Car won't start..... [Archive]

LiamR

09-07-2012, 19:11

I have recently put my car back together and it turns over and sort of fires up for a few seconds. But it won't idle. :(

I have had a play with the mixture screw. No luck. A mess around and a clean out of the idle jet. Still nothing.

Checked that the fuel delivery is nice and strong. The king lead is sparking strongly. I just can't get it running.

Any ideas or anything else to try please gents??

Os8472

09-07-2012, 19:14

Check the hose between the manifold and brake servo for leaks

Brigsy

09-07-2012, 19:20

Are all the breather hoses fitted? Is the aei pipe connected? Check idle jet again it only needs the smallest bit of swarf to block it up

LiamR

09-07-2012, 20:29

Check the hose between the manifold and brake servo for leaks

Thanks. I will check this. Am showing my lack of knowledge here- but how would that affect it?

LiamR

09-07-2012, 20:31

Are all the breather hoses fitted? Is the aei pipe connected? Check idle jet again it only needs the smallest bit of swarf to block it up

I have taken the idle out about 5 times now. Blown it thru with compressed air and carb cleaner

The breather hoses are all fitted.

Am pretty certain that the aei pipe is connected. I'll double check.

Thanks for the ideas. :)

mightymanx

09-07-2012, 20:50

are the plug leads in the right order?

LiamR

09-07-2012, 20:54

Pretty sure the leads are correct. I did myself a little drawing of their position before I took them off.

I didn't remove the distributor and have put them back in the same position as before. But nothing. :(

Any other ideas?

I have changed the headgasket. Worth checking engine compressions?

kentraider

09-07-2012, 21:23

theres plenty more on here with more knowledge than me....
dont think.its compression as its started few times oil would of been in liner to aid with compresion...
just check all basics etc an have u checked all gaskets at carb base where ut mounts to inlet..

mightymanx

10-07-2012, 00:24

wouldnt say it would be compression a thing it could be tho is did you set the tappets correct? is it getting fuel up? sounds something simple

bigdur

10-07-2012, 06:43

Mine did this, the pump jet lever was sticking, a nice blast of lube and all was well.

LiamR

10-07-2012, 22:19

Not had the chance to do much fault finding yet but how do you know when the mixture screw is fully wound in?

As mine just seems to keep going...........

LiamR

12-07-2012, 18:28

I have had a chance to tinker with 5 today......

And I am totally confused!!!!!

I have tried all the above suggestions and still it won't start. I can only get it to run roughly for about 2-3 seconds.

I have cleaned out the idle jet. Tried to start it with the accelerator slightly pressed. It starts but seems to labour and then stalls.

I took the lobster elbow off and i am getting sparks, puffs of smoke and sometimes mini explosions coming out!

Any ideas as I so want to get it started...

Brigsy

12-07-2012, 19:31

Is the firing order correct?

kentraider

12-07-2012, 20:07

Is the firing order correct?

i agree....r u getting puffs of fuel coming bk through lobster...if so i reckon firing order wrong...
ive read that you think the orders correct...:p
if you make sure for certain that there correct then you know its not them 100%

LiamR

12-07-2012, 20:12

I was pretty sure I had it correct as I put it back how it was previously.

But it's def worth a look. So....how can I tell when the engine is at TDC then?

kentraider

12-07-2012, 20:19

I was pretty sure I had it correct as I put it back how it was previously.

But it's def worth a look. So....how can I tell when the engine is at TDC then?

take the plug out of piston no 1...put a socket on crank pulley get someone to manually turn it over with ur finger over sparkplug hole..you will feel compression build on ur finger as it reachs tdc...do it a few times an u will get a feel for it.....mite even b ur tdc sensor itself...:coffee:

R5MJH

12-07-2012, 20:21

Take out no1 plug fw end and get piston to the top put sometime in hole gently to feel when it's up then where the rotor arm points that no1 can be 180 degrees out too so if this dont work then do opposites clockwise 1342 is the order boss

kentraider

12-07-2012, 20:28

when u rebuilt ur engine did u take all the distributer drivegear out?

rs250nut

12-07-2012, 21:59

I was pretty sure I had it correct as I put it back how it was previously.

But it's def worth a look. So....how can I tell when the engine is at TDC then?

The most accurate way to find tdc is with a piston stop like this one below.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/rs250nut/photo-142.jpg

And a degree wheel and pointer like the one below.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii108/rs250nut/photo-144.jpg

This is bang on tdc. Set your ignition/ dizzy while your at it

LiamR

12-07-2012, 22:35

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated lads :agree:

I didnt take out the drivegear when I rebuilt the engine so thats why I am finding this a bit strange!!!

Are my symptoms that of the firing order being incorrect then??

philr5t

13-07-2012, 00:18

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 13:21

LiamR

13-07-2012, 13:53

Have you fitted new plugs mate if so did you check the gaps or what did you set them at I had this a few years back car would not idle thought the timing was out shut the gaps down on the plugs and problem solved might be worth you checking hope this may help

Yes mate I have fitted new plugs. I just put them straight in from the box. I'll
Have a go at reducing the gaps. What should they be set at?

LiamR

13-07-2012, 14:02

Yes, if you are getting back firing through the carb.

What sort of rebuild did you carry out?

I didn't do anything to the bottom end re bearings etc. I changed the starter motor,alternator, water pump, wiring loom sorted out, new headgasket and all top end gaskets, rebuilt carb, reground inlet and exhaust valves, reset tappets, new spark plugs,New clutch,extended volvo clutch arm, put in a new relay to stop the starter motor clicking. Off the top of my head that's it engine wise.

R5MJH

13-07-2012, 14:20

I didn't do anything to the bottom end re bearings etc. I changed the starter motor,alternator, water pump, wiring loom sorted out, new headgasket and all top end gaskets, rebuilt carb, reground inlet and exhaust valves, reset tappets, new spark plugs,New clutch,extended volvo clutch arm, put in a new relay to stop the starter motor clicking. Off the top of my head that's it engine wise.
plug gaps on autodata are .60mm to .70mm depending on plugs if you set cam dot to dot and do check tdc and do right order then it should start do you have a spare tdc flywheel pickup to try boss

philr5t

13-07-2012, 14:37

Yes mate I have fitted new plugs. I just put them straight in from the box. I'll
Have a go at reducing the gaps. What should they be set at?

Gap them at .6 mate and see if it changes anything if not least its something else to tick off the done that list ;)

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 15:59

I didn't do anything to the bottom end re bearings etc. I changed the starter motor,alternator, water pump, wiring loom sorted out, new headgasket and all top end gaskets, rebuilt carb, reground inlet and exhaust valves, reset tappets, new spark plugs,New clutch,extended volvo clutch arm, put in a new relay to stop the starter motor clicking. Off the top of my head that's it engine wise.

Ok well it'll be the firing order then, TDC No1 with a screw driver (compression stroke), take the dissy cap of, see where it's pointing to (don't worry too much if it's just before or after), that'll be No1, now you know where No1 is continue with the rest of the leads in order.

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 16:01

Another thing, not to doubt you, but you do know which cylinder is No1 right??

LiamR

13-07-2012, 18:56

Dave- I have always used the cylinder nearest the water pump as number 1.

That correct??

LiamR

13-07-2012, 18:57

Am also going to gap my plugs at 0.6mm as I def didn't do that when I put them in :)

LiamR

13-07-2012, 19:31

This is driving me nuts......

Just been out for a quick mess about with the 5.

I took out all the plugs, changed the gap to 0.6mm. Popped them back in. Tried to start it and the same happened. Flames out the top of the carb and lots of popping and banging.

So I changed the leads around on the dizzy in case it was 180 degrees out. Tried to start it and nothing.

Didnt have time to check TDC on cylinder 1 so Ill do that tomorrow but it seems weid that its still doing it on both HT lead set ups :cry:

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 19:54

Dave- I have always used the cylinder nearest the water pump as number 1.

That correct??

Nope that's what's wrong, no1 is the fly wheel end ie gearbox side.. Swap the leads and it should fire up

LiamR

13-07-2012, 19:57

I did change all the leads over- still nothing! :(

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 20:00

So looking at the engine no1 lead should be on the right hand side,middle connection is that correct?

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 20:03

Then working clockwise it should be 3,4 (opposite to 1) and finally 2 (this will be closest to the engine

LiamR

13-07-2012, 20:42

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 21:00

Yep I did exactly that. And pop pop and nothing...

Sooooooo...from the beginning..

I have taken off the dizzy cap and all the ht leads. I have taken the spark plug out of cylinder 1 (gearbox end of head) I have popped a screwdriver in the spark plug hole.

Now I am going to move the engine manually until the piston in cylinder 1 is at the top of its stroke, TDC. Wherever the rotor is pointing at- this is the where the HT lead is connected to. And then going clockwise 3-4-2.

Does this sound correct?

Perfect! Just make sure it's on it compression stroke, so to start with as u turn the engine over by hand put your finger over the hole, it should be trying to push your finger out. Stop there now put the screw driver in (just resting) it will get to a point where it goes up then starts to go back down.. All you need to do now is go back to the rocking point, wherever the rota arm is pointing that will be no1..

Another trick is to leave it as is, remove the 12mm bolt that secures the dissy and rotate it a little at a time, you should find a point where it will start to fire and eventually fire ;)

If its not near any then the dissy drive gear has moved.. If it is then it'll defo be something else..

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 21:06

Just re reading your first post to this problem.. You have piped the carb up correctly right? What I mean is are you sure you know where it all goes?

Again please don't take it as an insult :D

kentraider

13-07-2012, 22:17

if its not ur drivegear out off alignment my moneys on ur tdc sensor being brown bread...
m thinking the connection where the plugs meet is :jerkoff::jerkoff:

LiamR

13-07-2012, 22:22

if its not ur drivegear out off alignment my moneys on ur tdc sensor being brown bread...
m thinking the connection where the plugs meet is :jerkoff::jerkoff:

the connection where the plugs meet?? what do you mean mate??

I do have a old tdc sensor-could always try that?

LiamR

13-07-2012, 22:28

Perfect! Just make sure it's on it compression stroke, so to start with as u turn the engine over by hand put your finger over the hole, it should be trying to push your finger out. Stop there now put the screw driver in (just resting) it will get to a point where it goes up then starts to go back down.. All you need to do now is go back to the rocking point, wherever the rota arm is pointing that will be no1..

Another trick is to leave it as is, remove the 12mm bolt that secures the dissy and rotate it a little at a time, you should find a point where it will start to fire and eventually fire ;)

If its not near any then the dissy drive gear has moved.. If it is then it'll defo be something else..

Well I have been out there and found tdc on cylinder 1. The rotor arm was pointing towards the bottom connection (nearest radiator) so I connected this point to cylinder 1. Then followed round clockwise 3-4-2. This is how I had it set up previously before the rebuild.

I have also put on my old rotor and dizzy cap.

I tried to fire her up and I can get it to run as long as I continually pulse the accelerator manually at the carb, It still does the odd backfire out the carb though??

And it wont idle......?

LiamR

13-07-2012, 22:34

Just re reading your first post to this problem.. You have piped the carb up correctly right? What I mean is are you sure you know where it all goes?

Again please don't take it as an insult :D

Dont worry- no insult taken. Your help is being invaluable mate :agree:

As far as I am aware the carb is connected up correctly. The overflow pipe, the fuel feed, the left hand side connection that goes up to the lobster elbow.

I have never had this much trouble starting a 5 before :scared:

Would moving the dizzy round slightly help possibly???

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 22:52

Dont worry- no insult taken. Your help is being invaluable mate :agree:

As far as I am aware the carb is connected up correctly. The overflow pipe, the fuel feed, the left hand side connection that goes up to the lobster elbow.

I have never had this much trouble starting a 5 before :scared:

Would moving the dizzy round slightly help possibly???

Good good :D

Fuel feed is the larger one that sits on left hand side, on top, engine side.. Maybe get a pic up?

Yeah moving the dissy round will help if the drive gear is out.. The best way I found to do this is remove the dissy completely, turn it 180, put it back in, change the leads around ie 1 is now where 4 is etc etc, then put the clamp back on leaving the bolt loose (so its hard to move the dissy around, but still movable) then go from there, moving one way to the other.. It's easier if you've got someone cranking whilst you move it round MAKE SURE YOU USE A RAG OR SOMETHING as you may get a belt of it!!

kentraider

13-07-2012, 22:53

the connection where the plugs meet?? what do you mean mate??

I do have a old tdc sensor-could always try that?
i meant the connection plugs where the tdc wire connects at scuttle..
if u can fire it up an it runs under acceleration then its not the tdc sensor
i thougjt u couldnt get it running...
seems like the idle curcuit but youve checked the jet etc....
have u sprayed onto all gaskets at inlet etc to make sure u got no airleaks?

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 22:58

if its not ur drivegear out off alignment my moneys on ur tdc sensor being brown bread...
m thinking the connection where the plugs meet is :jerkoff::jerkoff:

Liam if you've got a spare I'd give this ago, sometimes easy to look too far into things.. Although of I remember correctly the fuel pump doesn't run when this are screwed??? Been efi too long to remember lol

LiamR

13-07-2012, 23:03

Good good :D

Fuel feed is the larger one that sits on left hand side, on top, engine side.. Maybe get a pic up?

Yeah moving the dissy round will help if the drive gear is out.. The best way I found to do this is remove the dissy completely, turn it 180, put it back in, change the leads around ie 1 is now where 4 is etc etc, then put the clamp back on leaving the bolt loose (so its hard to move the dissy around, but still movable) then go from there, moving one way to the other.. It's easier if you've got someone cranking whilst you move it round MAKE SURE YOU USE A RAG OR SOMETHING as you may get a belt of it!!

I am sure I have the fuel feed set up correctly. When I pump the accelerator you can see the fuel squirting in the top of the carb.

Never done that with the dizzy before. Sounds fun! lol.. at this rate ill be paying your petrol and giving you some beer tokens to come look at it as its driving me nuts!!

kentraider

13-07-2012, 23:04

Liam if you've got a spare I'd give this ago, sometimes easy to look too far into things.. Although of I remember correctly the fuel pump doesn't run when this are screwed??? Been efi too long to remember lol

i know youve earnt it dave...
u lucky sod...would love efi..:smokin:

LiamR

13-07-2012, 23:06

i meant the connection plugs where the tdc wire connects at scuttle..
if u can fire it up an it runs under acceleration then its not the tdc sensor
i thougjt u couldnt get it running...
seems like the idle curcuit but youve checked the jet etc....
have u sprayed onto all gaskets at inlet etc to make sure u got no airleaks?

I thought also that if the tdc wire was knackered it wouldnt run and I did manage abojut 20 seconds of running by pulsing the accelerator cable.

I havent sprayed anything onto the carb etc yet. what would u suggest using?

Dave Reed

13-07-2012, 23:08

I am sure I have the fuel feed set up correctly. When I pump the accelerator you can see the fuel squirting in the top of the carb.

Never done that with the dizzy before. Sounds fun! lol.. at this rate ill be paying your petrol and giving you some beer tokens to come look at it as its driving me nuts!!

If I wasn't working tomorrow buddy I would of already offered to come have a look with you! As your not that far from me.. I could only do after 7 if your still really stuck?

LiamR

13-07-2012, 23:08

Does the mixture screw on the carb affect the idle??

LiamR

13-07-2012, 23:11

If I wasn't working tomorrow buddy I would of already offered to come have a look with you! As your not that far from me.. I could only do after 7 if your still really stuck?

Cheers Dave :agree: thats a really nice offer. It has been off the road for years so I wont ruin your saturday eve by coming down.

You about Sunday or during the week maybe??

kentraider

13-07-2012, 23:13

I thought also that if the tdc wire was knackered it wouldnt run and I did manage abojut 20 seconds of running by pulsing the accelerator cable.

I havent sprayed anything onto the carb etc yet. what would u suggest using?

if the inlets not to hot im.sure wd40 will b ok.....it mite b actual connection.inside the connector of the tdc wire.....i changed the head an gasket on my mates 5.....
couldnt get her to even fire up was really puzzled an on verge of making a tit of myself lol...
got him to.get a new tdc sensor an bosh she went first time...:laugh:

LiamR

13-07-2012, 23:20

R5MJH

13-07-2012, 23:35

Also mate take off lobster and pour a small amount of fuel in and see if it runs longer ie 15/20ml the engine is that basic as long as assembled correctly it can only be timing, leads, tdc or carb related boss

LiamR

13-07-2012, 23:53

Dave Reed

14-07-2012, 10:45

Cheers Dave :agree: thats a really nice offer. It has been off the road for years so I wont ruin your saturday eve by coming down.

You about Sunday or during the week maybe??

Ill be off shift Tuesday, so if your around during the day and you haven't sorted it just give me a shout.. Then we can really cock it all up hahaha

Ill pm u my number.

Dave Reed

14-07-2012, 10:51

if the inlets not to hot im.sure wd40 will b ok.....it mite b actual connection.inside the connector of the tdc wire.....i changed the head an gasket on my mates 5.....
couldnt get her to even fire up was really puzzled an on verge of making a tit of myself lol...
got him to.get a new tdc sensor an bosh she went first time...:laugh:

WD40 won't really work, get some carb cleaner, although again will be very hard to tell if it's leaking as you can't get the car to run.

Mixture screw should be wound all the way in, then 1 1/2 turns out (if I remember correctly) make sure the o ring is in place and also that the nib hasn't snapped of.. Again though, this wouldn't stop the car from running.

LiamR

14-07-2012, 11:04

Cheers again Dave :)

I'll have a mess about again with it today.

Am going to put my spare tdc lead on and my old carb. U never know !!

LiamR

14-07-2012, 14:04

Confusion reigns supreme!!!!!

I put some fuel in the top of the carb-same old story. Puff and bangs...........

Took the carb off and found an old one that I havent run for a good 8-9 years.

The original carb looked fine-mixture screw ok with rubber on.

I put the old carb on and plumbed it up. Cleaned out the idle jet. Started up the 5 and it did the same thing as before. Popped, banged, wouldnt run correctly.

So I got a little annoyed at this and ran the engine at 4k rpm for about 2 mins. The engine warmed up to operating temp and I let go off the accelerator cable. The engine dropped to 2k rpm and idled at this. I dropped off the idle speed to 1000rpm and it continued idling ok??!!?? :):scared::)

I checked the engine temp and it was really high so I turned the engine off. Seems like the new thermostat didnt open. But thats the least of my worries.

So I have left it to cool down for the moment. Pretty happy it started and idled but not sure what I did to fix it?

Any ideas?? Maybe a blockage in the exhaust that has cleared with the high speed running????

R5MJH

14-07-2012, 14:48

When you build a complete new built engine you must rev to 4000 rpm for a good 5 mins you should of done this straight away mate thats y uv had probs

R5MJH

14-07-2012, 14:52

When you build a complete new built engine you must rev to 4000 rpm for a good 5 mins you should of done this straight away mate thats y uv had probs

Sorry forgot it will run hot as its a fresh build for now remove stat so it can be run up good

philr5t

14-07-2012, 17:04

When you build a complete new built engine you must rev to 4000 rpm for a good 5 mins you should of done this straight away mate thats y uv had probs

How come ?

Nick k

14-07-2012, 19:27

When you build a complete new built engine you must rev to 4000 rpm for a good 5 mins you should of done this straight away mate thats y uv had probs

?! :confused:

LiamR

16-07-2012, 16:57

I took the thermostat out (short term fix) and ran the engine up. It's awful to start and it still pops and bangs??? But once warmed up it idles at 1000rpm.

It's lumpy and surging though ?? Also the exhaust is popping and farting quite a bit. Overfuelling possibly??

I have just ordered an afr aem uego off scoff which should help me.

Does it just sound like a fuelling issue??

Alex

16-07-2012, 20:58

When you build a complete new built engine you must rev to 4000 rpm for a good 5 mins you should of done this straight away mate thats y uv had probs

Who on earth told you that? :confused:

Scoff

18-07-2012, 13:55

Hi Liam

Replying to your PM and aem order, thanks.

Lumpy and rough running is more likely from it being lean than rich so check for air leaks. If you've changed the breather pipe work make sure the restrictor is still in between the back of the manifold and the T piece near the rocker cover. Leaking inlet manifold gasket or carb base gasket could also be to blame. I once saw a washer left between the manifold and the gasket causing a big leak. Also worth checking there is no leaks through the brake servo. Maybe just clamp those pipes at the back of the manifold and see if idle and revving improves. What effect does applying choke have ? Does it smooth things out or make it worse ?

Did you check compression ? maybe the valves are not sealing as they should causing poor running at low engine speed.