View Full Version : Keeping My PH2 On The Road!
After fitting a supposedly nearly new good saab 9000 turbo a few months ago, i was getting smoke..... again!
So bought a rebuilt t25 through bluntyr5gtt on here and have spent a few hours this afternoon starting to fit it:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4476/imag0133c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/imag0133c.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/imag0133c.jpg/Old turbo seals most definately gone :laugh:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/imag0127u.jpg/http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4290/imag0127u.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/imag0127u.jpg/)
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9751/imag0126j.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/imag0126j.jpg/)
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3747/imag0125hw.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/imag0125hw.jpg/)
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2034/imag0128qd.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/imag0128qd.jpg/)
Swapped all the necessary bits over
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/imag0129zu.jpg/http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1596/imag0129zu.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/imag0129zu.jpg/)
Had a bit of an issue with the actuator bracket where it was bolted to the compressor housing was in the way of the oil feed fitting to the turbo, have cut a bit away but might have to relieve it a bit more tomorrow.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/imag0130nj.jpg/http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4052/imag0130nj.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/imag0130nj.jpg/)
Gave it an oil change a couple of days ago with some cheap oil, did a couple of miles gently and then changed it again for some decent oil and a genuine filter while doing the turbo.
Just need to refit the turbo and weld my lambda bung onto my new 2.5" downpipe tomorrow, get some fuel and we should be up and running again! :D:D
Then its mot time start of next month! :eek:
What turbo exhaust housing did you use for the Saab? Did you keep the Saab one and modify it?
Good luck with the MOT....we have all been there!:agree:
What turbo exhaust housing did you use for the Saab? Did you keep the Saab one and modify it?
Yea kept the 3 bolt saab exhaust housing and used the downpipe from a saab 900 as it has a 90 degree bend directly after the turbo, welded this to a 5 downpipe, not using the cast elbow made a hell of a difference!
Yea kept the 3 bolt saab exhaust housing and used the downpipe from a saab 900 as it has a 90 degree bend directly after the turbo, welded this to a 5 downpipe, not using the cast elbow made a hell of a difference!
Interesting, I've got a couple of Saab turbo's kicking around as spares you see. If I come across a downpipe in a scrappy I might give it a crack.
Cheers
:)
The saab downpipe has a lambda bung in the bend as well, bonus! if i need another turbo anytime ill probably go one, i have the downpipe made up spare now.
Finished fitting the new turbo, removed the king lead and left the oil drain off and turned it over until oil came out of the turbo oil drain.
All good put last few bits on, ran it up, let it get warm checked for leaks, cooled a bit then took it put for a drive........
Smoke. :cry:
Haven't taken anything apart, just put it on the drive as I'm so pissed off! Scrap yard is looming at this rate! Brand new turbo as well!
And just to add to it the other half's Clio won't start and I can't find the fault!
Might it be oil in your exhaust system?
Might it be oil in your exhaust system?
Wish it was mate! Smoke cleared while it was idleing, got some fuel bout a mile drive, seemed ok, stopped off at home and had a small amount of smoke this i thought might be oil in exhaust.
Took it out down the main road gave it some boot, full 13psi, as soon as i had full boost backed off, and plumes of smoke behind! Tried again same thing.
Got back home and let it idle and lots of oil smoke from exhaust.
Ill pull the elbow off when i get chance, but i bet its covered in oil. :crap:
Can too much oil pressure be an issue? Also what can cause it? I only have the standard oil pressure guage but recently it seems to be higher than usual, 5.5 bar at 3k warm:confused:
Is the oil return to the sump blocked or kinked??
Is the oil return to the sump blocked or kinked??
Not that i know of, will have a look next weekend when i get some time when its light!
I have checked the breather system ans thats clear, i have had a problem with it blowing the dipstick out and firing oil all over the engine bay...
Just been back out, the return isn't kinked, but cant check if its bloked until i remove a few bits to get it off, will do this next weekend or something.
Pulled the elbow off and i can see oil in there:crap:
Tony Walker
15-01-2012, 19:44
And just to add to it the other half's Clio won't start and I can't find the fault!
If its not imobiliser related its probably crankshaft sensor wiggly the wires should start. What engines in it? year? imobiliser light going out with ignition on and staying off while cranking?
If its not imobiliser related its probably crankshaft sensor wiggly the wires should start. What engines in it? year? imobiliser light going out with ignition on and staying off while cranking?
Its a 2000 1.4s, got the old 8v in it, e7j i think?
Not 100% on the imobiliser light but there is no spark and the plugs are dry so no fuel either, i replaced the crankshaft sensor and the bit of loom, also did the coil pack at the same time.
This seemed to fix it, but 2 weeks later its returned!
Tony Walker
15-01-2012, 19:59
sometimes the wire colours on the tdc sensor are wrong, try swapping them, if you have no spark, no fuel then it does sound like tdc sensor.
Ok, but it has been running fine with the new tdc sensor for a couple of weeks?
Tony Walker
15-01-2012, 21:32
even new ones have issues sometimes, there quite tempremental, its easy enough to wiggle the wires.
I did try that just incase, I'm thinking possibly a broken wire somewhere, just need to find it, possibly a power to the ecu?
Renault 5 GT Turbo
16-01-2012, 18:17
Wish it was mate! Smoke cleared while it was idleing, got some fuel bout a mile drive, seemed ok, stopped off at home and had a small amount of smoke this i thought might be oil in exhaust.
Took it out down the main road gave it some boot, full 13psi, as soon as i had full boost backed off, and plumes of smoke behind! Tried again same thing.
Got back home and let it idle and lots of oil smoke from exhaust.
Ill pull the elbow off when i get chance, but i bet its covered in oil. :crap:
Can too much oil pressure be an issue? Also what can cause it? I only have the standard oil pressure guage but recently it seems to be higher than usual, 5.5 bar at 3k warm:confused:
I would recommend a compression test. Possible piston ring issue on one cylinder.
I would recommend a compression test. Possible piston ring issue on one cylinder.
I will check the compression just as a matter of course but the manifold didn't look oiley.
Renault 5 GT Turbo
16-01-2012, 21:09
I will check the compression just as a matter of course but the manifold didn't look oiley.
Ah ok, it was just when you mentioned the recent rise in oil pressure and smoke it lead me to think perhaps a piston ring is not quite doing its job and therefore the oil pressure is getting pressurised over and above what it should be. Pumping out of the dip stick also points to this.
Hi mate, had a very similar issue see HERE (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=21775&highlight=oil+pressure)
THIS (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showpost.php?p=225817&postcount=6) was my problem!
Tony Walker
17-01-2012, 00:04
perhaps overfull with oil? dipstick may be wrong length or something daft, find the correct oil amount and measure what u put in, regardless of disptick level.
Hi mate, had a very similar issue see HERE (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=21775&highlight=oil+pressure)
THIS (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showpost.php?p=225817&postcount=6) was my problem!
A stuck pressure relief valve did cross my mind, will check the compression, check the oil return for obstructions, double check the breather system, then will drain the new oil I just put in, check the amount and then pull the sump and check the relief valve.
I presume the relief valve is part of the pump?
Better get on and order a sump gasket!
Right stuck the compression tester on it earlier:
135psi on 1-3 and 140psi on 4
So i pulled the sump off and took the oil pump out, the relief valve seems to move freely:crap:.
Was hoping this was this was the problem!
Haven't started it yet as i need to get a couple of new juiblee clips tomorrow, then will try again!
chezzer85
21-01-2012, 19:58
I'd put money on piston rings, i had 140psi on all 4,
Was chucking oil out the dip stick and smoking like crazy.
Turned out the bloke i bought it off, didn't bother to put the scraper rings in when he rebuilt the engine. mupet, cost me more that i paid for the car.
Finished putting it back together this morning.......
Still got smoke, oil drain was clear, compression was good, correct amount of oil, relief valve was moving freely, bummer!
It's strange how it even smokes on idle.
Think I'm gonna find someone to rebuild the bottom end for me, get the head checked and freshened up.
Tony Walker
22-01-2012, 20:54
You can run the engine without the turbo in place(will be very loud) bridge your coolant pipes together and jubilee your oil feed in to your oil return, make sure no wires are by the manifold and start it up. Atleast this way you will see if its oil from the engine or oil from the turbo. saves you rebuilding an engine that may not need it.
Good shout. Are you 100% sure it's not a breather issue?
Yea the breather system has been simplified and is all clear, yea i think next weekends task will be remove the turbo and run without, i might even use an old exhaust housing and make up a blanking plate so i dont irritate all the neighbours!!
Had the turbo off again yesterday, and made a blanking plate for an old t25 exhaust housing i have, fitted that, joined the oil feed to the drain and joined the two water pipes.
No more oil smoke, just a bit of condensation where it hasnt really been driven for 4 months!
I know the standard oil pressure guage isnt the most reliable, but when i have any turbo fitted, the oil pressure guage is always 5.5 bar ish, does drop to 5 when its warm, but with no turbo fitted, its 4.5/5 when cold and drops to 1.5/1 at idle when warm.
The question is why would i have excessive oil pressure when the turbo is fitted? :confused::confused:
Tony Walker
29-01-2012, 21:31
because the turbo bearings provide resistance to the flow of oil. striaght in to the return is no resistance so no increase in pressure.
because the turbo bearings provide resistance to the flow of oil. striaght in to the return is no resistance so no increase in pressure.
That would make sense, but why are the turbos making the pressure so high all of a sudden and causing oil to be pushed passed the seals?
Tony Walker
29-01-2012, 21:49
5.5/5bar at idle or 4000ish rpm?
id say get a proper gauge on it to really know, perhaps the turbo needs a restrictor of some sort? i dont think too much oil pressure is your problem, maybe the high pressures are an indication of a blockage perhaps in your one way valve? or is your oil feed kinked in any way???
Yea I'm gonna get a gauge, no 5/5.5 at idle! No the oil feed is straight, one way valve? Is that on the other end of the oil feed pipe?
Tony Walker
30-01-2012, 07:57
it can start off high but after a few mins you should be around the 1-2bar at idle, either your gauge is screwed or you have issues with your feed and or turbo. theres a little one way valve where the oil feed pipe connects to the pressure sensor, check thats not blocked/stuck
Put the turbo back on today with the one way valve removed from the oil feed just incase that was causing a problem.....
Nope:cry:
Only thing im left with now is the turbo causing the problem!
ive got a similiar problem here, when engine is hot it lets out lots of smoke, thought it was turbo so replaced with new full t25 and its still the same, think rings are shot but im going to test later, hopefully youll get to the bottom of it
ive got a similiar problem here, when engine is hot it lets out lots of smoke, thought it was turbo so replaced with new full t25 and its still the same, think rings are shot but im going to test later, hopefully youll get to the bottom of it
Hopefully I will, but I dont know which way to go next, either yet another turbo or rebuild the bottom end, both expensive options!
Im reluctant to do the rebuild as the manifold is dry and when fitting a turbo blank its fine! But 3 turbos, one rebuilt, I can't be that unlucky can i?!
So after not doing anything with it for a few months after not getting anywhere with the smoking problem, i arranged to get mark to have a look, but after seeing a thread on here with someone else having the same problem i thought i'd have one last attempt.
It was all down to the breathers! Annoying but fortunatly cheap and simple to fix! I did remove them when i first looked at it and blew through them and thought they were free enough, obviously not!
So after sorting that little problem i thought i'd better get it ready for an mot,
-fitted new front discs and pads
-welded a patch on the front pannel/inner wing
-checked over all suspension
Fitted the front bumper/ grill and o/s wing i picked up from bigfoot the other month, so its all one colour now! It'll do untill i can sort out a respray.
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7856/imag0179bt.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-04-10
Also rasied the back up one notch, not a lot higher but looks a bit better i reckon
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6651/imag0178gd.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-04-10
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/425/imag0177gy.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-04-10
Booked in for fri at 10, if it passes which i can't see why it won't i'll be straight down the post office:D:D:D:D
Tony Walker
10-04-2012, 19:58
Looking good :D:agree:
Ride height looking much better :agree:
Really great help on this thread from club members in trying to sort this problem out. :)
Yea the help on this forum is excellent!:agree:
It doesn't look half bad in photos, but you wouldn't want to get closer than 15ft! I need to start getting some prices together to get the bodywork sorted, anyone got any recommendations?
Full 12 months mot, 6 months tax and a full tank of momentum! This weekend will be good!
Downside is I'm really gonna have to get the sills sorted this year starting to look far to crusty, good job my mot tester is understanding!;)
Adey aka Ewok
13-04-2012, 13:32
nice one, theres a few locally that need saving and putting back on the road. trying to get the owners to give them up is another story though
congrats :agree:
I never see any more round this neck of the woods, only one I have seen is the white stickered up one from Cheltenham that was on ebay not so long back.
You not got another one yet adey?
Went for a drive around the countryside yesterday, and all seems well (touch wood!) Am very tempted to put my bleed valve in and up the boost a few more psi, fueling is still a bit rich at 13psi so have a bit of room for change;)
Next ill have to see about fitting my forge front mount intercooler:wasntme:
Ive also just gven my old turbines a quick blast of paint and fitted some tyres so i might fit them next weekend, i know turbines have been done so many times before but they look so right!
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6804/imag0188em.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-04-22
Finally had a couple of dry hours where i'm not at work/hanging so fitted the ol turbines:
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8380/imag0215l.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-05-05
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4448/imag0214g.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-05-05
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3639/imag0213j.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-05-05
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2439/imag0212o.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-05-05
I know its been done time and time again but i still think its a good look!
Hopefully getting a tax refund so will be visiting a few bodyshops for quotes on getting inner/outer sills/jacking points/other little bits of rust sorted and a blow over:agree::agree:
She looks nice mate :agree:
Looks well on the turbines mate:)
really do like :cool:
great job dude:cooter:
Cheers guys:D
Gonna book a ND ticket soon so will be there to show off how bad it actually is close up!:crap:
Had a set of pro race 1.2's sat in my garage so thought it pop them on to see what they would look like, took a few photos this afternoon with the missus' phone camera!
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1156/dsc0058ro.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-07-08
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9498/dsc0057lz.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-07-08
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8333/dsc0056wd.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-07-08
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3412/dsc0055nw.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-07-08
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8076/dsc0054qj.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-07-08
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9836/dsc0053na.jpg
By fishey798 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fishey798) at 2012-07-08
Not sure if i like them more than the turbines, black on black is maybee a bit too dark?
On another note, where it was raining it makes the paintwork look much better:laugh:
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