for the job and a good price for it deliveryed. There are some higher rated ones in Sealey but depends on what else you wanting to use it for.

[Ian S]

The problem with that one would be the 15 year out of date NiCD battery. Permanently flat every time you want to use it. Huge, heavy, slow to charge and soon becoming non chargeable.

For £130 you might just about buy a suitable compressor and air impact wrench. Although you have to haul the hose around and the whole lot adds up to bulky and very loud.

[Bigfoot]

The problem with that one would be the 15 year out of date NiCD battery. Permanently flat every time you want to use it. Huge, heavy, slow to charge and soon becoming non chargeable.

For £130 you might just about buy a suitable compressor and air impact wrench. Although you have to haul the hose around and the whole lot adds up to bulky and very loud.

I know what you mean about the type of battery but you are not going to find one for a reasonable price with a Li-Ion. I got a from CP a CP8748UL with 2 Li-Ion batteries but that came in at just over £250, that was back in Oct 09 and still going strong today.

[Mart]

Can you suggest a decent one Mart?

There are some fairly poor battery ones. The Snap On seemed good but at about £300 a bit expensive.

Snap-on, as you say. Dewalt as well.

The Sealey ones are ok to be fair, but sure, Nicad's don't last forever and its old tech' now. However, for our scenario, you're only on about removing the top shock/rod nut, which any half-decent impact wrench, regardless of battery type fitted, should do with ease.

A normal 13mm, 16mm, and 18mm socket/spanner for all the other strut fixation bolts/nuts.

[chris]

I have a 1/2 inch snap on gun and nothing comes close we have had dewalt,makita,sealey all of them are not very good either the battreys are either no good or they just lack in power

[Big Steve - Raider]

I've got one of THESE (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-cew1000-electric-impact-wrench?da=1&TC=SRC-impact) and it's never let me down! :coffee:

[Numptysnumnuts]

This is all well and good but I doubt an impact wrench would have helped on either front or back in removing the nuts. The nuts were seized solid and upon cutting one open and taking it off the thread of the bolt was inside the nut. Hence why it just spun. The one on the top of the front shock was seized to the shock damper rod and with a nice shiny surface offering no proper grip it would just spin even with one of these. Hence I had to cut the support horizontally to get the fixings and bits and pieces off. To get the nut off the top I had to cut the support vertically to make two square edges to enable grip and then a socket on the top and it came off with minimal effort. And yes as dangerous as it sounds I did try loosening the nut whilst in situ on the car and suspension under tension.

If you look back through this thread or ones that discuss about doing a group buy on these shocks you will find my post stating just how bad my suspension was. My suspension was there for show it didn't do anything other than put pressure on the supports because it was none existent.

I wish it could have been a 4 hour job I really do (would save my ears from a nagging other half) but until you come to do it you never know how long it's likely to take impact driver or not.

I like my trusty ratchet set and torque drivers but would be interested in knowing the benefits of an impact wrench probably air rather than battery

[Wallace]

Hi all,

In response to some PM's, (i know people are still waiting) have spoke to PPD today and the delivery is now due to them early next week.

I'll say it again DON'T HOLD ME TO THIS as its out of my control, and does seem to get shifted, although from what they have said the factory has all the components they need now - BUT - I WILL CONTINUE TO CHASE THEM UP:agree::agree:

Will post up again once I hear or know more:agree::agree:

[Jonny Hogan]

good on you wally

[gttjames]

nice work. No rush for me as just found out my car wont be going into bodyshop for another month as they havnt got room for it, typical I wanted it done over xmas so I could be building it back up now ready for summer. looks like another year I wont get the 5 out till end of summer #joke

Got to say cheers to Wallace though as without him putting in all this effort it would of died like most of the group buys do, and to all the members for coming up with the peanuts!

[Wallace]

nice work. No rush for me as just found out my car wont be going into bodyshop for another month as they havnt got room for it, typical I wanted it done over xmas so I could be building it back up now ready for summer. looks like another year I wont get the 5 out till end of summer #joke

Got to say cheers to Wallace though as without him putting in all this effort it would of died like most of the group buys do, and to all the members for coming up with the peanuts!

Cheers james:agree:

Shame about the 5 but no doubt time will fly as it always does......

I just want the group-buy finished now, so it's a done deal:agree: Fingers crossed for next week:D

[Ian S]

After it is, I think we may still retain the 'dealer' rating and can buy more as we want.

But that's only possibly because everyone in this group paid nice and early so we had some definite buying power to place the large initial order.

[Wallace]

Further Update:agree:

Because of the dates being moved back, PPD have kept me in the loop and forwarded me the emails from holland - today, I have received the same email from the factory in holland as they have, which states that Koni Holland is expecting to ship the remaining kits next Tuesday.

This should mean that PPD UK receive them Wedsnesday!

This should then mean that by the beginning of w/c:18th March, the remaining kits should have been shipped:agree:

Here's hoping:agree:

Once again will update with any further news:agree:

[Wallace]

UPDATE AGAIN.

Long & short is the delivery has been pushed back another week:mad:

The email from Holland states that the kits are being sprayed and delivery is due next week.

I've complained, and expressed that they are now taking the piss because every week I phone them, and everyweek they push the deliver back.
Will do my bests to keep on the case because I'm sick of calling them and want this complete now.

[gttjames]

its ok - my car has only just gone for paint so no use for them for a while. Others might be in a rush though

[Wallace]

its ok - my car has only just gone for paint so no use for them for a while. Others might be in a rush though

:agree:

[Wallace]

THEY HAVE ARRIVED:agree::agree::agree:

We are sorting out payment and sending them the address details, so for the guys still waiting - you will get delivery next week:agree:


So this draws the group-buy to a close, thanks to members paying promptly and getting the info across to Ian:agree:

BIIIIIG THANK YOU IAN:agree::agree:

He has gained nothing from this group-buy but has been a MASSIVE help throughout:agree::agree:

[Ian S]

Thanks :)

And...

Paid :)

The two sets to Carl and James may even be delivered tomorrow.

For the Jonny Hogan set they'll be asking for the payment unless you contact them first :)

There are three sets over in the UK from Holland for anyone else who want some and I'll be putting these in the RTOC shop at some point.

[Ian S]

http://www.rtoc.org/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=110

[gttjames]

got mine:wasntme:

[Nottswoody]

Iv just swopped my 50mm fronts for 30mm and given it 1 full turn on the adjuster will feed back how they feel hopefully if the car starts up :) 50mm was too low and had no travel..

[LYNCHSTAR]

got mine today now need a bloody dry day to fit em.:)

[Jonny Hogan]

Hello all, had a long break from the site as i've just got married and come back from 3-weeks hineymoon - pretty awesome.

I managed to get the Konis fitted to the 5 and we actually used the car on wedding day; we drove off in it which was pretty cool.

I have to say though i'm a little dissapointed with the drop / overall level of the car and wondered how springs had turned out for everyone else.

I went with SPAX springs which provided a 30 mm drop ... to my eyes though the back has gone down too far and there's still too much gap at the front (my mechanic said he's only dropped it by one spline on the rear).

I was wondering if anyone had any photos of how there's ended up looking ... note mine is still riding on OE 13s.

I'm going to take a look at getting a photo up myself so you can see what i mean (currently i've been unable to work out how to post a bloody photo still). Many thanks in advance and all the best - J

[Wallace]

Hi Jonny,

Congrats on the marriage:agree:

Picture attached of how mine sits, if your unhappy with the rears level then further adjustment of the torsion bar is needed - the shocks wont play a part in the ride height.

My springs are a 35mm drop - others arent keen on 35mm as it appear not too different from standard, so once again if you want further drop then try 40mm springs!

[BluntyR5GTT]

hi mate dead easy to post a pic, set up a photobucket account then upload the required pics to there. all you then have to to is select get link and then select the IMG codes, return to here and just paste them onto your post.

[Ian S]

Sorry to disagree with the above post but the gas pressure Konis will lift the back a bit. Non gas pressure won't.

That 'one spline' talk is usually BS. What you do is take out the torsion bar, that releases inner and outer, both of which are splined. You move the trailing arm to where you want it and turn the bars until they go back in. Ideally marking them before removal so afterwards you can see both sides are the same.

Then fit the konis and see the back is now higher. Then take it all off and lower some more!

Me, myself, I left it original height as I wanted sufficient suspension travel over large bumps at high speed. 'Everyone' else is happy to have no rear suspension and the rear punted up by bumps and their spine compressed to the point of pain. And having to drive 20mph slower. Each to their own though.

The Fiat I have now was lowered by the previous owner and even though he cut away maybe 40mm of rear bump stops, it sits on them. It's utter carp and recently felt I've had more than enough and started to look for standard height springs to correct it back to where it was. Doubly so since the anti vehicle powers the be have wasted millions of road tax payers money and fitted those utter cnuts every 100 metres or so on nearly every road around here in Eastern London. It's destroyed my front shocks already.

[Jonny Hogan]

Ian, Blunty, Wallace, thanks for your responses

Top advice as ever and much appreciated.

I'm going to fire up to my folks place this weekend and get the car cleaned up again and will take some snaps; either way, it looks like i need to call my friendly mechanic again and get him back on the job ... its a serious pain in the rse having the back so low - and i also feel like a bit of a gypo driving it now !

Thanks again, watch this space

[Ian S]

i also feel like a bit of a gypo driving it now !Weighed down with all the scrap metal you collected!

[beng]

Would it be possible to get this deal set up again?

[Ian S]

Group buy, no.

They are in the RTOC shop.

Remember to deduct the members discount.

http://www.rtoc.org/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=110

[beng]

It says out of stock

[Ian S]

I thought there was one set left.

They've sold so slowly they've been forgotten about!

Like most dealers', we don't keep them ourselves, Koni ship them direct after we take the order and place the order.

[Wallace]

I thought there was one set left.

They've sold so slowly they've been forgotten about!

Like most dealers', we don't keep them ourselves, Koni ship them direct after we take the order and place the order.


:agree: