water leaks and toffee ice cream

[Red October]

Ive been monitoring a situation with my water levels and discouloration of inside my expansion tank.

1st my water is toffee coloured with a little same colour ice cream on top.

2nd my water is leaking underneath the carb area (see attached pics)

The leak comes from the alloy piece under the carb which has two round ends (either end) when i say round i mean they look about 25mm and are recessed. it is leaking from one of of the recesses, only when you remove the expansion cap or blow into it with alot of pressure.

The toffee spray is all around the affected area.

A-what is the alloy piece?:confused:

B-is the toffee a possible cracked head?:scared:

The car is running very very well other than this issue apart from the obvious occasional water top up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated:)
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG_0405.jpg

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG_0406.jpg


http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/RedOctober5/IMG_0407.jpg

[Jonny5]

I had this same problem with the toffee coloured water and mine was a cracked head.
Usually the case when the car runs ok apart from the crap in the exp bottle.
The round items are core plugs act like a fuse in the coolant system but can rust away with age and in-correct coolant mix.

[tubbyG]

A - that is the inlet manifold. the leak is coming from the core plug at one end..


new core plugs can be bought to replace worn items. or you could stop the coolant from going through the inlet and carb by bypassing it

[Markey Mark (BD)]

Looks like your ilet manifold is leaking, the core plugs have corroided and are now leaking

As for the water i would be emptying the entire system asap and cleaning as much as you can out of the engine, heater matrix and water pipes, Fill it with fresh fluid and then see if it clears or not

[andybond]

Shout me if you get stuck Ash ..

[Red October]

Cheers lads, first im going to get some new plugs (or if any members have any to sell).

Secondly im going to start the flush tomorrow, obviously i will have to break down the system into sections..................what pipes would you recommend first.

I take it the flush will prove the cracked head theory or the "crap in your system" theory. Whether it stays clean or not.

As far as a cracked head goes, is it better to just get rid and get a new/recon? Rather than attempting fixing it even if i can find it?

[Red October]

Shout me if you get stuck Ash ..
Cheers Andy, have been doing some checks on the problems we noticed up yours last week. It appears the problems maybe more serious as first thought.:(

Think im going to get it sorted tomorrow night when ive got time so ill probably be on the phone to ya!:)

[Jonny5]

Cheers lads, first im going to get some new plugs (or if any members have any to sell).

Secondly im going to start the flush tomorrow, obviously i will have to break down the system into sections..................what pipes would you recommend first.

I take it the flush will prove the cracked head theory or the "crap in your system" theory. Whether it stays clean or not.

As far as a cracked head goes, is it better to just get rid and get a new/recon? Rather than attempting fixing it even if i can find it?

The rocker rail oil way that cracks in the head can be enlarged slightly and a metal tube epoxied in. Depends on how bad the crack is if you have one.
Flush it first like mark says tho before stripping it down. Could just be a dirty cooling system as mentioned.

[Red October]

Cheers everyone.

[Brigsy]

Just bypass the water feeds on the inlet manifold, its not needed anyway :)

Definitely flush the system, the coolant looks bad. Probably a cracked head.

[Tony Walker]

Just bypass the water feeds on the inlet manifold, its not needed anyway :)

Definitely flush the system, the coolant looks bad. Probably a cracked head.


:agree: That looks more like bubbles and really badly corroded system. It doesnt really look like oil, oil usually turns in to thick creamy crap. but.... it could be.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2bTRN5HhigifQbh9jYHcUzhOaAX4Ef rJuhUS50cOVJiuUP8v4ft_fNPDv

[Brigsy]

That is true tony, it does look like heavily corroded water from lack of coolant

[andybond]

Brigsy , I saw the car last week - it looks lots like corrossion. No signs of the crap I had when I had the cracked head.

Useage of water will be a pinprick leak at carb base where water lines are.

[Red October]

UPDATE!!!!!

ive completley flushed the system, i emptied the expansion and removed it.
ran water through every pipe route using blanks for the other pipes until the water ran completley clear (took about 30mins) cleaned the expansion thoroughly too.

Re-filled and bled the system again and ran the car until normally warm for about 20mins on water only,

Opened up the expansion after a couple of mins after switch off..................... well the water is back to a toffee colour with a 0.5mm film of foam on the top:(
Granted the water before was a oxide orange and now im at a dull brown.

This is sounding like a crack but im going to repeat the process tomorrow in the vain hope that it needs a reflush a couple of times, but considering the water ran crystal clear round every route (even out of the pinhole leak core plug!) i think im peeing in the wind:(

Good news justin the R5 mechanic is doing some bits for me next week so perhaps he'll shed more light on the subject then.

[andybond]

I still think its corrosion.

Run the engine upto temp. Carefully take off the expansion tank lid. Drop in a dishwasher tablet. Give it death for five minutes.

Let the engine cool a little, and drain the system.

Flush the system out with hosepipe ( then flush it some more )

Report back here..

[Jonny5]

UPDATE!!!!!

ive completley flushed the system, i emptied the expansion and removed it.
ran water through every pipe route using blanks for the other pipes until the water ran completley clear (took about 30mins) cleaned the expansion thoroughly too.

Re-filled and bled the system again and ran the car until normally warm for about 20mins on water only,

Opened up the expansion after a couple of mins after switch off..................... well the water is back to a toffee colour with a 0.5mm film of foam on the top:(
Granted the water before was a oxide orange and now im at a dull brown.

This is sounding like a crack but im going to repeat the process tomorrow in the vain hope that it needs a reflush a couple of times, but considering the water ran crystal clear round every route (even out of the pinhole leak core plug!) i think im peeing in the wind:(

Good news justin the R5 mechanic is doing some bits for me next week so perhaps he'll shed more light on the subject then.

Did you drain the block?

[Red October]

Did you drain the block?

I dont think i did, like i said i flushed every pipe in turn from the expansion whilst bunging the other ones bar one.

Is the block a different system?

[Tony Walker]

Sounds like its going to need some sort of rad flush through it, it will take a looooooooooooong time to get it clear. chances are you wont be getting coolant circulating properly through parts as it takes the easiest route.

[Red October]

I still think its corrosion.

Run the engine upto temp. Carefully take off the expansion tank lid. Drop in a dishwasher tablet. Give it death for five minutes.

Let the engine cool a little, and drain the system.

Flush the system out with hosepipe ( then flush it some more )

Report back here..

I will try that tomorrow andy, Renault 5s live longer with calgon:)

[Jonny5]

I dont think i did, like i said i flushed every pipe in turn from the expansion whilst bunging the other ones bar one.

Is the block a different system?

The block has a drain plug on the timing cover side. Its hard to explain where (hopefully someone will help me out) but the block holds alot of coolant with the engine being a wet liner design. I found even after flushing all my hoses with a high power hose there was still an oily crap left until i drained the block.

[Tony Walker]

10mm plug i think.

[michael tierney]

i would'nt assume its a cracked head....many people here got a cracked head skimmed ect and it was the same.a cracked liner(tiny fracture)will give u that crap in the water.cracked head in these engines usually give a really heavy emulsion in the oil...rocker box!could just be the h/gasket!

[Red October]

Well im not counting on it but hopefully i think we've solved the problem.

Got in from work early and flushed the car for ages and i mean ages. Re-filled and bled followed by a brutal drive to the shops to pick up some dishwasher tablets. When i got home the water had turned brown again, using the andybond method popped in 2x dw tablets followed by 20 minutes of booting it, emptied and re-filled.

Went out for a drive immediatley after and i could see the bottom of the expansion for the first time on my return! Fingers crossed eh :)

Turns out not only are my core plugs leaking but so is the coolant pipe from my matrix to the under pot (2 waypot under expansion tank):)

One problem solved 8 to go! Cheers for the advice guys.

[Tony Walker]

:agree: