View Full Version : Harsh suspension
I have GAZ adjustable suspension front and rear. whatever setting i have it on the ride is really harsh. I want to swap it out for something else.
What else can i go with? i was thinking standard shocks with 35mm lowering springs. would this give a more comfortable ride?
Tony Walker
04-05-2012, 22:29
perhaps try softer springs for the coilovers? cheaper than new suspension.
Tony Walker
04-05-2012, 22:30
my gaz rides fantastic, is it excessively low? softening the rear makes a massive difference.
my gaz rides fantastic, is it excessively low? softening the rear makes a massive difference.
not low.probably around a 30mm drop.
what would the ride be like with standard shocks but 35mm springs? will it bottom out when riding over pot holes?
Tony Walker
04-05-2012, 23:15
i had a camparse with 50mm and gt turbo shocks, they didnt bottom out but was very very low on 13s 35 should be fine.
i had a camparse with 50mm and gt turbo shocks, they didnt bottom out but was very very low on 13s 35 should be fine.
i have some apex 35mm springs and some standard shocks in the garage. i think i will fit those and see how it rides.
the rear gaz shocks are spot on though. weird.
Tony Walker
04-05-2012, 23:22
what makes you think there bottoming out. my 5 is quite low(not sure on drop) and i really whacked a speed bump( not seeing it) and it absorbed the shock and bounced me in the air but didnt bottom out.
Tony Walker
04-05-2012, 23:23
sorry re-read.... not bottoming just harsh.
gttjames
05-05-2012, 08:19
im on standard shocks and 50mm apex springs with torsion to match, ride is horrible. But my shocks could be past it...
My gaz are really nice, perfect for day to day and easy to stiffen up, must be the springs.
Tony Walker
05-05-2012, 08:40
My gaz are really nice, perfect for day to day and easy to stiffen up, must be the springs.
:agree:
Consider replacing all the front end bushes before condemning the actual shocks and springs. New wishbone and ARB bushes may improve things dramatically.
I run the Apex 50mm full kit with full polybushes and its stiff, but rides really good. I also originally had poly rubber top donuts (orange ones) with 35mm springs. I found these to make the car too stiff and the ride very hard and uncomfortable for anything other than occasional/track use. As mentioned check the rest of the suspension first. I dont think you will be happy with a 35mm drop if you have previously had coilovers.
I will check the bushes. Never thought of that. How much work to swap the suspension bushes?
I will check the bushes. Never thought of that. How much work to swap the suspension bushes?
Not a massive task! Sometimes better to cut the old wishbone bolts off and get new ones if they have been there years. Once off, just burn the old bushes out! ARB bushes, just unbolt and pop out of the metal retaining strap and then replace. Make sure you get the correct size. Im sure there are two different diameter roll bars fitted to the 5 depending on year.
I want to replace the font bushes to tighten everything up. My car is for road only and won't see any track days. Is it worth poly bushing the front or just get OE bushes? Do Renault still supply all the suspension bushes?
Thundercat
07-05-2012, 16:25
New oe rubber bushes will give best ride in my opinion, the top strut bush gets a lot pounding.
gttjames
07-05-2012, 18:06
i was thinknig the same adscan, i am going to replace all lower suspension bushes and was wondering weather to go oe or polybush - i am lowered but want best ride possible, oe or poly? :confused:
i was thinknig the same adscan, i am going to replace all lower suspension bushes and was wondering weather to go oe or polybush - i am lowered but want best ride possible, oe or poly? :confused:
i think i am going oe. mine is lowered 35mm but still think oe is the way to go. my question is are these bushes still available from renault as a set or do i have to buy them all seperate? does mike do a set?
Are your GAZ adjustable? Have you tried adjusting them to a softer setting?
If you're being bashed up in the air over potholes and your spine and guts are being hurt, bushes are not going to do anything except get damaged.
I think Andy M means if you've road noise harshness coming though.
As far as I know Gaz are like Avo, or the same, set to hard they scarcely move, so the ride is stupidly hard. And you have to drive slow as you've effectively no suspension.
Here's an example of working suspension: I had a Citroen GS with hydopneumatic air suspension. I could drive over road humps at 30 mph and the car stayed where it was, not punted into the air. The suspension absorbed the humps as it had sufficient travel and compliance to do so. The ride was like it was on air, which it was.
I have yellow Koni adjustables with matching 35mm springs, fully polybush kit including top mount doughnuts, a polybushed front stabiliser bush from gearbox to subframe and standard 55 profile 13" tyres.
The ride is absolutely perfect, comfortable and progressive, best mods my car has ever had.
My GAZ are adjustable. I have tried them in all settings too. At the softest point the front just bounces away and on the hardest I feel a large bang as something hits.
I swapped over to standard shocks and yellow apex springs. They are supposed to be 35mm drop but it looks way lower. The ride still feels hard but there are no bangs or hitting noises.
I rocked the wheels when on stands and there is no great movement. The bushes look old but not really gone or perished. I will swap them over with a new set. Just not sure whether to go poly bush or OE. I will go whatever is cheaper I think.
Anyone done their bushes recently? Will I need a press to get the old bushes out the wishbones? And also a press to get the new ones in? My car is a 1990 G reg. will the anti roll bar be 21mm?
A few years ago I replaced absolutly every single suspension component for new
Wishbones (standard bushes)
bottom balljoints
Trackrod ends
Steering rack
Top mounts (o.e bushes/bearings)
Bran new avo coilivers
And the ride went ridiculously hard even on the softest settings, I just got used to it and over 3 years on (after the usual avo rebuild):rolleyes: it's still the same. The standing joke about my car is you need dental insurance before you get in.
Getting the ride right is a right pain in the arse. Surely they weren't this hard when new. I am thinking about putting standard springs on and see how that goes.
A few years ago I replaced absolutly every single suspension component for new
Wishbones (standard bushes)
bottom balljoints
Trackrod ends
Steering rack
Top mounts (o.e bushes/bearings)
Bran new avo coilivers
And the ride went ridiculously hard even on the softest settings, I just got used to it and over 3 years on (after the usual avo rebuild):rolleyes: it's still the same. The standing joke about my car is you need dental insurance before you get in.
will the anti roll bar be 21mm?The are all the same diameter, what varies is the design of the inner mounting bushes and the subframe mountings they're in.
Yours should be the phase 2 unless it's had a subframe swap to a phase one.
Konis give a softer ride that standard OE shocks. The OE have a hard bump setting to try and stop the car rolling around, and soft rebound as they used soft springs.
My Konis had a soft bump setting and hard springs. Gives a better ride and also better cornering. Renault got it wrong.
At the softest point the front just bouncesThis is because at this setting they are too soft to control the springs rebound.
The are all the same diameter, what varies is the design of the inner mounting bushes and the subframe mountings they're in.
Yours should be the phase 2 unless it's had a subframe swap to a phase one.
I thought the last gtt's had the thicker bar off the clio as in the thread below? :)
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=27621
The are all the same diameter, what varies is the design of the inner mounting bushes and the subframe mountings they're in.
There are two sizes, the later anti roll bars are slightly thicker, i was sent the wrong set and had to re order.
phil
I've not heard that before, and I've heard it all :)
Those two bars in the photos are the same thickness. The rust is thicker than the difference he's measuring! Or are they two different places on the same bar? Whatever. The bushes only came in the one diameter for the 5GTT.
It so many years now I don't really recall. I did measure some bars and I seem to have some vague idea that the Campus had a 23mm bar, or maybe that was 22mm + rust. There might have been a 19mm bar too but I don't remember.
Do you know for a fact that the some Clio's have a thicker but same length bar?
There are two sizeswho actually told you that?
I've not heard that before, and I've heard it all :)
Those two bars in the photos are the same thickness. The rust is thicker than the difference he's measuring! Or are they two different places on the same bar? Whatever. The bushes only came in the one diameter for the 5GTT.
It so many years now I don't really recall. I did measure some bars and I seem to have some vague idea that the Campus had a 23mm bar, or maybe that was 22mm + rust. There might have been a 19mm bar too but I don't remember.
Do you know for a fact that the some Clio's have a thicker but length bar?
No, i have no idea. Im just reading different bits off different threads and wondered whether you could confirm it as fact or not, as you know your stuff. Then members in the future, that pick up on this thread via the search function get the correct information :agree:
I've not heard that before, and I've heard it all :)
Those two bars in the photos are the same thickness. The rust is thicker than the difference he's measuring! Or are they two different places on the same bar? Whatever. The bushes only came in the one diameter for the 5GTT.
It so many years now I don't really recall. I did measure some bars and I seem to have some vague idea that the Campus had a 23mm bar, or maybe that was 22mm + rust. There might have been a 19mm bar too but I don't remember.
Do you know for a fact that the some Clio's have a thicker but length bar?
I do, when i built my car my anti roll bar was shot blasted and coated, i was sent what i thought was a gt full poly bush kit, the inner bushes, would actually spin round the bar when closed, no way enough tightening would have gripped them.
I then spent a while on here searching and it was mention the bars could be different sizes.
After a few phone calls backwards and forwards, i measured and email photos of my standard bush, after going through their catalogs it would appear my bar was thicker, the same as the phase 1 clios.
Dj might comment where he go the two sizes from as per other thread.
Probably best to check, before you order :)
Might be some help :)
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=9195&highlight=anti+roll+bar+bush
wondered whether you could confirm it as fact or notBeen done in the past, 10 years ago. Probably threads in the old site. This is why I like to make articles so stuff is written down and kept in one accessible place and not lost in past threads.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=9195&highlight=anti+roll+bar+bushThanks for the link. :) I didn't read every post but it appeared to be a whole thread full of Drivel showing that people appear to be incapable of comprehending, learning, remembering even the most simple simple stuff. Even when it's explained to them.
Surely people can see that the inner ARB bush they took off their car is a different size to the one they've been sold? Can't they?
Early design subframe, later design subframe,
early design bush, later design bush,
Small early, large later, might be the right way around.
No-one in that thread mentioned a 23mm bar. I just had another vague recall from the past that I looked in a Haynes manual and it may have had two bar sizes mentioned, Campus and 5GTT. I'm not going to look it up again now.
These cars are up to 26 years old now and over that time people will have fitted various odd changes. Maybe someone did fit thinner bar to your 5?? Maybe they were the wrong bushes? Maybe the shot blast took off a lot of metal? Were you able to measure the bar thickness? Did the bushes you took off fit well? Were they a different size to the bushes you were sent?
The fact is that for many years the Renault and after market bushes for the 5GTT came in one inner diameter only, with early and late inner variants. There have been many threads on this, but probably on the old site.
what i thought was a gt full poly bush kit, the inner bushes, would actually spin round the bar when closed
it would appear my bar was thicker, the same as the phase 1 clios.No. Thinner. Your bar was thinner, so the bush was loose.
Your bar was thinner than the standard GTT bar.
Or you were sent non 5GTT bushes.
Matt@CodeRedMotorsports
08-05-2012, 11:20
Dialogys says c405/gtt=21mm bar, a c40f with a c1j = 22mm bar.
Thanks for that Matt :)
What's the C40F?
I think the C405 is the 5GTT.
Matt@CodeRedMotorsports
08-05-2012, 11:25
Thanks for that Matt :)
What's the C40F?
I think the C405 is the 5GTT.
C denotes 3 door, so a basic r5 with a sub 1.4 8 valve, poverty spec.
C405 is gtt yep.
So that may have been a 22mm 'poverty' spec bar on djinuk's 5GTT then? That may have been used on some Clios?
But did they make a poly bush set for that, or Phil, were they OE rubber bushes you were sent?
Matt@CodeRedMotorsports
08-05-2012, 11:35
It's a possibility mate, yes.
Wow, deep breath ian, sorry my bad, the first inner bush kit i was sent were to small, this was a full phase 2 kit, but the inner a/r bush would not close round the bar even when in the bracket trying to tighten. It was 3 year ago i did them. I then i ordered the larger bushes which i was told were the same as the clios, they would fit around and close on the larger bar, like in the pictures as per other thread.
My used bushes that came off were in good nick, fitted the bar great to, i just needed a match, which was not what i was sent in the kit.
Might help
mine in 1st kit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390380578944?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
19mm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280849462644?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
21mm type 1
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280849462554?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
21mm type 2 larger hump
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280849462566?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
23mm mine
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280849462517?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I think it tells us something that they only do one outer ARB bush, ie, one inner diameter (which should be 21mm): http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/5+GT+Turbo-126/1.html
They do an early and a late 21mm inner.
As for the 19mm and 23mm inner ones??
Looks like the Williams Clio used the 23mm outer and inner: http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Clio+including+16v+%26+Williams-326/1.html
The 19 16V is listed at 23mm outer and inner: http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/19+%28inc+16V%29-226/1.html
Clio 2 (172 and 182) is listed at 25mm: http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Clio+II+%28inc+172+%26+182%29-426/1.html
I think the Clio bar might be a couple of inches longer than the 5GTT bar, or maybe not. The 19 16V might be in between. But I don't know this. Could just as likely be the same length. I've forgotten, people over the years have done the 16V conversion to the 5GTT but not often and no one seems to have written it down. I think I did ask people to send me the details for an article but they more or less never do.
It does tell us something, don't always believe whats in black and white especially in the haynes manual, better to research and check before you buy, as for the 4 bushes in 3 different sizes listed, who know what years they were assigned to, its a bit of pot luck imo.
I very much doubt from the renault 5s launch to its demise, they probably did not sick with one standard size.
Who ever buys them have a good measure up :)
I've had my GTT since 1992. I added new poly bushes in about 2000. Been using these forums since the late 1990's. There was only ever one diameter available for the 5GTT that I ever heard of and no-one ever got it confused as there was nothing to ever get confused. Apart from the early and late inner bush outer size. I knew plenty of people back then with 5's of varying years and all fitted the same bushes. The manufacturers didn't offer more than one diameter and I never heard anyone say they absolutely would not fit because the I.D. was 2mm to small or 2mm too big.
As far as research, that's why I went straight to Powerflex to see that they say about there products rather than some eBay vendor.
Could argue all day, powerflex must be wrong then to :coffee:
23mm mine
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280849462517?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649Did you get 23mm outer ARB bushes?
Did you get 23mm outer ARB bushes?
No, like you have mentioned and by looking at the powerflex web page it looks like the outers are all one standard size.
I just had problems with the inners.
Jimmy_GTT
10-05-2012, 07:08
Back to the topic...
My Whitey is full std. and it is very comfortable. 195/55/13, std. height, std. suspension
But my Tungy is 3cm lowered with 195/45/15 and it feels harsh too. I do not know if it is because of the tyre height or the lowering. Or shall I try to change those rubber bushes?
Going to order some new bushes soon but until then imam going to take the 35mm springs off and try some standard hight springs I have got. See if that makes any difference.
We should define the meaning of harsh.
The polyurethane bushes are said to be harsh meaning they convey more road noise and vibration into the car.
The OP I think is not talking about that but about the whole car being bumped up and dropping due to excessively stiff shock absorber settings. Instead of the suspension absorbing those bumps and hollows.
We should define the meaning of harsh.
The polyurethane bushes are said to be harsh meaning they convey more road noise and vibration into the car.
The OP I think is not talking about that but about the whole car being bumped up and dropping due to excessively stiff shock absorber settings. Instead of the suspension absorbing those bumps and hollows.
Yes. That is what I mean. Generally I find the ride quality very poor. I have tried various set ups so far and not found one I am happy with.
I will get oe bushes and oe shocks and springs. Surely the rude quality will improve then. Just to confirm, I am not after track handling just something for comfortable road driving.
You're better off with Koni yellows than OE.
OE had, at least, a very hard bump setting and they used soft springs.
I used Konis and hard springs and had a softer but better controlled ride. As have load of other members here which is why Koni yellows keep being recommended over everything else. Unless people specifically want or need height adjustables.
If cost is not a problem then you could perhaps look at the H & R mono tube coil overs which are height adjustable and seem to be rated as better shocks than KW (which are twin tubes)
Having said that KW does have this trick up their sleeve: http://www.kw-suspension.co.uk/salt-spray-test.php
Going by what Ian has said right from the start of this thread.
Use these :- http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=160799307209
Ive got a barely used set of Apex 35mm springs for sale if you need them.
That will sort the front and you were happy with the back, so problem solved.
:D
Going by what Ian has said right from the start of this thread.
Use these :- http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=160799307209
Ive got a barely used set of Apex 35mm springs for sale if you need them.
That will sort the front and you were happy with the back, so problem solved.
:D
i got some apex 35mm springs already thanks..
i am going to go with those koni shocks. they look like the best option for smooth/soft ride quality.
thanks for all the advice.
i got some apex 35mm springs already thanks..
i am going to go with those koni shocks. they look like the best option for smooth/soft ride quality.
thanks for all the advice.
:agree::agree::agree:
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=160799307209Konis may have (had?) a good warranty but they don't last forever. I bought better looking ones than those and one was worn and useless. I sent them back to Koni in Sunbury, sound west of London, for a recon and they told me they were not worth doing and too many parts were needed; mainly the shiny rod had excessive wear and is very a expensive part.
They shock should move smoothly and evenly all the way in and out. One didn't. It offered too little resistance and squelched. And the adjustment seemed jammed.
I was replacing low mileage Spax which the left front was bouncing and wheel spinning when moving off. It had lost it's rebound and bump resistance. The same has happened with the left front Apex that's on my Fiat now. Seems OK when cold and the front corner is pushed down and released, but when moving, the left front has no control and does the same thing of bouncing when moving off in the wet especially when traction is easy to break. It's leaking too. It's perhaps done 25,000 miles. Not great compared to the originals at perhaps 75 miles and working fine; well not leaking and the same as they were when I got the car at four years old and 54,000 miles.
As it's CGB, a well known business, selling these we can expect he knows how to check shocks and will refund if they are found faulty once fitted?
It's a cheap way to try them out though.
As it's CGB, a well known business, selling these we can expect he knows how to check shocks and will refund if they are found faulty once fitted?
Having had dealings with Bob in the past on numerous occasions, i know you will not be dissapointed with his customer service if you happen to have a problem.
Jimmy_GTT
31-05-2012, 13:38
I've fitted the std 13" tyres back on my Tungy. And now the car is much more comfortable.
The 15" Willis with 195/45 weighted 15kg but the std. phase II alloys with 195/55 only 11.9kg.
I do not know if it is only because of the side wall height of the tyre or the weight, but I really prefer the feeling with the 13" rims.
Adam buddy did you end up sourcing KONI’s if so what are they like and where did you get them from?
Asking as thinking of getting a set…but not sure who to buy them from :confused:
Cheers :agree:
gttjames
01-06-2012, 22:36
ibought those shocks from bob. Il see what there like once my 5 is back up and running. On the look out for some rear koni's now to match
Woznaldo
02-06-2012, 01:57
How long have your Gaz Struts been fitted? Were they new when you fitted them?
SCHWARTZ
02-06-2012, 10:23
Adam buddy did you end up sourcing KONI’s if so what are they like and where did you get them from?
Asking as thinking of getting a set…but not sure who to buy them from :confused:
Cheers :agree:
I recently got a set of koni's, very good set of shocks great on the road. Got mine from larkspeed, but they need to be made up took about 4weeks they said 8 so I was pleased with that.
I recently got a set of koni's, very good set of shocks great on the road. Got mine from larkspeed, but they need to be made up took about 4weeks they said 8 so I was pleased with that.
SCHWARTZ I have had a look at the Larkspeed website & there are a few different sets available i.e. front & rear separate / STR.T or did you buy the Koni Sport Adjustable Suspension Kits (http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?c=KONIEQUIPADSUSPENKITS&s=category) [4Shocks + 40mm lowering springs]....Also how does the car sit with them on?
Thanks for you reply
SCHWARTZ
02-06-2012, 14:57
i went for the koni sport range (yellow) and have -35 springs. the car is a good height as i can just get over the small square bumps without catching the sidey and no probs on normal bumps. they are very forgiving unlike my avo's and still handles really well, perfect shocks for a more road based car imo.
i went for the koni sport range (yellow) and have -35 springs. the car is a good height as i can just get over the small square bumps without catching the sidey and no probs on normal bumps. they are very forgiving unlike my avo's and still handles really well, perfect shocks for a more road based car imo.
Nice one :agree: that is exactly what I will be ordering next month
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.