poxy fueling

[SCHWARTZ]

Having problems getting the fueling right still:rolleyes:
I have gone back to standard rail and reg and now using orange t5 injectors as the saab reds were over fueling. Im getting 10's at wot and part throttle is a little lean:scratch:
Im all ready at 1.7 bar boost but its still rich, If i open the bypass hole up any more it will be too lean at part throttle and idle.
Is there any other way to lean out the fueling at wot? Could the flow rate of the pump be too much (044)?

[philg]

I dont know how you do it mate :cry:

[SCHWARTZ]

Yeah is getting annoying.:mad: thing is it fookin flies its just in the 10's at wot but dosnt miss fire at all Think I need to check the afr gauge against another. I'm seriously considering going standalone.

[Scoff]

You will find the location of the bypass hole is important :)

For instance, if you have a 90deg bend in the pipe between AFM and turbo then putting the hole on the corner such that the hole looks directly at the turbo inlet then it might help lean AFR out under load. At speed, air likes to travel as directly as possible.

Otherwise you want to look at using a re-scaling device like the jaycar:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5385&CATID=76&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11

It sits inline with the AFM 0-5v signal and gives you control over fueling at all load points. You still need the bypass else the AFM just maxes out. For a neater installation you could run the jaycar with a bigger AFM, one rated at 250hp say. :)

[ioshi_s_golf]

Yeah is getting annoying.:mad: thing is it fookin flies its just in the 10's at wot but dosnt miss fire at all Think I need to check the afr gauge against another. I'm seriously considering going standalone.


Sorry to hear this mate :( , this is the reason why i'm using standalone now, and i'm very happy with it. No my engine and gear box is out and getting ready to respray the engine bay soon. And after that to fit the new ceramic clutch.

What clutch do you use ?

[SCHWARTZ]

You will find the location of the bypass hole is important :)

For instance, if you have a 90deg bend in the pipe between AFM and turbo then putting the hole on the corner such that the hole looks directly at the turbo inlet then it might help lean AFR out under load. At speed, air likes to travel as directly as possible.

Otherwise you want to look at using a re-scaling device like the jaycar:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5385&CATID=76&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=965#11

It sits inline with the AFM 0-5v signal and gives you control over fueling at all load points. You still need the bypass else the AFM just maxes out. For a neater installation you could run the jaycar with a bigger AFM, one rated at 250hp say. :)


I have moved the bypass hole round a little I did have it nearer the turbo but I think it was too near as it stalled when revved hard. I have a 90 bend so il pot a hole in that inline with the turbo inlet and see how that goes.
That jaycar thing looks good tho, so would the maf plug from the loom plug into the jaycar thing then that plug into the maf?
Would any maf do or would it need to be off a volvo as long as its off a bigger more powerful engine as standard? Could a bigger bhp maf be used on its own? Or again will it still have trouble with fueling?

[SCHWARTZ]

Sorry to hear this mate :( , this is the reason why i'm using standalone now, and i'm very happy with it. No my engine and gear box is out and getting ready to respray the engine bay soon. And after that to fit the new ceramic clutch.

What clutch do you use ?

Sounds good matey you'll love it when its going. Marky mark sorted my clutch all I can remember is that it wad a lot cheaper than a paddle clutch. It seems to be holding up fine at this boost level all be it running a bit rich, while your box is out I would defo fit the longer Volvo clutch fork as mine was very snappy with its stiff pressure plate.

[Brigsy]

Get some proper management on there mate, its gagging for it.

[SCHWARTZ]

I have been saving the pennies and convincing my self that I defo need launch control:D then I will go up to scoffs and have the drive in service he offered me, but until then I want it running as good as poss without spending any real money on it as it will most prob be binned anyway.:rolleyes:

[ioshi_s_golf]

while your box is out I would defo fit the longer Volvo clutch fork as mine was very snappy with its stiff pressure plate.

Thanks mate :) will try to find the clutch fork. Is it matter from what volvo gearbox should i take the clutch fork ? What size engine as well ?

[SCHWARTZ]

Toil get it off of the 440,60or80 the gearbox will look like the jb3. Or the part numbers are on here somewhere cost 20quid or something.

[SCHWARTZ]

scoff, would a maf off of a volvo 940 work? Is used on 2.3turbo's with 190bhp so guessing it should be up to the job, could i just use this and do away with the bypass hole or does it not work like that?:scratch:

[Scoff]

It doesn't quite work like that mate.

Think about how the maf works. It's job is to tell the ECU exactly how much air is entering the engine. It does that by varying it's output voltage. 0v = no flow, 5v = maximum flow. The standard maf maxes out at something like 160hp. I havn't ever measured but it won't be a million miles away from that. So with that in mind, fitting a bigger air flow meter without changing anything else means that for the same air flow as before the ECU will think there is less air flow, because it is used to a smaller maf.

Fitting a bigger maf will lean things out for reasons above. Fitting bigger injectors might level the things up again but you'd be lucky to find a maf and injectors that work together without still needing to fudge the system somehow.

A bigger maf in conjunction with a jaycar box should give you some decent control. The jaycar is just a kit of parts, so not as simple as just plugging in. Wouldn't that be nice ! You'll need to build the kit and intercept the signal wire between maf and ECU.

Blocky built one of those up years ago and had some success with it I think.

[Brigsy]

I have been saving the pennies and convincing my self that I defo need launch control:D then I will go up to scoffs and have the drive in service he offered me, but until then I want it running as good as poss without spending any real money on it as it will most prob be binned anyway.:rolleyes:

Think of the badass 2 step rev limiter for the strip, and total control over fuelling/ign win win:agree:

[TrixNFlix]

Gary, scoff has pointed me down this road before and I looked into it. I think the only way to go is standalone. When I've got my new house with a lovely garage, and I can start working on my b18ft conversion, this is the route I will be going. :agree: get saving them pennies Gary! :D

[SCHWARTZ]

yep that's it in convinced standalone is whats needed.:D fed up of fiddling and only ever getting sort of somewhere near:sad2:
Just need to make it work as well as i can in the meantime for as little as possible:wasntme:

[SCHWARTZ]

In that case anyone know what boost the standard engine and 200sx t28 internals can take? Im thinking 2bar:D

[TrixNFlix]

In that case anyone know what boost the standard engine and 200sx t28 internals can take? Im thinking 2bar:D

Not sure Gary, scoff or haz have the most knowledge of these engines. I remember daver5 got about 228bhp from about 18psi, which is pretty damn good, not sure if that was his cut off for det?

[SCHWARTZ]

Yeah heard that was on dta management with the golf pump. I would be happy with that but 250bhp would be nicer:D

[Markey Mark (BD)]

yep that's it in convinced standalone is whats needed.:D fed up of fiddling and only ever getting sort of somewhere near:sad2:
Just need to make it work as well as i can in the meantime for as little as possible:wasntme:

:agree: Agree with you mate, to get best from them i think the standard ecu's and afm need binning.
Been looking at pricing up and basic Megasquirt kit for the van, see how that goes.

[Haz]

standalone is the way to go really. anything over 20psi will want det cans on too. some engines in the past have started pinking at 21 and others up 25 so dont think you'll scrape 250 without a proper turbo cam and a standalone, but then i think 280bhp could be possible. but until then ;
adjusting the afm signal alters fuel mainly at idle but also across the full range, up to 5v about 1bar. adjust this last along with throttle position switch so there is no 'click' which sets the ecu onto base map to set the idle.
the bypass hole is to trick the afm into seeing less air, so puts less fuel in. if its lean part throttle then make the hole smaller.
above 1bar the afm is maxed out so bigger injectors will read rich but as a cheap tester you could try a one way valve t'd into the manifold to fuel pressure reg vac pipe (like a gtt manifold to servo one, with a bleed valve afterwards so its adjustable). this will read correct under vacuum but shouldn't get as high above 1bar.
as always, use det cans and afr gauge to be on the safe side

[SCHWARTZ]

I have set the TPS past the click and moved the hole about a bit which has made a little bit of a difference. I'm getting 11-11.6 at wot now which is better, but if I open the hole anymore it will be too lean part throttle. Could the flowrate of the pump be too much making it richer? I did think about a bleed valve in the reg vac pipe then a 1way valve on the 3rd port so bleeding off boost air. Would that work?

[Haz]

Afr's at wot above 1bar should in theory be the same with or without the bypas as the afm is maxed out and it's a 2bap map sensor in the ecu so again maxed out hence the need to keep an eye on things. The bypass effects idle and part throttle which is why I suggested making it SMALLER ;) this should richer it up at thàt point. The afm may need to be turned down to fine tune. At wot it should stay the same, maybe not when you first plant it due to acc effect but once boost levels out. That's where the fpr bleed should come in handy, never tried but as fuel pressure increases with boost it should work. Actually, a ball bearing n spring bleed valve would save mucking about with one way valve and drop fuel pressure by .5 bar.
Don't think the pump is the issue, but I only used the mk1 golf/Audi tt (Bosch 191) pump as was enough for 25psi where my engine was pinking.

[SCHWARTZ]

ok i was under the impression that the bypass hole would alter fueling at wot also, Its not lean at part throttle just a little rich at wot so didnt want to open out the hole anymore cos that would make part throttle lean but now i see that opening the hole wouldnt lean out wot anyway. I may give the one way valve and bleed valve thing a go tho or ball bearing and spring bleed valve.